Sexual Arousal Is A Stressor

kyle

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The simple truth surrounding nofap, porn and compulsive sexual behavior is arousal is a stress reponse. Sexual arousal is not outside the ordainary understanding of the body's capacity to adapt as some would argue.

This applies to the ladies too, as there are processes and changes women experience from sex.

The idea that porn, masturbation alleviates stress or that abstaing from it is itself stressful is a fallacy. Certainly someone doing it compulsively for a long time tries to stop is going to feel the pain of its absence.

But this is the equivalent of stress hormones dropping and making someone feel tired. It is alleviating something that is akin to taking cortisone.

Mammals are known to have a capacity to sustain this state of arousal for long periods. This is known as the Coolidge effect.

Porn and fantasy is able to elevate the aroused state for long periods. But that does not mean it is harmless. The fun lasts until it doesnt. Simple as.

It is certainly not harmless or neutral in its social consequences as doing it has broad rippling affects in someones life.

At this point you enter into the realm of ethics. But as far as its biological significance, it is plain as day what is going on.
 

opethfeldt

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Yes, the arousal itself is definitely stressful. Orgasm is calming and brings the organism back to baseline. This is the mechanism of action (at least partially) of some of the more effective human pheromones. They increase cortisol and thus increase the female's chances of being willing to have sex to break that stress response. Attractive partners in general generate the same effect. Sex addicts also tend to be highly stressed people, I've noticed.
 

Tarmander

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Just saying things are stressful is kind of pointless because you can say everything is stressful to some extent or another. If you had zero cortisol levels you would die.

Men with healthy testosterone levels are going to be sexually aroused whether they want to or not, and the organism is set up to deal with that stress. But you go overboard and it becomes deleterious like you said.

The prolactin release of orgasm is worse than retaining the sexual energy and using it
 
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I think you're on to something here. Plenty of compulsive masturbators seem to chronically align with sexual response cycles. Some have clearly expressed/pointed out here that those who "over masturbate" or such are people with problems/issues -- and then the cycle of this "escape" in to this rush/effect is itself possibly damaging.

I get how some may want to pull back and not drive this down an anti-masturbation/sex/etc. angle, but really think about it. Isn't sexual capacity -- especially at an early stage -- a stressful thing? I think kids who have longer "childhoods" or even no full transition in to adulthood could live way, way longer than someone driven down the cortisol/stress/serotonin state from early puberty, societal programming/whatnot, and many other downfalls we can guess as time passes/people age and decline through the social order or "rules" of sorts through our timelines in life. Look at teen pregnancies -- do they give any vibes of "good health" or such? Usually not to me at least. Early sexual activity and etc. is just earlier digging of your own grave (with possible extra stresses and so on), which is then possibly harder to get out of over time once you've "aged" 10 years in like 3 or 4. This is not to say it's the only factor, but it is a factor and that's all one might need to account for. May sound funny, but maybe for some people sex/arousal/masturbation/etc. is largely all they see/do -- they may not work much or have any other hobbies, passions, drive, activities, etc. If you build a society around meaninglessness and hopelessness it doesn't seem difficult to observe people going heavily down the stressful paths of sexual over-doings. And especially for some the excitatory aspect of deep/consistent arousal too much can be even more harmful physiologically if one is less conditioned for it, but able to otherwise "execute" the sexual response easily/compulsively -- like maybe being able to drink lots of booze and feel relatively okay at first but not normally be able to metabolize alcohol very sufficiently for some reason (weak example perhaps).

It's easy to ignore or discredit, but possibly until everything that is too stressful for one is managed well could you always face the same issues, psychologically and physiologically as a whole. The reason for the "nofap" success might just be that -- stopping themselves from falling under this compulsive escape through super-frequent sexual arousal cycles and the physiology that comes with it. It might be important to try and reduce some sexual leaning temporarily at any means possible if it will break the vicious cycle. You don't have to "nofap" or whatever but just maybe keep distracted with things for a while and not strongly succumb to this turn of events that leads one down the over-activation of the stress/arousal flow. Like anything we know too much or too little of things can be bad, so nothing suggests that sexual arousal isn't down this road either. Also, remember that the physiology of arousal can come with it some nasty/harmful elevation marks of things like estrogen, prolactin, serotonin, etc. If one aligns themselves constantly to this via their distress/disdain/metabolic & psychological issues it's very easy to see how this whole "trend" of sorts can be problematic.

I mean at one point I would think this isn't an issue, but since many of us know here that too much of practically anything could make things go wrong, why not sexuality too? Ray I think even mentioned (or maybe it was Georgi/Haidut) that too much sexual nature can trigger retroviruses/etc. and this can cause disease, health issues, you name it. Often people ascribe extreme sexuality with some often intrinsic (though arguable if extrinsic too) issues -- and the immediate compulsiveness can be the need for stimulation in an otherwise dull life/experiences.

I guess for stressed, lonely, depressed, estrogen/serotonin driven people or various combinations thereof it can be easy to see how those can end up compulsively trying stimulating (but usually bound to be harmful) things over time. I think maybe the healthiest people can get aroused, but see it more as fleeting -- it's probably those with other significant issues that cave in to the compulsive nature of it that's more degrading physiologically. I mean you could even ask Ray himself and might get something similar to what I'm trying to get across here. Many things can easily become "unhealthy" by nature if the way they are implemented or handled is subpar (such as comparing an approach to a goal between someone depressed/sick vs. one healthier/feeling more vibrant). If the "sick" one falls in to something that gives them that stimulation they're otherwise "missing" in a sense, I guess it's easy to grow dependent on it even if it's "cheap" stimulation that brings more harm down the road (think like drug addicts -- I don't see it as meaningless 100% or else they would not do drugs, but the effects over time from the abuse are much worse than the gains temporarily or etc.). Really the simple "recipe" for this could be distraction for some -- finding a better "energy outlet" in place of caving in to said addiction and not "wasting" certain avenues that are more degrading than enriching overall -- and probably just generally focusing on overall health from (many) possible ways I suppose.

Like the "deficiency" approach you sometimes might consider replenishing something "overdone" with the opposite -- like excitation vs. inhibition. Simply learning to calm the stress/sexual response cycle can be all that's need to be a "game changer" for some who are habitually stuck in this/caving in constantly, day after day to stress/subpar healthy drive to do such acts/cycles. In short/to summarize perhaps healthier people might be more sensitive to sexual responses but less "driven" to act on them compulsively for various reasons -- and also not being physiologically conditioned for such a thing perhaps over time.
 
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lvysaur

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This is all well and good, but the central issue with "nofap" is that they think it is excessive orgasm that causes stress.

When in fact, it is stress that causes excessive orgasm.

Nofappers fool themselves into thinking nofap works, because during the healthy unstressed phases, they are able to commit to "not fapping". But they think it is the not fapping that led to the health. They reverse the cause and effect.

If you're stressed, you will feel like orgasming, and holding back will be very difficult. That's why it never happens, and you always give in. Willpower is a myth which has been disproven in various studies. You shouldn't need willpower when things are running optimally. The most successful people don't have more willpower, they simply lack the desire that would make willpower necessary in the first place.

Nofap/noporn have good advice and raise good points but they are only a tiny part of the stress feedback loop and their importance is somewhat overrated. Still it's a good idea to follow the advice to some extent.
Tell this to your teenage self
Weren't most people here eating a poorer diet during their teenage years than they are now?

Youth is health, but bad health + youth should not be equated to good health + youth.
Men with healthy testosterone levels are going to be sexually aroused whether they want to or not
Admittedly I haven't checked my T levels, but my appearance and attitude look more androgenic and desirable when I have a lower and more controllable sex drive.

My drive becomes less reactive, and more internal. Getting aroused at random times for no particular reason, as opposed to whenever you see a bikini girl on TV.

The arousal is also much easier to bear, and there is no urgency to orgasm. Also much fuller/harder erection.
 
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TheSir

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Men with healthy testosterone levels are going to be sexually aroused whether they want to or not
I think sexual response has far more to do with Pavlovian conditioning than many realize. Based on my own experience, and I suspect @ecstatichamster can confirm, once you gain a sufficient level of mastery over your sexual impulse, your libido becomes an on-off switch. You will, quite literally, be able to determine whether or not to trigger arousal. There will be greater amount of "leeway" between non-aroused and aroused state.
 

Jib

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Agreed.

My body was literally convulsing the other night from sexual arousal. Teeth chattering, body contracting so hard my core was hurting. I've been abstaining from ejaculation and going through some amazing things just in a couple weeks.

Been working out daily for the first time in over a year. Only change I made was stopping ejaculation. And as for masturbation, I've aimed to keep my arousal level at a 4 or 5 at most. This was spurred on by severe premature ejaculation brought on by a psychiatric medication that was so severe, I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to have sex again. It is that bad. In the meantime, I'm committing to semen retention, and limiting masturbation to low-arousal stimulation. I'm not trying to become a fanatic and freak out if I get an erection.

However, erections are parasympathetic dominant, while ejaculation is sympathetic dominant. I've been obsessed with controlling my sexuality, simply because my ability to have sex depends on it. The premature ejaculation caused by this medication was so severe, as I said, it made sex impossible, and faced with the possibility of never having sex again for the rest of my life? The idea of committing to semen retention is not so bad at all.

So even for optimal sexual control, I think avoiding excessive arousal is wise. Allow yourself to become sexually energized, but use it as an opportunity to meditate. This is like everyone recommending to think about baseball during sex to distract yourself so you last longer -- it's just going more in-depth and consciously shifting yourself into a parasympahetic dominant state, while keeping the sympathetic nervous system activation as far away as you can.

I had tons of sex with my ex girlfriend for years. It was great. However, the constant focus on going hard/fast, ejaculating, etc., was very exhausting. Honestly, I'm not sure if I could avoid ejaculation with a partner. I'm recalibrating myself currently, getting more control over my sexual urges, and cultivating awareness about this parasympathetic vs. sympathetic state.

Having an erection does not equal arousal, in the super sympathetic nervous system stimulation sense. I've found that having erections seems to give me a lot of energy, or at least, the experience of it feels very energizing, especially when I control and "recirculate" that energy. I've spent years, many more than the vast, VAST majority of people, masturbating to porn. And masturbating a lot more than the vast majority of people.

So no one can tell me otherwise. Over 16 years of compulsive masturbation and heavy porn use and it did absolutely nothing but stress me out and exhaust me more and more.

This journey started with severe premature ejaculation brought on by medication, and a desire to fix it. Ironically, that's led to more control over my sexual urges and no longer even being bothered that I'm not having sex. My craving for affection has also been zero. It used to be sky high. This stuff goes deep. Even innocuous things like "twelve hugs a day" or whatever it is. **** that. I am all for affection, but people don't need to feel like they're sentenced to poor health and death just because they live solitary lives, for whatever reason.

Take your power back. I'm trying not to go overboard here, because I'm new to this journey, but it is not a coincidence that in the couple weeks since I stopped ejaculating, I have been working out DAILY, when the most I have worked out consistently in the past YEAR has been maybe twice a week at the most, due to what I've thought was severe CFS or some other ailment.

If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's probably a duck. I'm just reminding myself and other people here to stay on the path if you're on it. If 16 years of heavy porn use and completely carelessly ejaculating as frequently as I wanted to was really helping me at all, I think I would've known that by now.

IMO it's easier to commit to this while single. If I had a girlfriend or had any interest in hooking up/casual sex, I feel like right now, I would not be able to abstain from ejaculation at all. This is also what leads me to believe I'd end up in a co-dependent relationship or situation again, and all my focus would go to having orgasms with this person, giving them, receiving them, then wanting affection, then feeling lonely/jealous, whatever.

I am done with that. For now. Once you've "been there, done that" and have had tons of sex, and masturbated carelessly to heavy amounts of porn, it puts things into perspective. I am really enjoying the energy and clarity of mind I've been experiencing while retaining. I do hope that over months or even years if necessary, this will cure my premature ejaculation, but the irony is I'm also okay now with the idea of never having sex again. It's difficult but peace of mind is a lot more valuable than the fleeting pleasure of sex. And this is coming from someone who had unlimited amounts of sex for several years. I do think experiencing that is important to get it out of your system, so you're not wondering what you're missing out on.
 

TheSir

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This is all well and good, but the central issue with "nofap" is that they think it is excessive orgasm that causes stress.

When in fact, it is stress that causes excessive orgasm.
Why couldn't it be both? Is it an outlandish notion that liberarly expulsing fluid rich in content will lead to a stress response as the body scrambles to make up for what is lost? Stress causing sexual excess and sexual excess causing stress would create the kind of behavioral loop you frequently see in chronic masturbators -- only the stress response is delayed in comparison to the initial effect of relaxation, hence each attempt at relieving the tension would only create new tension down the line.
 

lvysaur

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Why couldn't it be both? Is it an outlandish notion
Oh, I agree that it's both. But based on empiricism (own experience) and logic:

1) plenty of times I've had the indeniable urge to orgasm many times. These periods coincided with worse health, fast stressful thoughts, etc even before the orgasm.
2) hundreds of things affect stress. Probabilistically it is more likely that the problem is in the 99 other things, rather than the 1 issue of sex/masturabtion.

If you're stressed and you're consciously trying to hold back orgasm, at least in my experience, it's not really going to help much. Because you shouldn't be consciously trying to hold it in, it should feel effortless.
 
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I think sexual response has far more to do with Pavlovian conditioning than many realize. Based on my own experience, and I suspect @ecstatichamster can confirm, once you gain a sufficient level of mastery over your sexual impulse, your libido becomes an on-off switch. You will, quite literally, be able to determine whether or not to trigger arousal. There will be greater amount of "leeway" between non-aroused and aroused state.

I think this is very true. One of the bad problems today is so many sexual triggers around create constant arousal. It’s very stressful. It can be consciously avoided. I avoid it.
 

Jib

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I think this is very true. One of the bad problems today is so many sexual triggers around create constant arousal. It’s very stressful. It can be consciously avoided. I avoid it.

A girl sent me something arousing today, just as a joke. But it did cause a spike of arousal. It does feel very, very similar to plain old stress.

I am doing my best to avoid arousing content, but at the same time, I like the idea of not being controlled by it. I looked at this sexual picture this girl sent me, and felt a spike of arousal, then consciously calmed myself down. I made an effort to look at this picture, and the context, and notice what was arousing me, and then to consciously calm myself down.

It was good to practice. And again with premature ejaculation, it reminds me of the same thing: uncontrollable arousal. My goal is to control it, as @TheSir pointed out is possible. It certainly seems so.

I'll add that the Pavlovian conditioning may also apply to PE. The cycle is get aroused -- release. Maybe in men with PE, this connection is simply more direct with little to no pleasure in between. Just point A to point B -- arousal to ejaculation. That would imply immediate sympathetic nervous system activation, with very little parasympathetic.

I've had plenty of times I had sex while feeling relaxed and could last as long as I wanted. I'd consider that parasympathetic dominant. Having an erection does not necessarily mean a stressed arousal response; arousal yes, but it certainly does not feel the same as nearing or completing ejaculation.

The idea that it can be controlled like a switch is very appealing to me. Maybe it will take a fair amount of time to undo this Pavlovian conditioning and rewire the brain to process sexual stimuli differently.
 

Grapelander

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HEALING WITH SEXUAL ENERGY
Sex for Health, Relationships and Spirituality by Walter Last:

When we first fall in love we become bonded by rising PEA, oxytocin and dopamine levels. When we are sexually aroused by close contact our dopamine level rises further and at the time of orgasm we have a dopamine brainstorm which one researcher compared to the effects of heroin on the brain. Dopamine is active in all addictions, even in people who have forgotten what sex is. Most of this activity is in the limbic system, the oldest part of the brain.

After orgasm dopamine levels fall sharply with the usual withdrawal symptoms. This reaction tends to be immediate in males and delayed in females. Also prolactin levels rise, and androgen receptors fall after orgasm. Low testosterone is associated with irritability and anger. In sexually-satiated rats it has been shown that serotonin and endorphin levels also rise, and this also decreases dopamine and raises prolactin levels. Oxytocin levels fall after conventional orgasm but remaining in close contact may help to counter this drop and sustain oxytocin levels.

Behavioral changes from this disturbed hormone equilibrium have been noticed for up to two weeks. During this time we may be more irritable, dissatisfied, anxious or depressed, and instead of seeing the good side of our mate, we are now painfully aware of his or her shortcomings. This is exactly the same process and length of time prolactin levels need to recover during withdrawal from cocaine.
 

lvysaur

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I've had plenty of times I had sex while feeling relaxed and could last as long as I wanted. I'd consider that parasympathetic dominant. Having an erection does not necessarily mean a stressed arousal response; arousal yes, but it certainly does not feel the same as nearing or completing ejaculation.
Sounds identical to me. Did you also notice, during these phases, that before orgasm there was little to no clenching of your PC muscle?

During a stressful orgasm, I always unconsciously clench my PC muscle before ejaculation. And I am fixated on certain triggers or fetishes.
During a relaxed orgasm, the muscle is relaxed until ejaculation happens. And my sex drive is more flexible, and longer lasting. Erection larger and fuller too (has been confirmed by past dates). And my head looks "pinker", during the stressed one it's a much paler and duller pink, or sometimes with dark coloration (cortisol? excess testosterone aromatizing to estrogen?).

In a way, it's very "womanly". I last longer, it looks pinker, and I'll lack the essential sexual fixation that is unique only to men. I could literally stop in the middle of sex and start doing something else, without being bummed out about it--this is something that supposedly only a woman could do.

But I've learned by now that most of the things that people call "masculine" are simply overcompensations that are not needed in order to fulfill a masculine role. And besides that it ends up being masculine in an "inertial" way--bigger member, more pleasure for both, and being attracted to a greater variety of women/sexual stimuli.
 
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B

Braveheart

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HEALING WITH SEXUAL ENERGY
Sex for Health, Relationships and Spirituality by Walter Last:

When we first fall in love we become bonded by rising PEA, oxytocin and dopamine levels. When we are sexually aroused by close contact our dopamine level rises further and at the time of orgasm we have a dopamine brainstorm which one researcher compared to the effects of heroin on the brain. Dopamine is active in all addictions, even in people who have forgotten what sex is. Most of this activity is in the limbic system, the oldest part of the brain.

After orgasm dopamine levels fall sharply with the usual withdrawal symptoms. This reaction tends to be immediate in males and delayed in females. Also prolactin levels rise, and androgen receptors fall after orgasm. Low testosterone is associated with irritability and anger. In sexually-satiated rats it has been shown that serotonin and endorphin levels also rise, and this also decreases dopamine and raises prolactin levels. Oxytocin levels fall after conventional orgasm but remaining in close contact may help to counter this drop and sustain oxytocin levels.

Behavioral changes from this disturbed hormone equilibrium have been noticed for up to two weeks. During this time we may be more irritable, dissatisfied, anxious or depressed, and instead of seeing the good side of our mate, we are now painfully aware of his or her shortcomings. This is exactly the same process and length of time prolactin levels need to recover during withdrawal from cocaine.
Thanks for this...it led me to Walter Last and his research/writings....very interesting
 

Collden

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Take it one step further - sexual arousal is a stressor that might last for minutes to hours.

Being in love is a stressor that might last for months to years, it is basically a very prolonged coke high.

What is true love? Some have argued that limerence or infatuation, what we call "being in love" is in fact an intense stress reaction fuelled by our own insecurity when we have been captivated by something seemingly unattainable and struggle intensely to win him/her over and make her ours. As long as the anxiety that we might lose our object of love is still there, as long as there is mystery and the feeling that we might not be good enough or undeserving of our object of love - then the stress-hormone fuelled infatuation remains.

But what happens when you start taking each other for granted, when you have seemingly won your object of love over? When you know that you can stop playing roles and fully be yourself and she will still accept you and stay with you, when you can finally relax fully in her presence, reassured that no matter what - she will always love you.

This kills the infatuation, and many say that taking each other for granted will kill the love more generally - but is this the case? Maybe having that security and knowledge that your partner will always be there for you - knowing that you are fully committed to each other - is the key to a deeper love - one that is not based on stress and excitement but on trust and relaxation.
 

Collden

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HEALING WITH SEXUAL ENERGY
Sex for Health, Relationships and Spirituality by Walter Last:

When we first fall in love we become bonded by rising PEA, oxytocin and dopamine levels. When we are sexually aroused by close contact our dopamine level rises further and at the time of orgasm we have a dopamine brainstorm which one researcher compared to the effects of heroin on the brain. Dopamine is active in all addictions, even in people who have forgotten what sex is. Most of this activity is in the limbic system, the oldest part of the brain.

After orgasm dopamine levels fall sharply with the usual withdrawal symptoms. This reaction tends to be immediate in males and delayed in females. Also prolactin levels rise, and androgen receptors fall after orgasm. Low testosterone is associated with irritability and anger. In sexually-satiated rats it has been shown that serotonin and endorphin levels also rise, and this also decreases dopamine and raises prolactin levels. Oxytocin levels fall after conventional orgasm but remaining in close contact may help to counter this drop and sustain oxytocin levels.

Behavioral changes from this disturbed hormone equilibrium have been noticed for up to two weeks. During this time we may be more irritable, dissatisfied, anxious or depressed, and instead of seeing the good side of our mate, we are now painfully aware of his or her shortcomings. This is exactly the same process and length of time prolactin levels need to recover during withdrawal from cocaine.
One could argue that true love is not possible unless one is aware of and is able to accept ones partners shortcomings.

Abstaining from orgasm in a love relationship seems another way to try and keep dopamine levels chronically high and maintain the relationship at this shallow level of infatuation where it is sustained by excitement alone.
 

Jib

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Sounds identical to me. Did you also notice, during these phases, that before orgasm there was little to no clenching of your PC muscle?

Yes. This is where I think the suggestion for "reverse kegels" for premature ejaculation come from. It's all about relaxation. On the other hand, extreme tension in the PC muscle always seems to be associated with premature ejaculation. Uncontrollable tension in the PC muscle, that is. I believe it is actually controllable but requires a lot of training and, above all, mental effort and dedication to relaxation.

What exactly were you practicing that was giving you these benefits?

Semen retention/celibacy grant an opportunity to take a deeper, personal look at our sexual demons. Arousal, frustration, anger, loneliness, everything. Sexual energy is extremely powerful. I'm becoming a big fan of observing it within myself rather than compulsively releasing it via ejaculating. I feel less stressed without ejaculation, as opposed to doing it regularly. It's only been going on a few weeks now, but it's the longest time I think I've ever gone without ejaculating since I did it the first time. I don't think it's a coincidence I've been feeling much better and have more energy.

The arousal is also great for workouts. I think ejaculating is much more draining and even taxing on the nervous system than a hard workout. I went from working out maybe once a week to working out every single day, sometimes twice a day, for the past couple weeks, with only one or two rest days. And it feels natural. I just feel motivated to do it, and will feel strong sexual arousal and then basically have to do it in order to burn that energy off, and always feel much better after.

I never felt great after ejaculating, ever. Not even when I was with my girlfriend for several years. It's fun. A lot of fun. But at the end of the day it's a 10 minute thrill and then what? I've been enjoying basking in sexual arousal occasionally, without releasing, much more. It's more difficult, but much more rewarding. Ejaculating feels amazing, but it seems there's a very heavy price to pay for it.

And it's 100% plausible that the urge to have an orgasm comes from a place of stress, and wanting to relieve that stress. It would be the ultimate irony if it's true that the best way to relieve that stress is to abstain from orgasm and to focus on "recirculating" that energy or channeling it into things like meditating and working out or moving our bodies in other ways.

Just thoughts. New to this journey and am a student. Always open to learning and my base assumption is that I don't know anything. Just my personal experiences so far, which do not prove or disprove anything as a general principle.
 

lvysaur

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What exactly were you practicing that was giving you these benefits?
Honestly nothing. Taking amoxicillin produced these effects, in conjunction with rejuvenating my hunger for animal protein. I just naturally felt like orgasming once a week. My intestinal transit time was also a lot slower. But stools were healthy and optimally colored.

I also had very random erections, would get hard for no reason. And I would also not uncontrollably get hard just from seeing sexy women. It felt like it did in my teenage days.

I've had these effects before, but amox really ramped them up.
 

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