Why You Stay Slimmer More Easily With Olive Oil Than With Saturated Fats

[X3CyO]

The unsaturated fats are the most unstable, and also happen to be the longest.

word

edit:
they're like stored, leaking nuclear waste.

 

[Broken man]

The unsaturated fats are the most unstable, and also happen to be the longest.

Its true that the longer chain, the less chance for oxidation. Even @Stryker told about his experiment with dairy fat making him gain weight. Butter is not the same as milk because butter has different fatty acid composition. The weight loss from stearic acid could be from uncoupling or replacing linoleic acid....

 

[CLASH]

Its true that the longer chain, the less chance for oxidation. Even @Stryker told about his experiment with dairy fat making him gain weight. Butter is not the same as milk because butter has different fatty acid composition. The weight loss from stearic acid could be from uncoupling or replacing linoleic acid....

I havent experienced butter causing weight gain. But I have seen milk cause weight gain. I dont think the fat composition of butter is that different from milk. I do think that milk has a whole host of other components that can easily cause weight gain (which is the entire purpose of milk in the first place lol).

Milk made me fat, while butter with beef tallow has made me excessively lean (so much so that I had to add some MUFA from macadmia nut oil to put on some weight...)

 

[Broken man]

I havent experienced butter causing weight gain. But I have seen milk cause weight gain. I dont think the fat composition of butter is that different from milk. I do think that milk has a whole host of other components that can easily cause weight gain (which is the entire purpose of milk in the first place lol).

Milk made me fat, while butter with beef tallow has made me excessively lean (so much so that I had to add some MUFA from macadmia nut oil to put on some weight...)

I agree with you but Its still about beta fatty acid oxidation....

 

[schultz]

Milk made me fat, while butter with beef tallow has made me excessively lean (so much so that I had to add some MUFA from macadmia nut oil to put on some weight...)

You could have just added some milk back in and received the benefit of extra nutrients. Why choose an oil instead?

 

[berk]

Milk made me fat, while butter with beef tallow has made me excessively lean (so much so that I had to add some MUFA from macadmia nut oil to put on some weight...)

what about cheese and coconut oil?

 

[CLASH]

You could have just added some milk back in and received the benefit of extra nutrients. Why choose an oil instead?

Milk causes more than just weight gain for me. I can't tolerate it. No one in my family can, even my 1 year baby sister (she can only drink goat milk).

what about cheese and coconut oil?

Cheese is more than fat, its largely casein. Response to this will depend on ability to handle peptides from the casein.

Coconut oil makes me very lean as well but its processed differently than the other fats so I wouldnt rely on it exclusively. It also has a less androgenic effect than the animal fats and it tends to dry my joints out.

 

[schultz]

Milk causes more than just weight gain for me. I can't tolerate it. No one in my family can, even my 1 year baby sister (she can only drink goat milk)

Do you think your inability to tolerate it has something to do with why you gain weight when you consume it regularly? Is it fat gain or is it edema that you have historically experienced?

 

[CLASH]

Do you think your inability to tolerate it has something to do with why you gain weight when you consume it regularly? Is it fat gain or is it edema that you have historically experienced?

Yes, I think they are all the same thing. Its both, but not edema like swelling in the ankle or anything like that, a general holding of water. Milk, especially cows milk is a hormonal nightmare for me and quite a few people I know.

 

[berk]

Perhaps stop taking it then? I cant take it either, makes me feel terrible.



In my experience people dont get fat on animal fats, particularly butter and beef tallow, they actually rapidly lean out and have trouble putting on weight. Coconut oil doesnt function the same as a long chain fat, its more like a sugar. I personally eat 140g per day of fat 80g of which are SAFA with about 60g of MUFA. Too much saturated fat (tallow + butter) made me way too lean tho, had to add some MUFA (macadamia nut oil) to put on some weight. This is on top of 400g a day of sugar from fruit and 140g of protein from meat. Coconut oil makes me even leaner, but it leaves me hungry, makes my joints dry out over time and has a slight androgen decreasing effect compared to butter and beef tallow.

so you telling that you eat a high fat, high sugar, low protein diet and you can still lose bodyfat/ on this if your fats only from butter, beef tallow and coconut oil?
Doesn't matter if you eat above or under maintenance kcal?

i totally don't understand anymore how body works after reading this types of messages.
Everything i learnt in the past is *poef* devastated.
Blows my mind

 

[Jam]

By simply reducing the amount of EVOO in my *diet in favor of more butter, I feel more satiated between meals and can easily skip my daily 4pm snack. This has resulted in losing 2kg since I made the switch a few weeks ago.

*I live in an alpine region of northern Italy and my diet is based around starch (pasta, bread, potatoes, croissants, oatmeal, etc.), full-fat (preferably raw) dairy, and beef. (Macros: 15/45-50/35-40).

 

[CLASH]

so you telling that you eat a high fat, high sugar, low protein diet and you can still lose bodyfat/ on this if your fats only from butter, beef tallow and coconut oil?
Doesn't matter if you eat above or under maintenance kcal?

i totally don't understand anymore how body works after reading this types of messages.
Everything i learnt in the past is *poef* devastated.
Blows my mind

My macros are 140g of mostly saturated and monounsaturated fat, 300-400g sugar entirely from fruit, 140g protein. So its not low protein. I would say this diet is probably about where my maintenance calories should be considering my current activity level. I dont really limit the quantity of food I eat. Sometimes I have to lower the quantity of food because I'm not hungry for it. Sometimes I need to eat more food. For your reference I am 6'2" 175-180lbs, about 10% bodyfat.

 

[Kvothe]

The fatty acids in coconut oil (lauric and I think caprylic) have some anti-5AR properties

I'm still waiting for the study to show this.

 

[CLASH]

@Kvothe
Did you ask me for this somewhere else?

Error - Cookies Turned Off

 

[Kvothe]

@Kvothe
Did you ask me for this somewhere else?

Error - Cookies Turned Off

No. I was alluding to the frequency of the claim that coconut oil is somehow anti-androgenic. This table does not seem to support your statement or your dietary choices, if you do not want to suppress 5α-reductase enzyme activity that is, since oleic acids has a much lower value than the shorter saturated fatty acids. Furthermore, as the first paragraph under the table states, these in vitro studies with fatty acids often yield completely contradictory results. Some times PUFA are shown to have 5α-reductase-promoting properties, and here they have a very low IC-50 value.

 

[CLASH]

No. I was alluding to the frequency of the claim that coconut oil is somehow anti-androgenic. This table does not seem to support your statement or your dietary choices, if you do not want to suppress 5α-reductase enzyme activity that is, since oleic acids has a much lower value than the shorter saturated fatty acids. Furthermore, as the first paragraph under the table states, these in vitro studies with fatty acids often yield completely contradictory results. Some times PUFA are shown to have 5α-reductase-promoting properties, and here they have a very low IC-50 value.

I did not claim that it was anti-androgenic. I claimed that, in my experience, it is less androgenic than the animal fats.

It actually supports my choices perfectly. I'm using oleic acid specifically to mitigate what seems to be too high DHT. Haidut recently posted on his blog studies discussing lipid saturation in relation to saturation of steroid. There has also been previous discussion of requiring non-fully saturated steroids like DHEA in combination with fully saturated steroids like androsterone or DHT to induce muscular anabolism. I've been playing around with intakes of saturated and monounsaturated fats to see thier effects physiologically in this context. Excess amounts of fully saturated fats push me to, what seems like, too high DHT expression. Adding in some monounsaturated fats seem to help moderate those effects to some extent while avoiding "estrogenicity". Playing around with too many things that have purported aromatase inhibiting effects gives me similar symptoms to running, what seems like, too high DHT.

I did not state that I dont use coconut oil because it has a less androgenic effect. I merely added that in as an experiential side note. Another interesting note for this discussion is that coconut oil seems to preserve my hair. If your interested, my main reason for avoiding it is the drying effect it seems to produce in my joints.

As for the questionable nature of the assays, have you seen studies showing contrary effects of the fatty acids in coconut oil on 5AR? In my opinion, just because there are questionable effects of PUFA, doesn't automatically imply that the same effects occur with medium chain saturated fats.

 

[kreeese]

Perhaps stop taking it then? I cant take it either, makes me feel terrible.



In my experience people dont get fat on animal fats, particularly butter and beef tallow, they actually rapidly lean out and have trouble putting on weight. Coconut oil doesnt function the same as a long chain fat, its more like a sugar. I personally eat 140g per day of fat 80g of which are SAFA with about 60g of MUFA. Too much saturated fat (tallow + butter) made me way too lean tho, had to add some MUFA (macadamia nut oil) to put on some weight. This is on top of 400g a day of sugar from fruit and 140g of protein from meat. Coconut oil makes me even leaner, but it leaves me hungry, makes my joints dry out over time and has a slight androgen decreasing effect compared to butter and beef tallow.

egggggggzzzzzaaaaaakkkkkkttttllleeeeeeeeeeee

 

[kreeese]

The study you posted suggests nothing to support your title. There wasn't a group that ate a diet high in olive oil and compared them to a group that ate a high saturated fat diet, and then measured their weight and fat stores. No, this was primarily a study on the effects of bed rest and Fatty Acid Oxidation.

There was this thread that showed increased FAO does not lead to weight or fat loss - Increased Fat Oxidation (FAO) Does Not Lead To Weight / Fat Loss

Inhibiting FAO has been shown to increase metabolism, and itself may lead to weight and fat loss.

There are also studies that show Saturated Fats, particularly Stearic Acid, can reduce visceral fat and increase lean mass. In this study, Saturated Fat was compared directly to monounsaturated, and the SFA group was leaner- Dietary Stearic Acid Reduces Visceral Fat By 70% And Increases Lean Mass

Valerie Reeves thesis found the same thing- https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0f...10.1581695984.1573415180-183858412.1572894484

In both cases, the high Oleic Acid diet led to weight gain.

Lastly, the recommendation of "The Mediterranean Diet" makes me laugh, as Brad point out in this blog post, no country has ever eaten this so called diet on a national scale- The Anti-French Diet - Fire In A Bottle


"A Mediterranean diet is best for weight maintenance: No country on a national scale has ever had a diet remotely close to the theoretical diet that is “The Mediterranean Diet”. Certainly none of these countries do! This is from The Mayo Clinic:

The main components of Mediterranean diet include:


Daily consumption of vegetables, fruits, whole grains and healthy fats
Weekly intake of fish, poultry, beans and eggs
Moderate portions of dairy products
Limited intake of red meat

Mediterranean diet for heart health

• Whole Grains – None of the three
• Vegetables and Fruits – Everyone is a winner!
• “Healthy” Fats – I’m guessing that means unsaturated fats so Kuwait would win this category. Nanan is basically fat free, which was cool in the nineties but which isn’t very Mediterranean. So I’m saying just Kuwait wins this one.
• Weekly Intake of fish, poultry, beans and eggs – The people of Nanan don’t eat eggs or beans and they probably don’t eat poultry. France and Kuwait win this category.
• Moderate portions of dairy products – Not in France!
• Limited Intake of red meat – Not in France!
• The Mayo clinic doesn’t mention sugar but I’m pretty sure it’s off the list so France and Kuwait are losers there as well.

Clearly France in 1970, the country whose Southern border is the Mediterranean Sea, had the lowest Mediterranean diet score. And they were protected from obesity."

Good stuff! The French know what they are doin!! Vive La france! High saturated fat and shugahhhhhh babyyy

 

[pauljacob]

As to the original post, Just like Honey, genuine EVOO is beyond the reach of most consumers because of cost and demand. Everything you see on shelves -- even the pricey ones have very little or no real EVOO, with a cocktail of other oils added. I grew up with real EVOO, and I tell you you can pay $50 for 1L bottle and still get fake EVOO. Often, what's in the bottle or can is a chemically refined low-grade olive oil mixed with Low grade soybean or seed oils. I often joke saying auto engine oil has more EVOO in it.
Seven Ways to Tell If Your Olive Oil Is Fake

 

[tankasnowgod]

I havent experienced butter causing weight gain. But I have seen milk cause weight gain. I dont think the fat composition of butter is that different from milk. I do think that milk has a whole host of other components that can easily cause weight gain (which is the entire purpose of milk in the first place lol).

I've been thinking a lot about your comments on milk recently. I think you hit on some potential problems with milk (and to be fair, even Peat has an entire article on potential problems with milk, while offering some solutions).

One thing I was thinking about with milk specifically is that it could indirectly cause digestion issues by neutralizing stomach acid. A high amount of calcium (an alkaline mineral) in a lot of liquid could dramatically raise stomach pH, and possibly let a far amount of undigested food travel down the GI track. I think the calcium itself can cause problems in the intestine as well. The worst constipation I ever had in my life was when trying the all milk diet. It happened after a three days on the diet, and without going to TMI, I was getting worried I might need to seek medical help. Thankfully, it resolved, but was a worrying episode. I took three long acting oxycodone tablets over 3 days after a surgery, and while they where also a bit constipating, it was nothing like the milk diet attempt. I did discontinue them, as I got no pain relief, and didn't want to tempt consitpation further.

I would think yogurt and kefir could also cause similar GI issues, but that might be more to do with higher lactic acid content.

Regardless, I'm dropping most dairy (save butter, cream, and some cheese) for a few months to see what happens.