1. Question About CoViD 19 / 2. Question About George

[Runenight201]

Why is it the mindset of the right to focus on trying to debunk the race narrative which is arguably the lesser important context while failing to engage in the much more important aspect which is a system that has beaten down and dehumanized a large portion of the population?

I would be much more on board if the narrative surrounded socioeconomic disparity as opposed to race being the focal point of the issue. Skin color doesn’t determine our lot in life, but rather our socioeconomic class and family we were born into. The former I see as the root issue and the latter an incorrect paradigm to view state of affairs. Race used to be much more important when there were actual laws in place specifically against people of color. However, it has dwindled now as people of color are legally equal. No one has a problem with a black military member, black cop, or black lawyer, or black judge, because they have assimilated into the major power structure and act accordingly within it to not cause disruption and further reinforce its existence.

In order for anyone to ascend in such a power structure, they have to have developed and learned how to behave within the societal system at large in order to cohesively interact with it and not cause friction. If there is a lower percentage of any given race being unable to develop their youth along the same trajectories that have been conventionally laid out for the western human to move through, then they will inevitably move into the lesser roles in society, working occupations that require less ability, responsibility, and power. This then would reinforce stereotypes of certain races. To remove a stereotype, the conditions that caused it would have to change, rather then guilt tripping those who notice the stereotype that is there.

So a good solution in my opinion, which would hold true unanimously across any race or socioeconomic state, would be to ensure a stable home structure in which there is security, nourishment, cooperation, and stability. This would allow the individuals to healthily contribute towards their own development from a personal, career, and social standpoint. Electing anyone, irrespective of their race, but who is committed to addressing those issues, would help improve the livelihoods of those at the bottom rungs of the socioeconomic ladder, and also in turn alleviate a large amount of the ills that befall those at the bottom (physical/mental sickness, crime, social exclusion, etc....)

 

[Angel45]

Why is it the mindset of the right to focus on trying to debunk the race narrative which is arguably the lesser important context while failing to engage in the much more important aspect which is a system that has beaten down and dehumanized a large portion of the population?

Nobody beats down and dehumanizes the black population more than blacks themselves. Believe me I know what it's like to come from a family that hates whites, tells you your acting white if you don't subscribe to ghetto culture or don't hold up some low life loser as a martyr for your community. The black community is coddled and given every chance but thanks to the bigotry of low expectations from white liberals they are never expected to act any better than a looting thug but still get held up as an example of someone who can't get ahead because they're skin color is holding them back. Nope it is the ****88 up violent culture that is glamorized that holds blacks back. If you don't subscribe to ghetto culture in the black community they call you a coon or sellout, its totally disgusting and why I married out.

 

[Motif]

BLM is such a hypocritical joke and everybody is on it now. And if you’re not your career will tried to be destroyed.

 

[boris]

Remember the "revolution" in Egypt?
Land Destroyer: CIA Coup-College

Egypt's "April 6 Youth Movement" recycling
US-funded revolution "props."

---

 

[jmojo]

I'm curious to what this forum will find wrong with John Oliver's new segment:

Let's see how many people stick up for facisism and totalitarianism.

 

[peateats1]

That’s because there’s more crime amongst the black community than amongst other races/communities. Statistics clearly show that.

Exactly this. They're going to target those who have the highest likelihood of committing a crime based on statistics and facts. If black people were the most docile, easy going race of people, the police would not be an issue in their communities.

 

[boris]

I'm curious to what this forum will find wrong with John Oliver's new segment:
Let's see how many people stick up for facisism and totalitarianism.

Have you read or watched any of the things posted here? I don't see people sticking up for facism. In my opinion John Oliver and you are simply focusing on the wrong thing at the moment, exactly the thing you are supposed to focus on. I have to say I don't know what will come of this in the end, but I think you are playing right into their game.

sveta_has_cartoons
"This is my last year’s cartoon about Russia but it illustrates the current moment in the USA pretty clear. What does it mean? Only that we, ordinary people, have the same problems, the same rotten system based on private property in the means of production, the same elites. Doesn’t matter what color of skin you have, what gender you belong to, how old you are, where you live. We, ordinary people, are together in this."

 

[jmojo]

Have you read or watched any of the things posted here? I don't see people sticking up for facism. In my opinion John Oliver and you are simply focusing on the wrong thing at the moment, exactly the thing you are supposed to focus on. I have to say I don't know what will come of this in the end, but I think you are playing right into their game.

View attachment 18140
sveta_has_cartoons
"This is my last year’s cartoon about Russia but it illustrates the current moment in the USA pretty clear. What does it mean? Only that we, ordinary people, have the same problems, the same rotten system based on private property in the means of production, the same elites. Doesn’t matter what color of skin you have, what gender you belong to, how old you are, where you live. We, ordinary people, are together in this."

Yes I've been keeping up with this thread and have been responding all throughout. I see lots of ignorance (IMO). I'm not going to pretend like I have it all figured out either so I welcome criticism. I'm just trying to invoke discussion. Could people help to explain what John Oliver has gotten wrong there after watching the entire clip? I'm not a fanboy either but I think that his segment there is important and brings about some good points. I'm trying to figure out what the right actually stands for when it comes to the situation we're in because I often only see them trying to debunk and discredit movements without actually providing any meaningful solutions.

My solution always has been and always will be to do whatever is possible (in a non violent manner) to hinder and dismantle the ruling class. I believe the movements and protests we are seeing today are partly of fighting police brutality but are also backed by the years of dehumanizing policies and failures brought about by the ruling class. I support that.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I don’t think that identity politics are able to dismantle the ruling class, since it was devised by them to foster their rule.
If BLM was about police brutality and police‘s role in the pyramid of oppression, why don’t they claim it ?
I read media and commentaries in English, American, German, French and Italian media. It’s all about the alleged privileges and ignorance of whites. Not social classes. White. And the usual old white men especially in some feuilleton opinions.

 

[LUH 3417]

I don’t think that identity politics are able to dismantle the ruling class, since it was devised by them to foster their rule.
If BLM was about police brutality and police‘s role in the pyramid of oppression, why don’t they claim it ?
I read media and commentaries in English, American, German, French and Italian media. It’s all about the alleged privileges and ignorance of whites. Not social classes. White. And the usual old white men especially in some feuilleton opinions.

That’s not true. Part of the movement is about defunding police forces and using the state budget for social services rather than for hiring police officers, and making it unlawful to use chokeholds or other potentially deadly moves as a police officer. So instead of cutting teachers and guidance counselors, putting a hiring freeze on the police. This is maybe not as widely circulated on the news but is a large part of the protests.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Thanks, didn’t know that. Good to know there is constructive and sane intention among the layers of idiocy and fanatism

 

[LUH 3417]

Thanks, didn’t know that. Good to know there is constructive and sane intention among the layers of idiocy and fanatism

The NYT is garbage and in no way representative of true journalism but just providing an example of mainstream news reporting on the budget aspect of the protests: De Blasio Vows for First Time to Cut Funding for the N.Y.P.D.

 

[Broken man]

... Floyd


1.

Are there studies where they took people with bad or mild CoViD19 cases and testet their blood and everything else for similarities to get a clue about what causes some people to die from it and others not even having symptoms?


I mean they shut the whole world down because of this , so such studies should be made everyWhere I guess, right ?




2. US cities are burning because of the racist cop who killed George Floyd, but why is everybody so sure that he was acting racist? Because he was white and the victim black ?
C‘mon...
I mean maybe he is racist, but maybe he is not and just a piece of s***.
Why is everybody so sure that it was racist?

I was reading he has a history of being aggressive in the past, so it should be easy to find out if he was only treating non whites bad or if he didn’t make a difference cause of skin colour!

Imaging all this ***t right now and the cop was not even acting that way because of George Floyd’s race!

To the second point, I see it that afro americans have other culture, they dont want to work like white people, are extremely lazy and try to get something from everything, feel that white people took something from them which is true but the thing is that they didnt adapt to other countries culture..... Give them Chance and they will start hell.

 

[LucyL]

The fact that a lot of people are having trouble with supporting a movement that at it's core is about fixing a corrupt policing system and a system in general that has dehumanized so many is beyond me. We don't need to argue over race. Can't we just come together and fight for a better and more just world? Instead this forum has to drag everything into some sort of conspiracy. Everyone loves to speculate with conspiracies and act like they have it all figured out.

Because this has become the solution
VIDEO: White people kneel, ask forgiveness from the black community in Third Ward

to this problem (14 minutes)
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/

I don't know what country you're from, but Americans don't kneel to anyone (except Jesus) .

 

[michael94]

That’s not true. Part of the movement is about defunding police forces and using the state budget for social services rather than for hiring police officers, and making it unlawful to use chokeholds or other potentially deadly moves as a police officer. So instead of cutting teachers and guidance counselors, putting a hiring freeze on the police. This is maybe not as widely circulated on the news but is a large part of the protests.

Well you could also cut ridiculous property taxes with the police budget reform( won't happen, obviously ). By the way police departments learned the knee technique from the IDF.

 

[Motif]

.

 

[PxD]

Latent xenophobia or racism is common in all nations, states, ethnicities, societies.

Your experience, education, intelligence, upbringing, environment as a kid and young adult will probably decide how prevalent this latency turns if at all



I‘m not American and have too much respect for the people there to pretend I understand the racial and associated conflicts in the US.
But I think regardless that this „movement“ isn’t about what you wrote. I would support such a movement. The „Core“ you mention is made up by a few sane people, the rest captures the situation for their own purpose and goals, some just to loot and violence.
Others for more refined identity propaganda and again others for political gains.

In Germany we have out of nothing all kinds of NGOs and lobby-organizations that see a golden opprtunity - claim there is structural and institutional racism everywhere (there is neither in Germany) and then you have the undercurrent of divide and conquer of the modern identity fascists.
It’s all a big mess.
I despise the murderer of Floyd, a sadistic Ashole that in no nation should be anywhere near wearing a police uniform and badge. There is undue police violence towards black and other non-whites in the US as far as I allow myself a judgement. There is overproportional crime from people of color which has structural reasons and is no accused for said police violence .... there is valid Protest and activism against that. But this is not what the current upheavals are about


Also: I‘d like to know from Americans that are honest about themselves: is there racism from people of color towards whites too? How common is that and how severe? If magically the police force was mostly PoC tomorrow, would they behave similar towards whites?
These are sincere questions - not to defenestration or derail, not to relativate - out of interest

The claim that Floyd was murdered is I think highly debatable, even if he was convicted on that charge. Both the prosecutor's and defense's pathologists agreed that Floyd died of cardiac arrest induced by a drug overdose (he was high on fentanyl at the time of arrest) and pre-existing CVD. The only point of difference is that the prosecutor's forensic pathologist (who was also the coroner) thought that the cop's manhandling of Floyd "put him over the edge". IMO this is rank speculation - he had no evidence of this, no way of knowing it was true, but he went with it and as a result put "homicide" on the death certificate. I think the manslaughter charge was valid, but I think the murder charge was a stretch and was influenced by the political climate.

There is disproportionate violent crime from blacks in the US, but that is also true almost anywhere in the world where there are blacks, including the UK, South America, and Africa itself. The excuse that it's because of "structural" reasons in the US is bull****. By that logic, Israel should be a poor ***t hole because of what the Nazis did to the Jews during WW2. Pulling a gun on a convenience store clerk and robbing the store is a choice, especially in a country like the US where work and social advancement is widely available to anyone who is willing and there is practically no economic reason to commit crime, let alone murder and rape. Contrary to popular perception that they are an uniformly oppressed minority, in some areas such as government contracting and admissions to schooling/universities, they have enjoyed significant preferential treatment (affirmative action, racial quotas, set-asides) for close to 50 years now. One small example: the public school system in the city I live in has a special program for talented students, and the bar that black students must beat to be accepted is lower than for other ethnic groups. Every large employer I've worked for (one of them was a Fortune 10 company) tries to hire and/or promote qualified non-white employees because diversity is fashionable.

Some stats on crime and police violence in the USA by race/ethnicity:
-55% of violent crime (murder, rape, etc.) is committed by black men (6% of the population).
-About 25% of people who are killed by police are black (about 200-220 per year). They are actually UNDERREPRESENTED on a percentage basis, compared to how much crime they commit. Of those 200 or so, only about 20 are unarmed, e.g. George Floyd.
-In contrast: non-Hispanic whites make up <25% of violent crime, but make up 50% of the victims of police shootings (about 500 pear year out of 1000 or so, on average). Whites are OVERREPRESENTED as victims of police shootings, compared to how much crime they commit.
-The overwhelming majority of murders of black people are by other black people (80% or more, of the ~6000 to ~7000 homicides committed by blacks every year).
-Despite being outnumbered by whites five to one, blacks murder roughly twice as many whites per year as whites who murder blacks. Either way, the numbers are relatively small (a few hundred annually, from a population of 40+ million blacks and 200+ million whites).
-Despite being outnumbered by whites five to one, 70%+ of interracial black-white crime (of any kind) is black-on-white, whereas <30% is white-on-black.
-In 2018, 2019 and I think also 2020, more cops (of any race) were killed by blacks than unarmed black civilians who were killed by the cops!
-There are 42 million blacks in the US. ~200 per year are killed by the police, that's a rate of about 0.5 per 100k per year. Per Wikipedia, there are ~900k law enforcement officers in the US. About ~20 per year are killed by blacks, that's a rate of 2.2 per 100k per year. Adjusted for population it is more than 4x more likely that a randomly selected police officer will be killed by a black person in a year than that a randomly selected black person will be killed by a cop in a year. Think about that for a second, and then think about how different what you read and see in the MSM is from that reality. If you use unarmed blacks killed by police only in the calculation, instead of all blacks killed by police, then the discrepancy becomes absurd: it's about 40x more likely for a randomly chosen cop to be killed by a black person in a year than for a randomly chosen unarmed black person to be killed by a cop. You will NEVER see numbers like this published in the NYT or Washington Post, even though anyone with an Internet connection can look them up.

This issue is HIGHLY politicized because blacks form a key voting bloc for the Democrat party (80-90% of the black vote) and the Left-leaning media propaganda/political establishment uses this topic to make sure blacks vote how they are "supposed" to vote - can't have them straying over to the Right side of the political spectrum. This alleged oppression of blacks by police doesn't exist - Leftist politicians and their allies in the media are basically taking a story about black criminality and spinning it into a story about society oppressing blacks. They are screaming about it at the top of their lungs because the Republicans/Trump won 18% of the black vote last year in the elections, which is higher than in previous years, and the Left is worried about further erosion of support. Even more interesting, I've seen surveys showing that most blacks support MORE police presence in their communities, not LESS, because they are worried about crime in their neighborhoods.

Police forces are already significantly POC. You just never see when the shooting victim is anything other than black or when the cop involved in the shooting is black, because the media largely ignores it. It might make the local news for a couple of days, and then it's swept under the rug.

I live in a very racially/ethnically mixed large city in the US and I can tell you from personal experience there is plenty of racism from blacks towards other groups, but again, the media doesn't want to talk about this because it's not part of the Official Narrative. In fairness, there are varying degrees of prejudice and racism from all the various ethnic groups here against each other, which IMO is normal and is the major reason I think multiculturalism is bound to fail over the long run.

 

[PxD]

Nobody beats down and dehumanizes the black population more than blacks themselves. Believe me I know what it's like to come from a family that hates whites, tells you your acting white if you don't subscribe to ghetto culture or don't hold up some low life loser as a martyr for your community. The black community is coddled and given every chance but thanks to the bigotry of low expectations from white liberals they are never expected to act any better than a looting thug but still get held up as an example of someone who can't get ahead because they're skin color is holding them back. Nope it is the ****88 up violent culture that is glamorized that holds blacks back. If you don't subscribe to ghetto culture in the black community they call you a coon or sellout, its totally disgusting and why I married out.

+1 great post

 

[PxD]

Yes I've been keeping up with this thread and have been responding all throughout. I see lots of ignorance (IMO). I'm not going to pretend like I have it all figured out either so I welcome criticism. I'm just trying to invoke discussion. Could people help to explain what John Oliver has gotten wrong there after watching the entire clip? I'm not a fanboy either but I think that his segment there is important and brings about some good points. I'm trying to figure out what the right actually stands for when it comes to the situation we're in because I often only see them trying to debunk and discredit movements without actually providing any meaningful solutions.

My solution always has been and always will be to do whatever is possible (in a non violent manner) to hinder and dismantle the ruling class. I believe the movements and protests we are seeing today are partly of fighting police brutality but are also backed by the years of dehumanizing policies and failures brought about by the ruling class. I support that.

As far as the "situation" is concerned, the Right doesn't stand for anything because it doesn't believe there is a "situation". The American Right is made up of a lot of people who are satisfied with their lives, happy with the status quo system, and not looking to create utopia or overthrow anything. Reagan used to call them the Silent Majority. They don't provide "meaningful solutions" because they think these alleged problems don't exist, or even worse, the problems are deliberately concocted to create chaos/change that will provide opportunities for the elite class to expand its power, e.g. Covid lockdowns, and take away rights and freedoms from regular people.

BLM/Antifa aren't protests against the ruling class. They are directly created by, and supported by, the ruling class. For crying out loud, Megacorporations have pledged to push billions into BLM and wokeness.

If you really want to support sticking it to the man, you'd be a constitutionalist, traditionalist right-winger, not supporting social movements supported by the likes of Soros, Bank of America, and Disney.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Thanks @PxD for your thorough replies. What you replied to my previous post mirrors to the letter the situation in Germany with PoC but we call them differently here - and especially recent immigrants coming in on the „refugee“ ticket.

Overproportional violence by those exact groups. Media silence about lt. Deflection, accusations and activism the other way round.
Structural and institutional advantages for those groups, not against.

It’s the tragedy and Perversion of our time - can we even bear it? - that those brown-shirt groups of activists are formed and upheld by the ruling elites - and left-leaving people don’t get it.