1 Drop Of Thyroid Gave Me A Panic Attack?

Waynish

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I've seen this a lot and I don't know why more people don't talk about it on this forum. Perhaps thyroid should be raised naturally by fixing living, getting the right nutrients, the right breath patterns, and reducing anti-thyroid compounds - instead...

These before and after thyroid pics are interesting:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/demystifying-14839477
-- perhaps the modern thyroid sources are more different than we think
 
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Deadpool

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It sounds like you are a person with good thyroid function, and, because of that, you have low cholesterol because it is rapidly converting to hormones. If so, I guess you should be feeling pretty good.

How would you describe your current state? Do you have any particular health problems you are trying to fix?


Edit: Just saw some of your symptoms above. Do you have any cravings then? I feel like once your endocrine system is humming along, all you need to do is do what you feel compelled to do, (even if it is extreme like fasting, or eating a bunch of vegetables or something). Do you have any cravings you've been ignoring in order to abide by Peaty principles?

I totally missed this answer yesterday, sorry.

I feel like total ***t though. No energy, chronic fatigue, sexual dysfunction etc

I've tried living and listening to what my body craves but honestly it got me no where except more pleasure when eating because my body usually gravitates to fast food when I do that ... but healthwise, it hasn't done anything.

A couple times I have tried fasting again, didn't help ...

Ray Peat Podcasts transcribed by LIGHT
at 24:00 Ray talks about how Pregnenolone will support cortisol until its full, then taking more Preg, will Not increase cortisol anymore.

I don't get it. I am pretty sure I am already super high cortisol. That would be one of the only explanations as to why my TSH is so low even though thyroid function wouldn't be good would be because cortisol would be driving it down.

I have also experimented with Pregnenolone in the past and it didn't help my situation.

...so you already have good thyroid hormone levels... but you think you need to take t3 because???? Some guy who’s vocal cords barely work says that everyone should be the pharmacist’s best friend?

Has he never heard of thyrotoxicosis??

Well, yes I get it he sounds weird. And I have questioned the validity of his stuff for years now but his reserach just makes so much sense.

The reason he said I could need thyroid is primarily because my temps are still low and I have some hypothyroidism symptoms.

The reason I took thyroid in the first place is because I am not feeling well and I thought it might help. What would be your suggestion? Seriously, I am desperate for ideas.

That seems like it would be enough to boost it, although if you're not absorbing it then obviously it won't help....

How were you diagnosed with fructose malabsorption, a breath test or something? Apparently parasites are associated with fructose malabsorption.

I've seen this a lot and I don't know why more people don't talk about it on this forum. Perhaps thyroid should be raised naturally by fixing living, getting the right nutrients, the right breath patterns, and reducing anti-thyroid compounds - instead...

These before and after thyroid pics are interesting:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/demystifying-14839477
-- perhaps the modern thyroid sources are more different than we think

I am missing your point. So you say raise thyroid naturally but then again post these pics. I have seen them and they were indeed very interesting and appealing results but achieved through thyroid supplementation.

In my case though, I am not sure if I even need to raise it naturally as my lab values already indicate a good thyroid function but my body says otherwise.
 
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Deadpool

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That seems like it would be enough to boost it, although if you're not absorbing it then obviously it won't help....

How were you diagnosed with fructose malabsorption, a breath test or something? Apparently parasites are associated with fructose malabsorption.

Interesting. Yes, I was diagnosed via breathe test and also tested positively for sorbitol. I also have classic symptoms like diarrhea when drinking Orange Juice, fruit or soda or excess sugar.

I have been thinking it might be parasites TBH, because I have been looking into the super low cholesterol problem and it seems it might be cause because of an infection or a parasite as well.

Any idea, what kind of parasites could cause this or how I could test for these?
 

BBRP

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I totally missed this answer yesterday, sorry.

I feel like total ***t though. No energy, chronic fatigue, sexual dysfunction etc

I've tried living and listening to what my body craves but honestly it got me no where except more pleasure when eating because my body usually gravitates to fast food when I do that ... but healthwise, it hasn't done anything.

A couple times I have tried fasting again, didn't help ...



I don't get it. I am pretty sure I am already super high cortisol. That would be one of the only explanations as to why my TSH is so low even though thyroid function wouldn't be good would be because cortisol would be driving it down.

I have also experimented with Pregnenolone in the past and it didn't help my situation.



Well, yes I get it he sounds weird. And I have questioned the validity of his stuff for years now but his reserach just makes so much sense.

The reason he said I could need thyroid is primarily because my temps are still low and I have some hypothyroidism symptoms.

The reason I took thyroid in the first place is because I am not feeling well and I thought it might help. What would be your suggestion? Seriously, I am desperate for ideas.





I am missing your point. So you say raise thyroid naturally but then again post these pics. I have seen them and they were indeed very interesting and appealing results but achieved through thyroid supplementation.

In my case though, I am not sure if I even need to raise it naturally as my lab values already indicate a good thyroid function but my body says otherwise.


Idk, I’m new to the whole Ray Peat ideas myself and trying to make sense of it all.



these people act like the diet components are so important yet how would they know if the diet changes are even helping when they’re taking as much drugs as a competitive bodybuilder??

t3, anabolic androgenic steroids, aromatase inhibitors, aspirin, antibiotic praise, etc


How can anybody take any of this seriously? Who wants to be a walking pharmacy? Might as well just go to real medical doctors and they can put you on testosterone, thyroid medicine, hgh, xanax, SSRIs and whatever else.


Shouldn’t it be people’s goals to feel better without being dependent on drugs? That dude in that article talks about having to constantly adjust his thyroid drugs on vacations and stuff. I don’t get it



and where are these people obtaining these drugs from anyways if they’re not seeing an endocrinologist?
 

Mito

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I think the cholesterol needs to be addressed. Obviously you already know this as it was already discussed in the thread, but it seems paramount to me. Fructose can increase it, but I posted a study once which suggested you need at least 100g of fructose per day before it starts to increase cholesterol. So that would be 200g of sucrose (which would be 100g of fructose) or more. A litre of orange juice has 51-57g of fructose (including free and from sucrose) so you would need to drink at least 2 litres a day assuming it was your only source. If I were in your shoes I think I would aim to get 200g of fructose a day.

Edit: I've decided to take my own advice and see what 200g of fructose a day does for me. I'm going to aim for 3 litres of orange juice a day and the rest will be from sucrose in my lattes.
According to this study The Small Intestine Converts Dietary Fructose Into Glucose And Organic Acids, if you limit fructose intake at 1g/kg body weight, it will metabolize in the small intestine. Anything over that amount will spill over to the liver and gut bacteria.

upload_2020-2-29_16-5-9.png
 

schultz

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Interesting. Yes, I was diagnosed via breathe test and also tested positively for sorbitol. I also have classic symptoms like diarrhea when drinking Orange Juice, fruit or soda or excess sugar.

I have been thinking it might be parasites TBH, because I have been looking into the super low cholesterol problem and it seems it might be cause because of an infection or a parasite as well.

Any idea, what kind of parasites could cause this or how I could test for these?

I wasn't aware there is a connection between low cholesterol and parasites. That is very interesting.

According to this paper there is an association between giardia intestinalis and fructose malabsorption.

"A high parasitic prevalence was observed in malabsorbers (41.8%), exclusively due to single-cell eukaryotes but not helminths. Giardia intestinalis was the predominant parasite in cases of abnormal absorption (26.5%), significantly associated with fructose malabsorption and doubling the probability of developing this pathology."


It doesn't mean you absolutely have parasites, but I think it's worth considering. They would likely be all the way up in the duodenum.

Shouldn’t it be people’s goals to feel better without being dependent on drugs?

For the most part yes, but I will play devils advocate and point out that the food and environment that we have access to is not optimal and so supplementation might help make up for this shortcoming.

According to this study The Small Intestine Converts Dietary Fructose Into Glucose And Organic Acids, if you limit fructose intake at 1g/kg body weight, it will metabolize in the small intestine. Anything over that amount will spill over to the liver and gut bacteria.

View attachment 16827

Very interesting. I wonder if there would be a difference in humans regarding per kg dosage? They do say, "Understanding the associated dose-response pattern in humans is of critical importance, but not addressed experimentally here." I wonder if there is any research of this in apes? Orangutans consume upwards of 10,000 calories of fruit in peak fruit season. It's possible they have massive amounts of VFA's being made in their gut during this time.

As far as the cholesterol is concerned, do you think it is the actual spillover that is increasing the cholesterol? This is the study I was referring to previously which talks about the amount of fructose needed to increase cholesterol.
 

BBRP

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I wasn't aware there is a connection between low cholesterol and parasites. That is very interesting.

According to this paper there is an association between giardia intestinalis and fructose malabsorption.

"A high parasitic prevalence was observed in malabsorbers (41.8%), exclusively due to single-cell eukaryotes but not helminths. Giardia intestinalis was the predominant parasite in cases of abnormal absorption (26.5%), significantly associated with fructose malabsorption and doubling the probability of developing this pathology."


It doesn't mean you absolutely have parasites, but I think it's worth considering. They would likely be all the way up in the duodenum.



For the most part yes, but I will play devils advocate and point out that the food and environment that we have access to is not optimal and so supplementation might help make up for this shortcoming.



Very interesting. I wonder if there would be a difference in humans regarding per kg dosage? They do say, "Understanding the associated dose-response pattern in humans is of critical importance, but not addressed experimentally here." I wonder if there is any research of this in apes? Orangutans consume upwards of 10,000 calories of fruit in peak fruit season. It's possible they have massive amounts of VFA's being made in their gut during this time.

As far as the cholesterol is concerned, do you think it is the actual spillover that is increasing the cholesterol? This is the study I was referring to previously which talks about the amount of fructose needed to increase cholesterol.


I agree on supplements,


But I also don’t think that a pharmaceutical drug that you can only get through prescription counts as a supplement.
 

meatbag

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Yes, I have, althought that was before I supplemented with thyroid and it didn't really make a difference for me ....

+

Well, that's the question. On the hand I believe yes, I am hyperthyroid but then there are replies like the one before where people say you stopped too early, it's just nervousness, go on etc

I gotta get the cholesterol up for sure though. Only problem is I don't know how anymore. I eat a ton of sugar and saturated fats, have experimented with quantities and still no result. I am no stranger to eggs, beef, milk, sugar etc How can it be so so low?

Have you measured your metabolic rate with heart rate and body temperature; waking, before and after eating?

This link has some quotes from Ray Peat about thyroid supplementation;
Ray Peat, PhD on Thyroid, Temperature, Pulse, and TSH – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
Temperature and Pulse Basics & Monthly Log – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

I think the other things that I've seen discussed are a person not consuming enough protein or having an infection
TyroMax - Liquid Thyroid (NDT), USP
 

meatbag

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So after 3 years of no success trying to implement Peat's work into my lifestyle, I finally bit the bullet and ordered thyroid, to be clear, Tyromax.

I have had hypothyroid symptoms or so Ive been told on this forum but my labs really say something different.

TSH basal: 0.94 (0.27 - 4.2)
Free T3: 4.4 (2 - 4.4)
Free T4: 1.6 (0.9 - 1.7)

With higher prolactin and super low cholesterol.

I was hesitant to take thyroid in fear that it would be dangerous or further lower my cholesterol, but after reading and talking with members, I thought it might be high cortisol that is creating these lab values and I am still hypothyroid.

I took 1 drop of thyroid for two days, and on the second day, I started having what I think was like a panic attack in the middle of the night. Woke up after like 2 hours of sleep. My skin felt super hot, I felt uncomfortable and my heart rate was 90bpm and I had pulsating headache from high blood pressure.

What do you guys make out of that? Is thyroid maybe not for me? Weirdly enough, both days of taking thyroid I woke up feeling better rested than usual with less under eye rings.

Yo, thought this latest convo might be insightful to what's going on:
Ray Peat Status

1:31:00 - "The adrenaline system has been maligned, its the flight or flight immediate response stress hormone. But it does activate other stress hormones cortisol and so on. So it can if it persists, be harmful. But the history of it, maligning that has led to people to over emphasize the opposite parasympathetic part of the nervous system which with severe stress and aging, the paraympatheitc overtakes the other side and creates the degenerative processes. So, the things that momentarily increase the epinephrine or adrenaline side can be very, very helpful if they are stopped soon enough. Sugar and salt happen to be two of the nutrients that will limit uncontrolled production of the adrenaline system. Thyroid; I've seen hypothyroid people who had just hour after hour their blood would be saturated with as much as 40x the normal amount of adrenaline compensating for the low thyroid function. So when you first take thyroid if you've been over producing adrenaline, you'll experience a stress speedy adrenaline reaction. People think that's the thyroid action, but actually thyroid has the relaxing function, you have to adapt to it gradually, getting the adrenaline under control. So having sugary and salty foods while you're adjusting to thyroid will help you keep the adrenaline under control. Once you're thyroid function is good, adrenaline is all good. Speeds your thinking and does everything helpful for adaptation. It's just the overproduction of it (adrenaline) usually from hypothyroidism, becomes a stress problem."
 
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Deadpool

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Yo, thought this latest convo might be insightful to what's going on:
Ray Peat Status

1:31:00 - "The adrenaline system has been maligned, its the flight or flight immediate response stress hormone. But it does activate other stress hormones cortisol and so on. So it can if it persists, be harmful. But the history of it, maligning that has led to people to over emphasize the opposite parasympathetic part of the nervous system which with severe stress and aging, the paraympatheitc overtakes the other side and creates the degenerative processes. So, the things that momentarily increase the epinephrine or adrenaline side can be very, very helpful if they are stopped soon enough. Sugar and salt happen to be two of the nutrients that will limit uncontrolled production of the adrenaline system. Thyroid; I've seen hypothyroid people who had just hour after hour their blood would be saturated with as much as 40x the normal amount of adrenaline compensating for the low thyroid function. So when you first take thyroid if you've been over producing adrenaline, you'll experience a stress speedy adrenaline reaction. People think that's the thyroid action, but actually thyroid has the relaxing function, you have to adapt to it gradually, getting the adrenaline under control. So having sugary and salty foods while you're adjusting to thyroid will help you keep the adrenaline under control. Once you're thyroid function is good, adrenaline is all good. Speeds your thinking and does everything helpful for adaptation. It's just the overproduction of it (adrenaline) usually from hypothyroidism, becomes a stress problem."

interesting. Thank you very much
 
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Deadpool

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np, I had similar problem with thyroid

did you solve just by upping sugar?

did you by chance have any labs done before so you knew your thyroid lab values before you started taking it?
 

meatbag

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did you solve just by upping sugar?

did you by chance have any labs done before so you knew your thyroid lab values before you started taking it?
No, I just use temperature+pulse rate before and after eating and symptoms.

"Increasingly, TSH (the pituitary thyroid stimulating hormone) has been treated as if it meant something independently; however, it can be brought down into the normal range, or lower, by substances other than the thyroid hormones."

“Basal” body temperature is influenced by many things besides thyroid. The resting heart rate helps to interpret the temperature. In a cool environment, the temperature of the extremities is sometimes a better indicator than the oral or eardrum temperature.”

"Oral or armpit temperature, in the morning before getting out of bed, should be around 98F, and it should rise to 98.6F by mid-morning. This is not valid if you sleep under and electric blanket, or is the weather is hot and humid. A person who is hypothyroid produces heat at a low rate, but doesn’t lose it at a normal rate, since there is less sweating, and the skin is relatively cool. Many hypothyroid people compensate with high adrenalin production (sometimes 40 times higher than normal), and this tends to keep the skin cook, especially on the hands, feet, and nose. The high adrenalin is the consequence of low blood glucose, so a feeding of carbohydrate, such as a glass of orange juice, will sometimes lower the pulse rate momentarily. Healthy populations have an average resting pulse of about 85 per minute. Especially in hot weather it is useful to consider both temperature and pulse rate.”

-Ray Peat, PhD on Thyroid, Temperature, Pulse, and TSH – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

I just go by sugar cravings taste. If I want it I eat it, If i'm drinking juice and it doesn't taste like I want more of it I stop and I'll drink water instead. Same with salt.
Low Blood Sugar Basics
 

tankasnowgod

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I took 1 drop of thyroid for two days, and on the second day, I started having what I think was like a panic attack in the middle of the night. Woke up after like 2 hours of sleep. My skin felt super hot, I felt uncomfortable and my heart rate was 90bpm and I had pulsating headache from high blood pressure.

It sounds like an adrenaline surge to me. I've gotten this (usually after a night of drinking). Whenever I get this, I usually go drink a glass of orange juice (or something else with a fair amount of sugar). Well over 80% of the time, this does the trick, heartrate quickly calms down, and I go back to sleep.

If you keep experimenting with thyroid, you may want to increase your carb intake, and especially before going to sleep. If you do wake up with that, try drinking some juice.
 

tankasnowgod

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Idk, I’m new to the whole Ray Peat ideas myself and trying to make sense of it all.

How many of Ray Peat's articles have you read? He's also done a slew of interviews that can easily be found on youtube. How many of his interviews have you listened to?

How can anybody take any of this seriously? Who wants to be a walking pharmacy? Might as well just go to real medical doctors and they can put you on testosterone, thyroid medicine, hgh, xanax, SSRIs and whatever else.

There is no one who follows Peat's ideas that would ever want to take an SSRI. I'm guessing you haven't read these three-

Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation
Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging
Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.

I think most would also be avoiding any sort of benzo like xanax (maybe one of the worst classes of drug), nor hgh either.
 

Wilfrid

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Do you have any values regarding serum TBG, SHBG, calcium, vitamin D and PTH?
Any liver enzymes blood test done?
 

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