The Most OVERLOOKED Peat Quote

[Energizer]

"I think a person of average size should have at least 180 grams per day, maybe an average of about 250 grams."

In my opinion this is the most overlooked and important of Peat quotes for people on this forum to read. Many people here experiencing health problems, or even creating new health problems for themselves are eating many hundreds of grams from carbs, I have seen members attempting to reach 1000g of carbs. This ISN'T in line with what Peat thinks.

On a typical 2500 calorie diet, 180g of carbs is around 30%. This is very reasonable and a moderate amount of carbs. I truly believe many of the health problems on here are created or are fuelled by an excessive amount of carbs.

With protein at 150g of the diet and 24% calories, this leaves 127g of fat and at 46% of the diet, all within fairly moderate and sensible amounts.

People get sucked into the trap of going to extreme lengths with things Peat praises, he says around 2000IU vitamin D is good, people take 50,000 for example. If people actually read Peats guidelines and stuck to closer than 180 than 250 I bet many people would feel better.

I agree, best to match things with your metabolic rate. However, you can't know what is causing most people's health problems, you are just assuming that based on forum posts and making an over-generalization. Some people do gain weight from trying to adopt some of his dietary principles, but it's a case of "the road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom" imo.

 

[Maljam]

I agree, best to match things with your metabolic rate. However, you can't know what is causing most people's health problems, you are just assuming that based on forum posts and making an over-generalization. Some people do gain weight from trying to adopt some of his dietary principles, but it's a case of "the road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom" imo.

This whole forum is based on working out what's causing peoples health problems based on forum posts, that's the point.

I agree it is an over generalization, but I think it is a fair assessment, this forum is a high carb one and many already high carb members push carbs even higher in an attempt to resolve health problems, which you realise months down the line have only aggravated their problems.

I think it is worth people eating high carb, whose health is getting worse, rather than better, to reassess the decision to further increase carbs and explore other areas.

 

[Recoen]

I don’t think it’s so much a carb, protein, or fat, even calorie issue. Of course fat will inhibit carb metabolism, etc. I think it’s more that people are losing a ton of their organic acids to urine because of not enough vitamins, minerals, and carrier proteins for oxidative phosphorylation. Because of this they’re only getting 2 ATP from glycolysis vs 36-38. Many people keep taking thyroid with little effect and sometimes a detrimental stress-like effect because it’s like continuing to push on the accelerator without having proper combustion. I don’t think more calories are better if you’re just wasting them. RP aspoke about how he used to eat ~10,000cal/d until he started taking thyroid.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

"I think a person of average size should have at least 180 grams per day, maybe an average of about 250 grams."

Personally I think Peat tries to keep in mind the average person who isn't a nerd obsessed about what's perfect for your temple. It's not like his every word is the Gospel of Peat. Nobody knows your carb requirements better then you. Your body is full of wisdom. It takes time and experimentation to balance the analysis with the reality of the experience.

 

[Maljam]

Personally I think Peat tries to keep in mind the average person who isn't a nerd obsessed about what's perfect for your temple. It's not like his every word is the Gospel of Peat. Nobody knows your carb requirements better then you. Your body is full of wisdom. It takes time and experimentation to balance the analysis with the reality of the experience.

I completely agree, but people that believe there is a gospel of Peat believe his gospel says "the more carbs the better" and lead themselves down a path of worsening health, which I was hoping to prevent even 1 person going down.

People are ignoring their own carb requirements and overloading on carbs, because they think that is what they are "supposed to do" and hoping it will cure their health ailments. I find this very sad.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

I completely agree, but people that believe there is a gospel of Peat believe his gospel says "the more carbs the better" and lead themselves down a path of worsening health, which I was hoping to prevent even 1 person going down.

People are ignoring their own carb requirements and overloading on carbs, because they think that is what they are "supposed to do" and hoping it will cure their health ailments. I find this very sad.

Yeah I've been there, stuffing my face all the time, afraid to skip a meal. xD But still, it's a natural phase to have after lots of low blood sugar problems, stress, anxiety, carb phobia etc. Feel more balanced nowadays, not afraid to skip breakfast if I'm not hungry. Peat has said it too that it's not good to eat when you're not hungry.

 

[Vins7]

No one should eat more sugar/carbs then what they can utilize through the energy production cycle (glycolisis, krebs cycle, electron transport chain, etc.). This is why context is everything, because this will vary extensively from person to person. Some of the main things that can interfere with glucose oxidation include endotoxin, low thyroid, and too much dietary fat in combination with too much dietary sugar (randle cycle).

I think the biggest overlooked aspect is not so much carbohydrate consumption, but perhaps caloric consumption. If you're looking to lose weight you shouldn't be eating a hypercaloric diet, period. Ray would most likely agree with this too. You can search YT for the "raypeatclips" and in one of them he specifically states subjects should have no problem losing weight in a caloric deficit provided they keep dietary protein levels adequate. This is very uncontroversial advice, and something you would get from places as mainstream as bodybuilder.com.

The difference is the bioenergetic view asserts there's several metabolic toxins in our environments that are suppressing metabolism. Stuff like PUFA, endotoxin, serotonin, estrogen, hundreds of food additives, etc. When a subject is detoxing themselves from these metabolic toxins they very well could increase the basal metabolism and their old "caloric maintenance" may now be a deficit. This is where bioenergetics parts ways with mainstream views.

Also I think it's entirely possible for many people to get trapped on liquid based diets. Fiber is important, even from a bioenergetic view. It's just some fibers are better than others. Specifically non-fermentable insoluble fibers.

What foods has got this kind of fibers?

 

[Vins7]

I'll throw in 2 cents here.

I think most people who have health problems that find their way here for answers have the same primary root problem with one or more of several secondary problems.

The primary cause is inefficient carbohydrate metabolism, plain and simple. Sugar goes in which produces too much lactic acid and not enough carbon dioxide.

The secondary problems which can potentially surround this are many:
-SIBO, dysbiosis, fungal infection or parasitic infestation
-low vitamin D status
-high phosphorus:calcium ratio
-quantitative and qualitative lack of sleep
-sedentary lifestyle
-overabundance of liver congesting substances like emulsifiers, thickeners, anti-caking agents, supplement excipients, etc
-low stomach acid
-weak adrenals from chronic stress
-lack of electrolytes, namely salt and potassium
-high methionine:glycine ratio
-lack of organic plant minerals such as shilajit, trace minerals, etc

I'm sure I'm missing some stuff, but it seems like everyone who has a health problem has...
1) adrenals that are in the dumpster which creates blood sugar and
2) liver glycogen storage (liver moreover) issues which then creates a lack of
3) thyroid hormone conversion

Meanwhile the lungs are trying to mop of the excess serotonin production of the sluggish gastrointestinal tract, the kidneys are dumping electrolytes in the process of preventing over-acidity of the blood... And whatever other downstream issues are hitting the gall bladder, pancreas, and gonads.

If a cold person with a slow metabolism eats too many carbs, they're going to slam white fat as a defense reaction for sure. Seems pretty straightforward

What are the most importante and basic guidelines to fix this situation un your opinion? I don't mean everything that dr peat exposes

 

[Jessie]

What foods has got this kind of fibers?

The carrot salad and cooked mushrooms are probably the most commonly mentioned around these parts.

You've also got berries, which are an excellent source of insoluble fiber, particularly blackberries and wild blueberries. Peas, if you can tolerate them, are also an excellent source of insoluble fiber.

Wheat bran is really high in insoluble fiber. There's probably a host of different vegetables I'm leaving off, but these are some of the most prominent ones I can think of.

They can't count as true sources of fiber, but activated charcoal and cascara function much in the same way as insoluble fiber does.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

What are the most importante and basic guidelines to fix this situation un your opinion? I don't mean everything that dr peat exposes

1) eat a diet that is as high in fructose as possible, even try a grape fast
2) purge with 1/4 cup castor oil + 1 teaspoon 100% pure gum spirits of turpentine followed by at least 2 quarts of water on a day off
3) continue fruit diet until tongue becomes clean. During this time it's worth experimenting with adding herbs and/or taking 1 teaspoon 100% pure gum spirits of turpentine on top of 1 tablespoon of sugar once every 3 days to help deal with undesirable fungal terrain in the small intestine. Feeling sick and experiencing a worsening of symptoms during a fruit fast is completely normal and will not last forever. For me, I experienced 2 waves of discomfort (mild fever, stuffy head, tooth discomfort) that didn't last more than 72 hours each. Your bowels should be running in overtime.
4) when the tongue is clean and the bowel movements no longer smell, make milk the mainstay of the diet with little fruit in between for several days.
5) introduce animal protein into the diet and continue to use milk liberally, even to help digest meals which include meat, eggs, etc. Use fruit in between meals or when milk isn't desirable. Lowfat and skim milk works better unless you're lifting heavy weight every day, in which case you would probably do better with whole milk, but play it by ear.

 

[Bluemachine]

There are two things that come to mind. This is advice I would give myself in retrospect in an attempt to avoid 1-2 years worth of "experiments" and dietary interventions that didn't help resolve my issues.

1) 1/4 cup castor oil + 1 teaspoon of 100% pure gum spirits of turpentine taken in the morning on a day off in order to clean up the small intestine. I know this forum is big on antibiotics but I've always chosen to avoid them like the plague. Maybe this is my mistake to avoid antibiotics, but this concoction of castor oil + turpentine took away bloating/gas that I constantly ran into after eating complex carbohydrates (even bananas). It wasn't until I did this that I could eat rice, bananas, and apples once again. Basically soluble fiber fked me for years due to some kind of small intestine problem, but this is the last solution which really gave me a benefit that I would correlate to the use of antibiotics that some members post on here.
*I'm just guessing, but I'd wait at least 60 days before doing this again. It's really hard to put a number on how frequently this can be done because it's such a tremendous cleanse, akin to a colonic hydrotherapy session with lasting benefit, really.

2) Adopt a fruit + antifungal herb diet (black walnut hull, clove, wormwood, ginger, turmeric, cascara, etc) for at least 1-2 weeks. I don't have any science here, I have just experienced a great balancing reset by fruit fasting for 1-2 weeks at a time. It might have something to do with bolstering the spleen and kidneys which purifies the blood, getting rid of extra nitrogen from large amounts of meat consumption over years, stopping all fat intake while also giving the liver a copious amount of fructose, and also that fruit takes little digestive effort which gives the stomach a break. There's much speculation, but fruit seems to be the safest thing to digest.
If someone has a wicked fungal infection, then overeating just fruit without any additional herbal support might not work, which is why I wrote the 1/4 cup castor oil + 1 teaspoon turpentine remedy as something to consume first. In my estimate, this will at least purge whatever problematic fungal infestation that exists in the upper intestine which might disrupt fruit metabolism.

The continued use of herbs for several weeks will help to purge any remaining fungal issue. I've found activated charcoal to be useful when taken before bed on an empty stomach.

By the time that the tongue is clean and the bowel movements are no longer foul sewage, then a strict reintroduction of milk, fruit, and insoluble fiber should help to re-establish the bacterial colonies of the colon so that they are once-again secreting acids for good digestion.

Honestly I think milk is the litmus test for digestion, especially for evidence of a fungal infection. If someone gets any kind of negative kickback from consuming milk, then I believe they either have a fungal problem or they are lacking nutrients such as zinc, B-vitamins, sodium, potassium, etc.

Do you have any kind of dosage recommendation for black walnut, wormwood and clove?

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Do you have any kind of dosage recommendation for black walnut, wormwood and clove?

Up front I don't have any experience with isolated wormwood. It was a primary constituent of a couple of different multi-herb antiparasitics that I've tried before, but that's as far as I can attest to it. I've heard it reported to be one of the most abrasive herbs that has a mild poisoning effect on a person that kills fungus but not the person. I've heard it repeatedly cautioned against though it's universally praised for it's effectiveness in clearing larger species.

I've taken 3 capsules on an empty stomach for 20 days on, 5 days off, and 20 days on (or thereabouts) of this cheap black walnut hull from Solaray:
https://www.amazon.com/Black-Walnut-500mg-Solaray-VegCaps/dp/B00014EGBY

So that's 1.5g/day taken in the morning. I also combined it with a handful of whole black walnuts on most of those days. It had a great effect.
There were 2 or 3 days that I either took a 3g dose all at once or I took a 1g dose morning, noon, and night, and that gave me mild symptoms of nerve issues... Like small involuntary twitches, spending more time thinking about breathing smoothy, and seeing specks of yellow and blue randomly.
Of note, according to Jennifer Daniels, the risk of overdosing with turpentine also carries neurological implications from some kind of poison effect to the nervous system.

Black walnut hull is crazy effective though, especially for how dirt cheap it is. Safer than oil of oregano by a longshot in my experience & opinion.

I've never taken more than 1.5 teaspoons of clove in given day whether raw or simmered into a tea. It definitely has a calming effect on the stomach and it helped to relieve symptoms of skin itchiness for me a handful of times. I don't doubt that clove can be taken in higher doses... Even though I take what David Wolfe says with a bag of salt, he has mentioned taking a tablespoon of it per day as a fungal cleansing aid. If I remember correctly, Robert Morse has listed clove as useful for clearing small-species fungus whereas black walnut hull and wormwood have broad effect including clearing the big guys.

 

[Inaut]

Up front I don't have any experience with isolated wormwood. It was a primary constituent of a couple of different multi-herb antiparasitics that I've tried before, but that's as far as I can attest to it. I've heard it reported to be one of the most abrasive herbs that has a mild poisoning effect on a person that kills fungus but not the person. I've heard it repeatedly cautioned against though it's universally praised for it's effectiveness in clearing larger species.

I've taken 3 capsules on an empty stomach for 20 days on, 5 days off, and 20 days on (or thereabouts) of this cheap black walnut hull from Solaray:
https://www.amazon.com/Black-Walnut-500mg-Solaray-VegCaps/dp/B00014EGBY

So that's 1.5g/day taken in the morning. I also combined it with a handful of whole black walnuts on most of those days. It had a great effect.
There were 2 or 3 days that I either took a 3g dose all at once or I took a 1g dose morning, noon, and night, and that gave me mild symptoms of nerve issues... Like small involuntary twitches, spending more time thinking about breathing smoothy, and seeing specks of yellow and blue randomly.
Of note, according to Jennifer Daniels, the risk of overdosing with turpentine also carries neurological implications from some kind of poison effect to the nervous system.

Black walnut hull is crazy effective though, especially for how dirt cheap it is. Safer than oil of oregano by a longshot in my experience & opinion.

I've never taken more than 1.5 teaspoons of clove in given day whether raw or simmered into a tea. It definitely has a calming effect on the stomach and it helped to relieve symptoms of skin itchiness for me a handful of times. I don't doubt that clove can be taken in higher doses... Even though I take what David Wolfe says with a bag of salt, he has mentioned taking a tablespoon of it per day as a fungal cleansing aid. If I remember correctly, Robert Morse has listed clove as useful for clearing small-species fungus whereas black walnut hull and wormwood have broad effect including clearing the big guys.

Apparently frozen castor oil capsules are even more effective for clearing the small intestine. Will try it out when my castor oil freezes completely(could take a week in my freezer).

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Apparently frozen castor oil capsules are even more effective for clearing the small intestine. Will try it out when my castor oil freezes completely(could take a week in my freezer).

That's ingenuitive. Might slow down the transit time of the oil compared to room temperature dosing, I would guess. Do you have any idea of what to expect?

Very interested to hear back on your experience with it in the future.

 

[Inaut]

That's ingenuitive. Might slow down the transit time of the oil compared to room temperature dosing, I would guess. Do you have any idea of what to expect?

Very interested to hear back on your experience with it in the future.

Apparently no laxative effect or griping effect.

I copied this from a website online.

“Castor oil, when encapsulated and frozen, will pass through the stomach and small intestine before dissolving. Freezing the capsule before ingesting totally eliminates the traditional cramping associated with castor oil liquid because the capsules dissolve in the ileum, the last three fifths of the small intestine. Here the digestive tract hydrolysis this oil into recinoleic acid which whilst harmless to humans is deadly to parasites. The ileum connects to the cecum by way of the ileocecal valve and the majority of parasites of all kinds will nest in the cecum area ( the lower end of the ascending colon where the large bowel begins ). This area is warm and moist, providing a plentiful source of fresh food for these poisonous invaders.”

 

[Twohandsondeck]

@Inaut
Well then...
I'll be making some castor oil cubes myself when I get home to see how it pans out. Thank you for mentioning this.

 

[yashi]

Apparently no laxative effect or griping effect.

I copied this from a website online.

“Castor oil, when encapsulated and frozen, will pass through the stomach and small intestine before dissolving. Freezing the capsule before ingesting totally eliminates the traditional cramping associated with castor oil liquid because the capsules dissolve in the ileum, the last three fifths of the small intestine. Here the digestive tract hydrolysis this oil into recinoleic acid which whilst harmless to humans is deadly to parasites. The ileum connects to the cecum by way of the ileocecal valve and the majority of parasites of all kinds will nest in the cecum area ( the lower end of the ascending colon where the large bowel begins ). This area is warm and moist, providing a plentiful source of fresh food for these poisonous invaders.”

So just put some castor oil in some empty gelatin capsules and freeze? How much castor oil would you take like this at once? Do you have some anectodes of people who tried this?

 

[Inaut]

On YouTube there are some reviews. I’d try a couple 500mg capsules at night before bed. See how it affects you in the morning.

 

[Amazoniac]

I don’t think it’s so much a carb, protein, or fat, even calorie issue. Of course fat will inhibit carb metabolism, etc. I think it’s more that people are losing a ton of their organic acids to urine because of not enough vitamins, minerals, and carrier proteins for oxidative phosphorylation. Because of this they’re only getting 2 ATP from glycolysis vs 36-38. Many people keep taking thyroid with little effect and sometimes a detrimental stress-like effect because it’s like continuing to push on the accelerator without having proper combustion. I don’t think more calories are better if you’re just wasting them. RP aspoke about how he used to eat ~10,000cal/d until he started taking thyroid.

I remember Raj mentioning that he needed more calories before thyroid supplementation, but I'm not sure if it's reliable to associate the need for more food with sluggish metabolism. I know that there are cases of overeating where the person is attempting to obtain specific nutrients that are in shortage, but once the metabolism starts shutting down, appetite tends to follow. It may have been the coffee opposing this trend.


Check these out:

- calculation atp | Youtube

- Cellular respiration - Wikipedia

"Although there is a theoretical yield of 38 ATP molecules per glucose during cellular respiration, such conditions are generally not realized because of losses such as the cost of moving pyruvate (from glycolysis), phosphate, and ADP (substrates for ATP synthesis) into the mitochondria."

"The outcome of these transport processes using the proton electrochemical gradient is that more than 3 H+ are needed to make 1 ATP. Obviously this reduces the theoretical efficiency of the whole process and the likely maximum is closer to 28–30 ATP molecules. In practice the efficiency may be even lower because the inner membrane of the mitochondria is slightly leaky to protons. Other factors may also dissipate the proton gradient creating an apparently leaky mitochondria. An uncoupling protein known as thermogenin is expressed in some cell types and is a channel that can transport protons. When this protein is active in the inner membrane it short circuits the coupling between the electron transport chain and ATP synthesis. The potential energy from the proton gradient is not used to make ATP but generates heat. This is particularly important in brown fat thermogenesis of newborn and hibernating mammals."​

 

[Recoen]

I remember Raj mentioning that he needed more calories before thyroid supplementation, but I'm not sure if it's reliable to associate the need for more food with sluggish metabolism. I know that there are cases of overeating where the person is attempting to obtain specific nutrients that are in shortage, but once the metabolism starts shutting down, appetite tends to follow. It may have been the coffee opposing this trend.


Check these out:

- calculation atp | Youtube

- Cellular respiration - Wikipedia

"Although there is a theoretical yield of 38 ATP molecules per glucose during cellular respiration, such conditions are generally not realized because of losses such as the cost of moving pyruvate (from glycolysis), phosphate, and ADP (substrates for ATP synthesis) into the mitochondria."

"The outcome of these transport processes using the proton electrochemical gradient is that more than 3 H+ are needed to make 1 ATP. Obviously this reduces the theoretical efficiency of the whole process and the likely maximum is closer to 28–30 ATP molecules. In practice the efficiency may be even lower because the inner membrane of the mitochondria is slightly leaky to protons. Other factors may also dissipate the proton gradient creating an apparently leaky mitochondria. An uncoupling protein known as thermogenin is expressed in some cell types and is a channel that can transport protons. When this protein is active in the inner membrane it short circuits the coupling between the electron transport chain and ATP synthesis. The potential energy from the proton gradient is not used to make ATP but generates heat. This is particularly important in brown fat thermogenesis of newborn and hibernating mammals."​

I agree and while they’re “in the search” for those minerals and vitamins they’re wasting organic acids because there’s not enough micronutrients for “complete” metabolism. There are always reports of people saying how they were like an empty hole when eating because of restrictions. When for example they were craving chocolate- Mg, Cu, glucose, etc- but denied themselves that while continuing to pound the salad.

Yes, anorexia is a known “symptom” of B1 deficiency for example.

And I agree, theory is not always reality. I think the perfect example of this is many are pushing Faraday cages for emf protection. If only people actually looked at the science of a real cage vs a theoretical one they would realize why this is not a good decision.

I’m partial to Lings theory of how ATP is generated. All those protons having to tunnel... the ATPase as a rotor engine does make for a nice toy model though. Obviously if you start changing the net positive of glycolysis+TCA+ETC then you have to account for the same effects with fermentation, cori, beta/ alpha ox, etc.