10-methoxy-harmalan ,an anti-serotonin chemical?

Jam

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Jean-Bernard Fourtillan was recently released by authorities from a psychiatric ward in which he was illegally imprisoned late last year after making some non-mainstream statements about SARS-CoV-2.
 

Drareg

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So, just a few quick comments. I have already tried 10-methoxyharmalan (10-MH) myself, and and off for a few months. The anti-serotonin effects are quite pronounced and can be felt at doses as low as 100mcg. This basically matches what the study on 10-MH serotonin antagonism found, as LSD is used clinically in doses of around 200mcg-400mcg daily but such doses are used to induce hallucinations. The anti-serotonin effects of LSD manifest even at doses as low as 50mcg, which is something studies with the closely related chemical lisuride also confirmed - i.e. while lisuride is used clinically in doses around 200mcg, doses in the 50mcg range still powerfully lower prolactin, while avoiding issues such as nausea and hypotension commonly seen with those chemicals. So, if 10-MH works similar to LSD but need 2-fold higher doses to produce the same effects, this means 100mcg should be able to match the effects of 50mcg lisuride but without the nausea, dizziness, etc. That is basically what I experienced when trying it.
The anti-serotonin effects (clear vision, stress-free digestion (even of starch), improved mood/cognition, relaxation, etc) of a single 200mcg dose of 10-MH usually last up to a day for me. Nausea does not seem to occur unless doses >1mg are reached but such high doses are quite unnecessary IMO as 100mcg-200mcg work quite well. I have tried up to 5mg as single doses and there are NO hallucinations, at least for me. Btw, despite LSD having a unique reputation as hallucinogen, virtually all ergot derivatives can cause hallucinations (and tremors) if used in high doses and/or for extended periods of time.
We have already started work on synthesizing it, so if the process is efficient and produces decent outputs, we should be able to release it in a month or so. We don't know yet if this would be commercially feasible. The papers listing its synthesis routes claim it should be relatively easy 1-2 step process but we have encountered several times in the past that published synthesis routes do not actually work as described. So, there is a good chance we will release this, but it is not guaranteed until we confirm the synthesis is possible and affordable (both in materials and manpower). In the meantime, you can get it from Sigma or other vendors selling it. I have not seen any indication that it is a controlled chemical in any country and all chemical vendors that sell it, do so without any restrictions or requiring any licenses.
From what is available in the scientific literature, 10-MH seems to be an anti-metabolite of both melatonin and serotonin and is present endogenously in the body. In other words, out bodies synthesized it from melatonin probably as part of a negative feedback mechanism to put the brakes on excessive serotonin/melatonin production/effects. Finally, 10-MH is structurally very similar to the 5-HT3 antagonist ondansetron, which IMO corroborates its effects as a serotonin antagonist, especially considering that the initial idea for developing ondansetron came precisely from work with the beta-carbolines / alkaloids like harmine, harmaline, and harmalan.
Also, the optimal doses of ondansetron for systemic health seem to be in the 0.5mg-1mg daily range (based on animal studies, and despite its clinical usage in 4mg doses) and this is what Ray has also been suggesting to people in regards to ondansetron dosing. So, the optimal dosing for 10-MH is probably in that same range (0,5mg-1mg daily), but in my experience even 100mcg daily produces noticeable anti-serotonin effects.


@Drareg @James b @Mauritio @MeatOrchid @Waynish @jmojo
‘I’m finding
I’m finding this quite androgenic, I’ve been using 300mcg, I never really noticed this with lisuride, metergoline or cypro.
There are no noticeable side effects at these dosages for 2 weeks, I may up the dose for science, how were you at 5mg?
I may try 1mg for a bit just to see but 300 mcg is highly effective.
 
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haidut

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I’m finding this quite androgenic, I’ve been using 300mcg, I never really noticed this with lisuride, metergoline or cypro.
There are no noticeable side effects at these dosages for 2 weeks, I may up the dose for science, how were you at 5mg?
I may try 1mg for a bit just to see but 300 mcg is highly effective.

Awesome, thanks for the feedback!
 
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Mauritio

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So when will it be released? Its been so long.
Well , Georgi is back from Bulgaria, so if he was able to take it with him , I guess we will see a release in the next 1 or 2 months...
 

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I’m finding this quite androgenic, I’ve been using 300mcg, I never really noticed this with lisuride, metergoline or cypro.
There are no noticeable side effects at these dosages for 2 weeks, I may up the dose for science, how were you at 5mg?
I may try 1mg for a bit just to see but 300 mcg is highly effective.
Where did you get this from?

I am willing to compare its effects to those of traditional ayahuasca.
 

Drareg

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I will venture a guess that 6-MEO harmalan doesn’t inhibit MAO-A in low dosages, I know harmaline does inhibit MAO-A, for example I’m very sensitive to methylene blue because of this, if I take a few hundred mcg of methylene blue for a few days I notice increased serotonin like symptoms, I can take 1 drop of oxidation occasionally and it’s beneficial but that’s it for me.
 

Drareg

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Where did you get this from?

I am willing to compare its effects to those of traditional ayahuasca.
I got a sample.
Your effect is pretty full on if that’s the case, I didn’t notice anything trippy like, did you take a lot?
 

Makrosky

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I got a sample.
Your effect is pretty full on if that’s the case, I didn’t notice anything trippy like, did you take a lot?
Well the idea is to get the benefits without having to trip. Just like with lsd derivatives (lisuride, etc.). Or I am not sure I am following you...
 

Drareg

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Well the idea is to get the benefits without having to trip. Just like with lsd derivatives (lisuride, etc.). Or I am not sure I am following you...
I thought it may offer those effects but it seemed more androgenic in effect, lowering serotonin can do this but it was more pronounced than anything I tried in the past.
 

Makrosky

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I thought it may offer those effects but it seemed more androgenic in effect, lowering serotonin can do this but it was more pronounced than anything I tried in the past.
Is haidut still working on releasing it as an idelabs supp?
 
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Any updates on this?
Unfortunately danny didn't ask about it on the recent idealabs update on his podcast.
But maybe @haidut can give us an update here ?
I think this must be one of the most anticipated idealabs products ever .
 

Momado965

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Unfortunately danny didn't ask about it on the recent idealabs update on his podcast.
But maybe @haidut can give us an update here ?
I think this must be one of the most anticipated idealabs products ever .
Bump. We La communautè Ray Peat, anti serotonin exploiters and sugar admirers herby rally and DEMANDE a @haidut by popular demand reply! "IdeaLabs! IdeaLabs! IdeaLabs!" - Crowds chanting enthusiastically.
 

golder

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Please can we get some kind of update Haidut, we’re all extremely excited to try this and benefit from your hard work!
 

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