Kefir And Secondary Fermentation

cjm

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I only have about a teaspoon at the moment. I just randomly eat the excesses whenever they get bigger. I like mine about 24 hours per batch.

Thanks. Mine are probably 24 hours total between the warm ferment and secondary fridge ferment. Just curious what was working for you.

Atleast I have butter lol.

True, I absolutely love butter myself, but damn, I'm sorry to hear that!
 

CLASH

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Thanks. Mine are probably 24 hours total between the warm ferment and secondary fridge ferment. Just curious what was working for you.
True, I absolutely love butter myself, but damn, I'm sorry to hear that!

When life gives you dairy intolerance, eat butter.
 
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Jib

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Add salt to it to make Aran, it's delicious

I've been doing this with strained kefir. The whey separates and results in a cream cheese. I used this bag, "Kleynhuis Greek Yogurt Strainer" bag that you can find on Amazon. I got the set with the colander and have used it several times now. It's great because you can make very large batches at once. I put in a half gallon of kefir and it barely filled it halfway.

It will only strain so much on its own. Once a good amount of whey has drained out (12 or 24 hours, whatever) you can squeeze the remainder out and then let it sit an additional 12 hours or whatever. The whole point is preservation so I don't worry about how long I leave it. I did find that the bag was pretty filthy, so to clean it I ended up boiling it in water for about 10 minutes then rinsing it with cold water. Got all the remnants out.

Haven't tried salting kefir on its own. Will have to try that.

I know Peat isn't a fan of whey, but I am LOVING this stuff. The strained whey after making kefir cream cheese. I'm drinking it right now actually, in the middle of working out. Been at it for about an hour, taking a quick break now, and sipping on whey inbetween sets. Total I'm probably having about 16 ounces of whey. It makes me feel amazing and it seems to help with workout endurance and energy.

You could very easily flavor this and add sugar to it, but I'm liking it just fine on its own.

So much you can do with kefir cream cheese. Amazing stuff and none of the BS in commercial cream cheese. I made amazing shrimp tacos the other night. Steamed shrimp, and sauteed them in some kefir cream cheese paste with seasonings: paprika, cumin, cilantro, salt, and chili powder. Squeezed some fresh lime juice over it after. The shrimp took on a beautiful creamy orange color. Mission tortillas fried and folded in hydrogenated coconut oil. Threw some lettuce on there too. Very simple but they really were amazing.

The cream cheese can be used just like normal cream cheese. It's amazing. I'm saving up more of it and experimenting with sauces because it's such a great base for sauces.

Also been wetting a paper towel with the kefir whey, and wiping my face with it. Seems to tighten up my skin and make it glow. I'm also hoping it'll help with some stubborn zits I've been getting, just one or two. Could be from wearing masks, not sure. Either way I've heard it can help, and it feels very refreshing. Especially cold right out of the fridge. That'll wake you up.
 
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Jib

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@ecstatichamster

Still going strong with kefir. Just a part of daily life now. I use a half gallon jar with a polyseal cap for making it and do about 5 or 6 cups a day. Sometimes 4. Still using the 1 gallon jar for secondary fermentation.

The fermentation must produce a lot of K2. Just a thought.

Mostly using it in smoothies. 2 bananas, 1 quart kefir, 12g collagen, 24g whey isolate, then 5g creatine, 2-4g beta alanine, 500mg or so sodium ascorbate, 2-4g taurine and 2-4g or so glycine. Just my go-to mix once a day. Great. I tried casein protein but it gives me a ton of bloating and gas even taken with digestive enzymes.

On average I have about 5 cups a day of kefir. Could be more or less depending on the day but most days I have 1 shake and that's a whole quart of kefir.

Bowel health/consistency seems to be much better in the months since resuming kefir. Loose stools are rare now while before they were literally a daily occurrence. More regular overall. Reflux has also been completely absent.

Kefir and cheese continue to be my main sources of dairy. It seems to be working well.
 
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thanks @Jib

I'm energizing my newly acquired grains and embarking on this again. I am hoping to ditch the LF milk and maybe regain ability to use lactose, who knows.

So far I've been drinking about 1 cup a day as we get the grains going, and things are fine so far.
 
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Jib

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thanks @Jib

I'm energizing my newly acquired grains and embarking on this again. I am hoping to ditch the LF milk and maybe regain ability to use lactose, who knows.

So far I've been drinking about 1 cup a day as we get the grains going, and things are fine so far.

Any progress?

I'm debating going back to whole milk kefir. It just tastes so much more palatable. Night and day difference. Fresh whole milk kefir is truly delicious. The lower fat kefir I've been making with 1% milk is OK, but more sour, and thinner. Probably more sour because there's more lactose instead of fat, so more lactic acid as a byproduct. The idea of drinking thin kefir is not so appealing but I've really been having a good amount of whole milk kefir lately.

Just gotta watch the fat intake. I've also been using fresh kefir as a starter culture for sourdough bread. It works great. Could not be any easier. Fermentation will mitigate the problems grains tend to cause by nearly completely eliminating phytic acid, and breaking down gluten and starch to make it more digestible.

I recently got down to 180-185lbs from 205lbs, so I'm not too keen on gorging myself on whole milk kefir. Might try 2% and see if that's as palatable. The 1% is a bit tough to get down. And this is from someone who's had a lot of it over the years. I just notice I'm craving the whole milk a lot more and the 1% seems almost gross to me now.

Been making more kefir cheese, though. The 1% is fine for that, since you're straining out all the whey, which is where most of the really sharp acid taste is from. The curds left behind are like cream cheese and go great on sourdough bread with some green onions. Excellent.

A cream cheese frosting would be very easy to make as well with jam, raw honey, or anything else sweet mixed with the kefir cream cheese.

I've been trying to go low fat this past year. I've enjoyed the whole milk kefir so far, for the 1 gallon I've had of it, but I might stop before it gets out of control. Fat creeps up on you and PUFA or not I don't think it's good for metabolism beyond a relatively small portion of the diet.

It's gonna be hard to figure out because I do need more dairy for the calcium (just had 4 dental cavities), but it's hard to get a lot of low-fat dairy in for me. And the lactic acid taste is way more obvious to me in the lower-fat kefirs I make compared to the higher fat, for whatever reason.
 

Inaut

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Lately I’ve been adding about 1 cup of store bought kefir to a quart of milk and drinking it throughout the day. It significantly reduces bloating as compared to just drinking the quart of milk. Will keep trying it out.
 

Jam

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I've been making kefir again with whole raw milk lately, find it super refreshing in the summer heat... plain straight out of the fridge or with a dash of salt and a couple mint leaves.
 

lvysaur

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I only buy kefir, and I buy the same brand every time. The taste changes.

Sometimes it's tangy, savory. Definitely not cheesy, but pleasantly sour.
Other times it's sharp and acidic, more like normal yogurt.

When I drink the 2nd type, as well as when I consume any type of yogurt, I get muscle aches. I assume it's lactic acid
 

VitoScaletta

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Just throwing this out here: I've been "secondary fermenting" my kefir, and it results in a very noticeably milder kefir. Less tartness/acidic bite, more mellow. Almost like a very, very faint cheese-like flavor, with very little acidic bite. Secondary fermentation = letting the strained, completed kefir sit in a separate container, without kefir grains, at room temperature for something like 6 to 12 hours.

I brewed kefir for a few days, enough to almost fill a 1 gallon jug. And my strategy now is I make a quart of kefir daily, and use about a quart daily. Sometimes more. I use what I need from the jug, then replenish with fresh kefir.

The result is an ongoing "secondary fermented" kefir. I alternate between keeping this giant jug either on the countertop or in the fridge. It isn't an exact science on my part.

But I never drink freshly strained kefir. It all goes into the 'master jug' first, mixed up, and then used, usually after at least several hours of sitting on the countertop, or overnight in the fridge.

I'm well aware that kefir is not Peat friendly. Lactic acid, bacteria....all no-no's according to Peat's research. However, my gas and bloating is just about completely gone after switching from plain milk to kefir. So for now, I'm sticking with that. I think the nutrients in milk are valuable enough that dealing with some lactic acid and bacteria may be completely worth it, compared to not having dairy at all.

Another option I've considered is pre-treating milk with lactase enzyme, such as dissolving lactase liquid or pills in a gallon of milk and letting it sit for a few days.

Much more expensive than kefir grains, although no lactic acid or probiotics. Have not tried that yet. Of course you could also simply take Lactaid pills before drinking milk like a normal person, though 'normal people' don't drink the quantities of milk often recommended here, e.g. an upwards of one half-gallon daily.

So as a "middle of the road" approach, I'm thinking about secondary fermented kefir. I haven't researched this yet, but I am very curious about how secondary fermentation mellows the flavor so much. I wonder if the lactic acid is converted into another acid, or makes the kefir safer to consume in any way, shape, or form.

It certainly tastes that way. It's much more pleasant to drink. We can get so caught up in research that we ignore our own instincts and firsthand experiences. I think that's a mistake. So I'm trusting myself on this one, and will only drink secondary fermented kefir, as fresh kefir is actually pretty disagreeable to me. Too sour, too tart, almost feels like drinking it is a punishment. Secondary fermented plain kefir is pretty enjoyable however.

It's very likely that 'secondary fermented' kefir was the traditional way to consume kefir as well. My guess is bags full of large amounts of kefir were simply replenished periodically with fresh milk. The result would be you'd have very 'old,' mellowed kefir always in the mix. The whole point was preservation to begin with, so the idea of consuming fresh kefir when you could just as easily consume fresh milk does not make much sense to me. It's likely that small groups of people drank from the same container of kefir, which would always have "old" kefir in the mix.

Perhaps people even had their fill of fresh milk and then whatever was left over went into the kefir brew.

Just a theory. But I think intuition is important here. And again...it tastes much better to me, more palatable, more enjoyable, and perhaps that should be trusted.

So take this under advisement if you're making your own kefir. Definitely worth trying. I recently started brewing kefir again (did it for years a long time ago), but only over the past few weeks have experimented with this 'secondary fermentation.' Much to my surprise, it makes plain kefir taste quite good. Whether or not it's actually healthier is debatable, but going by my taste buds, it's better for me.

Not something I've seen discussed here, so figured I'd make a thread dedicated to it. FWIW my gas and bloating from plain milk have all but disappeared with the switch to kefir. Lactic acid and bacteria get a hugely bad rap here, but the calcium and protein in milk is so hugely beneficial, I'd argue that kefir is the lesser of two evils, compared to omitting dairy from the diet completely. I'd say it's at least worth experimenting with if you absolutely do not tolerate milk at all, to see if having it in a fermented, predigested form agrees with you.
Very interesting, thank you for making this thread! Are you still consuming Kefir and have any of your methods change/do you have some more input?
 

Borz

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Interesting, it sounds a bit like a food from Mexico, Jocoque (think it was developed by the Lebanese community back home). It is usually eaten with salt, olive oil, some cilantro finely chopped onion. I'll try looking for Aran here in the US or if you know any other name?
Jocoque - Wikipedia
I think he meant to say Ayran, it's a Turkish drink made with mixing yogurt, salt, and water. It's very tasty and everyone in Turkey loves it. How you make it depends on how thick or watery you like it and how salty you like it, so you gotta try and see. I like it on the thicker side, here is my recipe; get a measuring cup and put 200g greek yogurt in it, 1/2 tsp salt, then fill the cup with water close to the 16oz mark and mix well.
 

Jam

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  • A substance made by yeast in the probiotic drink kefir inhibits pathogenic bacteria, including Vibrio cholerae and Salmonella enterica.
  • The substance, called tryptophol acetate, works by disrupting communication among the bacteria.
  • The discovery could inspire the development of new ways to tackle antibiotic resistant bacteria.
 

Jam

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DBCoast

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How’s everyone doing with the kefir?

We started making it this past summer and have really enjoy it. I’ve been abstaining for a bit, but am thinking of re-incorporating it. Digestion hasn’t been the greatest and hoping it will help. I absolutely love eating a spoon of honey followed by some kefir.

Also, we get the best results with whole pasteurized milk. Our raw milk kefir seems to always turn out grainy. Maybe it needs more rounds for the grains to adapt. Not sure.

Have you seen health benefits fro kefir?
 

lvysaur

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Can't speak for proteins, but can speak for hormones.
Prior to 2009, US conventional milk had rBST.

Fresh milk products and especially butter, particularly those nasty white butter packets from restaurants, would give me acne. With the restaurant butter it would give me aggressive acne within 2 hours of consumption.

What I noticed is that yogurt and aged cheese never did this. Fermentation definitely did something to the hormones, I could see it doing something to proteins as well.

(rBST was stopped around 2010, and now even conventional milk gives me no acne. I would still recommend against restaurant butter pats)
 

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