WTF is going on in my gut? - failed Cascara Sagrada experiment

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Dec 4, 2020
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238
I've been struggling with incomplete bowel movements for a while so I decided to try some Cascara Sagrada.
The first morning after taking it the night before, I woke up extremely dehydrated - severe headache, dry mouth, fatigue, etc. I had to drink about 5-6 litres of water to feel better, which is way more than my regular ~2 litres a day. My urine (when I did finally pee) was dark yellow. No bowel movement though, in fact I didn't have any at all that day.
I took a bigger dose of Cascara that night and the next morning woke up feeling even more dehydrated than the previous morning. It was one of the worst headaches I'd ever had, and my mouth felt like cotton - I think I drank about 7 litres of water to quench my thirst that day. No bowel movement that day too.
By the third day, the same thing was happening (took Cascara the night before, extremely dehydrated the next day, no bowel movement), but now I was also starting to get very bloated, was experiencing significant pain and cramping, and nausea.
The fourth day was the same, with such bad nausea that I felt like I was on the verge of vomiting for hours; I felt like if I did something so simple as breathe wrong I wouldn't be able to contain myself and hurl. I didn't take Cascara that night after experiencing such nausea, and I still haven't experienced a bowel movement.
How can I:
1. Be getting constipated by taking Cascara
2. Be getting so dehydrated if I'M NOT ELIMINATING ANYTHING?
 

dukesbobby777

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Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
633
Water won't help you have a bowel movement. Litres of water will lower metabolism (well it does for me). If I want to feel cold, drink lots of water. And when I feel cold (lowered metabolism), everything declines (being able to sleep, libido, bowel movements, etc).

Juice on the other hand will reliably help with bowel movements. Why that is, I don't know. Perhaps the fibre in the juice helps. Orange juice and apple juice both do the job for me. Coffee first thing in the morning can also help. Cascara takes about 8-12 hours to work in my case. I don't know why it wouldn't be working for you. Its pretty potent. If I want to induce a bowel movement more quickly, I then turn to magnesium hydroxide (in the form of milk of magnesia). Sometimes nibbling a bit of t3 can help. Once the much needed bowel movement occurs, my hands and feet immediately start to warm up (metabolism gets better). So staying regular, for sure, is very important.
 

carlz

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Jul 3, 2021
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I actually do find that water helps me. Also prune juice in a pinch. And of course carrot.
 

bk_

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Apr 6, 2018
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I've been struggling with incomplete bowel movements for a while so I decided to try some Cascara Sagrada.
The first morning after taking it the night before, I woke up extremely dehydrated - severe headache, dry mouth, fatigue, etc. I had to drink about 5-6 litres of water to feel better, which is way more than my regular ~2 litres a day. My urine (when I did finally pee) was dark yellow. No bowel movement though, in fact I didn't have any at all that day.
I took a bigger dose of Cascara that night and the next morning woke up feeling even more dehydrated than the previous morning. It was one of the worst headaches I'd ever had, and my mouth felt like cotton - I think I drank about 7 litres of water to quench my thirst that day. No bowel movement that day too.
By the third day, the same thing was happening (took Cascara the night before, extremely dehydrated the next day, no bowel movement), but now I was also starting to get very bloated, was experiencing significant pain and cramping, and nausea.
The fourth day was the same, with such bad nausea that I felt like I was on the verge of vomiting for hours; I felt like if I did something so simple as breathe wrong I wouldn't be able to contain myself and hurl. I didn't take Cascara that night after experiencing such nausea, and I still haven't experienced a bowel movement.
How can I:
1. Be getting constipated by taking Cascara
2. Be getting so dehydrated if I'M NOT ELIMINATING ANYTHING?
How much cascara did you ingest in a single day? It may work by slowing water absorption. If you have some kind of bowel obstruction then it’s possible you’re not absorbing as much water anymore while retaining a lot in your gut. If there is a physical obstruction due to some kind of growth it may put more pressure on the obstruction making things worse.

I’d be concerned about a bowel obstruction, if I were you I’d seek immediate medical attention.
 

PeskyPeater

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Feb 24, 2019
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Emodin in cascara increases oxidative metabolism and reduces the breakdown of monoamines. THis increase in metabolism can dry you out, just like taking amphetamine or other dopaminergics.

Molecular Mechanisms of Action of Emodin: As an Anti-Cardiovascular Disease Drug

Du and Ko, 2005, 2006 :
Effects of emodin treatment on mitochondrial ATP generation capacity and antioxidant components as well as susceptibility to ischemia-reperfusion injury in rat hearts: single versus multiple doses and gender difference - PubMed

Abstract​

Effects of emodin (EMD) treatment on mitochondrial ATP generation capacity and antioxidant components as well as susceptibility to ischemia-reperfusion (I-R) injury were examined in male and female rat hearts. Isolated-perfused hearts prepared from female rats were less susceptible to I-R injury than those of male rats. I-R caused significant decreases in ATP generation capacity and reduced glutathione (GSH) and alpha-tocopherol (alpha-TOC) levels as well as glutathione reductase, Se-glutathione peroxidase and Mn-superoxide dismutase (SOD) activities. The lower susceptibility of female hearts to myocardial I-R injury was associated with higher levels of GSH and alpha-TOC as well as activity of SOD than those of male hearts. EMD treatment at 3 daily doses (0.6 or 1.2 mmol/kg) could enhance myocardial mitochondrial ATP generation capacity and antioxidant components in both male and female rat hearts, but it only significantly protected against I-R injury in female hearts. Treatment with a single dose of EMD invariably enhanced mitochondrial antioxidant components and protected against I-R injury in both male and female hearts. The gender-dependent effect of EMD treatment at multiple doses may be related to the differential antioxidant response in the myocardium and/or induction of drug metabolizing enzymes in the liver.

Effects of pharmacological preconditioning by emodin/oleanolic acid treatment and/or ischemic preconditioning on mitochondrial antioxidant components as well as the susceptibility to ischemia-reperfusion injury in rat hearts - PubMed

Emodin Derivatives as Multi-Target-Directed Ligands Inhibiting Monoamine Oxidase and Antagonizing Vasopressin V1A Receptors
 
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PeskyPeater

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Look for increasing your magnesium and support GABA to calm down the nervous system. And reduce serotonin and estrogens with Aspirin with K2 or Cyproheptadine. Drink warm sweetend milk with ginger root powder and greek yogurt with oatbran for gut health and improve stool.

Losartan helps to improve IBS symptoms and leaky gut to improve stools when hypothyroid, check you vitamin D should be in 50ng/ml (4,000 IU/day) and calcium daily intake to 1500mg. If hypo then magnesium leaks. So check you temp and BPM after waking and between 11.h 15h.

Look for something that support a higher metabolism like the b vitamines. Niacinamide, B1 B6 Biotin

Bacterio spores Coagulens or Subtilis help to improve microbiome and occasional tetracycline to maintain.

Or Lysine HCL before breakfast or before sleep 20m without sugars for it binds to glucose and excretes it in the urine. this also reduces serotonin, has effects like niacinamide, get funny feeling like butterflies in stomach.
 
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Joëlle

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Joined
Jul 20, 2020
Messages
3
I've been struggling with incomplete bowel movements for a while so I decided to try some Cascara Sagrada.
The first morning after taking it the night before, I woke up extremely dehydrated - severe headache, dry mouth, fatigue, etc. I had to drink about 5-6 litres of water to feel better, which is way more than my regular ~2 litres a day. My urine (when I did finally pee) was dark yellow. No bowel movement though, in fact I didn't have any at all that day.
I took a bigger dose of Cascara that night and the next morning woke up feeling even more dehydrated than the previous morning. It was one of the worst headaches I'd ever had, and my mouth felt like cotton - I think I drank about 7 litres of water to quench my thirst that day. No bowel movement that day too.
By the third day, the same thing was happening (took Cascara the night before, extremely dehydrated the next day, no bowel movement), but now I was also starting to get very bloated, was experiencing significant pain and cramping, and nausea.
The fourth day was the same, with such bad nausea that I felt like I was on the verge of vomiting for hours; I felt like if I did something so simple as breathe wrong I wouldn't be able to contain myself and hurl. I didn't take Cascara that night after experiencing such nausea, and I still haven't experienced a bowel movement.
How can I:
1. Be getting constipated by taking Cascara
2. Be getting so dehydrated if I'M NOT ELIMINATING ANYTHING?
If you needed *that* much water afterwards, I would strongly consider that you have an electrolyte deficiency.
It's said that Cascara Sagrada can cause you to expel too much Potassium if you aren't careful.

Here is information from the NIH:


Cascara Sagrada: MedlinePlus Supplements sagrada is a laxative,potassium levels drop too low.

I keep a jar of the stuff and supplement with it for that reason and to generally make sure that I have enough electrolytes like Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, etc.

I'm Caribbean-American, so drinking coconut water for hydration ( tastes better without added sugar or at least, very minimal amounts of it ) is a natural love of mine.
Not great for those who may be allergic to tree nuts and such, however.
 

Joëlle

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Joined
Jul 20, 2020
Messages
3
How much cascara did you ingest in a single day? It may work by slowing water absorption. If you have some kind of bowel obstruction then it’s possible you’re not absorbing as much water anymore while retaining a lot in your gut. If there is a physical obstruction due to some kind of growth it may put more pressure on the obstruction making things worse.

I’d be concerned about a bowel obstruction, if I were you I’d seek immediate medical attention.
I'm quite late. But, yes, it sounds serious.
Hope the OP got serious help in time.
Left my earlier comment for others who may read this thread.
Always properly weigh the potential drawbacks of any health-related/medical to your life.
 

PeskyPeater

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OP, I need to know if you are diagnosed with or have measured hypothyroidism.
My urine (when I did finally pee)
serotonin delays peeing.
What are you using against serotonin? You need to address this and estrogen, cyproheptadine does both. Add aspirin with k2 synergies with cypro.
Ginger root improves the enzymes in the liver to help eliminate estrogen via the urine and modulates serotonin disturbances in the gut, possible improving gut motility. As does wheatbran with greek yogurt, to improve gut mucal lining and improve transit rate.

gas trapped in certain parts of the gut, is from reduced peristalsis by bad thyroid function. everyone has same amounts of gas volume in the gut, but parts get stuck and dont move and the pressure affects mood and sickness. you need to use initially some laxative and anti inflammatory, like couple tablespoons of magnesium citrate or oxide to expel the clog. If the gut epithelial cells an vili are damaged you take (thyroid )or wheatbran and vitamin E in olive oil to recover quickly its repair of the walls.

serotonin is slowing down your cellular respiration for decreased capacity to use oxygen and produce CO2. bag breathing throughout the day, is quickly effective. as is methylene blue when thyroid is not yet optimal. or using an extract of curcumin which is an carbonic anhydrase inhibitor to improve CO2 and the hormonal profile towards pregnenolone and progesteron . rooibos tea also improves those hormones. and the peppermint finely ground tea acts like orange juice flavonoids to support liver and gut health.
 

dreamcatcher

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Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Messages
863
I've been struggling with incomplete bowel movements for a while so I decided to try some Cascara Sagrada.
The first morning after taking it the night before, I woke up extremely dehydrated - severe headache, dry mouth, fatigue, etc. I had to drink about 5-6 litres of water to feel better, which is way more than my regular ~2 litres a day. My urine (when I did finally pee) was dark yellow. No bowel movement though, in fact I didn't have any at all that day.
I took a bigger dose of Cascara that night and the next morning woke up feeling even more dehydrated than the previous morning. It was one of the worst headaches I'd ever had, and my mouth felt like cotton - I think I drank about 7 litres of water to quench my thirst that day. No bowel movement that day too.
By the third day, the same thing was happening (took Cascara the night before, extremely dehydrated the next day, no bowel movement), but now I was also starting to get very bloated, was experiencing significant pain and cramping, and nausea.
The fourth day was the same, with such bad nausea that I felt like I was on the verge of vomiting for hours; I felt like if I did something so simple as breathe wrong I wouldn't be able to contain myself and hurl. I didn't take Cascara that night after experiencing such nausea, and I still haven't experienced a bowel movement.
How can I:
1. Be getting constipated by taking Cascara
2. Be getting so dehydrated if I'M NOT ELIMINATING ANYTHING?
@deliciousfruit if you want to heal your gut, you could try TRIPHALA powder. 1/4-1/2 TSP daily. I guarantee that your bowel movements will normalise shortly.
 

PeskyPeater

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@deliciousfruit if you want to heal your gut, you could try TRIPHALA powder. 1/4-1/2 TSP daily. I guarantee that your bowel movements will normalise shortly.
I do not agree with the safety of their constituents.
Although it's antibacterial against gram positive and negative bacteria, and increases the lactobacilis that release lactic acid whcih is also antibacterial and helps to shift towards a better diverse microbiom...
It does contain quercetin and kaemferol that are estrogenic or reduce the breakdown of estrogen from elimination by the liver.
Seems most of the bioactives fight inflammation, and help the gut via calcium blocking and cAMP reduction, by gallic acid. But this gallic acid can also be found in (decaf) coffee
But it's better than nothing :)

PS, forgot about the anthraquinones in triphala, they are useful laxatives and antiinflammatory, kind of like emodin from cascara. But you need to get the original triphala water or alcohol extract, not the Triphala Mashi extracts they dont have the anthraquinones.
 
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ddjd

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Jul 13, 2014
Messages
6,678
is this true about cascara sagrada being anti estrogenic? (starts at 4:44)




View: https://youtu.be/dbLsheuYUuU?t=284



transcript from youtube (lots of errors):

"cascara sagrada can actually cause smooth muscles in the intestine to actually contract just like salt and it aids in paralysis it can actually adjust the secretion and absorption of the fluids in the GI system as well so the fluid stay in the intestine and so the cells actually don't become waterlogged so it can actually read what's the word I'm looking for it can actually reduce edema allow ourselves to let go of water and regulate the absorption and adjust the secretion of juices in the GI system so it has a regulatory effect on the GI system itself as well as the large intestine it can actually prevent leakiness now it does this because it actually inhibits that vegetative endothelium growth factor and that's stimulated by aldosterone and aldosterone is stimulated when we lose sodium from ourselves in our urine along with albumin which regulates blood volume this happens in any hypo metabolic condition diabetes hypothyroidism cancer autoimmune disease that's a hallmark sign with loose sodium when you lose sodium your body stimulates aldosterone to actually up regulate sodium retention right that's what it does now if we can down regulate that and we increase our salt intake we can actually down regulate aldosterone production at the same time according to Ray and rabello it's been shown that fructose by bypassing fatty inhibition and getting into the cell can actually down regulate free fatty acids in the blood down regulate aldosterone and up regulate our cells retention of sodium so in a nutshell cascara sagrada can help regulate that along with what you're doing it helps to prevent leakiness which can cause an immune system reaction and it can cause more inflammation in the body kisara sagrada is actually a antigenic and sometimes this is the reason we use it if we feel someone's estrogen dominance is because they're not able to detoxify estrogen it's being recirculated in the small intestine you know we're using the carrot or bamboo shoots you know twice a day with meal - oatmeal - and meal for they're having it with a meal they're using it consistently and it's helping but we feel they need an extra boost we'll use small doses of cascada segrada because then it can actually help to facilitate the detoxification of estrogen and absorb the estrogen so in itself it's actually anti estrogenic"
 

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