2,4 Dinitrophenol (DNP) As Medicine

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olive

olive

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how do you get 12g of potassium a day? do u supplement? i want to do this as i think its critical for me trying higher carb diet, coz i seem to just be getting fat from it.
Sweet potatoes are consistently my largest contributor. Tomato paste, spinach and fruits make up the majority of the rest.

It’s also important to have adequate b1 for carbohydrate metabolism, luckily sweet potato have you covered for that too.

Edit: perhaps the reason why kitavan people strive on the high carb diet but many others fail is because they are eating a very micronutrient dense diet of fruit and tubers that contain the necessary vitamins to allow the body to efficiently use the carbohydrates within. Just look at the man in the image below. Built from a diet of fruit, tubers, fish and veggies. High carb, med protein, low fat. Not unlike my own diet in many ways.
 

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CLASH

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I count calories and, more importantly, micronutrients religiously. I have done for the last two years. I use cronometer and eat a very micronutrient dense diet, ensuring to hit the following targets each day, on top of the standard pre-filled RDA’s:
400ug vitamin K
20mg vitamin E
1500mg calcium
750mg magnesium
1500mg phosphorous
12000mg potassium (very important on a high carb diet)
3000mg sodium
4mg copper
75g fibre
40g glycine

I don’t use DNP. I find it’s quite easy to get lean just by limiting fats and progressively lowering carbs until at the desired body fat. I do drink a lot of coffee though, which has similar mechanism of action - uncoupling.

Olive, hows your libido, strength and temp on this diet? I’m assuming your hitting your glycine with a pure glycine supplement? Potassium is met with the sweet potatoes?

EDIT: Your one of the few people making lower carb work so i’m interested in understanding whAt your doing.
 
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olive

olive

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Olive, hows your libido, strength and temp on this diet? I’m assuming your hitting your glycine with a pure glycine supplement? Potassium is met with the sweet potatoes?

EDIT: Your one of the few people making lower carb work so i’m interested in understanding whAt your doing.
Libido is more than adequate. Strength is kind of a loaded question, it’s decent but there’s many people stronger than me pound for pound. Temp I’ve never measured but I’m consistently warm, my girlfriend refers to me as her heater.
I use pure glycine powder, it tastes sweet like sugar so I use it as a sugar replacement in tea/coffee/baking. Some days I sprinkle it over my sweet potatoes/veggies when I’m struggling to eat enough, I have a sweet tooth.
 

Ron J

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Olive, hows your libido, strength and temp on this diet? I’m assuming your hitting your glycine with a pure glycine supplement? Potassium is met with the sweet potatoes?

EDIT: Your one of the few people making lower carb work so i’m interested in understanding whAt your doing.
He wrote this several comments back "4500kcal. Very high carb, 70-110g protein, low fat (under 25g/day)."
So over 900 grams of carbs and it seems like a decent amount from starch. I'm wondering if the starch isn't as fattening due to the low fat or that my fat gain was due to table sugar's lack of nutrients(I was on no fat skim milk + some OJ and table sugar, sub 1g PUFA and no starch).
 
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olive

olive

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He wrote this several comments back "4500kcal. Very high carb, 70-110g protein, low fat (under 25g/day)."
So over 900 grams of carbs and it seems like a decent amount from starch. I'm wondering if the starch isn't as fattening due to the low fat or that my fat gain was due to table sugar's lack of nutrients(I was on no fat skim milk + some OJ and table sugar, sub 1g PUFA and no starch).
The diet you were on would have been missing many important micronutrients. I suggest you track via cronometer. It’s free and easy to use.
Here’s a quote from a bodybuilding coach who I read occasionally; I don’t know where he got the 17mg potassium/gram of carb from or if it’s accurate - but I can say that I feel and can see a world of difference between a low potassium vs high potassium diet. Muscle bellies look fuller, veins pop through my skin, I feel stronger, etc.

“Potassium is required for storing glycogen and therefore aid in the utilization of all the ingested carbohydrates hence facilitating proper repair/growth. 17 mg potassium per every gram of carbohydrate ingested in order to hold that as glycogen. So, a 500 g carbohydrate diet would equate to 8500 mg of required potassium intake.”
 

CLASH

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@Ron J
Sweet potatoes never made me fat. I currently eat around 300-400g of carbs myself on about a 3500-4000 kcal diet, they are all from fruit and juice. I eat more fat than @olive but my diet is the same as his. The only difference is i eat more fat and I dont eat sweat potatoes. Besides that i eat beef and low pufa/ low mercury seafood as my protein and fruit as my carbs. I dont eat sweet potatoes because i had a gut dysbiosis and they caused me some bad joint pain, I have recently cleared my gut and have been reeintroducing foods so I may try to add in some sweet potato or yam. Currently I have been adding in fruits. I dont think I’ll ever drop my fat that low, but I may try to see what happens if I go from 40% fat to 35% fat or maybe 30% fat, just as an experiement.
 

lampofred

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This is dangerous territory... People have died from this...
 
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olive

olive

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This is dangerous territory... People have died from this...
The study is recommending doses between 2-22mg. Standard dose used by bodybuilders is 200mg. The lowest ever recordered lethal human dose was 4.3mg/kg or ~340mg for a man. The dose makes the poison.
 

Ron J

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The diet you were on would have been missing many important micronutrients. I suggest you track via cronometer. It’s free and easy to use.
Here’s a quote from a bodybuilding coach who I read occasionally; I don’t know where he got the 17mg potassium/gram of carb from or if it’s accurate - but I can say that I feel and can see a world of difference between a low potassium vs high potassium diet. Muscle bellies look fuller, veins pop through my skin, I feel stronger, etc.

“Potassium is required for storing glycogen and therefore aid in the utilization of all the ingested carbohydrates hence facilitating proper repair/growth. 17 mg potassium per every gram of carbohydrate ingested in order to hold that as glycogen. So, a 500 g carbohydrate diet would equate to 8500 mg of required potassium intake.”
Thanks for the advice. I was consuming potassium bicarbonate while on that diet along several b vitamins, but it may have not been enough, or possibly just one imbalance is enough to mess up everything when a significant part of your calories are empty. Would you still be able to maintain your body fat with 4500 calories if you increased fat and decreased carb? Or would that result in weight gain?
About the DNP: what do you think about the peripheral neuropathy stated here?
@CLASH I plan to introduce regular potatoes so I don't ingest too much vitamin A. Most of my vitamin A comes from animal sources like liver/eggs.
 
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Inorganic potassium is dangerous.

So is DNP.

You are living dangerously, @Ron J and I wouldn’t advise others to try either one.

The only inorganic potassium I take is some NoSalt, and just a pinch, if I have too much salt and get finger or toe cramps. Rare these days, but it is the only thing that works. Just a pinch, maybe 1/8 teaspoon if that much.
 

Ron J

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Inorganic potassium is dangerous.

So is DNP.

You are living dangerously, @Ron J and I wouldn’t advise others to try either one.

The only inorganic potassium I take is some NoSalt, and just a pinch, if I have too much salt and get finger or toe cramps. Rare these days, but it is the only thing that works. Just a pinch, maybe 1/8 teaspoon if that much.
It was likely not a good idea, but that was only when I was consuming a considerable amount of table sugar.
 
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olive

olive

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Thanks for the advice. I was consuming potassium bicarbonate while on that diet along several b vitamins, but it may have not been enough, or possibly just one imbalance is enough to mess up everything when a significant part of your calories are empty. Would you still be able to maintain your body fat with 4500 calories if you increased fat and decreased carb? Or would that result in weight gain?
About the DNP: what do you think about the peripheral neuropathy stated here?
@CLASH I plan to introduce regular potatoes so I don't ingest too much vitamin A. Most of my vitamin A comes from animal sources like liver/eggs.
I don’t think b supps work very well, I remember one study showed it took months of mega dosing b2 to have effect. Better to get from foods in my opinion. Thankfully all the healthy stuff is loaded with b vits.
Re: would I be able to mantain low body fat on lower carbs, higher fat - I’m not sure, it’s a good question. Perhaps one day I should experiment for the greater good but honestly I try to limit fats as much as possible because I really don’t think they are good for your health. SFA included. In a perfect world, if I could I’d consume solely stearic acid and a small amount of DHA.
Assuming good thyroid health, the body is able to regulate vitamin A from plants quite well. @Travis has more detailed info if you care to search for it. Regular potatoes are a nightshade and contain a considerable amount of solanine, which quickly adds up if you wish to make it a staple on a high carb diet.
 

ATP

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The researchers seem to suggest a HED of 2-22mg. The lower the dose the more neuroprotective.

Increases BDNF.
Induces autophagy.
Reduces ROS.
Lowers NADH.
Increases ATP pool via uncoupling.
Prevents fat accumulation on a high fat diet.
Lowers fasting glucose.
Lowers triglycerides.
Increases insulin sensitivity.

Has a wide range of potential theraupitic use.
How does uncoupling increase ATP?
 
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olive

olive

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How does uncoupling increase ATP?
I believe by increasing production of mitochondria. But perhaps someone more knowledgeable in this field will chime in with a more detailed answer.
 

ATP

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I believe by increasing production of mitochondria. But perhaps someone more knowledgeable in this field will chime in with a more detailed answer.
Sure, by increasing the synthesis of mitochondria that should yield more ATP but by definition uncoupling proteins uncouple the flow of protons into the matrix from ATP synthase.
 

Jing

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I think I’ve posted a thorough breakdown of my diet on here before but essentially I snack on fruits upon waking until mid day. Then sweet potato + veggies + lean protein for lunch. Fast for 4-6 hours. Eat protein + fats + greens for dinner. Then maybe some dark chocolate before bed. 4500kcal. Very high carb, 70-110g protein, low fat (under 25g/day).
How do you manage to reach 4500 ? You don't seem to be eating anything with high calories you must be eating a ton of food lol.
 

DaveFoster

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I count calories and, more importantly, micronutrients religiously. I have done for the last two years. I use cronometer and eat a very micronutrient dense diet, ensuring to hit the following targets each day, on top of the standard pre-filled RDA’s:
400ug vitamin K
20mg vitamin E
1500mg calcium
750mg magnesium
1500mg phosphorous
12000mg potassium (very important on a high carb diet)
3000mg sodium
4mg copper
75g fibre
40g glycine

I don’t use DNP. I find it’s quite easy to get lean just by limiting fats and progressively lowering carbs until at the desired body fat. I do drink a lot of coffee though, which has similar mechanism of action - uncoupling.
Thank you. That amount of fiber would keep you satiated even at a low body fat percentage. The caffeine acts mostly as appetite suppressant, though you'd get an extra 150 kcal or so for the day if you took 200 mg every couple of hours.

I think I’ve posted a thorough breakdown of my diet on here before but essentially I snack on fruits upon waking until mid day. Then sweet potato + veggies + lean protein for lunch. Fast for 4-6 hours. Eat protein + fats + greens for dinner. Then maybe some dark chocolate before bed. 4500kcal. Very high carb, 70-110g protein, low fat (under 25g/day).
You maintain on 4500 kcal per day? You must be tall.

I've been wondering lately if one could combine honey or white sugar with plain potatoes and mimic the metabolic effect of the sweet potato. You'd actually get more magnesium from the plain potato but not if you replace one-quarter of the potato with white sugar. Sweet potatoes also have absurdly high levels of vitamin A; 1,000 calories worth of them would bring 200k IU of beta carotene. They're also expensive; presently they're around three times the cost of Russet potatoes.

I know you dislike milk, but did it make you gain weight?
 
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olive

olive

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How do you manage to reach 4500 ? You don't seem to be eating anything with high calories you must be eating a ton of food lol.
Juice, dried fruits and lots of tubers. Some days I eat up to 4kg of sweet potato.
It’s a lot of food. Some days I struggle to eat enough but I drudge through and feel better for it.
Here’s today’s cronometer reading.
 

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olive

olive

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Thank you. That amount of fiber would keep you satiated even at a low body fat percentage. The caffeine acts mostly as appetite suppressant, though you'd get an extra 150 kcal or so for the day if you took 200 mg every couple of hours.

You maintain on 4500 kcal per day? You must be tall.

I've been wondering lately if one could combine honey or white sugar with plain potatoes and mimic the metabolic effect of the sweet potato. You'd actually get more magnesium from the plain potato but not if you replace one-quarter of the potato with white sugar. Sweet potatoes also have absurdly high levels of vitamin A; 1,000 calories worth of them would bring 200k IU of beta carotene. They're also expensive; presently they're around three times the cost of Russet potatoes.

I know you dislike milk, but did it make you gain weight?
I’m short, 5’7 or so. 75kg. I’m active, eat well and adhere to the randle cycle.
Like I said above sweet potato is a much better option than the regular potato. And although the sweet potato is more expensive it’s still a relatively cheap calorie source all things considered.
And like I said above beta-carotene is not an issue with a healthy thyroid - it’s been explained by @Travis in detail previously.

Milk did make me gain weight but only because I was trying to. For that purpose I don’t think anything else competes. It’s full of powerful growth factors. I had to stop milk and the subsequent weight gain because I got so large that I began to develop sleep apnea. And the acne wasn’t very nice to look at either. I’m 5kg lighter but look and feel a lot better.
 

Jing

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Juice, dried fruits and lots of tubers. Some days I eat up to 4kg of sweet potato.
It’s a lot of food. Some days I struggle to eat enough but I drudge through and feel better for it.
Here’s today’s cronometer reading.
Could you break that down into meals? Like do you have 500ml cranberry juice all at once with some figs?
 

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