101 Year Old Fred Kummerow Exercised A Lot And Eats Whole Grains, Oatmeal, And Vegetables

[heartnhands]

I'm always surprised how people on this forum quote the Ray Peat they want to believe. They forget the bit where he says, "There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches."

I think when Peat says "starch" he is most probably referring to foods like "cooked whole wheat grains and oatmeal", and not actually referring to potatoes that have been cut up and cooked in such a way as to substantially reduce the starch content. And what about the different types of starch? What about the water content of potatoes - isn't that more nutritious than dry old whole wheat? I think Peat could be a lot clearer about what he defines as starch in terms of actual food products, but that would limit the degree to which we should all think for ourselves.

Not entirely related, but years ago, I used to eat four eggs a day without fail for breakfast with butter and a cup of rice. I was testing the Heart Foundation's claim that people would acquire high cholesterol if they ate more than 1 egg per day. After about six months of this behaviour, my cholesterol dropped so low that the doctor said to me it was lower than what statins could maximally hope to achieve for people with high cholesterol. I'm not really an egg eater anymore, because I doubt the value of consuming high amounts of choline, limited quantities of vitamin A, and a not insubstantial dose of PUFA of about 4 - 6 grams with every serve (these are Australian eggs I'm speaking of).

In recent days I am amused to see my diet beginning to resemble that of a middle-eastern cuisine: potatoes, dates, strained yoghurt, honey, small amounts of lamb/chicken (strictly once a day or less), coffee, spiced vegetables (including squash), whole milk, limited quantities of OJ (only 1 cup), limited added fats, and no supplements! I think Ray has been quoted speaking about the longevity of people from Azerbaijan, so maybe there's something in it. I've attached my current cronometer output for reference.

Congratulations on your health! I can't read your results on my devise but I trust they show something significant. Would you mind explaining how you came to buy and use the tool? I've always wondered about gas spectoscepy and it's ability to be used for diagnosis, I met someone who sold them and claimed his best clients were medical doctors in Germany.

 

[postman]

Hardly in the same category. There are a lot of worse things to eat than well cooked porridge.
There might be some downsides to well cooked oats, but they are non-the-less low fat fairly easy to digest carbs with fibre that probably helps carry out some estrogen.
As opposed to mayonaise, which is very high fat and often high PUFA.

If you eat just 100g of oats you've already broken the 4 grams of unsaturated fat limit. The saturated fat to unsaturated fat ratio is like 1:4 in oats.

 

[EIRE24]

How can oatmeal ever possibly be on a ray peat inspired diet? I mean commercial eggs are already pushing it but oatmeal? You might as well start eating maoynaise

I think that statement is ridiculous. Oatmeal isnt ideal but you see millions of people eating it daily especially all the gym go-ers and bodybuilders and they seem in very good health. No one eats mayonaise in large quantities and if they did, you'd see their health deteriorate by the day.

 

[tara]

If you eat just 100g of oats you've already broken the 4 grams of unsaturated fat limit. The saturated fat to unsaturated fat ratio is like 1:4 in oats.

According to nutritiondata:
100g rolled oats ~ 2.3g PUFA
1/2 cup <1g PUFA
Also about 13% protein, and fibre that may feed bacteria, but may also help carry away estrogen (and maybe also some of it's own PUFA?)/
I don't know how to assess nutrition data's stats - maybe your source is more reliable/better verified?
I'm not recommending oats as optimal health food for everyone, but there are a lot of worse choices.

 

[New_to_Peat]

I guess if you count the monounsaturated fat as PUFA, then it's 4 grams. Of course, 4 grams of PUFA seems like an arbitrary limit. Some people might want to stay under 2 grams or less, others might be happy at 10 or less.

Regardless if exercise appears to be a waste of energy for some, the interesting thing from this is that it's actually hard to find people that live that long in a sedentary way..

I like exercise/activity. The distinction between the two is important for some. Regardless, training year in and year out for marathons probably isn't great for health, but going for walks, or bike rides, or kayaking with friends and family out in nature? Even if it is slightly damaging to my physical health (and I don't believe it is), it's great for my mind.

 

[tca300]

It seems like he mostly swam and road his bicycle for exercise. Which both happen to be concentric based muscle contractions, which is according to Peat, and studies, healthy and restorative to the mitochondria. I don't know how he drank all that whole milk... I don't care for it at all.

 

[kaybb]

Looks like Fred's diet is missing corn oil, soy oil, canola oil, margarine, etc...

 

[chispas]

Congratulations on your health! I can't read your results on my devise but I trust they show something significant. Would you mind explaining how you came to buy and use the tool? I've always wondered about gas spectoscepy and it's ability to be used for diagnosis, I met someone who sold them and claimed his best clients were medical doctors in Germany.

Not sure what you mean sorry.

I just think everyone should really try and listen to their own bodies, use Ray Peat as a bit of a lens/rule of thumb, but not as a rigid rule book. I think we all have the ability to do well within a spectrum of different nutritional and environmental conditions, we just need to find what works for us. Everyone has tolerances to different things. You have to keep a log and just keep checking in with yourself.

Ask yourself the classic Simone Weil question, "what are you going through?" and just keep a record of how you feel, and what you are consuming. I think the trick is to not do anything that even slightly contributes to a negative response in your body. It's tricky to judge this, but you can use a combination of experiential, subjective feelings, body temp/heart rate, and a blood test. Personally I find bowel movements to be a more important metric of general health than anything - if you have uncomfortable, irregular, or varied bowel movements, this could be a signal that your body isn't too happy - although it can take a couple of days for the 'weather' to change in the Department of Bowel Movements, so you have to be patient. I sometimes wonder about models/actors eating all that chia seed and kale health crap that they consume - all that seed/nut/grain fibre is just brutal to pass!

People on this forum have criticised me for changing my diet around on a whim, and although their criticisms are correct, they don't speak to my actual experience. My experience tells me that if the effects of a nutritional change are immediate and negative, and reproducible, I should not persist with it, and instead continue to slightly change the diet until I get a good balance. Persisting with foods that upset you is tedious and silly, and can make things worse. Think about why the food is bothering you, do some research, or refer to Ray Peat, and then make an intelligent change in your behaviour.

In fact, if there is one thing that is sort of missing from the Ray Peat Forum, it is a troubleshooting guide to experimenting on your own body in this subjective way.

 

[chispas]

If you look at what all of the centenarians and super-centenarians seem to have in common, they all seem pretty particular about what they like to eat and what they don't. And they seem to just continually consume these same things as part of a fairly consistent, ongoing routine.

Ray Peat has found some good reasons to consume milk and orange juice, limit meat and eliminate PUFA, drink coffee, keep sugar levels and protein levels up, and get enough anti-inflammatory compounds to mitigate any red herrings that he might accidentally encounter as part of living in a volatile urban environment. This is all good thinking - theoretical of course. In practice, things are going to be different for everyone and this forum proves that.

I travelled to Vietnam recently, a place where the average life expectancy is about 76 years. 8 years lower than the USA at 82. Nevertheless, there is not a fat person to be seen there. I had to really scrutinise the crowds of people around me in Hanoi to find someone who looked big, and if I did, they were always a tourist, not a local. You would be shocked to know that PUFA is consumed in abundance in Vietnam. Oxidised, old, smelly fish sauce on every ******* thing there, and in almost every single dish! And not to mention the addition of MSG in great quantities that is sprinkled on for extra flavour! I mean, I even heard someone complain that they ate some MSG-free chicken skewers and it just didn't taste as good...

It was practically impossible to avoid PUFA in Vietnam. I even attended a 'supermarket' with imported packaged goods, and again, was there anything for sale that didn't contain PUFA? I ended up buying jelly beans for a snack, because there was literally nothing else. By that stage I was also tired of drinking soda.

One tour operator did tell me that when the men in Vietnam want to feel strong and tough, they go and eat oysters...so maybe the zinc content lifts their testosterone temporarily.

 

[Braveheart]

Not sure what you mean sorry.

I just think everyone should really try and listen to their own bodies, use Ray Peat as a bit of a lens/rule of thumb, but not as a rigid rule book. I think we all have the ability to do well within a spectrum of different nutritional and environmental conditions, we just need to find what works for us. Everyone has tolerances to different things. You have to keep a log and just keep checking in with yourself.

Ask yourself the classic Simone Weil question, "what are you going through?" and just keep a record of how you feel, and what you are consuming. I think the trick is to not do anything that even slightly contributes to a negative response in your body. It's tricky to judge this, but you can use a combination of experiential, subjective feelings, body temp/heart rate, and a blood test. Personally I find bowel movements to be a more important metric of general health than anything - if you have uncomfortable, irregular, or varied bowel movements, this could be a signal that your body isn't too happy - although it can take a couple of days for the 'weather' to change in the Department of Bowel Movements, so you have to be patient. I sometimes wonder about models/actors eating all that chia seed and kale health crap that they consume - all that seed/nut/grain fibre is just brutal to pass!

People on this forum have criticised me for changing my diet around on a whim, and although their criticisms are correct, they don't speak to my actual experience. My experience tells me that if the effects of a nutritional change are immediate and negative, and reproducible, I should not persist with it, and instead continue to slightly change the diet until I get a good balance. Persisting with foods that upset you is tedious and silly, and can make things worse. Think about why the food is bothering you, do some research, or refer to Ray Peat, and then make an intelligent change in your behaviour.

In fact, if there is one thing that is sort of missing from the Ray Peat Forum, it is a troubleshooting guide to experimenting on your own body in this subjective way.

Excellent comments....

 

[PTP]

I know it's an old thread, and Dr Kummerow's exercise has already been covered positively, but I think it's important to point out that he exercises every day. Someone who does that is not going to push their body to stressful limits because they need to be fresh the next day. Cycling 2 miles is pretty low intensity - that's a reasonable walking distance, unless he's sprinting it or going up hills. Swimming can also be leisurely, which I imagine it is if he's doing it for an hour. In ayurveda they recommend exercise every day, but never beyond 50% of your capability.

 

[Xisca]

How can oatmeal ever possibly be on a ray peat inspired diet? I mean commercial eggs are already pushing it but oatmeal? You might as well start eating mayonaise

I think that statement is ridiculous. Oatmeal isnt ideal but you see millions of people eating it daily especially all the gym go-ers and bodybuilders and they seem in very good health. No one eats mayonaise in large quantities and if they did, you'd see their health deteriorate by the day.

1) Scotish people did fine with what they had, oat especially. Maybe a diet is a whole, and also fine when you ate it all your life.
I personnaly condemn only processed food in a way that it is deteriorated at chemical level + bad ways of cooking = home processing.
2) For the same reasons, I see nothing wrong with mayonnaise, and I see it even good!
- It depends on the ingredients.... I have made mayonnaise with ghee and coconut oil, appart from olive oil. I always use fresh eggs and eat it the same day, that is not the same as "from the bottle".
There is a HUGE advantage of mayonnaise over any oil: it is an emulsion, which saves the job of doing so with bilis.
That is also why sesame seeds or sunflower seed are not as bad as their oil or "butter", which have their oils extracted from the natural emulsion of the seed.

 

[dbh25]

According to nutritiondata:
100g rolled oats ~ 2.3g PUFA
1/2 cup <1g PUFA
Also about 13% protein, and fibre that may feed bacteria, but may also help carry away estrogen (and maybe also some of it's own PUFA?)/
I don't know how to assess nutrition data's stats - maybe your source is more reliable/better verified?

My bag of Bob's Red Mill steel cut oats has per 44g (.25 cup) 3 g fat, .5 g saturated, 0g trans fat. Does that mean 2.5g is all PUFA? This is one serving for me.

 

[PeatThemAll]

My bag of Bob's Red Mill steel cut oats has per 44g (.25 cup) 3 g fat, .5 g saturated, 0g trans fat. Does that mean 2.5g is all PUFA? This is one serving for me.

FWIW, steer clear of Quaker Oats: Quaker Oats sued for use of glyphosate in '100% natural' products

 

[dbh25]

FWIW, steer clear of Quaker Oats: Quaker Oats sued for use of glyphosate in '100% natural' products

Thanks for posting, seems like you have to be skeptical from any product at the store. The Bob's Red Mill is labeled organic and gluten free.

 

[encerent]

He's also probably not running marathons, doing triathlons when he's talking about exercise. He might just be doing a relaxing walk outside for 30-60 mins a day.

 

[paymanz]

Decent protein and carb intake.fruit , vegetables ,dairy.

Pufa intake is not peaty but seems lower than average.

 

[Peater Piper]

My bag of Bob's Red Mill steel cut oats has per 44g (.25 cup) 3 g fat, .5 g saturated, 0g trans fat. Does that mean 2.5g is all PUFA? This is one serving for me.

Cronometer lists a quarter cup of steel cut oats as having 2.6 grams of fat. .9 PUFA, .8 mono, and .4 saturated. The numbers don't quite add up, but I assume you're getting about a gram to 1.25 g of PUFA. In the Peat scheme of things, that's a high PUFA food, but if your total PUFA remains around 4 or 5 grams then I wouldn't fret over it. Plus oats are known as a good bile binder, so some of that fat probably avoids absorption.

 

[dbh25]

Cronometer lists a quarter cup of steel cut oats as having 2.6 grams of fat. .9 PUFA, .8 mono, and .4 saturated. The numbers don't quite add up, but I assume you're getting about a gram to 1.25 g of PUFA. In the Peat scheme of things, that's a high PUFA food, but if your total PUFA remains around 4 or 5 grams then I wouldn't fret over it. Plus oats are known as a good bile binder, so some of that fat probably avoids absorption.

Thanks for the info. I eat eggs as well, that container lists for 1 egg: 5 g fat, 1.5 saturated. Is that 3.5 g PUFA per egg?
I have steel cut oats a few times per week, and almost never any high PUFA seed oils. I seem to digest the steel cut oats well.

 

[Peater Piper]

Thanks for the info. I eat eggs as well, that container lists for 1 egg: 5 g fat, 1.5 saturated. Is that 3.5 g PUFA per egg?
I have steel cut oats a few times per week, and almost never any high PUFA seed oils. I seem to digest the steel cut oats well.

Here's the info for eggs. Hopefully most of that 3.5 grams is monounsaturated fat, but it really depends on what the chickens are being fed, so I don't know how trustworthy the nutrition information is. You're probably getting more PUFA from the eggs than from the oats, though with the oats you're getting phytic acid and whatnot, but it doesn't sound like oats are a staple and you seem to do well with them so enjoy.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/111/2