11-keto DHT - Adrenosterone Derivative For Lab/R&D Use

[Miggie]

I tried out a few dose quanties and landed on that. Yeah more times on the toilet and volume of poop. But not sure if it is from the 11-keto

I had the same thing as well. at doses of 10mg i would experience hyperthyroidism.

 

[PUTFOT]

I had the same thing as well. at doses of 10mg i would experience hyperthyroidism.

What symptoms of hyperthyroidism?

 

[Miggie]

What symptoms of hyperthyroidism?

I was burning fat at a rapid rate and i had like 8+ bowelmovements every day

 

[PUTFOT]

Major concern:
I know no one knows the absolute answer but I'd like to hear thoughts. Is it possible that 11 keto is displacing regular endogenous dht leading to a shortage of dht metabolites such as androsterone (taken that 11 keto has no downstream conversion)? How would 11 keto affect endogenous dht, will it increase it by estrogen inhibiting, cortisol inhibting, t increasing, etc,, or will it lower it by a negative feedback loop indicating sufficient dht levels (even though 11 keto differs from regular dht)?

@haidut @Such_Saturation @Gl;itch.e @DaveFoster @johnwester130 @Stryker @ecstatichamster and others.

 

[PUTFOT]

11 keto dht is secreted by the adrenals and its a 5-ar metabolite of 11OH-AED. Activates the wild type androgen receptor just like regular dht does (96% of DHT at 1 nM).

Looks like 11 keto is a downstream metabolite of 110H-T and a direct metabolite of 110H-dht and 11k-t.

"Importantly, the significant activity of 11OH-5α-DHT and 11K-5α-DHT in activating the wild type AR suggests that inhibiting the enzymes unique to the production of these metabolites may significantly decrease the overall androgenicity of the CRPC tumor microenvironment and thereby improve clinical outcomes."

http://www.ijbs.com/v10p0602.htm

 

[PUTFOT]

Major concern:
I know no one knows the absolute answer but I'd like to hear thoughts. Is it possible that 11 keto is displacing regular endogenous dht leading to a shortage of dht metabolites such as androsterone (taken that 11 keto has no downstream conversion)? How would 11 keto affect endogenous dht, will it increase it by estrogen inhibiting, cortisol inhibting, t increasing, etc,, or will it lower it by a negative feedback loop indicating sufficient dht levels (even though 11 keto differs from regular dht)?

@haidut @Such_Saturation @Gl;itch.e @DaveFoster @johnwester130 @Stryker @ecstatichamster and others.

11k-dht and regular dht might both be able to bind to the AR uncompetitively. There will still be downstream metabolites from DHT as its unaffected by 11k-dht. 11k-dht stimulates 5-ar and by the other mechanisms (estrogen inhibiting, etc) should even increase endogenous dht.

The only question left is: is 11k-dht competing with dht at the AR receptor or can they both enter the AR at once?

I don't think people are realizing that 11k-dht might just be THE strongest androgen ever, stronger than dht itself (thought be the the strongest androgen).

 

[bdawg]

11k-dht and regular dht might both be able to bind to the AR uncompetitively. There will still be downstream metabolites from DHT as its unaffected by 11k-dht. 11k-dht stimulates 5-ar and by the other mechanisms (estrogen inhibiting, etc) should even increase endogenous dht.

The only question left is: is 11k-dht competing with dht at the AR receptor or can they both enter the AR at once?

I don't think people are realizing that 11k-dht might just be THE strongest androgen ever, stronger than dht itself (thought be the the strongest androgen).

Hey @PUTFOT what do you think is better for health, dht staying unsynthesised in the bloodstream, or being converted to 3a diol and 3 beta diol by 3a hsd. Apparently the metabolites are what contribute to DHTs effects on the brain, but don't hit the AR much themselves. 3 beta diol hits ER

Also, look what I found "Androgens, including testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT), are known to downregulate the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, and this has been found to be due in part or full to their conversion into 3β-diol rather than to activation of the AR.[13][14][15]" so it seems DHT doesnt downregulate HPA via hitting the AR, rather by the bodys detection of metabolite levels. Nicotine is a known inhibitor of the HSDs

 

[PUTFOT]

Hey @PUTFOT what do you think is better for health, dht staying unsynthesised in the bloodstream, or being converted to 3a diol and 3 beta diol by 3a hsd. Apparently the metabolites are what contribute to DHTs effects on the brain, but don't hit the AR much themselves. 3 beta diol hits ER

Also, look what I found "Androgens, including testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT), are known to downregulate the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, and this has been found to be due in part or full to their conversion into 3β-diol rather than to activation of the AR.[13][14][15]" so it seems DHT doesnt downregulate HPA via hitting the AR, rather by the bodys detection of metabolite levels. Nicotine is a known inhibitor of the HSDs

Both. Some dht in blood and some metabolized sounds ideal.

The metabolites stimulate 5-ar though dht stimulates 5-ar most. Excess breakdown of dht into 3adiols like by alcohol does lower dht production altogether.

 

[bdawg]

Both. Some dht in blood and some metabolized sounds ideal.

The metabolites stimulate 5-ar though dht stimulates 5-ar most. Excess breakdown of dht into 3adiols like by alcohol does lower dht production altogether.

well said. avoiding alcohol and utilising nicotine chewing gum/snuff once in a while seems to be a good way to prevent DHT related downregulation, allowing you to keep higher levels of DHT floating around then your genetic potential allows

 

[PUTFOT]

well said. avoiding alcohol and utilising nicotine chewing gum/snuff once in a while seems to be a good way to prevent DHT related downregulation, allowing you to keep higher levels of DHT floating around then your genetic potential allows

A low body fat build prevents dht breakdown to 3adiols as well.

This is an interesting read on dht. http://anabolicapex.com/2016/03/05/dihydrotestosterone-dht/

 

[PUTFOT]

Anybody use both 11k and regular dht? How do they compare?

 

[Ron J]

A low body fat build prevents dht breakdown to 3adiols as well.

This is an interesting read on dht. http://anabolicapex.com/2016/03/05/dihydrotestosterone-dht/

Didn't know you posted the same article. I made a thread about it, and asked the following: "What's your opinion about nicotine? In a thread that I read here, someone claimed that it may help keep higher levels of DHT. I think he may have stated to use it weekly.
Also, there seems to be some confusion about boron; some claim that it helps increase DHT, others claim that it raises estrogen/estradiol."

 

[PUTFOT]

Didn't know you posted the same article. I made a thread about it, and asked the following: "What's your opinion about nicotine? In a thread that I read here, someone claimed that it may help keep higher levels of DHT. I think he may have stated to use it weekly.
Also, there seems to be some confusion about boron; some claim that it helps increase DHT, others claim that it raises estrogen/estradiol."

Nicotine is well-studied for those properties. Not sure about health effects though.

I think the effects from boron are dependent on body context.

Regarding boron: http://anabolicapex.com/2016/08/06/boron-and-testosterone/

 

[Ron J]

Nicotine is well-studied for those properties. Not sure about health effects though.

I think the effects from boron are dependent on body context.

Regarding boron: http://anabolicapex.com/2016/08/06/boron-and-testosterone/

What worries me about nicotine is the reduced circulation.

 

[PUTFOT]

What worries me about nicotine is the reduced circulation.

Aside from a slight pro-dopamine feeling, I don't really notice much if any dht effects from tobacco.

 

[Ron J]

Aside from a slight pro-dopamine feeling, I don't really notice much if any dht effects from tobacco.

That's disappointing. In that case, I may just try the BCAA-Tyrosine combo.

 

[BeLiKeWater]

Hello I made a purchase in IdealLabs, unfortunatly I didnt seen this compound, and Im very interested because my rat took finasteride and developed pfs, would be nice to experiment with this compound.

Greeetings

 

[RKIII]

Nicotine is well-studied for those properties. Not sure about health effects though.

I remember reading something that said that tobacco have have anti estrogenic properties as well. Not so much nicotine but the other alkaloids present in tobacco itself. Or they synergize with nicotine to inhibit aromatase. I don't think you can achieve the same effect using gum or patches are you can by using tobacco itself.

In theory it would be: Consuming actual tobacco products --> Aromatase Inhibition --> Less conversion of T to E --> Increased chances of T converting to DHT.

 

[Wagner83]

Hello I made a purchase in IdealLabs, unfortunatly I didnt seen this compound, and Im very interested because my rat took finasteride and developed pfs, would be nice to experiment with this compound.

Greeetings

Not pushing for anything but pregnenolone and/or androsterone (5a-dhp too but far less evidence of safety) may be better suited.

 

[PUTFOT]

So is there any benefit to say using 1 drop 11keto 1 drop andro 1 drop 5adhp vs just 3 drops of either one?