L-Arginine Supplementation - Really That Bad?

Terma

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I've had nocturia too, and also ingested L-Arginine-HCl [HCl is probably not the best form, but the base was out of stock at the time, keep this in mind] around 2-4g/day as a trial, but I'm not sure it made a difference (unless I mis-correlated, which is possible). Something has made a difference in nocturia but I can't tell you what it is yet. I also suspected vasopressin but personally I may be getting bladder irritation. Most things that get suggested haven't done squat.
 

yerrag

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Interested in trying out arginine for my high blood pressure.

It's needed to produce vasopressin as well as to produce NO. Both of these are seen in a bad light here, for the stress they can produce. But when my blood pressure is high out of a possible deficiency in vasopressin, it may be helpful to take arginine, or citrulline. I also urinate a lot at night, and it seems I'm lacking in antidiuretic hormone (ADH, or vasopressin).

My high blood pressure is partly caused by the lack of endogenous nitric oxide. Just realized that taking l-arginine isn't going to be helpful, although I've never taken l-arginine as a solution. And I'm glad I haven't.

L-arginine promotes biofilm formation of p. gingivalis, a periodontal bacteria.

Arginine Deiminase Inhibits Porphyromonas Gingivalis Surface Attachment - PubMed

With this periodontal bacteria having formed a biofilm community, providing it with a nitrogen source it can feed on only encourages growth of this biofilm, and this can only be counter-productive. The bacteria's enzymes can convert arginine to citrulline, and this keeps arginine from being used to make nitric oxide. The bacteria also feeds on arginine, thus robbing the body of the precursor to nitric oxide.
 

lukashenko

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Just read about the Arginine paradox: [The arginine paradox] - PubMed

Abstract:

L-Arginine has attracted major interest because it has been identified as the natural substrate of nitric oxide synthase and is now recognized as a major player in the regulation of biological function. The arginine paradox refers to the phenomenon that exogenous L-arginine causes NO-mediated biological effects despite the fact that nitric oxide synthases (NOS) are theoretically saturated with the substrate L-arginine. There have been several explanations for this phenomenon, although none of them can explain the arginine paradox fully: (1) L-arginine-induced insulin, which has vasodilatory actions. (2) Neither extracellular nor intracellular concentration determines the NOS activity but rather the L-arginine amount transported across the plasma membrane may do so. (3) Endogenous NOS inhibitors reduce the enzyme sensitivity to L-arginine. These inhibitors include, NG, NG-dimethyl-L-arginine, L-citrulline, argininosuccinic acid and agmatine. (4) Intracellular L-citrulline, an NOS product, is a potent inhibitor of NOS so that the cells may need extra L-arginine to compete with L-citrulline inhibition.

So maybe Peat's worries of arginine triggering NOS don't apply?
 

A.R

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Yeah, I only take citrulline powder, which converts to Arginine, to boost my NO when I'm about to lay the pipe. Otherwise, I noticed no enhancements other than lowered BP.
Was you using l citrulline or citrulline malate? Do you still use the supplement?
 

Frankdee20

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Was you using l citrulline or citrulline malate? Do you still use the supplement?
It was the Malate

I get much better results now with Androsterone, Pansterone.
 

moa

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I'm going to try citrulline experiment with malate too, in the near feature.

I have used lysine supplements, 1 or 2g per day, intermittent, for the past year or more.

Glycine is very good for me I've teaspoon, and recently i discovered if i take two it's even better.

lysine i took it cause it was supposed to help with gut healing, but my experience was not conclusive and even i suspect it might have triggered my gut problems, cause I've read l-lysine metabolize into a compound that triggers mast cell activation.

on the other hand, citrulline is known to have antioxidant properties and should help.

research is not clear, arginine and/or citrulline is not the limiting factor in NO production. while it will increase NO, it shouldn't really based on the limiting factor being regulated by other enzymes and we don't know why it does increase.

The main enzyme responds to high calcium entering inside cells, this triggers and regulates the Arginine availability especially for no production not the arginine that's available in general.

beside calcium, other factors influence Arginine availability for NO production, like some derivatives of cystein, hormones, and many other.

one theory i have is that higher CO2 production allows for higher levels of NO to be produced without disturbing the cellular respiration (CO2 will block the negative effect of NO up to a point).

this maybe allows cells in need, to raise NO temporarily, short term (seconds), to fix a problem, then NO gets back down long term without increasing average NO in the blood.

when CO2 is low, the cell cannot produce NO in the beginning of the excitatory state, this creates, in the long term (maybe many minutes later) a spreading of the problem to other tissues and then a high NO production witch will shut down the respiratory chain and cause damage to the cell long term (both more cells, longer time with increased blood no levels).

so the health cell is probably a cell that CAN produce NO fast and just in time, just enaught to avoid further problems, and CO2 could just be a cofactor of healthy NO production, supporting normal levels of NO, not a substitutor

this theory is coherent with the study that found that healthy subjects who take citrulline do not have increased blood NO levels.

cancer cells cannot produce Arginine, they use this to starve the cell of Arginine, maybe a cell that is not able to produce Arginine becomes cancerous ? could imparted Arginine production in metabolic compromised cells actually be one of the triggers of cancer ?

The studies show that arginine supplementation is protective to the immune system against cancer cells, but arginine deprivation has been shown to induce autonomous cancer cell death.


citrulline has shown good anticancer activity (in a dose dependent manner), against the deadliest gynecological malignancy : cervical cancer.

 

Mossy

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I'm going to try citrulline experiment with malate too, in the near feature.

I have used lysine supplements, 1 or 2g per day, intermittent, for the past year or more.

Glycine is very good for me I've teaspoon, and recently i discovered if i take two it's even better.

lysine i took it cause it was supposed to help with gut healing, but my experience was not conclusive and even i suspect it might have triggered my gut problems, cause I've read l-lysine metabolize into a compound that triggers mast cell activation.

on the other hand, citrulline is known to have antioxidant properties and should help.

research is not clear, arginine and/or citrulline is not the limiting factor in NO production. while it will increase NO, it shouldn't really based on the limiting factor being regulated by other enzymes and we don't know why it does increase.

The main enzyme responds to high calcium entering inside cells, this triggers and regulates the Arginine availability especially for no production not the arginine that's available in general.

beside calcium, other factors influence Arginine availability for NO production, like some derivatives of cystein, hormones, and many other.

one theory i have is that higher CO2 production allows for higher levels of NO to be produced without disturbing the cellular respiration (CO2 will block the negative effect of NO up to a point).

this maybe allows cells in need, to raise NO temporarily, short term (seconds), to fix a problem, then NO gets back down long term without increasing average NO in the blood.

when CO2 is low, the cell cannot produce NO in the beginning of the excitatory state, this creates, in the long term (maybe many minutes later) a spreading of the problem to other tissues and then a high NO production witch will shut down the respiratory chain and cause damage to the cell long term (both more cells, longer time with increased blood no levels).

so the health cell is probably a cell that CAN produce NO fast and just in time, just enaught to avoid further problems, and CO2 could just be a cofactor of healthy NO production, supporting normal levels of NO, not a substitutor

this theory is coherent with the study that found that healthy subjects who take citrulline do not have increased blood NO levels.

cancer cells cannot produce Arginine, they use this to starve the cell of Arginine, maybe a cell that is not able to produce Arginine becomes cancerous ? could imparted Arginine production in metabolic compromised cells actually be one of the triggers of cancer ?

The studies show that arginine supplementation is protective to the immune system against cancer cells, but arginine deprivation has been shown to induce autonomous cancer cell death.


citrulline has shown good anticancer activity (in a dose dependent manner), against the deadliest gynecological malignancy : cervical cancer.

I would proceed with caution. Citruline malate made my pulse drop into the 40s. You may be ok, just something to keep in mind.
 

moa

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my pulse normal is 83, I've been able to record pulse as low as 62 during deep sleep. my pulse never goes below 80 while well awake, but it can go up to 110 or 120 at rest when feeling anxious.

having my pulse below 90 makes me feel much more calm and relaxed... so I'll see, if it lowers pulse a bit could be good, but not that much.

thanks, I'll keep an eye on my pulse carefully when I'll start taking it.
 

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