2,4 Dinitrophenol (DNP) As Medicine

[olive]

Could you break that down into meals? Like do you have 500ml cranberry juice all at once with some figs?

I don’t really have a set schedule but I’ll try.

7:00AM - wake up, take 250mg calcium d glucurate, turn on kettle, skip rope while I wait for it to boil, brew 1L of coffee with olive leaf extract in French press
7:10AM - 1 cup cranberry juice + bowl of frozen blueberries covered in glycine and coconut water, eat outside, allow sun to reach retina, stretch in the sun for 5-10 minutes
7:20AM - drink 2 cups coffee with glycine and figs, hop in cold only shower
8:30AM - brew pot of green tea + pau d’arco, mix with coconut water to bring to room temp, add 2tsp honey + 1g taurine + 1g l-threonine + ceylon cinnamon
10AM - eat papaya (usually pineapple but expensive here right now)
11AM - 1 cup cranberry juice
12:00PM - 3kg baked sweet potato, tomato based soup with spinach, herbs, capers, greens and a protein (today was beans, usually oysters) + 2cups coffee with glycine mixed with coconut water
Fast for 5 hours
5:30PM - protein (cooked in coconut oil if necessary) + greens (today was kangaroo mince and green beans) + bromelain supplement
8:00PM - dark chocolate if I can fit in more dietary fats
8:30PM - go for a 20min walk if I haven’t already for the day
9:00PM - shower and get ready for bed, read a book/answer health questions online

Edit: I take crystallised ginger after each meal also - in order to speed up gastric emptying

 

[Jing]

I don’t really have a set schedule but I’ll try.

7:00AM - wake up, take 250mg calcium d glucurate, turn on kettle, skip rope while I wait for it to boil, brew 1L of coffee with olive leaf extract in French press
7:10AM - 1 cup cranberry juice + bowl of frozen blueberries covered in glycine and coconut water, eat outside, allow sun to reach retina, stretch in the sun for 5-10 minutes
7:20AM - drink 2 cups coffee with glycine and figs, hop in cold only shower
8:30AM - brew pot of green tea + pau d’arco, mix with coconut water to bring to room temp, add 2tsp honey + 1g taurine + 1g l-threonine + ceylon cinnamon
10AM - eat papaya (usually pineapple but expensive here right now)
11AM - 1 cup cranberry juice
12:00PM - 3kg baked sweet potato, tomato based soup with spinach, herbs, capers, greens and a protein (today was beans, usually oysters) + 2cups coffee with glycine mixed with coconut water
Fast for 5 hours
5:30PM - protein (cooked in coconut oil if necessary) + greens (today was kangaroo mince and green beans) + bromelain supplement
8:00PM - dark chocolate if I can fit in more dietary fats
8:30PM - go for a 20min walk if I haven’t already for the day
9:00PM - shower and get ready for bed, read a book/answer health questions online

Edit: I take crystallised ginger after each meal also - in order to speed up gastric emptying

Sounds good, does crystallised ginger help with your digestion? Digestion is something I just can't seem to improve.

 

[olive]

Sounds good, does crystallised ginger help with your digestion? Digestion is something I just can't seem to improve.

Crystallised is just to satisfy my sweet tooth. The ginger is what’s doing the hard work. You could just nibble on raw ginger. It’s been proven in studies to improve gastric emptying. Bromelain and ceylon cinnamon are also helpful for digestion.

 

[Broken man]

3 kg of potatoes? Man, you are beast.

I don’t really have a set schedule but I’ll try.

7:00AM - wake up, take 250mg calcium d glucurate, turn on kettle, skip rope while I wait for it to boil, brew 1L of coffee with olive leaf extract in French press
7:10AM - 1 cup cranberry juice + bowl of frozen blueberries covered in glycine and coconut water, eat outside, allow sun to reach retina, stretch in the sun for 5-10 minutes
7:20AM - drink 2 cups coffee with glycine and figs, hop in cold only shower
8:30AM - brew pot of green tea + pau d’arco, mix with coconut water to bring to room temp, add 2tsp honey + 1g taurine + 1g l-threonine + ceylon cinnamon
10AM - eat papaya (usually pineapple but expensive here right now)
11AM - 1 cup cranberry juice
12:00PM - 3kg baked sweet potato, tomato based soup with spinach, herbs, capers, greens and a protein (today was beans, usually oysters) + 2cups coffee with glycine mixed with coconut water
Fast for 5 hours
5:30PM - protein (cooked in coconut oil if necessary) + greens (today was kangaroo mince and green beans) + bromelain supplement
8:00PM - dark chocolate if I can fit in more dietary fats
8:30PM - go for a 20min walk if I haven’t already for the day
9:00PM - shower and get ready for bed, read a book/answer health questions online

Edit: I take crystallised ginger after each meal also - in order to speed up gastric emptying

 

[aquaman]

The diet you were on would have been missing many important micronutrients. I suggest you track via cronometer. It’s free and easy to use.
Here’s a quote from a bodybuilding coach who I read occasionally; I don’t know where he got the 17mg potassium/gram of carb from or if it’s accurate - but I can say that I feel and can see a world of difference between a low potassium vs high potassium diet. Muscle bellies look fuller, veins pop through my skin, I feel stronger, etc.

“Potassium is required for storing glycogen and therefore aid in the utilization of all the ingested carbohydrates hence facilitating proper repair/growth. 17 mg potassium per every gram of carbohydrate ingested in order to hold that as glycogen. So, a 500 g carbohydrate diet would equate to 8500 mg of required potassium intake.”

This is very interesting - since you mentioned potassium, I have realised that i'm naturally drawn to high potassium foods like Sweet potato, potato, watermelon, honeydew. It's good to have a target now of mg of potassium per day.

 

[Adrienlcrx]

What is the effect of turmeric in your experience
@olive ?

 

[olive]

What is the effect of turmeric in your experience
@olive ?

Nothing noticeable. I think Travis has touched on the fact that it’s oral bioavailability is very low, which is probably why.

 

[schultz]

This is dangerous territory... People have died from this...

The study is recommending doses between 2-22mg. Standard dose used by bodybuilders is 200mg. The lowest ever recordered lethal human dose was 4.3mg/kg or ~340mg for a man. The dose makes the poison.

People abused this in the past. When it comes to fat loss people lose their mind. People in the past also died taking aspirin, which actually has the same effect as DNP at large doses. If you search aspirin in Pubmed and sort by date and go to the earliest papers on aspirin you can find some interesting ones talking about people overdosing on it, like taking 500 pills and stuff. Aspirin at high doses raises body temperature massively and you can get hyperthermia, just like DNP.

DNP is a fascinating drug and I love reading about it. It could be very useful if used properly.

This study gave mice very low dose DNP, low enough to not change their body temperature, and it consistently increased lifespan similar to caloric restriction. There was an average increase in lifespan of 7%, which is nothing too crazy, but considering the only difference was low dose DNP that's not bad at all.
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To get a better idea of the dose used in the above paper, a study citing the study I posted above says this...

"A previous long term mouse DNP study used a 1 mg/liter dose and reported increased longevity and reduced body weight, presumably at ambient temperatures. We found that an 800-fold larger dose caused mild weight reduction over 1–2 weeks at thermoneutrality, whereas lower doses did not. The 800 mg/liter mouse dose is, after scaling, comparable with the human dose (the clinical dose, 1.2– 4.3 mg/kg/day (37), scales to 15–54 mg/kg/day in mice). This dose is also consistent with the reported narrow therapeutic index; in young mice, 25% mortality was observed with DNP at 325 mg/kg/day in the diet for 1 week. Single doses of DNP are more toxic (LD of 35 to 72 mg/kg), probably due to higher peak exposures. Compared with gavage or parenteral dosing, dosing in drinking water or food is expected to produce lower peak concentrations and more even coverage over the day. A DNP prodrug may also achieve some of its improved therapeutic index by reducing the peak concentration of the active species."

The prodrug they are talking about is DNP-methyl ether. I don't know anything about it, but here is a paper talking about DNP and the DNP methyl ether.

Reversal of hypertriglyceridemia, fatty liver disease, and insulin resistance by a liver-targeted mitochondrial uncoupler. - PubMed - NCBI

DNP appears to reverse fatty liver and type II diabetes.

 

[Jpkoepse]

Just offering some anecdotal experience... I've used DNP before at 200mg and 400mg.. strong stuff. Very cool supplement. As previous people have mentioned, the dose makes the poison. If used responsibly, I can absolutely see it used safely. I used it to diet for BB show so I was already in a calorie deficit. I immediately got very weak, lethargic and sweated my a** off due to the huge deficit it put me in. I couldn't handle it so I backed off. I think it would be better off used in an "offseason" leaning out context for me versus the end of a competition prep where you are really trying to shed the last few pounds as it really slowed me down to where I couldn't train.

 

[schultz]

Just offering some anecdotal experience... I've used DNP before at 200mg and 400mg.. strong stuff. Very cool supplement. As previous people have mentioned, the dose makes the poison. If used responsibly, I can absolutely see it used safely. I used it to diet for BB show so I was already in a calorie deficit. I immediately got very weak, lethargic and sweated my a** off due to the huge deficit it put me in. I couldn't handle it so I backed off. I think it would be better off used in an "offseason" leaning out context for me versus the end of a competition prep where you are really trying to shed the last few pounds as it really slowed me down to where I couldn't train.

What makes it both interesting and dangerous at the same time is that there appears to be no limit to the effect if the dose is increased continuously. It keeps working with no negative feedback loop or adjustment by the body. The danger is, if you increase it enough you just die of hyperthermia. I could easily see people who want to get lean very quickly, like for some wedding or something, taking 'extra' to get 'better' results. I think it should be studied more as a long term weight loss drug (compared to how it is typically used by people, basically to rapidly lose fat). 25mg or 50mg daily over 2 years would be an interesting trial. Even if the low dose just prevented fat gain, it would still be a useful dose.

I've heard of people taking 1g of the stuff per day.

 

[SOMO]

There are case reports of people dying from small doses of DNP (200mg).

There’s also reports of permanent hearing loss with standard doses.

 

[milkboi]

There are case reports of people dying from small doses of DNP (200mg).

There’s also reports of permanent hearing loss with standard doses.

Do you know which MOA is responsible for that?

 

[SOMO]

Do you know which MOA is responsible for that?

This was oral and both studies were from the 1930s so it likely wasn’t an issue of contamination/excipients/other poor lifestyle habits.

I didn’t think to save the studies but those 2 cases were enough to scare me off DNP.

Basically unless someone is actually OBESE, not just 20 pounds overweight, DNP is too risky imo.

I think calorie restriction and exercise are highly underrated and they work in 99% of cases for losing weight. Many people simply consume too much food and don’t exercise enough and that is why they carry extra weight.

 

[Dr. B]

I count calories and, more importantly, micronutrients religiously. I have done for the last two years. I use cronometer and eat a very micronutrient dense diet, ensuring to hit the following targets each day, on top of the standard pre-filled RDA’s:
400ug vitamin K
20mg vitamin E
1500mg calcium
750mg magnesium
1500mg phosphorous
12000mg potassium (very important on a high carb diet)
3000mg sodium
4mg copper
75g fibre
40g glycine

I don’t use DNP. I find it’s quite easy to get lean just by limiting fats and progressively lowering carbs until at the desired body fat. I do drink a lot of coffee though, which has similar mechanism of action - uncoupling.

how do you get in that calcium, that much glycine, vitamin K and vitamin E. do you supplement something? do you avoid milk and all dairy?
whats your height and weight at, and how lean are you around 10% bodyfat?

 

[SOMO]

Do not use DNP. It can cause extreme vision changes.
Source: me

Remember DNP blocks ATP production and most people are already not producing enough ATP.

If you're using DNP I'm assuming it's for weight loss. Please understand that there are much safer ways to lose weight. Stop being lazy and get off your **** and exercise if you want to lose weight. If you want to lose weight rapidly, try short term fasts.

 

[GorillaHead]

DNP seems to mainly be dangerous in the doses many bodybuilders are using. Like it should be capped at 150mg yet people are doing way higher dosages.

The two dangers i believe lie in oxygen and heat management.


I am curious about why our body doesnt uncouple naturally more often?

 

[Dr. B]

Do not use DNP. It can cause extreme vision changes.
Source: me

Remember DNP blocks ATP production and most people are already not producing enough ATP.

If you're using DNP I'm assuming it's for weight loss. Please understand that there are much safer ways to lose weight. Stop being lazy and get off your **** and exercise if you want to lose weight. If you want to lose weight rapidly, try short term fasts.

why/how does it block ATP production.

DNP seems to mainly be dangerous in the doses many bodybuilders are using. Like it should be capped at 150mg yet people are doing way higher dosages.

The two dangers i believe lie in oxygen and heat management.


I am curious about why our body doesnt uncouple naturally more often?

too hard to sustain the high metabolism in a natural environment? youd need lots of calories constantly?

 

[Whichway?]

I am curious about why our body doesnt uncouple naturally more often?

The handling of electrons in the electron transport chain in your mitochondria, and the energy that is extracted from them to pump H+ ions across a membrane is very tightly regulated. We do have uncoupling proteins which disrupt the proton (H+) gradient, similar to what DNP does, but I don’t know the answer to why we don’t uncouple more often?

 

[GorillaHead]

ideally i want to increase uncoupling naturally to a point where i am not that cold often. Dnp is really a short term solution

 

[Dr. B]

ideally i want to increase uncoupling naturally to a point where i am not that cold often. Dnp is really a short term solution

Peat said using megadoses of thyroid also increases uncoupling and he said it was safer than I think DNP. I think it was haidut, Danny and him discussing DNP and uncoupling and Peat said thyroid can do it too if you take a lot of it.
But i'm not sure whether being high metabolic naturally is enough to uncouple. Maybe if you're extremely high metabolism like 99.9 degrees daily you'll also be uncoupling?
is DNP legal to use as a supplement. where are people getting it.