skycop00

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Agree wholeheartedly about less is more...thought I would start at 100 / week since I don't know how much cream was really being absorbed...don't think I can do the aspirin internally but might try aspercream? Just got my 28s from diabetes 4less in the mail yesterday. Can't wait to try one out with 50 mgs tomorrow morning. Thanks for the details..much appreciated.
Yeah for sure sure...best of luck!!!
 

PUTFOT

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Bullet points, main differences between 11 keto dht and androsterone? In the same dosage which of the two is stronger?
 

Gl;itch.e

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Bullet points, main differences between 11 keto dht and androsterone? In the same dosage which of the two is stronger?
IMO it depends what you are looking to get out of it

Androsterone definitely increases temperature markedly in me. Libido and morning wood normal or lower than normal. More irritable emotions.
11 keto no effect on temp noticed. Better mood, libido, morning wood etc.
 
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haidut

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IMO it depends what you are looking to get out of it

Androsterone definitely increases temperature markedly in me. Libido and morning wood normal or lower than normal. More irritable emotions.
11 keto no effect on temp noticed. Better mood, libido, morning wood etc.

This. I think the effects of the two steroids are different. Androsterone seems to be more systemic and pro-metabolic. The 11-keto DHT, due to the ketone group at C-11 seems to be better at lowering cortisol and is a more potent agonist of and androgen receptor, with much longer half life than androsterone. In high enough doses (15mg+ daily) androsterone starts to match the 11-keto DHT in terms of androgenicity but I think it can't match it in terms of cortisol reduction as it is not a direct inhibitor of 11b-HSD1 (but 11-keto DHT is).
 

PUTFOT

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IMO it depends what you are looking to get out of it
Androgenic effects: well-being and cognitive and anti-estrogenic effects.

Libido and morning wood normal or lower than normal.
Why do you think that is? Androsterone is pro libido and converts to dht, which is also pro libido.

This. I think the effects of the two steroids are different. Androsterone seems to be more systemic and pro-metabolic. The 11-keto DHT, due to the ketone group at C-11 seems to be better at lowering cortisol and is a more potent agonist of and androgen receptor, with much longer half life than androsterone. In high enough doses (15mg+ daily) androsterone starts to match the 11-keto DHT in terms of androgenicity but I think it can't match it in terms of cortisol reduction as it is not a direct inhibitor of 11b-HSD1 (but 11-keto DHT is).
Which of the two is more anti-estrogenic?
 

PUTFOT

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Gussing 11 keto dht would be more suppressive. Does it have significant effects in small doses?
 

Gl;itch.e

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Gussing 11 keto dht would be more suppressive. Does it have significant effects in small doses?
Yep. 5mg a day is as much as I went and experienced only positive stuff from it paired with 2.5-5mg DHEA.
Androgenic effects: well-being and cognitive and anti-estrogenic effects.


Why do you think that is? Androsterone is pro libido and converts to dht, which is also pro libido.
In theory, but perhaps it requires more Androsterone than is good to take to get the same effects. As I mentioned I can't take more than 2-3mg in a dose and a max of 2 doses a day. So perhaps its not enough to have the same conversion into DHT etc that would make it as beneficial as straight 11-keto DHT

Which of the two is more anti-estrogenic?
Couldn't say. I think they are both potently anti-cortisol though. Androsterone maybe more so as I have noticed slight increase in joint (wrist) pain which I didn't get from 11-keto DHT.
 
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haidut

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@haidut Is 11 keto dht extracted from fish? Is it a naturally occurring hormone in fish?

It is a naturally occurring hormone both in fish and in humans. If you look at the studies in the original thread they discuss the presence of this steroid in the prostate.
And no, our product is not extracted from fish. I would have noted that on the label as some people have allergies to fish and need to know that before using.
 

Gl;itch.e

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Ever take it on it's own?
No. I was already using 2.5-5mg a day of DHEA for months before I tried 11-Keto. I used this combo for many more months before I dropped the 11-Keto to try Androsterone.

Why?
Already talked about this in earlier posts.
 
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The first time my rat took (3 drops I think) ketoDHT there was an extreme increase in temperature... later on had to go all the way to 10mg+ to notice heat.
 

Gl;itch.e

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The first time my rat took (3 drops I think) ketoDHT there was an extreme increase in temperature... later on had to go all the way to 10mg+ to notice heat.
To be fair to this could be why I never saw much temp increase with 11-keto. I titrated the doses up very slowly starting at 1 drops for a couple of weeks then an extra drop a week until a max of 5 drops. Whereas with the Androsterone subject started with 5 drops since it was mentioned that it should be a little less androgenic than the 11-keto DHT.
 

Wagner83

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The first time my rat took (3 drops I think) ketoDHT there was an extreme increase in temperature... later on had to go all the way to 10mg+ to notice heat.



To be fair to this could be why I never saw much temp increase with 11-keto. I titrated the doses up very slowly starting at 1 drops for a couple of weeks then an extra drop a week until a max of 5 drops. Whereas with the Androsterone subject started with 5 drops since it was mentioned that it should be a little less androgenic than the 11-keto DHT.


Did both of you still have positive effects from it at the lower doses despite the absence of heat or were those mostly gone as well?
 
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I was almost worried for the rat, and also the heart rate wasn't fast at all...

Did both of you still have positive effects from it at the lower doses despite the absence of heat or were those mostly gone as well?

There is a baseline androgenic effect to which you get accustomed to, so it's basically like building tolerance. But even at that point, there are objective metrics that tell you that it's still doing something even staying at the low dose.
 

Gl;itch.e

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Did both of you still have positive effects from it at the lower doses despite the absence of heat or were those mostly gone as well?
I really liked what 11-keto DHT did for the subject. There were no reports of adverse symptoms and quite a lot of subtle benefits.
 

d1d2

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With 11-keto DHT, my test subject never slept so well since he was a teen. Consistent and trustworthy results with a drop every two days. Last night, he slept about 11 hours with a holiday schedule. No restlessness and quality is generally great with few wakeups. Androsterone is helpful to him too but he needs to spend more time with it, isolated, to see how it compares.
 

Mjhl85

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With 11-keto DHT, my test subject never slept so well since he was a teen. Consistent and trustworthy results with a drop every two days. Last night, he slept about 11 hours with a holiday schedule. No restlessness and quality is generally great with few wakeups. Androsterone is helpful to him too but he needs to spend more time with it, isolated, to see how it compares.
Taken right before bed or earlier in the day?
 

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