Aesthetics / Muscle / Dieting

[Andman]

if i rember correctly the difference between low-NEAT and high NEAT people was actually up to like 2000 kcal per day

 

[Jon]

if i rember correctly the difference between low-NEAT and high NEAT people was actually up to like 2000 kcal per day

Haha! Wow, I feel like a dummy for not solidifying that part . So yeah, people should keep moving!

 

[Andman]

Haha! Wow, I feel like a dummy for not solidifying that part . So yeah, people should keep moving!

yeah its a ridiculous difference, ive tried to figure out if having high NEAT is good from a peat perspective, or more of a nervous/stress driven reaction (like on stimulants for example)

 

[Jon]

yeah its a ridiculous difference, ive tried to figure out if having high NEAT is good from a peat perspective, or more of a nervous/stress driven reaction (like on stimulants for example)

I think it could be good or bad, there’s a balance to everything right? I think it’s ok if you’re not having sns dominance issues. I think usually if you’re fed enough you don’t get things like that, but I notice with me being someone who has a high NEAT level, it’s extremely easy for me to under eat and not realize if I’m not tracking. I’ll notice if all the sudden I’m wide awake at 3am. Then I know my cortisol is through the roof and I need to eat more. Sometimes it’s not even that I’m waking up in the middle of the night, instead it’s that I don’t get my normal nocturnal tumesence which I’ve come to realize is largely influenced by me eating adequately.

Even when I wake up in the middle of the night I don’t feel hungry though.

 

[Wagner83]

Could be toxins stored for some people, it follows logic to think that the more fat a person has, the longer they have to diet for, the more toxins they ridding themselves of, the more they will feel like crap til it’s over.

But I believe that a majority of the negative effects of dieting comes from hormonal settling points being disrupted. Since bodyfat is the largest producer of leptin in your body, it is highly disruptive when you lose fat since your satiety is based on leptin levels, especially if you have a large amount of fat you’re losing. Just like insulin levels, baseline leptin levels are generally higher in higher body fat individuals than their leaner counterparts. This creates a hormonal settling point that the body entrains to maintain, thus if you dip below this level or rise too high above it, the body will work to stabilize the amount of leptin within its “normal range”. Because people’s ratio of lean mass to fat mass is so damn unique to each person I believe this is why it’s very difficult to peg who will do well on a diet and who won’t. For instance, take a very overweight individual who also has plenty of lean mass underneath that, then take an overweight individual with the same height and weight stats as the former person but much less lean mass and you will see major differences in how losing fat affects there leptin levels and how they feel. And like I said before no matter who you are, dieting sucks eventually lol. A loss of bmr should be expected when losing lbs of fat, that’s just basic thermodynamics. A large portion of TDEE comes from daily NEAT, and generally the better someone feels, the more things they tend to do. I think this sort of positive feed back loop is common among people who go from overweight to fit because they tend to feel better and develop a higher baseline of fitness so their stamina increases which in turn makes them more apt to engage in any sort physical activity and for longer than usual. All this usually amounts to a higher maintenance calorie level, but often doesn’t really seem to be that much more activity than they did before. It’s amazing how just seemingly subtle increases in activity make a huge difference for TDEE, I read a study where they had a group of people they separated into fidgeters and non fidgeters and had them live in the lab for a few weeks. They found that fidgeters (leg bouncing, foot tapping, hand tapping) burn 150-350 calories (or something close to those numbers lol I can’t remember) more throughout the day than people who don’t! And that was just sitting around all day! Imagine what regular cleaning and vacuuming of your house will do? Or lots of regular yard work? I think that’s a huge account as to why people say “I’ve increased my baseline metabolism without adding weight” barring them fixing a clinical thyroid issue, or over stress issue since the sns dominance is probably more responsible for insulin resistance than anything else out there.

Interesting thoughts, so I guess you are saying that while losing fat, one will have food cravings which are not necessarily meaningful or relevant to his/her real needs to function. About the increase in calories thanks to tapping a foot, I guess all those posts I made on here at least prevented me from becoming too fat, much to the dismay of all the forum members who had their own basal metabolic rate lowered as a result of reading them. What do you think coffee / redbull when one is trying to lose phat ?

Sometimes it’s not even that I’m waking up in the middle of the night, instead it’s that I don’t get my normal nocturnal tumesence which I’ve come to realize is largely influenced by me eating adequately.

What helps and what harms your nocturnal tumescence ?

 

[Jon]

Interesting thoughts, so I guess you are saying that while losing fat, one will have food cravings which are not necessarily meaningful or relevant to his/her real needs to function. About the increase in calories thanks to tapping a foot, I guess all those posts I made on here at least prevented me from becoming too fat, much to the dismay of all the forum members who had their own basal metabolic rate lowered as a result of reading them. What do you think coffee / redbull when one is trying to lose phat ?


What helps and what harms your nocturnal tumescence ?

Oh no, not entirely :). When you’re dieting you’ll still have cravings that signify something, but it probably can be viewed more as your body’s “desire” rather than need. Usually the cravings you’ll feel in a diet are for anything with a high nutrient density in terms of macronutrients. This is obviously because you’re losing tissue (fat mostly) and your body sees this as a threat to survival since your body is hardwired to react to the acute rather than the chronic. Micronutrients aren’t really something you crave during a calorie deficit aside from salt if your deficit is to extreme or again if you’re already pretty lean since sodium will raise cortisol and thus blunt pain, help fat cells keep their size via edema (water retention), and increase the rate of lean tissue catabolization. If you’re that bad though that you’re just craving salt like a pregnant woman, it’s probably time to slam the breaks on dieting cause something has gotten untoward in your process. So yes, those craving CAN signify something more dire (like in the case of salt cravings) but no, usually it’s just that your body likes to keep its fat lol.

I should also add that you’ll crave complex carbs like bread or pasta during a diet because not only do they directly lower cortisol, but they also spike leptin in large quantities. This is also why I suggest 2 day carb refeeds interspersed in a diet cycle at current Maintenance calories.

I think stimulants are great for dieting if they help you get through the harder parts of your day. I especially like them for exercise, but I feel that there’s a very delicate balance to keep with you fatigue management when using stims during a diet. Reason being that stims usually raise cortisol to some degree and that will be compounded with your already heightened cortisol levels from dieting (and exercise if you do train) which can all equate to interrupted sleep or insomnia. The trick is to use just enough that you get benefits, but not so much you can’t sleep.

First most important thing for morning wood is adequate calories. When you don’t eat enough, your body just won’t respond well. Next is micronutrients, which are all somehow important for male health, but I’d say getting adequate minerals, and making sure your ratios are in decent ranges (as in zinc:copper for example) is something that helped me. The beauty of it too is that getting all your micronutrients from food can be done with very low cals or very high cals :).

 

[Re.Generate]

Yes I probably am too absolutist haha, I am just tired of reading stuff that doesn't make sense rationally as a whole. Like reducing burning fatty acids for fuel while still getting rid of body fat, it's contradictory. It seems to me that this will go in cycles since it is impossible to avoid some fat storage over time, and for periods the body will need to burn that fat, as in burning fatty acids.

hey - realize this is old and still of interest to me
My understanding is that fatty acids, or at the very least pufa, because the body sees it as a toxin, can be glucoridated (bad spelling sorry) from the body - that’s then a mechanism by which the body can lose fat without “burning it” per say - I could be wrong but I understand this as a separate process to the normal oxidizing of fat for energy - it is more like it is wasting the pufa rather than using it.

then of course I guess we get fatter during a reset period - perhaps whilst the body is making the shift from pufa to sfa in storage - maybe saturated acids take up more space?

but I understand then that, once the pufa is gone, burning the newly stored saturated acids away comes with much less metabolic slowdown due to the nature of saturated fats not being inflammatory in the same way - guess this is why in the intuitive eating community it seems normal to expect gaining loads of fat for a year or so whilst eating a huge calorie excess before then losing again - the problem is they tend to do it with pufa too which probably has its own problems down the line - but the general mechanism as I guess it would be to increase the metabolic rate sooooo much through calories that it eventually catches up, your hormones go sky high, and this new high metabolic rate slowly burns off the fat and also reduces the appetite.

guessing this would all be greatly sped up by an experiment- for a month to low fat but make sure you are taking in ALL vitamins and minerals in large quantities, eating tons of sugars and protein, and then also putting in lots of the pro metabolic substances - perhaps that would speed it all up?

just my thoughts

harry

 

[aniciete]

Removing all forms of dairy with the exception of butter for a minimum of 2 weeks can be helpful. If struggling with weight gain, brain fog, constipation, low motivation etc., that can all be possible symptoms of the opiogenic effects of casomorphins in dairy. When I first took out dairy, I dropped 20lbs of what seemed to be water weight over the course of a few weeks, plus my libido, motivation and bowel
movements normalized to my pre dairy baseline.

I eat 2x as many carbs as protein minimum and I eat 4 meals a day. So I divide my total number of carbs by the 4 meals. I would say theres an element of individuality tho. Also, this was to determine a baseline amount of carbs for me when constructing a diet to start. I rarely follow exactly what I wrote. I often go on feel alot with the baseline in mind. However, I am not trying to lose weight and I have been eating consistently well for years at this point, so our contexts may differ.

Thank you for sharing your experience with dairy. I’ve read a couple of your posts and my experience is almost identical. Since June I’ve lost around 20 pounds which seems to have been water weight from dairy. I’ve maintained around 180 pounds for 2 years until incorporating loads of cow milk last winter which ballooned my weight up to almost 210. Since eliminating the dairy in t he beginning of summer the weight has melted off even though I’m eating 3000+ calories a day.

 

[Vajra]

From what I have read and what I have experimented with there is not need for more than 30-40g of protein in a meal, especially if your younger (max .6-.8g of protein a day). The excess protein just gets oxidized and at that point you might as well eat more carbs or fats.

Source on this? And from experimentation, how could you tell?