17 Years Old - Hypogonadism ?

[stumpus]

Only problem with that is his E2 was low.

 

[encerent]

slam all the idealabs supps at once

 

[lampofred]

oh no oh no. this is exactly what started happening to me at 17. i was fantastic until 15-16, then starting at 17 my health plummeted and it's still plummeting. i hope you fix your issues.

 

[redlight]

Where are you located what general area?

 

[Doludolu]

Ok. Sounds like you may have some endotoxin build up. Endotoxin will keep your estrogen high, and your test low. It can also physically damage nerves down there if you your colon is inflammed. The digestive enzymes will help. I would experiment with more fats and salt, and lowering all that fiber you are eating. Adding more fiber helps temporarily. But the more fiber you eat, the more it stretches your colon, and the more fiber it takes to fill the colon enough to stimulate a bowel movement.

Check your total daily fiber. And start lowering it slowly. Maybe 5g a week. Start with ditching the grains, then veggies, then switch out some fruits with juice, and honey, if it's still high. This will allow your colon to slowly unstretch without things shutting down from less stimulation. Cascara Sagrada, salt water, and milk of magnesia can help if things back up during the transition.
You really don't need much fiber for healthy digestion. I actually believe it potentially does more harm than good. Replace lost calories with more fat (particularly butter or ghee) and use lots of salt. Saturated fat is antimicrobial, and so is bile. These will help flush out the bugs.

My n=1: I had terrible bowel issues, and couldn't get a boner for months. Estrogen was off the charts and my candy cane and jingle bells shrank from lack of blood cycling (morning wood is vital for penis health!) Fiber would help temporarily and then I'd get worse. The approach I outlined above reversed things.

I think having a lot of gut bacteria allows you to eat more variety and quantity of carbs, and not effect your blood sugar as much, because they are being converted to SCFA by the bacteria. But I'm not sure being able to tolerate more carbs is worth the bacterial consequences.

This is my input, how you choose to use it is up to you. I hope you figure all this out. I can imagine you aren't enjoying life right now.

I have some both high E2 and low E2 symptoms, and my test shows really low E2. I experimented with higher fat diet but when too much it's just too hard for my digestive system. I will try to reduce fiber gradually. But what about fiber helping to flush out toxins? I thought that I have low bile becauase I used to get constipated very often. Not very sure what could be the cause of that?
For bacteria I thought I have SIBO actually, because lot of symptoms of that. I did natural anti-bacterial herbal protocol for 2 weeks it helped me but not cured. So do you suggest probiotics or what? I use them when I feel my digestion is getting worse.

 

[Doludolu]

Where are you located what general area?

I'm from eastern europe.

 

[Dante]

I'm from eastern europe.

The main thing i see here is the low LH which sounds like a pituitary problem ( the dude form other forum might be right about getting checked for the brain tumor but it's unlikely). I mean in peat's world TSH of 1.6 would be considered bad but it's damn good compared to most of the people out there . Did your doc ever comment anything about the LH ? Did you check your prolactin ?(hyperprolactinemia may cause low LH). The thing here is that low T/DHT can compromise immune system in males hence the candida overgrowth and other issues. So, the other problems like the endotoxin like reactions, bug overgrowth might be consequence of low T rather than the cause .

 

[Doludolu]

The main thing i see here is the low LH which sounds like a pituitary problem ( the dude form other forum might be right about getting checked for the brain tumor but it's unlikely). I mean in peat's world TSH of 1.6 would be considered bad but it's damn good compared to most of the people out there . Did your doc ever comment anything about the LH ? Did you check your prolactin ?(hyperprolactinemia may cause low LH). The thing here is that low T/DHT can compromise immune system in males hence the candida overgrowth and other issues. So, the other problems like the endotoxin like reactions, bug overgrowth might be consequence of low T rather than the cause .

Yeah next week I will go to neurologist and I will ask him for dispatch to republic hospital for MRI test. What do you think it could be problem in hypothalamus or pituitary? My doctor didn't comment anything about LH she said everything is okay, im just in stress from school/puberty and that's why sex hormones are low . But I can see it myself that it's very low. Yeah, next blood test I will check prolactin - but so far for symptoms I don't have gynecomastia which is typical for high prolactin, I'm a lean dude. Very interesting view that immune problems could be caused by low T/DHT, i don't know about that though?

 

[Dante]

What do you think it could be problem in hypothalamus or pituitary? My doctor didn't comment anything about LH she said everything is okay, im just in stress from school/puberty and that's why sex hormones are low . But I can see it myself that it's very low. Yeah, next blood test I will check prolactin - but so far for symptoms I don't have gynecomastia which is typical for high prolactin, I'm a lean dude. Very interesting view that immune problems could be caused by low T/DHT, i don't know about that though?

Don't worry bro, since you don't have moobs , it's unlikely that the hyperprolactinemia (if it's even there) would be caused by a pituitary tumor.
Regarding the immune problems caused by low T/DHT, the idea comes from a paper i read on pubmed. It had a N=1 case study where a dude on dutasteride was experiecing bacterial overgrowth , blisters like appearances on back etc. After leaving dut, those symptoms subsided. However, he started fin and the symptoms came back again. He had low T+ low DHT. So yeah, T+DHT has functions beyond libido,mood etc. Rest the neurologist will tell you :)
And as it's said before - just ditch the fish oils

 

[Doludolu]

Don't worry bro, since you don't have moobs , it's unlikely that the hyperprolactinemia (if it's even there) would be caused by a pituitary tumor.
Regarding the immune problems caused by low T/DHT, the idea comes from a paper i read on pubmed. It had a N=1 case study where a dude on dutasteride was experiecing bacterial overgrowth , blisters like appearances on back etc. After leaving dut, those symptoms subsided. However, he started fin and the symptoms came back again. He had low T+ low DHT. So yeah, T+DHT has functions beyond libido,mood etc. Rest the neurologist will tell you :)
And as it's said before - just ditch the fish oils

For example if I get tested and there is a tumor in my brain. What should I do?

 

[redlight]

this list would help you narrow it down

TSH

Free T3

Free T4

Reverse T3

TPO, TGAB, TSI

Vit D

IRON PANEL

CBC

CMP



CRP C-reactive protein

ANA antinuclear antibody

SED sedimentation rate(sed rate)

CANDIDA

PARASITES

H. PYLORI

Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV) Antibody Tests

LYME test

HEAVY METALS



LH

FSH

Total Testosterone

SHBG

Prolactin

DHEAS

IGF-1

DHT

Parathyroid

Whole Blood Serotonin

Aldosterone

Renin Activity, Plasma

ATCH

Estradiol Ultrasensitive

Progesterone

Pregnenolone

Androstenedione

Estrone, Serum

 

[James IV]

I have some both high E2 and low E2 symptoms, and my test shows really low E2. I experimented with higher fat diet but when too much it's just too hard for my digestive system. I will try to reduce fiber gradually. But what about fiber helping to flush out toxins? I thought that I have low bile becauase I used to get constipated very often. Not very sure what could be the cause of that?
For bacteria I thought I have SIBO actually, because lot of symptoms of that. I did natural anti-bacterial herbal protocol for 2 weeks it helped me but not cured. So do you suggest probiotics or what? I use them when I feel my digestion is getting worse.

No. I wouldn't take probiotics. If you have too much bacteria, I wouldn't feed more.

 

[Risingfire]

I did intermitted fasting about a year ago and I wasn't tracking my calories +training and I lost weight because it was just hard to eat enough while doing IF, though I liked its effects/lifestyle. Why drop iodine? It with Brazil nuts seems to help for my metabolism so far

Iodine can easily throw off your thyroid.

Brazil nuts are loaded with pufa

 

[franko]

You might want to look through my post history / logs, we seem to have similar issues, and I've already been through a lot of the therapies you're considering.

I started taking supplemental iodine daily

Ray Peat has talked about the toxic effects of excess iodine which can be as little as twice the RDA minimum. See:

You'd probably be better off just taking thyroid.

do a test for brain tumor, he suspects it could be that and it affects my hypothalamus/pituitary function

I had an Endocrinologist send me down that route after a blood test which showed a high prolactin. It was a waste of $300, and I shopped around for that price because the place that doc referred me too was going to charge $3000.

@haidut ( resident forum genius ) told me that a prolactinoma causing high prolactin is very rare.

With prolactin below 50, there is less than 1/1,000,000 chance of you having prolactinoma so not sure what that endocrinologist was thinking. Prolactin below 50 is usually hypothyroidism, liver, or kidney disease, or low carb-diet combined with endurance exercise (in that order).

And indeed, the MRI came back negative for me. Definitely don't do an MRI before you get your prolactin test, and you probably don't need an MRI unless your prolactin is very, very high like in the triple digits.

I used to have constipation and poop every 3 days, now I eat more fiber, drink more water, coffee, also take magnesium citrate in mornings and now I poop at least once in 1-2 days.

Ray Peat recommends cascara sagrada for constipation, but if you're like me, if you start taking thyroid and having a raw carrot every day, you won't need it. That has made me once a day regular.

my test shows really low E2

Another thing Ray Peat and @haidut says is that prolactin is a good proxy measure of tissue estrogen. So you can have low / normal blood estrogen like me, but still have symptoms of high estrogen. So, it's probably a better idea to have your prolactin checked regularly and use that as a proxy measurement for tissue estrogen.

But what about fiber helping to flush out toxins? I thought that I have low bile becauase I used to get constipated very often.

Fiber is like a crutch for slow bowels but it's not ideal, and may actually make things worse. Ray Peat does not recommend it with the exception of raw carrot and boiled bamboo shoots for their antibiotic properties. Better to raise your metabolism and your bowel transit which will likely raise together.

So do you suggest probiotics or what? I use them when I feel my digestion is getting worse.

Ray Peat is not a big fan of probiotics in general. In fact, the raw carrot (alone or as a "carrot salad" with coconut oil and apple cider vinegar), has a mild antibiotic effect, and Ray talks a lot about the benefits of a more sterile gut and about the benefits of using antibiotics as a remedy. But the raw carrot a day is a safe and affordable thing to start with as you do more research.

next week I will go to neurologist and I will ask him for dispatch to republic hospital for MRI test.

See above about how you probably don't need an MRI, especially not before getting prolactin checked.

---

In general, a quick way to learn Ray Peat's ideas now, thanks to @raypeatclips, is to go to youtube and type in "ray peat [enter your symptom or a potential remedy]" and listen to excerpts from his interviews. So for example, I would recommend searches for you like:

youtube: "ray peat testosterone"
youtube: "ray peat fiber"
youtube: "ray peat constipation"
youtube: "ray peat prolactin"

And so on.

Basically, I think the best way forward for you is to start with the fundamentals of the general "Ray Peat protocol", so to speak, which are recommended to everyone.

Your testosterone will probably go up when you address the underlying metabolism issues, and you'll find that metabolism, transit time, testosterone, a mood/depression are all correlated.

If you're eating avocados, fish oil, and chicken, then you still need to learn the Peat basics, as avoiding PUFA (polyunsaturated fatty acids) is one of the fundamental Peat lessons. Search youtube for "ray peat pufa".

 

[Doludolu]

You might want to look through my post history / logs, we seem to have similar issues, and I've already been through a lot of the therapies you're considering.



Ray Peat has talked about the toxic effects of excess iodine which can be as little as twice the RDA minimum. See:

You'd probably be better off just taking thyroid.



I had an Endocrinologist send me down that route after a blood test which showed a high prolactin. It was a waste of $300, and I shopped around for that price because the place that doc referred me too was going to charge $3000.

@haidut ( resident forum genius ) told me that a prolactinoma causing high prolactin is very rare.



And indeed, the MRI came back negative for me. Definitely don't do an MRI before you get your prolactin test, and you probably don't need an MRI unless your prolactin is very, very high like in the triple digits.



Ray Peat recommends cascara sagrada for constipation, but if you're like me, if you start taking thyroid and having a raw carrot every day, you won't need it. That has made me once a day regular.



Another thing Ray Peat and @haidut says is that prolactin is a good proxy measure of tissue estrogen. So you can have low / normal blood estrogen like me, but still have symptoms of high estrogen. So, it's probably a better idea to have your prolactin checked regularly and use that as a proxy measurement for tissue estrogen.



Fiber is like a crutch for slow bowels but it's not ideal, and may actually make things worse. Ray Peat does not recommend it with the exception of raw carrot and boiled bamboo shoots for their antibiotic properties. Better to raise your metabolism and your bowel transit which will likely raise together.



Ray Peat is not a big fan of probiotics in general. In fact, the raw carrot (alone or as a "carrot salad" with coconut oil and apple cider vinegar), has a mild antibiotic effect, and Ray talks a lot about the benefits of a more sterile gut and about the benefits of using antibiotics as a remedy. But the raw carrot a day is a safe and affordable thing to start with as you do more research.



See above about how you probably don't need an MRI, especially not before getting prolactin checked.

---

In general, a quick way to learn Ray Peat's ideas now, thanks to @raypeatclips, is to go to youtube and type in "ray peat [enter your symptom or a potential remedy]" and listen to excerpts from his interviews. So for example, I would recommend searches for you like:

youtube: "ray peat testosterone"
youtube: "ray peat fiber"
youtube: "ray peat constipation"
youtube: "ray peat prolactin"

And so on.

Basically, I think the best way forward for you is to start with the fundamentals of the general "Ray Peat protocol", so to speak, which are recommended to everyone.

Your testosterone will probably go up when you address the underlying metabolism issues, and you'll find that metabolism, transit time, testosterone, a mood/depression are all correlated.

If you're eating avocados, fish oil, and chicken, then you still need to learn the Peat basics, as avoiding PUFA (polyunsaturated fatty acids) is one of the fundamental Peat lessons. Search youtube for "ray peat pufa".

Thank you for all the info. I appreciate it!
So as much as I understood you can have low E2, but have the high E2 symptoms because of high prolactin, yes?
Also, you don't recommend an MRI or CT (which I could get for free because I'm not 18 yet), but then what else could be causing this really low LH excretion when I' im puberty? It definetly is some kind of pituitary/hypothalamus hypofunction, I just need to find out what is causing it.. Cmon, I should be bursting with LH and other sex hormones at this age. @haidut Hello sir, I would be so grateful if you could give a minute and check my post and say what you think is going on with me?

 

[Doludolu]

You might want to look through my post history / logs, we seem to have similar issues, and I've already been through a lot of the therapies you're considering.



Ray Peat has talked about the toxic effects of excess iodine which can be as little as twice the RDA minimum. See:

You'd probably be better off just taking thyroid.



I had an Endocrinologist send me down that route after a blood test which showed a high prolactin. It was a waste of $300, and I shopped around for that price because the place that doc referred me too was going to charge $3000.

@haidut ( resident forum genius ) told me that a prolactinoma causing high prolactin is very rare.



And indeed, the MRI came back negative for me. Definitely don't do an MRI before you get your prolactin test, and you probably don't need an MRI unless your prolactin is very, very high like in the triple digits.



Ray Peat recommends cascara sagrada for constipation, but if you're like me, if you start taking thyroid and having a raw carrot every day, you won't need it. That has made me once a day regular.



Another thing Ray Peat and @haidut says is that prolactin is a good proxy measure of tissue estrogen. So you can have low / normal blood estrogen like me, but still have symptoms of high estrogen. So, it's probably a better idea to have your prolactin checked regularly and use that as a proxy measurement for tissue estrogen.



Fiber is like a crutch for slow bowels but it's not ideal, and may actually make things worse. Ray Peat does not recommend it with the exception of raw carrot and boiled bamboo shoots for their antibiotic properties. Better to raise your metabolism and your bowel transit which will likely raise together.



Ray Peat is not a big fan of probiotics in general. In fact, the raw carrot (alone or as a "carrot salad" with coconut oil and apple cider vinegar), has a mild antibiotic effect, and Ray talks a lot about the benefits of a more sterile gut and about the benefits of using antibiotics as a remedy. But the raw carrot a day is a safe and affordable thing to start with as you do more research.



See above about how you probably don't need an MRI, especially not before getting prolactin checked.

---

In general, a quick way to learn Ray Peat's ideas now, thanks to @raypeatclips, is to go to youtube and type in "ray peat [enter your symptom or a potential remedy]" and listen to excerpts from his interviews. So for example, I would recommend searches for you like:

youtube: "ray peat testosterone"
youtube: "ray peat fiber"
youtube: "ray peat constipation"
youtube: "ray peat prolactin"

And so on.

Basically, I think the best way forward for you is to start with the fundamentals of the general "Ray Peat protocol", so to speak, which are recommended to everyone.

Your testosterone will probably go up when you address the underlying metabolism issues, and you'll find that metabolism, transit time, testosterone, a mood/depression are all correlated.

If you're eating avocados, fish oil, and chicken, then you still need to learn the Peat basics, as avoiding PUFA (polyunsaturated fatty acids) is one of the fundamental Peat lessons. Search youtube for "ray peat pufa".

So I understand your point about iodine now and brazil nuts that they have too much pufa, but my doctor prescribed 150ug natural iodine/day and I myself ate 3 brazil nuts a day for selenium,
so doctor did bloodwork only for TSH and FT4 and TSH improved slightly, from 1,63 to 1,84 and FT4 improved from 9,73 to 13,1
so maybe brazil nuts are worth it for small amount of pufa (you eat max 3-4 of them a day) and they pack a punch of antioxidants, and selenium for thyroid especially, maybe it's worth it what you think ?

 

[haidut]

Thank you for all the info. I appreciate it!
So as much as I understood you can have low E2, but have the high E2 symptoms because of high prolactin, yes?
Also, you don't recommend an MRI or CT (which I could get for free because I'm not 18 yet), but then what else could be causing this really low LH excretion when I' im puberty? It definetly is some kind of pituitary/hypothalamus hypofunction, I just need to find out what is causing it.. Cmon, I should be bursting with LH and other sex hormones at this age. @haidut Hello sir, I would be so grateful if you could give a minute and check my post and say what you think is going on with me?

I would get the MRI if it is not too much trouble. Doubt that it is a tumor but there may be something called "central hypodonadism", which can indeed be caused by stress and or some pathology in the hypothalamus or pituitary. If you have not already tested it, I would also check prolactin, DHEA-S, and cortisol.

 

[Doludolu]

I would get the MRI if it is not too much trouble. Doubt that it is a tumor but there may be something called "central hypodonadism", which can indeed be caused by stress and or some pathology in the hypothalamus or pituitary. If you have not already tested it, I would also check prolactin, DHEA-S, and cortisol.

Thanks, I will try to get that MRI. I haven't checked prolactin, dhea-s and cortisol yet, but I will do it soon! Also, could you recommend any kind of natural Hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal hormones boosting protocol that I could try? I need to increase my GnRH so more of it will convert to LH, If I will have enough LH then I will get more T if everything works fine. Any suggestions to really do it and feel it?

 

[haidut]

Thanks, I will try to get that MRI. I haven't checked prolactin, dhea-s and cortisol yet, but I will do it soon! Also, could you recommend any kind of natural Hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal hormones boosting protocol that I could try? I need to increase my GnRH so more of it will convert to LH, If I will have enough LH then I will get more T if everything works fine. Any suggestions to really do it and feel it?

I would not mess with hormones until we know more about the low LH, low T, and low E2. If it is central hypogonadism then the doctor will be able to prescribe something.

 

[Doludolu]

So after about 4 months of previous blood work, now I did another one.
I tried to optimize my sleep more, ate more carbs, salt, I exercised too. This bloodwork is the day after good upper body exercise.
My results:
Testosterone now is 587ng/dl. Last test it was 258 ng/dL. So quite a significant increase.
E2 now is 20,5 pg/ml. Last test it was 5pg/ml. So also it increased pretty good.
LH now is 1,80 IU/L. Last test it was 1,25 (below reference range). Now it increased a little bit, but still it is very low, just on the end of reference ranges.
Prolactin is 5.42 ng/ml Ref range: [4.04 - 23.30 ng/ml]
Progesterone is 0.559 ng/ml. Ref range by this laboratory is [0.00 - 0.149 ng/ml]. So it's too high??

Later GH and DHEA-S results will come.

So last test I took in the afternoon, this was in the morning. So,my T increased by more than double, but I don't feel having high libido or frequent erections/morning wood that I used to have far more often, lack of body hair too.
It seems I managed to increase my T through better food choices, sleep and exercise. Eitherway my LH is too low. Wonder what is going on.. ??