18 Month Old Vegan Baby Dies Of Malnutrition

[MatheusPN]

It isn't a joke. It's reality. Vegans, the long term ones are dropping out of the vegan religion as they realize their health is failing. Slowly but surely it happens to all hardcore vegans. Even one's that have the money and dedication to do it right. They have a few great years of flying high with tons of energy which slumps down more and more until they are half dead. Some last months, some last years, all fall eventually because humans are not meant to live on plant matter alone.

My personal opinion is because a vegan diet is very heavy on copper content and adequate enough in iron(which more copper helps to absorb the nonheme iron better than usual) and jokingly low in zinc bioavailability. This copper constantly stimulates the CNS which sustains energy. Vegan diet is tons of sugar and carbs + copper with virtually zero antagonism of sympathetic nervous system by zinc and lack of choline(for acetylcholine aka the parasympathetic nervous system). And you don't even need much copper (though vegan diet provides a lot regardless) because without zinc you have virtually nothing stopping conversion of dopamine to noradrenaline and adrenaline. You can be like this for years but constant SNS activity increases wear and tear on all tissues and organs. The high manganese content of vegan diets can act similarly to zinc and work for awhile but what happens is you will not be able to repair damage faster than it is being made.

And because any vegan that has a few brain cells takes B12, they can make adrenaline easily as well. I'd argue many vegans are literally being sustained by constant B12 supplementation as well. Anyone is welcome to try say 5mg of methylB12 sublingual. I took just 1mg methylB12 one time under the tongue right when I had to sleep months ago(stupid idea, pure curiosity). I did it correctly as suddenly after perhaps half an hour I had a surge of energy and wakefulness seemingly out of no where. I proceeded not to sleep the entire night and just ran around my house like I had caffeine injected straight into the vein.

The actual joke is veganism, you can especially see this in women who look generally youthful before starting and then age like crazy, lose tons of weight, and become anemic and constantly cold. Then they come to their senses and start eating animals again. There is no point for argument because there is no argument that could possibly be made for veganism. I legit come to these threads oftentimes just to watch the show. So much effort from the sensible omnivores (99% of the community) arguing with a handful of "Peaty" vegans.

You'll ride the vegan wave until suddenly you can't anymore and you won't understand why. Then you'll just stop being a vegan. That's how it happens to all ex-vegans. Some try harder than others to tough it out and try all these crazy expensive things to fix themselves for months and months as they get worse. Some cave in faster, but all cave in eventually. We won't hold it against you when your time finally comes, I swear lol (at least I won't). You don't even have to tell anyone, just don't end up dead for veganism.

I was vegan for at least 4,3 or 5 years, vegetarian even more
I only "discontinued" because I discovered, thanks to Haidut, that plants are sentients beings
What happened when I stopped cold turkey, consuming 2L of milk in less than 2 hours!? Nothing, noticed nothing different! Even after months
Only gained pounds and kcal consumption reduced a lot
Being vegan/ vegetarian was easy, even more, ease than peating

For people wondering about that topic, I recommend this thread: Peat's Surprising Response To My Email. A "Ray Peat Vegan" Is Possible
Or just ask members of this forum who are/ almost vegans or tried veganism

 

[damngoodcoffee]

How can a protein source be so good if it requires soaking and sprouting to be totally edible?

You probably just bite into an animal walking by.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

Some people here act like we're trying to figure out some perfect strict diet for every ******* human being.

After years of trying to figure out a diet I feel good on, I've settled on a Peaty vegan diet. I don't care about representing veganism though. I've been a vegan who felt terrible and craved animal foods, I know what it's like. Now I don't crave them and I feel better than with animal foods in my diet.

A mainstream vegan eats even more PUFA, hard to digest fiber and anti-nutrients than a mainstream omnivore, while not getting the cholesterol, saturated fat etc. from animal foods, of course it's a huge problem.

 

[Jennifer]

WTF !!! I was worried about my arms looking fragile, skin and bones. This guy is younger than me but I think I am more muscular than him and I'm a female. Crickey !! Curved shoulders ain't a good look if you are promoting veganism. There is no way, I am going to convert to veganism and look frail in my old age. I may have cut out too much red meat. How much do I need to eat? Searching for that illusive balance of not too much and just right. I'd love to believe I could thrive on a vegan diet - so much cheaper and plants are easier to cultivate than raising animals. I just don't understand why we have to choose to be strictly plant or animal eaters. I just want to eat delicious food and wheatgrass juice simply does not get the salivary glands excited.

LOL Ella. It wouldn't surprise me if he undereats since it's easy to on a standard raw vegan diet based on low calorie plants and "superfoods" like wheatgrass, spirulina, kale etc. I'm tiny but wasn't frail looking like him when I was raw likely because my version of it was based on a lot fruit and calories for my size (3000+) — I actually gained much needed weight the first time I went raw. Raw veganism has a tendency of attracting those focused on purity and spirituality, mainly attaining universal truth or "enlightenment."

I was vegan for at least 4,3 or 5 years, vegetarian even more
I only "discontinued" because I discovered, thanks to Haidut, that plants are sentients beings
What happened when I stopped cold turkey, consuming 2L of milk in less than 2 hours!? Nothing, noticed nothing different! Even after months
Only gained pounds and kcal consumption reduced a lot
Being vegan/ vegetarian was easy, even more, ease than peating

That was one of the main reasons that drew me to fruitarianism — the idea that a tree/plant isn't killed by eating its fruit, the fruit is meant to be eaten to spread its seeds. More than half my life was spent as a vegetarian and vegan combined (I'm 38) and out of all the variations of plant-based I tried, I felt my best on the fruitarian diet. My current diet is actually more ethical, but I'm glad I tried fruitarianism because it gave me a solid foundation to build upon. Unlike you, I did notice a difference, a positive one, when I reintroduced animal protein. Something about the combination of shellfish and fruit that really works for me.

 

[Ritchie]

..

 

[Ritchie]

It isn't a joke. It's reality. Vegans, the long term ones are dropping out of the vegan religion as they realize their health is failing. Slowly but surely it happens to all hardcore vegans. Even one's that have the money and dedication to do it right. They have a few great years of flying high with tons of energy which slumps down more and more until they are half dead. Some last months, some last years, all fall eventually because humans are not meant to live on plant matter alone.

My personal opinion is because a vegan diet is very heavy on copper content and adequate enough in iron(which more copper helps to absorb the nonheme iron better than usual) and jokingly low in zinc bioavailability. This copper constantly stimulates the CNS which sustains energy. Vegan diet is tons of sugar and carbs + copper with virtually zero antagonism of sympathetic nervous system by zinc and lack of choline(for acetylcholine aka the parasympathetic nervous system). And you don't even need much copper (though vegan diet provides a lot regardless) because without zinc you have virtually nothing stopping conversion of dopamine to noradrenaline and adrenaline. You can be like this for years but constant SNS activity increases wear and tear on all tissues and organs. The high manganese content of vegan diets can act similarly to zinc and work for awhile but what happens is you will not be able to repair damage faster than it is being made.

And because any vegan that has a few brain cells takes B12, they can make adrenaline easily as well. I'd argue many vegans are literally being sustained by constant B12 supplementation as well. Anyone is welcome to try say 5mg of methylB12 sublingual. I took just 1mg methylB12 one time under the tongue right when I had to sleep months ago(stupid idea, pure curiosity). I did it correctly as suddenly after perhaps half an hour I had a surge of energy and wakefulness seemingly out of no where. I proceeded not to sleep the entire night and just ran around my house like I had caffeine injected straight into the vein.

The actual joke is veganism, you can especially see this in women who look generally youthful before starting and then age like crazy, lose tons of weight, and become anemic and constantly cold. Then they come to their senses and start eating animals again. There is no point for argument because there is no argument that could possibly be made for veganism. I legit come to these threads oftentimes just to watch the show. So much effort from the sensible omnivores (99% of the community) arguing with a handful of "Peaty" vegans.

You'll ride the vegan wave until suddenly you can't anymore and you won't understand why. Then you'll just stop being a vegan. That's how it happens to all ex-vegans. Some try harder than others to tough it out and try all these crazy expensive things to fix themselves for months and months as they get worse. Some cave in faster, but all cave in eventually. We won't hold it against you when your time finally comes, I swear lol (at least I won't). You don't even have to tell anyone, just don't end up dead for veganism.

Cool story bro. I'll let you know if anything changes but for now I'm definitely sticking to a vegan diet while applying Peat's principles of high energy, low PUFA etc. It's without a doubt the best i've felt and looked, while all the checks and balances are where they should be blood wise, energy wise, strength wise, temps wise and metabolism wise.. And i'm into my third year. Btw I used to consume milk, cheese, organ meats, gelatinous cuts, etc. in following Peat, about 3 years of that. Before that was keto for many years, and before that vegan but eating high PUFA low sugar and so forth, so I have a lot of good experience to go off. I just combine my experiences with the science and research and do what is logical and rational based on that, and how I'm eating now makes sense and is feeling on point. How's your diet going? How's your health?

 

[Ella]

just don't end up dead for veganism

Great slogan @redsun . Love it :)

I am not hard-core carnivore. I love eating lamb and bean soup and a favourite for winter is lamb and barley soup with leafy greens with grated parmesan or percorino cheese to balance out the phosphate. I find it wonderfully calming and warming.

Eating the lamb on its own, does not appeal either. We are creative creatures gifted with the ability to transform boring and unappealing foods into wonderful dishes that delight the taste buds. Take zucchini for instance. Why would anyone bother to grow it - such a bland vegetable. However, combine with raisins, sultanas, grated orange or lemon peel, wrapped in filo pastry and drenched with lovely cream and it is simply irresistible. Try devouring only one slice of zucchini strudel. What about stuffing those gorgeous yellow zucchini flowers with ricotta and parmesan cheese - a die-for. I grow zucchini just so I can stuff those flowers. My problem is food for me is not just about eating, it's a love affair and I bore too easily. I want my food and table to excite all the senses.

 

[Korven]

It isn't a joke. It's reality. Vegans, the long term ones are dropping out of the vegan religion as they realize their health is failing. Slowly but surely it happens to all hardcore vegans. Even one's that have the money and dedication to do it right. They have a few great years of flying high with tons of energy which slumps down more and more until they are half dead. Some last months, some last years, all fall eventually because humans are not meant to live on plant matter alone.

My personal opinion is because a vegan diet is very heavy on copper content and adequate enough in iron(which more copper helps to absorb the nonheme iron better than usual) and jokingly low in zinc bioavailability. This copper constantly stimulates the CNS which sustains energy. Vegan diet is tons of sugar and carbs + copper with virtually zero antagonism of sympathetic nervous system by zinc and lack of choline(for acetylcholine aka the parasympathetic nervous system). And you don't even need much copper (though vegan diet provides a lot regardless) because without zinc you have virtually nothing stopping conversion of dopamine to noradrenaline and adrenaline. You can be like this for years but constant SNS activity increases wear and tear on all tissues and organs. The high manganese content of vegan diets can act similarly to zinc and work for awhile but what happens is you will not be able to repair damage faster than it is being made.

And because any vegan that has a few brain cells takes B12, they can make adrenaline easily as well. I'd argue many vegans are literally being sustained by constant B12 supplementation as well. Anyone is welcome to try say 5mg of methylB12 sublingual. I took just 1mg methylB12 one time under the tongue right when I had to sleep months ago(stupid idea, pure curiosity). I did it correctly as suddenly after perhaps half an hour I had a surge of energy and wakefulness seemingly out of no where. I proceeded not to sleep the entire night and just ran around my house like I had caffeine injected straight into the vein.

The actual joke is veganism, you can especially see this in women who look generally youthful before starting and then age like crazy, lose tons of weight, and become anemic and constantly cold. Then they come to their senses and start eating animals again. There is no point for argument because there is no argument that could possibly be made for veganism. I legit come to these threads oftentimes just to watch the show. So much effort from the sensible omnivores (99% of the community) arguing with a handful of "Peaty" vegans.

You'll ride the vegan wave until suddenly you can't anymore and you won't understand why. Then you'll just stop being a vegan. That's how it happens to all ex-vegans. Some try harder than others to tough it out and try all these crazy expensive things to fix themselves for months and months as they get worse. Some cave in faster, but all cave in eventually. We won't hold it against you when your time finally comes, I swear lol (at least I won't). You don't even have to tell anyone, just don't end up dead for veganism.

"Some cave in faster, but all cave in eventually."

Intuitively I feel like this should be true for all vegans, and it fits my personal experience with being vegan for 3 years, feeling sub-optimal, digestion gone to ***t and thus adding animal products back in...

...but how do you explain long-term (15+ years) vegans that seem to be thriving? Or even lifelong vegans in perfectly good health?

For example:

Here's John McDougall's son, Craig McDougall, and from what I know he has been eating a vegan, probably starch-based, diet his whole life and it looks like he is in perfectly good health. This should be impossible if animal products are necessary for development.



Here's Nimai Delgado who's been vegetarian for his entire life, and vegan for the last 6 years or so I think. In my opinion he looks pretty darn good and has what I consider an optimal physique (not sure if natty or not):



Here's yet another strong, healthy looking vegan going on 16 years and he says he developed all of his muscle eating a 100% vegan diet:



You could find many more examples of very healthy, robust long-term vegans.

I am myself quite puzzled by this...

Are some people just better suited to eating tons of fiber with no digestive problems, and/or endogenously making essential nutrients such as choline, cholesterol etc?

 

[boris]

...but how do you explain long-term (15+ years) vegans that seem to be thriving? Or even lifelong vegans in perfectly good health?

I am myself quite puzzled by this...

Are some people just better suited to eating tons of fiber with no digestive problems, and/or endogenously making essential nutrients such as choline, cholesterol etc?

People who "strive" probably have low mental stress and no underlying conditions which a lowering of hormone function would trigger. Like heavy metal poisoning, something a quick metabolism deals with without a problem. They may do fine, but that is no indication that it is a good diet.
Also keep in mind that people are not honest and will do anything for money. A lot of fitness people on youtube are on roids.
Look what kind of money there is involved in the McDougall name. There's retreats, online courses, certificates. The on-site health program costs $7K per person. McDougall 10-day Live-in Program in Santa Rosa, California | Dr. McDougall's Health & Medical Center
If he is not feeling well he probably won't tell you about it, he would be hurting his business. Just like that "aging in reverse" David Sinclar guy who can't move his face anymore because of so much botox.


Many studies show that a vegan diet is superior in regards to health to a diet with animal products. But the way they are framed is confusing. What they actually show is that a vegan diet is superior to SAD (standard american diet). Makes sense since vegans are probably health conscious and pay attention to things like harmful artificial additives which the SAD is full of and vegans get plenty of minerals and fruit that a SAD doesn't have.
Doesn't mean it's healthier than a regular Peat inspired diet with animal products.

 

[CLASH]

"Some cave in faster, but all cave in eventually."

Intuitively I feel like this should be true for all vegans, and it fits my personal experience with being vegan for 3 years, feeling sub-optimal, digestion gone to ***t and thus adding animal products back in...

...but how do you explain long-term (15+ years) vegans that seem to be thriving? Or even lifelong vegans in perfectly good health?

For example:

Here's John McDougall's son, Craig McDougall, and from what I know he has been eating a vegan, probably starch-based, diet his whole life and it looks like he is in perfectly good health. This should be impossible if animal products are necessary for development.



Here's Nimai Delgado who's been vegetarian for his entire life, and vegan for the last 6 years or so I think. In my opinion he looks pretty darn good and has what I consider an optimal physique (not sure if natty or not):



Here's yet another strong, healthy looking vegan going on 16 years and he says he developed all of his muscle eating a 100% vegan diet:



You could find many more examples of very healthy, robust long-term vegans.

I am myself quite puzzled by this...

Are some people just better suited to eating tons of fiber with no digestive problems, and/or endogenously making essential nutrients such as choline, cholesterol etc?

Craig Mcdougal looks like an average guy, cant really say much about that, dont know much about him.

I'm pretty sure that Nimai Delgado uses steroids, hes just not open about it.

I'm not sure who the last guy is, but his content includes lots of lifting, and alot of product reviews for hair loss products and ED products. Regardless of what he claims, considering his physique, his diet, the drugs hes talking about using and his overall disposition, I'd venture to guess he's also using steroids.

 

[CLASH]

Some people here act like we're trying to figure out some perfect strict diet for every ******* human being.

After years of trying to figure out a diet I feel good on, I've settled on a Peaty vegan diet. I don't care about representing veganism though. I've been a vegan who felt terrible and craved animal foods, I know what it's like. Now I don't crave them and I feel better than with animal foods in my diet.

A mainstream vegan eats even more PUFA, hard to digest fiber and anti-nutrients than a mainstream omnivore, while not getting the cholesterol, saturated fat etc. from animal foods, of course it's a huge problem.

Lol some of us are trying to find the "perfect strict diet" for every human being. Just its not about being strict and the goal is to find general underlying principles to form a general template, not necessarily a "strict diet".

No one is arguing here against a plant based diet in the sense that a large part of the diet is constituted of plants, at least not from what I can see. The argument is that for optimal health animal foods are also needed, especially in the long run. I would also argue against a carnivore diet as well; it isnt optimal. An omnivore diet is ideal for humans, I dont see how any argument can be made against it?

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Not trying to convince you to go vegan mate. Not interested in really going on and on about this either in this argumentative style. Just pointing out that it is completely doable to be vegan and in great health with high metabolism, and that Peat has clearly stated it is doable. I've been doing it for 3 years and never felt better, there are many like me. And pointing out that this anti vegan sentiment is a joke, just do you man. Stay open and perceive think act, if you wanna eat high dairy high meat, go for it, keep your PUFA's low, keep you sugar and carb intake high, get enough protein but avoid the inflammatory aminos as much as possible (particularly methionine, cysteine and tryptophan).. There's just no need to be so defensive about it in opposition to a plant based diet.

I never said you were.

So basically you don't wan to see proof that a vegan diet isn't suitable for humans? Fine, but stop spreading lies. Ray never advocated for a vegan diet.

Saying that a vegan diet is suitable for long-term health is the real joke here.

Why didn't you perceive, think and act after I showed you all that evidence for nutritional deficiencies in vegans?

I'm only showing proof against a vegan diet. If the studies showed vegans were replete in those things, I wouldn't even be discussing whether or not a vegan diet is good or bad.

Oh yeah, I certainly do those things. My diet is indeed pretty low PUFA, high in glycine, high in carbs, etc.

You probably just bite into an animal walking by.

Only if it's pasture-raised.

Some people here act like we're trying to figure out some perfect strict diet for every ******* human being.

After years of trying to figure out a diet I feel good on, I've settled on a Peaty vegan diet. I don't care about representing veganism though. I've been a vegan who felt terrible and craved animal foods, I know what it's like. Now I don't crave them and I feel better than with animal foods in my diet.

A mainstream vegan eats even more PUFA, hard to digest fiber and anti-nutrients than a mainstream omnivore, while not getting the cholesterol, saturated fat etc. from animal foods, of course it's a huge problem.

It's hard to avoid physiology when discussing diet and nutrition.

It isn't a joke. It's reality. Vegans, the long term ones are dropping out of the vegan religion as they realize their health is failing. Slowly but surely it happens to all hardcore vegans. Even one's that have the money and dedication to do it right. They have a few great years of flying high with tons of energy which slumps down more and more until they are half dead. Some last months, some last years, all fall eventually because humans are not meant to live on plant matter alone.

My personal opinion is because a vegan diet is very heavy on copper content and adequate enough in iron(which more copper helps to absorb the nonheme iron better than usual) and jokingly low in zinc bioavailability. This copper constantly stimulates the CNS which sustains energy. Vegan diet is tons of sugar and carbs + copper with virtually zero antagonism of sympathetic nervous system by zinc and lack of choline(for acetylcholine aka the parasympathetic nervous system). And you don't even need much copper (though vegan diet provides a lot regardless) because without zinc you have virtually nothing stopping conversion of dopamine to noradrenaline and adrenaline. You can be like this for years but constant SNS activity increases wear and tear on all tissues and organs. The high manganese content of vegan diets can act similarly to zinc and work for awhile but what happens is you will not be able to repair damage faster than it is being made.

And because any vegan that has a few brain cells takes B12, they can make adrenaline easily as well. I'd argue many vegans are literally being sustained by constant B12 supplementation as well. Anyone is welcome to try say 5mg of methylB12 sublingual. I took just 1mg methylB12 one time under the tongue right when I had to sleep months ago(stupid idea, pure curiosity). I did it correctly as suddenly after perhaps half an hour I had a surge of energy and wakefulness seemingly out of no where. I proceeded not to sleep the entire night and just ran around my house like I had caffeine injected straight into the vein.

The actual joke is veganism, you can especially see this in women who look generally youthful before starting and then age like crazy, lose tons of weight, and become anemic and constantly cold. Then they come to their senses and start eating animals again. There is no point for argument because there is no argument that could possibly be made for veganism. I legit come to these threads oftentimes just to watch the show. So much effort from the sensible omnivores (99% of the community) arguing with a handful of "Peaty" vegans.

You'll ride the vegan wave until suddenly you can't anymore and you won't understand why. Then you'll just stop being a vegan. That's how it happens to all ex-vegans. Some try harder than others to tough it out and try all these crazy expensive things to fix themselves for months and months as they get worse. Some cave in faster, but all cave in eventually. We won't hold it against you when your time finally comes, I swear lol (at least I won't). You don't even have to tell anyone, just don't end up dead for veganism.

Nice post.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

An omnivore diet is ideal for humans, I dont see how any argument can be made against it?

I have nothing against an omnivore diet.

 

[RWilly]

But you can get the same amino acids, proteins, and fats from plant derived sources. There’s no need to consume animals to get those nutrients.

Ray Peat talks about just that in this interview, at about the 47 minute mark. He says that potatoes can be a more than perfect protein, as it can use up waste nitrogen in the body and use that to make proteins.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Ray Peat talks about just that in this interview, at about the 47 minute mark. He says that potatoes can be a more than perfect protein, as it can use up waste nitrogen in the body and use that to make proteins.

If we are talking purely about amino- acids, then yeah, potatoes are a great source of protein, but the mistake is thinking that you can get all the other beneficial compounds from meat and milk from potatoes or other tubers.

 

[RWilly]

If we are talking purely about amino- acids, then yeah, potatoes are a great source of protein, but the mistake is thinking that you can get all the other beneficial compounds from meat and milk from potatoes or other tubers.

A potato is pretty nutrient dense. The Irish did well on an almost pure potato diet.

 

[tankasnowgod]

He wouldn't advocate or recommend a vegan diet (which he has done) if he thought it would cause issues long term. He would simply say he doesn't recommend it.

Peat has never advocated or recommended a vegan diet.

 

[Opioidus]

It's darwinism in action, I can't say I'm against it, let stupid, evil people kill their offspring.

 

[MatheusPN]

It's darwinism in action, I can't say I'm against it, let stupid, evil people kill their offspring.

You are in admiration or neutral concerning people killing their children, more specifically, a baby, I cheer if you didn't/ don't have one, will cheer even more if you be applied and treated by a good asylum!
You'are kidding?! If so, pathetic

 

[Ritchie]

Peat has never advocated or recommended a vegan diet.

Peat has said numerous times in email responses, and on radio interviews, that a well planned vegan diet IS compatible with good health.. See below. Read what Westside said and asked him.. if someone was following a vegan diet like this could people be healthy..? And Peat's response: YES. Note that Westside was asking from a third person perspective and not specifically saying that he was vegan, and asking for Ray's opinion as to whether being vegan is compatible with good health. Ray didn't say: well no they would need some liver, or need some gelatinous cuts of meat, or need some dairy to be healthy. He said yes, in response to the question if he thinks someone can be healthy eating a vegan diet. There are other examples of this as well, from the radio talk show Peat appears on.

Sure he may not be technically advocating for a vegan diet, but he is giving it a co-sign and the thumbs up if done right. Further, you must remember that Peat's perspective and philosophy has evolved over time and continues to do so. He didn't use to recommend mushrooms for example and in fact used to warn people against them. It is very conceivable that he may change his perspective further on this one day to be recommending it in the positive sense as an option, given the more and more negatives being discovered about dairy (particularly from pasteurised and homogenised sources, and from pregnant cows or mass milked cows, which 99% of them are. Also the issues of casomorphin, mammalian estrogen and IGF-1 in the dairy), the high amounts of heme iron and other inflammatory amino acid profile issues with muscle meat, the high amounts of preformed vitamin A, heme iron and inflammatory aminos like methionine in organ meats like liver, the negatives of fish in terms of PUFA and heavy metals, the issues with factory farmed eggs, oxidised cholesterol, the issues with high protein consumption and so forth...

"Ray,
If someone was a dedicated vegan and they ate no animal products at all, it seems to me that the lack of casein from milk and the lack of glycine from oxtail soup/other animal glycine sources, would be the only real concern due to potential liver problems because of the lack thereof. But given your recent comments on the high protein quality of mushrooms and the high quality protein of potato, do you think if a vegan got most of their calories from quality fruits, some fruit juice, potatoes with coconut oil, mushrooms, and well cooked green leaves for calcium that as long as they have good blood tests for liver function/liver enzymes and thyroid function that they could be healthy?"

Ray Peat responds:

Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 3:05 PM
Re: Casein and glycine deficiency

"Yes, I think those goods can provide enough protein in a good balance of amino acids."