Guide On How To Optimize Glucose Oxidation

[jb116]

Nice article Hans. I had a thought: do you think sodium inhibits glycogen synthase kinase 3β? I ask because of the Peatarian view of sodium and lithium sharing similarities but sodium being much safer.

 

[Hans]

Clear and practical. Thank you, @Hans.

If you're ever looking for another essay topic, I suggest fixing intestinal health (or, more broadly, fixing digestive health).

Thanks. Yes, that's definitely something I want to write about, but not feeling super motivated about right now.

Dude, you're awesome. Please keep writing.

I have a very short attention span and most likely some kind of severe learning disability. Your articles are a great help to me. I'm gonna have to go over it a bunch of times just to process the information because I have a very hard time learning/absorbing information but the way it's formatted and presented is about as good a job as anyone can do. It actually makes sense to me, which I can't say about just about everything else I've read about biology/metabolism.

Awesome work as always

Thanks man, that's awesome to hear. Really appreciate your feedback.

Thanks for sharing.

I appreciate, Hans

Glad you liked it.

 

[Hans]

Nice article Hans. I had a thought: do you think sodium inhibits glycogen synthase kinase 3β? I ask because of the Peatarian view of sodium and lithium sharing similarities but sodium being much safer.

I've not seen research on that. Sodium can aid in glucose uptake, but not sure about storage. Caffeine can also promote glycogen storage.

 

[Hans]

Where is mildronate?

Added.

 

[jb116]

I've not seen research on that. Sodium can aid in glucose uptake, but not sure about storage. Caffeine can also promote glycogen storage.

Cool. Yea caffeine is definitely so helpful. The sodium aspect in this regards I'll have to continue to research.

 

[Rich W]

Great stuff, Hans ! Thanks for writing

 

[Hans]

Great stuff, Hans ! Thanks for writing

My pleasure, thanks for reading.

 

[Highserotonin90]

@Hans What dosage of melatonin do you recommend to take? only in the evening before bed?

 

[Hans]

@Hans What dosage of melatonin do you recommend to take? only in the evening before bed?

I'd stick to 300mcg doses or at least doses below 1mg. And only before bed yes.

 

[yomama]

@Hans first thanks for the paper, next a question: my current morning routine is about 4h of intense exercise (Z2/3 heart rate zones, aerobic) with a few serious peaks (up to Z4 and Z5 sometimes) preceded by a breakfast of dried whole bread with coconut oil and a big cup of fruit juice (orange, apple, carrots, lemon). During the exercise I also take a small amount of carbs/sugar (a banana, 2/3 cookies, etc).
So for what I read/understood on your paper about lactate and ATP production, taking a large amount of curcuma and cinnamon before the workout (I mean a full teaspoon of each with the fruit juice) isn't so smart ?
Thanks!

 

[yerrag]

The question of how to optimize glucose oxidation is frequently asked and discussed.
Proper glucose oxidation is crucial for health. We don't just want to eat lots of carbs daily, but we want to burn those carbs optimally to get the best out of it.

I put together a guide on how to optimize glucose metabolism/oxidation.
Here is the article: The Ultimate Guide to Restoring Glucose Metabolism » MenElite

If you have questions of something I might not have covered, please feel free to ask.
I'd love to get your feedback on this as well. Thanks for reading.

Hans, as usual, your explanation and illustrations makes a complex topic much better to understand.

As I've come to a different understanding of the role insulin, I've come to see insulin's primary role as an inhibitor of certain processes that are involved in metabolism. However, I've come also to see insulin as not necessary for cellular intake of sugar, but its use is more in a helper capacity, to facilitate sugar intake. The primary role of insulin is to inhibit these processes - lipolysis, proteolysis, glycogenolysis, gluconeogenesis, and ketogenesis.

This means that when insulin is not present or in reduced concentration, all these processes are allowed to run. When blood sugar is well regulated and not allowed to reach high levels, insulin is not produced. Blood glucose at optimal levels is an indication of good glucose metabolism, because glucose is constantly being removed from blood by tissues and being used to produce energy. At this state, lipolysis occurs and fatty acids do get into the blood to provide fuel for beta oxidation, and this is fine. When fat is being burned, fat does not accumulate and this would explain why good sugar metabolism begets the maintenance of low fat levels and normal body weight. The beta oxidation that occurs complements oxidative phosphorylation, as the rate of beta oxidation in this salutary condition does not overwhelm and rob from glucose getting enough enablers (PDH etc) to carry out oxidative phosphorylation fully.

Proteolysis is not inhibited and is free to occur when blood sugar gets low enough (after glycogen stores are exhausted during fasts) to need to be supplemented by the breakdown of protein to make sugar (through gluconeogenesis) through the signaling of cortisol. Glycogenolysis is not impeded as it also supplies sugar to blood, as it should when sugar is constantly being used in between meals. And ketogenesis is also allowed as a supplemental source of energy when the substrates are present.

When there is no deficiency -vitamins, minerals, enzymes - because of good nutrition, and when there is good blood sugar regulation, glucose metabolism will be optimized. There may be less of a need to get supplementation. When the body is less in need of insulin to be used, the better as it means blood sugar is always maintained at optimal levels. If there's no insulin to facilitate glucose intake into cells, having a good store of potassium in the body allows potassium to fill in that role.

I believe that the forum could see less people getting fat on sugar, in following Ray Peat's principles, if they could focus on getting their blood sugar regulation in optimal state. Not defined by big pharma with its very low bar in terms of HbA1c, a marker that Ray Peat himself derides. Instead, members can gain more by making their own 5hr oral glucose tolerance tests (OGTT), by themselves, using affordable glucose test kits. At least six blood glucose data points over 5 hours, can be used to create a graph for them to look at and to analyze. The graphs will give them a better picture of the state of their blood sugar regulation, and help them fix their blood sugar issues. HbA1c is literally a one-dimensional tool that does nothing to help people troubleshoot.

My own experience in using 5hr OGTT is explained here:

Saturated Fat TERRIBLE For Liver Health & Diabetes. Compared To PUFA

I made the graphs using Google Sheets. It not familiar with the use of it, or charting software, one can just make the chart using graphing paper. You can make your own graphing paper using www.gridzzly.com

I understand that someone with knowledge of OGTT will say that getting insulin readings will help, but for KISS purposes, that is unnecessary as it adds another cost and another step, and makes it more complicated. As it is, people are naturally inertia-bound and are used to having tests delivered by a lab or device, printed automatically or displayed on an LED screen, so doing a test which I consider very easy would still be a challenge for many people. So KISS is important.

Hans, if you see value in the 5hr OGTT and you'd like to make an article on how to do one, I'll be glad to help you. From where I've been through and how I've been helped by the 5hr OGTT in improving my health, as explained in the link I provided, I have been very frustrated convincing people here about fixing their blood sugar regulation. People don't listen because Ray Peat doesn't talk about it because Ray Peat likely had good blood sugar regulation all his life, and has never needed to take a 5hr OGTT. Ray Peat would talk about cortisol, and people run on that theme here. But if blood sugar regulation is optimal, it is likely you don't ever need to hear a word about cortisol.

Edit: I forgot to attach an article which I got my ideas from, which I'm very thankful to Wilfrid for sharing. I've shared it many times and I don't have an idea if anyone ever bothered to read it. But it's their loss, as each time I've told them how valuable and helpful what it's saying.

 

[Hans]

Hans, as usual, your explanation and illustrations makes a complex topic much better to understand.

As I've come to a different understanding of the role insulin, I've come to see insulin's primary role as an inhibitor of certain processes that are involved in metabolism. However, I've come also to see insulin as not necessary for cellular intake of sugar, but its use is more in a helper capacity, to facilitate sugar intake. The primary role of insulin is to inhibit these processes - lipolysis, proteolysis, glycogenolysis, gluconeogenesis, and ketogenesis.

This means that when insulin is not present or in reduced concentration, all these processes are allowed to run. When blood sugar is well regulated and not allowed to reach high levels, insulin is not produced. Blood glucose at optimal levels is an indication of good glucose metabolism, because glucose is constantly being removed from blood by tissues and being used to produce energy. At this state, lipolysis occurs and fatty acids do get into the blood to provide fuel for beta oxidation, and this is fine. When fat is being burned, fat does not accumulate and this would explain why good sugar metabolism begets the maintenance of low fat levels and normal body weight. The beta oxidation that occurs complements oxidative phosphorylation, as the rate of beta oxidation in this salutary condition does not overwhelm and rob from glucose getting enough enablers (PDH etc) to carry out oxidative phosphorylation fully.

Proteolysis is not inhibited and is free to occur when blood sugar gets low enough (after glycogen stores are exhausted during fasts) to need to be supplemented by the breakdown of protein to make sugar (through gluconeogenesis) through the signaling of cortisol. Glycogenolysis is not impeded as it also supplies sugar to blood, as it should when sugar is constantly being used in between meals. And ketogenesis is also allowed as a supplemental source of energy when the substrates are present.

When there is no deficiency -vitamins, minerals, enzymes - because of good nutrition, and when there is good blood sugar regulation, glucose metabolism will be optimized. There may be less of a need to get supplementation. When the body is less in need of insulin to be used, the better as it means blood sugar is always maintained at optimal levels. If there's no insulin to facilitate glucose intake into cells, having a good store of potassium in the body allows potassium to fill in that role.

I believe that the forum could see less people getting fat on sugar, in following Ray Peat's principles, if they could focus on getting their blood sugar regulation in optimal state. Not defined by big pharma with its very low bar in terms of HbA1c, a marker that Ray Peat himself derides. Instead, members can gain more by making their own 5hr oral glucose tolerance tests (OGTT), by themselves, using affordable glucose test kits. At least six blood glucose data points over 5 hours, can be used to create a graph for them to look at and to analyze. The graphs will give them a better picture of the state of their blood sugar regulation, and help them fix their blood sugar issues. HbA1c is literally a one-dimensional tool that does nothing to help people troubleshoot.

My own experience in using 5hr OGTT is explained here:

Saturated Fat TERRIBLE For Liver Health & Diabetes. Compared To PUFA

I made the graphs using Google Sheets. It not familiar with the use of it, or charting software, one can just make the chart using graphing paper. You can make your own graphing paper using www.gridzzly.com

I understand that someone with knowledge of OGTT will say that getting insulin readings will help, but for KISS purposes, that is unnecessary as it adds another cost and another step, and makes it more complicated. As it is, people are naturally inertia-bound and are used to having tests delivered by a lab or device, printed automatically or displayed on an LED screen, so doing a test which I consider very easy would still be a challenge for many people. So KISS is important.

Hans, if you see value in the 5hr OGTT and you'd like to make an article on how to do one, I'll be glad to help you. From where I've been through and how I've been helped by the 5hr OGTT in improving my health, as explained in the link I provided, I have been very frustrated convincing people here about fixing their blood sugar regulation. People don't listen because Ray Peat doesn't talk about it because Ray Peat likely had good blood sugar regulation all his life, and has never needed to take a 5hr OGTT. Ray Peat would talk about cortisol, and people run on that theme here. But if blood sugar regulation is optimal, it is likely you don't ever need to hear a word about cortisol.

Edit: I forgot to attach an article which I got my ideas from, which I'm very thankful to Wilfrid for sharing. I've shared it many times and I don't have an idea if anyone ever bothered to read it. But it's their loss, as each time I've told them how valuable and helpful what it's saying.

Great write up. I haven't thought of don't an article on OGTT but it's something we can do. One thing with testing every 60 or even 30 min is that some food can spike blood sugar rapidly and then drop to normal within 30minutes so you never pick it up except with a CGM. However, IMO, such short term spikes is not an issue, but rather the prolonged elevations in blood sugar caused by inflammation and elevated free fatty acids.

 

[yerrag]

Great write up. I haven't thought of don't an article on OGTT but it's something we can do. One thing with testing every 60 or even 30 min is that some food can spike blood sugar rapidly and then drop to normal within 30minutes so you never pick it up except with a CGM. However, IMO, such short term spikes is not an issue, but rather the prolonged elevations in blood sugar caused by inflammation and elevated free fatty acids.

Thanks!

I agree the short term spikes are less of an issue, and if one needs to, one can always take a test every 15 minutes for the time frame that needs it. CGM, while allowing more data to be used, adds another level of complexity and cost to it, which I would prefer to forego as it makes it harder for people to do. I couldn't tell a person to try it when I can't tell him "there's not a lot to it."

The prolonged elevations in blood sugar isn't the real concern, I think, as Ray Peat has talked about it. More of a concern is the sudden drop in blood sugar cause by a strong insulin reaction from elevated blood sugar. This could cause fainting, so a companion needs to be available to give him some food to eat to restore blood sugar levels. This is probably why we don't see this very useful test anymore, as our very litigious and risk-averse society makes any slight risk enough to make something useful and helpful disappear. The OGTT available where I'm at is only a 2 or 3 hour OGTT, which is pretty useless. Why bother offering it?

So, if one were to write an article on it, one would need to have a lawyer to shield him from being liable. But DIY is the answer, as it allows people to have access to this test that isn't available in a useful way. I remember this to be the case why one-person planes are sold as parts, for people to build them themselves, as it takes away the liability from the plane maker.

 

[Highserotonin90]

Excuse me but if we focus on the aim of promoting glycogen consumption and "blocking" lipolysis ... how can we achieve weight loss (precise, fat loss, not weight)? just by eating less in general? or leave lipolysis overnight? @Hans @yerrag

 

[Hans]

Excuse me but if we focus on the aim of promoting glycogen consumption and "blocking" lipolysis ... how can we achieve weight loss (precise, fat loss, not weight)? just by eating less in general? or leave lipolysis overnight? @Hans @yerrag

There's actually a study is mice that had their CPT-1 deleted and they were resistant against obesity. Fat oxidation in never completely blocked and the question should be: where, how much and for how long does this chemical inhibit FOA. For example, a specific chemical can inhibit FOA in muscle tissue by 30% with a half life of 3 hours, which still allows for ample FOA.

I'm writing an article on this that will be out soon that will hopefully clear up some confusion around this area.

 

[yerrag]

Excuse me but if we focus on the aim of promoting glycogen consumption and "blocking" lipolysis ... how can we achieve weight loss (precise, fat loss, not weight)? just by eating less in general? or leave lipolysis overnight? @Hans @yerrag

Simply put, it's to burn fat and not to produce fat.

If there's no insulin inhibiting lipolysis, fatty acids will be released from adipose tissue to the blood and made available to the body to metabolize. So you want to minimize the production of insulin.

Insulin also converts blood sugar to fatty acids. This happens when blood sugar is high, and when high enough insulin is secreted in order to lower blood sugar by converting to fats.

So, we can see that by lowering insulin secretion, we can lose fat. That is the easy part. The hard part is how to make our body produce less insulin. The long and short of it is to have optimal blood sugar regulation. This happens when outside of the time immediately after a meal, we can maintain blood sugar at an optimal range, around 75-90 ( just my guess) all throughout the day. Blood sugar isn't ever high enough to need for insulin to be secreted, nor is it too low where we feel stressed. In order to maintain this state, it requires the body to be able to absorb blood sugar readily, and for the sugar to be metabolized efficiently, at the same time producing carbon dioxide. The CO2 helps maintain good pH balance in the body, as well as ensure good tissue oxygenation - as this is important in order to burn sugar efficiently.

 

[Spartan300]

@yerrag I can see the value in the data provided by the 5hr OGTT and apologies if I've missed it but what did did you do with the data which made improvements for you?

 

[yerrag]

@yerrag I can see the value in the data provided by the 5hr OGTT and apologies if I've missed it but what did did you do with the data which made improvements for you?

In each graph, you can look at the curve and see at what point the curve went outside the upper and lower boundary curves.

Then you can ask yourself why it went out of bounds each time it did. In my latest graph, You will see that in the first hour, my blood sugar was staying higher than it should be. And you'll also see that around the third hour, the curve went past the lower boundary but recovered and went back up past the lower boundary into good territory.

In the 1st hour, I'll ask why blood sugar was staying high too long. Possible causes: poor sugar absorption by tissues--is it low potassium? Is it because of PUFAs blocking sugar absorption/metabolism? and so on and so forth. Is it low tissue oxygenation? and so on and so forth. Then I'd work to fix each of these possible causes one by one, each time observing how I feel and testing my blood sugar to check for any improvement that may result.

I'll use Hans' article to try to pinpoint where along the chain involved in sugar metabolism am I having a problem, and try to address that.

So there is a remedial action you attempt each time, and you feel something better (or not) and you confirm it with a blood sugar test you do yourself. You have this feedback cycle each time you try something. You would eventually do something that sticks. If the issue is not deep, the more easily you will find the fix. Start with the easy fixes first. Don't break open the engine before you check the air filter and fuel filter, so to speak.

After say a month, and after feeling the improvement on a consistent basis, you can make. another 5hr OGTT to see how you're improving.

Hopefully the issues are self-fixable. Sometimes, it's not. Like in my case, I had to have chiropractic adjustment as well as do mercury detox to improve tissue oxygenation so more oxygen is available for metabolism--if I lack oxygen and becoming hypoxic, metabolism will be stuck at glycolysis and I'll be producing 1/16 of the potential energy and I'll also be making lactic acid instead of CO2.

I don't want to make it complicated but I'm saying that no matter how complicated it may get, you have a very good way to gauge how well your blood sugar is regulated and you have a window into how you can improve it.

 

[Spartan300]

Thanks I appreciate it.

Reading some older threads I've finally come across references from people with high androgens and high cortisol etc due to stress. I know my androgens and cortisol/DHEAS etc are high but I am still suffering with many hypo symptoms which I think are liver/glycogen related.
I'm just starting 15mg biotin/day and 500mg Niacinamide. If that doesn't help I may have to get more detailed in my approach as you suggest.

 

[Highserotonin90]

There's actually a study is mice that had their CPT-1 deleted and they were resistant against obesity. Fat oxidation in never completely blocked and the question should be: where, how much and for how long does this chemical inhibit FOA. For example, a specific chemical can inhibit FOA in muscle tissue by 30% with a half life of 3 hours, which still allows for ample FOA.

I'm writing an article on this that will be out soon that will hopefully clear up some confusion around this area.

It's always a pleasure to read you <3