15 Aspirins Per Day?

RPDiciple

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but that is baby aspirins i guess wich is 80 mg ? so thats only 1 gram or around that a day. Not much
 

schultz

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RPDiciple said:
but that is baby aspirins i guess wich is 80 mg ? so thats only 1 gram or around that a day. Not much

I think its regular dose aspirin. The caller is calling about his friend who has HIV. 5g of aspirin seems about right... I think Ray has mentioned around that amount for treating cancer.
 

haidut

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RPDiciple said:
but that is baby aspirins i guess wich is 80 mg ? so thats only 1 gram or around that a day. Not much

I think he meant the regular 325mg tablets. High doses of aspirin are sometimes used in clinical practice. There is a human study that used 90mg/kg (5g-7g daily for a human) resulting in complete restoration of insulin sensitivity without any weight loss - i.e. people stayed fat but were no longer diabetic (type II). If suppression of fatty acids is what restored the insulin sensitivity and is also implicated in HIV pathology like Ray suggested, then 15 tablets of 325mg each is probably about right.
Just my 2c.
 

schultz

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haidut said:
RPDiciple said:
but that is baby aspirins i guess wich is 80 mg ? so thats only 1 gram or around that a day. Not much

I think he meant the regular 325mg tablets. High doses of aspirin are sometimes used in clinical practice. There is a human study that used 90mg/kg (5g-7g daily for a human) resulting in complete restoration of insulin sensitivity without any weight loss - i.e. people stayed fat but were no longer diabetic (type II). If suppression of fatty acids is what restored the insulin sensitivity and is also implicated in HIV pathology like Ray suggested, then 15 tablets of 325mg each is probably about right.
Just my 2c.

Amazing! Do you happen to have a link to this study? I would love to give it a read.
 

schultz

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RPDiciple said:
Interesting.

But i thought aspirin was also good to use for weight/fat loss?

I think haidut mentioned the fact that they didn't lose weight because excess weight is a big risk factor for diabetes, so it is pretty impressive that they got those effects without the weight loss.
 

haidut

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schultz said:
haidut said:
RPDiciple said:
but that is baby aspirins i guess wich is 80 mg ? so thats only 1 gram or around that a day. Not much

I think he meant the regular 325mg tablets. High doses of aspirin are sometimes used in clinical practice. There is a human study that used 90mg/kg (5g-7g daily for a human) resulting in complete restoration of insulin sensitivity without any weight loss - i.e. people stayed fat but were no longer diabetic (type II). If suppression of fatty acids is what restored the insulin sensitivity and is also implicated in HIV pathology like Ray suggested, then 15 tablets of 325mg each is probably about right.
Just my 2c.

Amazing! Do you happen to have a link to this study? I would love to give it a read.

Yep, here it is. As you can see the results from 7g a day were impressive in terms of metabolic health biomarkers, even though the patients stayed fat. So much for needing to lose weight being the only way to get healthy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12021247/

"...To test this hypothesis, we studied nine type 2 diabetic subjects before and after 2 weeks of treatment with aspirin ( approximately 7 g/d). Subjects underwent mixed-meal tolerance tests and hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamps with [6,6-(2)H2]glucose to assess glucose turnover before and after treatment. High-dose aspirin treatment resulted in a approximately 25% reduction in fasting plasma glucose, associated with a approximately 15% reduction in total cholesterol and C-reactive protein, a approximately 50% reduction in triglycerides, and a approximately 30% reduction in insulin clearance, despite no change in body weight. During a mixed-meal tolerance test, the areas under the curve for plasma glucose and fatty acid levels decreased by approximately 20% and approximately 50%, respectively. Aspirin treatment also resulted in a approximately 20% reduction in basal rates of hepatic glucose production and a approximately 20% improvement in insulin-stimulated peripheral glucose uptake under matched plasma insulin concentrations during the clamp. In conclusion, these data support the hypothesis that IKKbeta represents a new target for treating type 2 diabetes mellitus."
 

haidut

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haidut said:
schultz said:
haidut said:
RPDiciple said:
but that is baby aspirins i guess wich is 80 mg ? so thats only 1 gram or around that a day. Not much

I think he meant the regular 325mg tablets. High doses of aspirin are sometimes used in clinical practice. There is a human study that used 90mg/kg (5g-7g daily for a human) resulting in complete restoration of insulin sensitivity without any weight loss - i.e. people stayed fat but were no longer diabetic (type II). If suppression of fatty acids is what restored the insulin sensitivity and is also implicated in HIV pathology like Ray suggested, then 15 tablets of 325mg each is probably about right.
Just my 2c.

Amazing! Do you happen to have a link to this study? I would love to give it a read.

Yep, here it is. As you can see the results from 7g a day were impressive in terms of metabolic health biomarkers, even though the patients stayed fat. So much for needing to lose weight being the only way to get healthy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12021247/

"...To test this hypothesis, we studied nine type 2 diabetic subjects before and after 2 weeks of treatment with aspirin ( approximately 7 g/d). Subjects underwent mixed-meal tolerance tests and hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamps with [6,6-(2)H2]glucose to assess glucose turnover before and after treatment. High-dose aspirin treatment resulted in a approximately 25% reduction in fasting plasma glucose, associated with a approximately 15% reduction in total cholesterol and C-reactive protein, a approximately 50% reduction in triglycerides, and a approximately 30% reduction in insulin clearance, despite no change in body weight. During a mixed-meal tolerance test, the areas under the curve for plasma glucose and fatty acid levels decreased by approximately 20% and approximately 50%, respectively. Aspirin treatment also resulted in a approximately 20% reduction in basal rates of hepatic glucose production and a approximately 20% improvement in insulin-stimulated peripheral glucose uptake under matched plasma insulin concentrations during the clamp. In conclusion, these data support the hypothesis that IKKbeta represents a new target for treating type 2 diabetes mellitus."

Here is another study of potential interest, showing aspirin activates AMPK and this may be the mechanism behind its beneficial effects on metabolic health.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3399766/

"...Our results show that salicylate can directly activate AMPK, primarily by inhibiting Thr-172 dephosphorylation. The plasma salicylate concentrations in humans treated with oral salsalate (4) or high-dose aspirin (30-90 mg/kg) (25, 26) are 1 to 3 mM. At these concentrations, salicylate activated AMPK in WT and RG HEK-293 cells to the same extent, and did not increase cellular ADP:ATP ratios, indicating an AMP-independent mechanism. Thus, the natural product salicylate can activate AMPK via a mechanism closely related to that of A-769662, a synthetic activator derived from a high-throughput screen (which, unlike salicylates, has poor oral availability (18)). Although the exact site(s) occupied by salicylate and A-769662 on AMPK remain unidentified, our finding that the S108A mutation abolishes activation by both agents suggests that the binding sites overlap. Effects of salicylate on fat oxidation in vivo appear to require activation of AMPK-β1 complexes. Aspirin also reduces circulating lipids in obese rats and improves insulin sensitivity (7). However, in agreement with previous studies (7, 27), our results using long-term salicylate treatment of fat-fed mice (Fig. S7) indicate that effects on AMPK-independent pathways, such as IKKβ or JNK, are also important. After oral administration, aspirin is rapidly broken down by liver, erythrocyte, and plasma esterases to salicylate (3), whose peak plasma concentrations and half-life are orders of magnitude greater than those of aspirin (2). Our findings raise the possibility that other effects of aspirin, like protective effects against development of cancer (28), may be mediated in part by AMPK. AMPK is activated by the anti-diabetic drug metformin (17, 29), and treatment of diabetics with metformin is also associated with reduced cancer incidence (30). Our results show that one thing that salicylates and metformin hold in common is their ability to activate AMPK. However, one caveat is that the doses of aspirin required to activate AMPK in vivo may be higher than those used in most human studies."
 

Amazoniac

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I would not recommend much aspirin for HIV patients. It is very hard on the liver, and generally - without knowing the specific case - HIV patients have a lot of liver damage from previous drug use and/or the antiretrovirals they were prescribed.
 

answersfound

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oxidation_is_normal said:
I would not recommend much aspirin for HIV patients. It is very hard on the liver, and generally - without knowing the specific case - HIV patients have a lot of liver damage from previous drug use and/or the antiretrovirals they were prescribed.

Ray says aspirin is protective to the liver.
 
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Yes, I could be wrong here, and in many cases it is protective... I'm just promoting extra caution in cases with HIV patients.
 

burtlancast

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Ray mentioned a trial during the eighties where they used high dose aspirin for AIDS: it was so successful, they chose to stop it as to not concurrence the new anti retrovirals.

I never could find these studies.
 

haidut

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burtlancast said:
Ray mentioned a trial during the eighties where they used high dose aspirin for AIDS: it was so successful, they chose to stop it as to not concurrence the new anti retrovirals.

I never could find these studies.

I found those studies Ray is talking about on PubMed but I can't find their actual text. They were published in Nature, so if someone can find the full text it would be really helpful.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8177312
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11362298

It seems that there is a solid rationale behind the idea of treating HIV/AIDS with aspirin. Here are some studies that talk about the mechanism.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12971157
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11362292
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8052854
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12767473
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25638779
 

burtlancast

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Thanks.
From one of your links:
Inhibition of NF-kappa B by sodium salicylate and aspirin.
The transcription factor nuclear factor-kappa B (NF-kappa B) is critical for the inducible expression of multiple cellular and viral genes involved in inflammation and infection including interleukin-1 (IL-1), IL-6, and adhesion molecules. The anti-inflammatory drugs sodium salicylate and aspirin inhibited the activation of NF-kappa B, which further explains the mechanism of action of these drugs. This inhibition prevented the degradation of the NF-kappa B inhibitor, I kappa B, and therefore NF-kappa B was retained in the cytosol. Sodium salicylate and aspirin also inhibited NF-kappa B-dependent transcription from the Ig kappa enhancer and the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) long terminal repeat (LTR) in transfected T cells.
 

schultz

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haidut said:
I found those studies Ray is talking about on PubMed but I can't find their actual text. They were published in Nature, so if someone can find the full text it would be really helpful.

You've got me really curious now, so hopefully somebody finds more information on this! :shock:

I found this text as to why the study was stopped...

"CRIA decided to halt its ongoing study of the anti-HIV effects of aspirin, at the recommendation of our Data Safety Monitoring Board (DSMB) and the study's Principal Investigator Dr. Donald Kotler. Preliminary evidence of virus reduction, however, was sufficiently promising that CRIA is now investigating a related chemical, called Trilisate, that may be less toxic. The decision to stop the aspirin study was based on evidence of slight reductions in hematocrit, a measure of the number of red blood cells, among patients taking high-dose aspirin, as well as modest increases in liver enzymes. Due to our concern about these toxicities, which are common with regular use of highdose aspirin, we had built additional safety reviews into the study from the start. Patients experiencing adverse events were taken off treatment as a precaution, and all laboratory values returned to normal following treatment."

This talks about the study before it started.
 

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burtlancast

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According to your article, they used 4g aspirin on 46 asymptomatic AIDS infected people, for 2 months, and it's really unclear why they stopped.

I wonder what willow bark, with it's much lower rate of side-effects compared to aspirin, would do in the same situation ?

burtlancast said:
Here's what the University of Maryland has to say:
Some studies show willow is as effective as aspirin for reducing pain and inflammation (but not fever), and at a much lower dose.
White willow appears to bring pain relief more slowly than aspirin, but its effects may last longer.
Scientists think that may be due to other compounds in the herb, like polyphenols and flavonoids, who have antioxidant, fever reducing, antiseptic, and immune boosting properties.

http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/willow-bark

viewtopic.php?t=5516
 
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