Plant Based Diet Was Best For Me. Is Ray Peat A Bunch Of Bs?

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But it's quite clear he's in favor of carbohydrate based (hence plant based) diets.

He is pro animal protein in that you will find many quotes from him on the anti thyroid qualities of beans etc and dangers of starchy foods. I agree with most of RP’s general ideas, but certain specifics like beans being bad or tons of liver and crustaceans being good I find somewhat odd. I’m also not sure if his proposed potato water truly is a decent way to get protein... The more I have looked in to it myself I think foods that do not spike an endotoxic response are the most valuable. I get a much worse response from meats than beans. I think it must have to do with the difference in iron availability to gram negative bacteria throughout the body. I think heme iron is more bioavailable and therefore more dangerous in promoting chronic inflammation. Add to that the way that high saturated fat messes up gut permeability and promotes the growth of gram negative bacteria. Low fat dairy is a better source of protein because of this, and high in calcium which blocks iron, which is part of why RP mentions low fat dairy so frequently. The more I have researched the issue myself, I see diets high in polyphenols and fiber and low in saturated fat as being far superior in benefiting gram positive bacteria and lowering the prevalence of endotoxin producing bacteria. I have also found that there are certain foods which inherently have higher amounts of endotoxin in them, mainly creams, aged cheeses, and meats. In my mind beans and low fat milk are almost equals in their overall value, with beans you have poor bio available iron and anti nutrients which act to chelate iron and various minerals which balance the gut ph in favor of the good bacteria, with low fat milk you get low iron and the iron blocking and ph balancing of calcium. Both are similarly gut friendly. I prefer rice and beans over milk as a major protein source for various reasons, largely I do not have to worry so much about the freshness / how long it sat in a truck on the way to the store, and I think the added fiber is a good thing. I’m fine taking supplemental calcium. RP is pretty much against fiber, seeing it as promoting both good and bad bacteria equally which I think is poorly informed. There is a quote somewhere from RP saying something along the lines that if one starves candida from sugar, the candida will grow so hungry that they leave the intestine and start infecting other organs and therefore you want to keep them happy with sugar so they do not do major damage elsewhere. I think the same logic should apply therefore to keeping the lower gut bacteria happy with starch.
 
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TeaRex14

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He is pro animal protein in that you will find many quotes from him on the anti thyroid qualities of beans etc and dangers of starchy foods. I agree with most of RP’s general ideas, but certain specifics like beans being bad or tons of liver and crustaceans being good I find somewhat odd. I’m also not sure if his proposed potato water truly is a decent way to get protein... The more I have looked in to it myself I think foods that do not spike an endotoxic response are the most valuable. I get a much worse response from meats than beans. I think it must have to do with the difference in iron availability to gram negative bacteria throughout the body. I think heme iron is more bioavailable and therefore more dangerous in promoting chronic inflammation. Add to that the way that high saturated fat messes up gut permeability and promotes the growth of gram negative bacteria. Low fat dairy is a better source of protein because of this, and high in calcium which blocks iron, which is part of why RP mentions low fat dairy so frequently. The more I have researched the issue myself, I see diets high in polyphenols and fiber and low in saturated fat as being far superior in benefiting gram positive bacteria and lowering the prevalence of endotoxin producing bacteria. I have also found that there are certain foods which inherently have higher amounts of endotoxin in them, mainly creams, aged cheeses, and meats. In my mind beans and low fat milk are almost equals in their overall value, with beans you have poor bio available iron and anti nutrients which act to chelate iron and balance the gut ph in favor of the good bacteria, with low fat milk you get low iron and the iron blocking of calcium. Both are similarly gut friendly. I prefer rice and beans over milk as a major protein source for various reasons, largely I do not have to worry so much about the freshness / how long it sat in a truck on the way to the store, and I think the added fiber is a good thing. RP is pretty much against fiber, seeing it as promoting both good and bad bacteria equally which I think is poorly informed. There is a quote somewhere from RP saying something along the lines that if one starves candida from sugar, the candida will grow so hungry that they leave the intestine and start infecting other organs and therefore you want to keep them happy with sugar so they do not do major damage elsewhere. I think the same logic should apply therefore to keeping the lower gut bacteria happy with starch.
Yeah I can't really say I follow Ray Peat verbatim, that could lead you down a possibly dangerous road of orthorexia. I'm sure there's people out there trying to sustain themselves on nothing but skim milk, orange juice, and gelatin. I don't think that's something 99% of the forum users would advocate, or Peat. I tolerate legumes fairly well when they've been soaked first. I do the Weston Price acid soak, water + lemon juice. Chickpeas, black bean soup, and lentils are some of my favorites. Homemade bread is a decent choice for me too. I also like potatoes, but I don't tolerate them no where near as good as the soaked legumes. Potato fiber gives me a huge serotonin surge, and I can't eat them without taking some cyproheptadine. Most of my carbs are sugar though, predominantly fruit based with juice and coke as secondaries. I don't eat much meat either, about 3 or 4 servings a week, usually something gelatinous like skimmed oxtail soup. I don't obsess about removing fiber, refined stuff like flour and pasta I tolerate really well. Well cooked veggies (mostly leafy greens) I tolerate well. I think the carrot salad really helps me. The saturated fat thing is something people just have to experiment with. I've seen some people say they do great on a high saturated fat diet. After much experimentation I do best on a diet that's around 15% of fat, mostly saturated. High fat diets of any kind don't fare well with me. Coconut oil also seems to be best, as it doesn't put weight on me. Protein sources for me, besides the aforementioned meat, is lowfat cottage cheese, 1% milk, lowfat string cheese, 1 egg per day, liver once weekly, and various shellfish (oysters, mussels, scallops, shrimp) quite often. So I don't really follow any predetermined dietary plan. Best way to describe my diet would be pseudo-pescetarian, that eats gelatin frequently and liver weekly.
 

lvysaur

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but certain specifics like beans being bad or tons of liver and crustaceans being good I find somewhat odd. I’m also not sure if his proposed potato water truly is a decent way to get protein
I think a lot of this is due to a fanatic interpretation of Peat's words by orthorexic people. Pretty much everyone in the world has evolved to eat grains/legumes in some capacity, maybe excepting the milk drinking nomads of the Sahara.
 
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I think a lot of this is due to a fanatic interpretation of Peat's words by orthorexic people. Pretty much everyone in the world has evolved to eat grains/legumes in some capacity, maybe excepting the milk drinking nomads of the Sahara.

Maybe he has since changed his stance a bit, since this level of anti-bean writing is not found on his website...

https://www.toxinless.com/ray-peat-the-bean-syndrome.pdf



For some reason not clearly explained he still says they are inferior protein....
 
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lvysaur

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Maybe he has since changed his stance a bit, since this level of anti-bean writing is not found on his website...
I think all that proves is that it is sub-optimal to thrive on beans alone. I don't think many people here advocate for a vegan diet, so I think it's a moot point.

Pretty much everything has "toxins" of some sort, including milk and probably even fruit. Also I agree with him as far as consuming large, dry beans. They are bad.

Small beans are far more tolerable, and sprouted beans are as well. Sprouting of legumes increases protein availability, decreases antinutrients, etc. I don't think there's a good reason to have orthorexia toward those.
 

boxers

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Peaters have the worst blood panels... inflammation, low testosterone, low thyroid, high cholesterol despite following this diet for years

I have yet to see a healthy blood panel on his forum..
 
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Richiebogie

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For some people yes, it [veganism] is an intervention, however as Seventh Day Adventists prove, it is possible long term, but other things are probably important like close knit communities, no smoking or drinking etc.

I know seventh day Adventists who eat a little meat in private. They are very flexible people as was their founding prophet. Ellen G White wrote or copied hundreds of books and had visions to suit all situations.

Perhaps "cheating vegan" is the healthiest diet!
 

TeaRex14

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Peaters have the worst blood panels... inflammation, low testosterone, low thyroid, high cholesterol despite following this diet for years

I have yet to see a healthy blood panel on his forum..
There is no such thing as the "Ray Peat diet". My blood work is great, only people who need help post their blood work. A lot of people come to this forum because they're already sick. Sounds like you need to reevaluate how well you know Ray's work. Shouldn't comment on things you know nothing about.
 

Runenight201

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Just want to add that I went from "healthy" Vegan to Peat and has only experienced positive health effects. It took some time to let all his information sink in as I experienced some lighter cognitive dissonance as I was strongly biased by a Nootropic and Vegan community. But nothing took the stress, anxiety and depression away like a diet after Ray Peat`s guidelines. Vegan made me borderline bipolar, like I was 50% on low days and 150% on high days. With this diet I`m consistently at 125%.

I do think bipolarism comes down to diet. I essentially was bipolar eating starches, running a huge high when I had a lot of glucose running through my system but then crashing hard and being depressed with taxed digestion and very ravenously hungry afterwards.

Today I cut out all starch and ate a very high meat and egg diet with some oj and sugar. No dairy. I feel the best I’ve felt in a while, and was able to work for a full 8 hours with no mood swings or fatigue.

I think starch is a doable fuel source for those with healthy digestion. In those with bad digestions, the safest foods are meat, eggs, sugar, fruit, veggies. And even within that category, one has to pick and choose the right types of foods.
 

Anders86

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I do think bipolarism comes down to diet. I essentially was bipolar eating starches, running a huge high when I had a lot of glucose running through my system but then crashing hard and being depressed with taxed digestion and very ravenously hungry afterwards.

Today I cut out all starch and ate a very high meat and egg diet with some oj and sugar. No dairy. I feel the best I’ve felt in a while, and was able to work for a full 8 hours with no mood swings or fatigue.

I think starch is a doable fuel source for those with healthy digestion. In those with bad digestions, the safest foods are meat, eggs, sugar, fruit, veggies. And even within that category, one has to pick and choose the right types of foods.
I do think bipolarism comes down to diet. I essentially was bipolar eating starches, running a huge high when I had a lot of glucose running through my system but then crashing hard and being depressed with taxed digestion and very ravenously hungry afterwards.

Today I cut out all starch and ate a very high meat and egg diet with some oj and sugar. No dairy. I feel the best I’ve felt in a while, and was able to work for a full 8 hours with no mood swings or fatigue.

I think starch is a doable fuel source for those with healthy digestion. In those with bad digestions, the safest foods are meat, eggs, sugar, fruit, veggies. And even within that category, one has to pick and choose the right types of foods.

Yes I believe starches was the doom. I couldn`t even Intermittent Fasting as I would often crash hard after first meal, feeling great right before.

Sounds good! The gut is a gentle beast, we are better off treating it right :happy:
 

CDT

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I was on a plant based diet in 2017 for about 8 months. I never had dhiarrea and my poops were the best.


Ever since I switched back to eating meat I would have dhiarrea once in a while.

Ever since I found out about Ray peat diet I have dhiarrea every week.

I came on here to learn. The only thing I've learned is a lot of the advice given on here is b.s. People say stuff without empirical evidence all the time.

Not too long ago I posted about me being diagnosed with arterial thoracic outlet syndrome, back pain, and eczyma. A majority of responses had to do with me possibly having a low thyroid. How the hell does having a low thyroid have anything to do with said symptoms? I even had tests done checking my t3 and 4 levels which were all fine and people still said I could have a low thyroid. Makes no sense.

If anything at least let this be a reminder to trust no one. Maybe it's just me but the whole Ray peat stuff just ain't working. I showed much more energy and pooped much better while on plant based diet.
This is wonderful news for someone who has seen so much anti-vegan content lately. May I ask what your diet looks like? I am currently a vegan and would like to improve my diet towards including minerals for hair growth. Did you ever notice hair loss on your plant based diet? Thanks in advance for your time!
 

boxers

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There is no such thing as the "Ray Peat diet". My blood work is great, only people who need help post their blood work. A lot of people come to this forum because they're already sick. Sounds like you need to reevaluate how well you know Ray's work. Shouldn't comment on things you know nothing abo
Lets see the blood work.
Btw the people that have bad test have been doing peat stuff for years. You could be right, but i never seen the recommendations here actually improve blood work in anyone.
Usually most people here have very high ldl and high ferritin and low testosterone.
You rarely see that when following a low fat plant based diet.
My ferritin was 177 following peats work. I still incorporate peats ideas, but now follow a plant based. My ferritin is a healthy 45. Also ldl went from 120 to 80
 
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TeaRex14

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Lets see the blood work.
Btw the people that have bad test have been doing peat stuff for years. You could be right, but i never seen the recommendations here actually improve blood work in anyone.
Usually most people here have very high ldl and high ferritin and low testosterone.
You rarely see that when following a low fat plant based diet.
My ferritin was 177 following peats work. I still incorporate peats ideas, but now follow a plant based. My ferritin is a healthy 45. Also ldl went from 120 to 80
Your point doesn't make any sense. People come here to correct metabolism and thyroid. When you have low metabolism and low thyroid, certain hormones are going to be imbalanced. Building a straw man about this and trolling over it is kind of stupid. And evidently, you weren't following Peat's work. At least not his basic message which is, "My recommendation is to eat to increase the metabolic rate (usually temperature and heart rate) rather than any particular foods." You said you were following "this diet" and gave no specifics. Peat gives no official dietary guidelines, so whatever you followed was a result of your own incognizance. Sounds like you got caught up in a orthorexia lifestyle. Your plant based claim is puzzling as well, I eat over 400 grams of carbohydrate everyday, sounds plant based to me. The moral here is you can't blame someone else for your own ignorance. And I can't provide you with blood work because I never keep it on hand. I'm a mid 20s healthy male that needs no help with any troubling health markers, so I don't have blood work on stand by. I had some trouble before I started applying Peat's recommendations. I was doing low carb keto and developed a few problems. I suppose I could contact my physician who keeps my records, but it's really not worth my time just to prove to an internet skeptic. At any rate, keep doing whatever you want, but trying to twist the reality of the situation to fit your presumptions is wrong. Only the people who need help post their blood work. Everyone else, the majority, doesn't need help.
 

Source Code

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I went vegan for a year and I went all chubby like skinny fat I feel much better now than I did then, If it works for you do it, Ray peat encourages experimenting
 

lvysaur

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@Kt400 what's your blood type?

Type As have less stomach acid, and Type O more. (Type B in the middle)
It perfectly describes my situation, always had intense protein cravings since childhood (sometimes light fish, other times heavy meats). Only found out I was O recently.
Meanwhile I knew tons of kids who didn't care about protein and instead got excited over candies, starch, and cheese.

Type As should be eating less muscle meat (eggs are okay, dunno for cheese), while Os should be eating more. This is one of the most evidence-based tenets of the blood type diet (even if you don't believe the rest, this part is basically fact)
 

PaRa

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@Kt400 what's your blood type?

Type As have less stomach acid, and Type O more. (Type B in the middle)
It perfectly describes my situation, always had intense protein cravings since childhood (sometimes light fish, other times heavy meats). Only found out I was O recently.
Meanwhile I knew tons of kids who didn't care about protein and instead got excited over candies, starch, and cheese.

Type As should be eating less muscle meat (eggs are okay, dunno for cheese), while Os should be eating more. This is one of the most evidence-based tenets of the blood type diet (even if you don't believe the rest, this part is basically fact)

i crave meat cheese milk etc since my youngest ages and I’m A
When I was coming back from school (near 15-17h) at like 10-14 years, I constantly went straight to the refrigerator to eat tons of cheese, dry meat, salmon etc and I craved it again at all the meals

schoolmates were like **** how do you do to eat this so they were eating kinder bueno or haribo while I was destroying prots
 

CDT

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I was on a plant based diet in 2017 for about 8 months. I never had dhiarrea and my poops were the best.


Ever since I switched back to eating meat I would have dhiarrea once in a while.

Ever since I found out about Ray peat diet I have dhiarrea every week.

I came on here to learn. The only thing I've learned is a lot of the advice given on here is b.s. People say stuff without empirical evidence all the time.

Not too long ago I posted about me being diagnosed with arterial thoracic outlet syndrome, back pain, and eczyma. A majority of responses had to do with me possibly having a low thyroid. How the hell does having a low thyroid have anything to do with said symptoms? I even had tests done checking my t3 and 4 levels which were all fine and people still said I could have a low thyroid. Makes no sense.

If anything at least let this be a reminder to trust no one. Maybe it's just me but the whole Ray peat stuff just ain't working. I showed much more energy and pooped much better while on plant based diet.

It's funny how all these people are commenting on your thread and questioning you with regard to your experiences, yet when meat-based people advocate the meat diet, all they base it off of is anecdote.
If you're eating properly and not consuming massive amounts of junk plant foods, then I think this diet is actually working well for you. Your protein intake can actually be lower if you activity level is lower (in fact, that seems to be much SAFER. Protein intake could increase depending on activity level, but most of the guys on RP forums are remiss in self-care and health, including myself, and we just basically jack off all day and eat Chips Ahoy, wondering why our life sucks).

I feel great on the vegetarian diet. Albeit, I do tend to drink a lot of milk, and on those days, I feel like ash.
A lot of people will say its the detrimental affect on the thyroid that seemingly makes the plant based diet feel good for people (David Asprey's "Euphoric thyroid" claim), but I would recommend going along with the diet if it works for you.

One think about Ray is that he is immensely wrong when it comes to addressing endotoxins caused by PUFAS, and endotoxins from fiber-eating gut bacteria in general. The human genome grew alongside fiber eating-bacteria for millions of years, compared to the relatively recent addition of "meats' into the diet. Keeping up with fibers, starches and fermented grains is ALWAYS better for you than any empty muscle meat.

When it comes to organ meats and bivalves and these "meat mamas" that pack "nootrients", there exist a number of prominent concerns with toxicity and impact on gut flora.
Anything that supports a good gut biodiversity is best because, at least in light of what Dr. Peat has already said, minimizing endotoxin is desirable, but not at the cost of altering the micro biome.

Dont fall into this hype of DHAs EPAs and antinutrients that the carnivore clowns will say. A lot of them got off their TV Dinner Microwave Tray diets and are feelings the ostensible benefits of lower endotoxin. Unless you're Albert Einstein's genetically modified clone that has 2000% the IQ of the original, then you dont need massive amounts of omega 3s to sustain yourself. Like, a few eggs a week will do it. Leafy greens give you omegas. So does seaweed. Anything that you can get an "oil" from gives you omegas.


SOMEONE, PLEASE LINK ME A CASE WHERE AN ADULT PLANT BASED DIETER HAD ISSUES WITH THEIR BRAIN DUE TO B12 AND OMEGA 3s?!?!
 

GenericName86

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Type As have less stomach acid, and Type O more. (Type B in the middle)
It perfectly describes my situation, always had intense protein cravings since childhood (sometimes light fish, other times heavy meats). Only found out I was O recently.
Meanwhile I knew tons of kids who didn't care about protein and instead got excited over candies, starch, and cheese.

Type As should be eating less muscle meat (eggs are okay, dunno for cheese), while Os should be eating more. This is one of the most evidence-based tenets of the blood type diet (even if you don't believe the rest, this part is basically fact)

Wow i was literally just reading about blood types and recommended diets lol. read the O type and stomach acid 0n Peter D'adamo's site. I'm 0 negative and started to look into it as I've recently heard people say positive things about the advice.
 

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