Blood Donations Permanently Lowering Killer T-cells

[Josh]

Hey guys, quick question, i'm really desperate to get some opinions about this as its something i'm REALLY stuck on what to do..

So i’ve heard from an MD who heard from a researcher that donating blood (to reduce iron) can lower Killer T-cells and potentially never come back to normal every again. Apparently, the blood takers don’t want this info getting out there because its so essential we give blood in todays society.

I found this which describes the lowering of Killer T-Cells, which appeared to return to normal after almost two weeks. But there's that line: "Only the total number of lymphocytes was significantly decreased in the normal donors on Day 12 after donation." It sounds like that immune system continued to be suppressed almost 2-weeks later. It appears the study ends after 12 days, and we don't have long-run analysis of these patients, so we can't know for sure? What do you think of this guys??

Blood donation leads to a decrease in natural killer cell activity: a study in normal blood donors and cancer patients. - PubMed - NCBI

i'm not good at looking at studies so your opinion would be grateful!

I appear to be loading iron from my recent blood test so i really don;t know weather to donate blood or not, even lowering red meat i have ended up accumulating and increasing my iron status.
I really hope you guys can help me with this!

 

[Josh]

@haidut

 

[Josh]

@Such_Saturation @tara @charlie @Blossom @Amazoniac @ecstatichamster @DaveFoster @Travis

 

[Blossom]

”The patients donated 2 units of blood with an interval of 3 to 4 days between donations.”
Where I donate the most they take is one unit every 52 days. I’m not a scientist but this seems excessive and could be quite a shock to the body. It sounds like despite this normal donors recovered fine. I hope you get more replies.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Hey guys, quick question, i'm really desperate to get some opinions about this as its something i'm REALLY stuck on what to do..

So i’ve heard from an MD who heard from a researcher that donating blood (to reduce iron) can lower Killer T-cells and potentially never come back to normal every again. Apparently, the blood takers don’t want this info getting out there because its so essential we give blood in todays society.

This sounds like the start of an REO Speedwagon song.

I'm sure it can lower Killer T-cells, and there is always a potential that they will never come back to baseline. But if so, why do blood donors in general have much lower rates of cancer than the general public?

Even if it does, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. White Blood Cells are elevated in cases of chronic infection. The last thing you would want to do is suppress formation of WBC during this time, but if the infection is treated and resolves, White Blood Cells would go back to normal levels. A similar thing could be going on with lower T Cell numbers. T Cell formation may even have a feedback with Ferritin or some other iron number, as a mechanism to fight cancer in an environment more likely to create it. Lower Ferritin, lower risk of cancer, T Cells aren't formed as aggressively. Just my thoughts.

I found this which describes the lowering of Killer T-Cells, which appeared to return to normal after almost two weeks. But there's that line: "Only the total number of lymphocytes was significantly decreased in the normal donors on Day 12 after donation." It sounds like that immune system continued to be suppressed almost 2-weeks later. It appears the study ends after 12 days, and we don't have long-run analysis of these patients, so we can't know for sure? What do you think of this guys??

Blood donation leads to a decrease in natural killer cell activity: a study in normal blood donors and cancer patients. - PubMed - NCBI

i'm not good at looking at studies so your opinion would be grateful!

I appear to be loading iron from my recent blood test so i really don;t know weather to donate blood or not, even lowering red meat i have ended up accumulating and increasing my iron status.
I really hope you guys can help me with this!

As Blossom pointed out, the study did two extractions within a week. Only in the most serious cases of hemochromatosis, where ferritin is well over 1000, and the risk of serious and permanent liver damage very high, have I ever heard of an blood extraction schedule like this. And they don't keep patients on this schedule very long, fatigue, dehydration, and many other issues can happen at this rate. Average blood donors are limited to once every two months, while some Hemochromatosis cases go on a schedule of every month, every two week, and sometimes every week.

Personally, I have been donating for 5 years now, (and did monthly extractions early on), have only seen health improvements due to donations, and will continue to use this as my iron lowering strategy.

If you can get some more info from your friend, please share, but at the moment, I don't see this as much other than some markers fluctuating in a potentially normal pattern that may, in itself, indicate better overall health.

If you decide against blood donation, there are other iron lowering strategies out there, such as IP6, dietary intervention, aspirin, lactoferrin, and such.

 

[Josh]

This sounds like the start of an REO Speedwagon song.

I'm sure it can lower Killer T-cells, and there is always a potential that they will never come back to baseline. But if so, why do blood donors in general have much lower rates of cancer than the general public?

Even if it does, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. White Blood Cells are elevated in cases of chronic infection. The last thing you would want to do is suppress formation of WBC during this time, but if the infection is treated and resolves, White Blood Cells would go back to normal levels. A similar thing could be going on with lower T Cell numbers. T Cell formation may even have a feedback with Ferritin or some other iron number, as a mechanism to fight cancer in an environment more likely to create it. Lower Ferritin, lower risk of cancer, T Cells aren't formed as aggressively. Just my thoughts.



As Blossom pointed out, the study did two extractions within a week. Only in the most serious cases of hemochromatosis, where ferritin is well over 1000, and the risk of serious and permanent liver damage very high, have I ever heard of an blood extraction schedule like this. And they don't keep patients on this schedule very long, fatigue, dehydration, and many other issues can happen at this rate. Average blood donors are limited to once every two months, while some Hemochromatosis cases go on a schedule of every month, every two week, and sometimes every week.

Personally, I have been donating for 5 years now, (and did monthly extractions early on), have only seen health improvements due to donations, and will continue to use this as my iron lowering strategy.

If you can get some more info from your friend, please share, but at the moment, I don't see this as much other than some markers fluctuating in a potentially normal pattern that may, in itself, indicate better overall health.

If you decide against blood donation, there are other iron lowering strategies out there, such as IP6, dietary intervention, aspirin, lactoferrin, and such.

Thanks so much @tankasnowgod, your reply is amazing, thanks for putting so much effort into it.

Seems to make a lot of sense. I too only felt benefits from donating blood, My Saturation is now up to 42%, although my ferritin is low at 45.

 

[Josh]

”The patients donated 2 units of blood with an interval of 3 to 4 days between donations.”
Where I donate the most they take is one unit every 52 days. I’m not a scientist but this seems excessive and could be quite a shock to the body. It sounds like despite this normal donors recovered fine. I hope you get more replies.

Yeah that makes lots of sense. I only give blood like every 3 months

 

[Such_Saturation]

I've had iron levels at 65-70 for at least 2 years and never got the flu... take it for what it's worth.

 

[Josh]

I've had iron levels at 65-70 for at least 2 years and never got the flu... take it for what it's worth.

You had iron saturation of 65-70%??

 

[Such_Saturation]

You had iron saturation of 65-70%??

Hi, sorry I meant iron at micrograms per deciliter.

 

[Josh]

Does anyone have an update or an opinion on this?

 

[Motif]

Up

 

[rei]

My opinion is that it is BS. It might permanently lower it in your current "local optima" but nothing prevents you from re-aligning with the tracks of growth.