Zinc. How Many Mg Do You Take?

[Motif]

It can for sure be information overload here, especially when trying to implement everyone's own version of what they believe is going on, and when you yourself don't quite know who is right or wrong, or who to give more credit to being more on the money less on the money.

If you've ever felt really good in the past, try and analyze why that was so, including what foods you ate, supplements you took, environment you were in, etc...and then you can proceed from there in being aware of what things you do that get you closer towards that feeling of good health and what things take you farther. In my experience, things don't get worse before they get better. Foods/supplements that are good for me Ill feel right away, similarly with foods that are bad for me. Trust your intuition, meditate, stay aware, constantly reflect on your internal state, especially after eating and taking supplements. Follow your appetite and cravings, but try and keep the foods natural and the supplements rational.

Following my cravings have led me to more positive health then doing anything else. Sometimes we follow too much on the theoretical side and ignore what our body is telling us. Ray has even stated that cravings exist as our body telling us what we really need, which I think intuitively makes a lot of sense. Even for those who believe that's not the case, for those who crave junk food, what they're really craving for us the nutrition behind the junk food. French fries can easily be the potassium and other nutrients in plain potatoes, candy can easily be explained for with sugar that can be consumed through fruit/fruit juice. Chips is the need for salt. What also helps is updating your knowledge base with your experience post craving fulfillment. I once craved buffalo chicken wings very badly, so I went and ate them, and then I felt horrible, so I became wiser in knowing that buffalo chicken wings isn't an appropriate solution, and it's probably the lack of protein/potassium that led to that craving, so consuming cheese or milk is a better answer. This way you can align with cravings with foods that actually heal you and don't harm, and once you've reached that state, you've hit the Panacea, because you'll be able to know exactly what your body needs to operate optimally and feel good.

Stay active, get some light cardio in, get sunlight or take D, stay positive, optimistic, that things will get better as long as you keep trying, and eventually you'll find a solution. Whether it takes days, weeks, months, years, you'll find a solution. And the journey will be well worth it then.

It can for sure be information overload here, especially when trying to implement everyone's own version of what they believe is going on, and when you yourself don't quite know who is right or wrong, or who to give more credit to being more on the money less on the money.

If you've ever felt really good in the past, try and analyze why that was so, including what foods you ate, supplements you took, environment you were in, etc...and then you can proceed from there in being aware of what things you do that get you closer towards that feeling of good health and what things take you farther. In my experience, things don't get worse before they get better. Foods/supplements that are good for me Ill feel right away, similarly with foods that are bad for me. Trust your intuition, meditate, stay aware, constantly reflect on your internal state, especially after eating and taking supplements. Follow your appetite and cravings, but try and keep the foods natural and the supplements rational.

Following my cravings have led me to more positive health then doing anything else. Sometimes we follow too much on the theoretical side and ignore what our body is telling us. Ray has even stated that cravings exist as our body telling us what we really need, which I think intuitively makes a lot of sense. Even for those who believe that's not the case, for those who crave junk food, what they're really craving for us the nutrition behind the junk food. French fries can easily be the potassium and other nutrients in plain potatoes, candy can easily be explained for with sugar that can be consumed through fruit/fruit juice. Chips is the need for salt. What also helps is updating your knowledge base with your experience post craving fulfillment. I once craved buffalo chicken wings very badly, so I went and ate them, and then I felt horrible, so I became wiser in knowing that buffalo chicken wings isn't an appropriate solution, and it's probably the lack of protein/potassium that led to that craving, so consuming cheese or milk is a better answer. This way you can align with cravings with foods that actually heal you and don't harm, and once you've reached that state, you've hit the Panacea, because you'll be able to know exactly what your body needs to operate optimally and feel good.

Stay active, get some light cardio in, get sunlight or take D, stay positive, optimistic, that things will get better as long as you keep trying, and eventually you'll find a solution. Whether it takes days, weeks, months, years, you'll find a solution. And the journey will be well worth it then.

My scalp and skin issues never go away for over ten years.
It's histamine related. Even eating low histamine isn't enough. I think salicylates are an issue too

 

[High_Prob]

@Motif

You may want to check out The Root Cause Protocol

He has an interesting take on the subject of ceruloplasmin and how to support it. Warning: Read with a critical mind, some of his ideas seem questionable....

 

[Spondive]

I have been taking 300 mg zinc gluconate twice a day recently which is about 80 mg elemental zinc.. will see how it goes in the next few weeks... I feel pretty good on it in general.. appetite better and sleep is better.. so far slight increase very slight increase in libido and erectile function

 

[Runenight201]

@High_Prob definitely some useful bits of advice he gives, especially in terms of magnesium supplementation and iron overload. It does seem like people lack magnesium, even eating a Peaty diet, and drinking magnesium infused water really does have noticeable effect on me. I've since started eating avocadoes, almonds, and bananas and have noticed positive effects from those foods. He's also on the money with omega-6, although his recommendation for cod liver oil does concern me...and his adrenal cocktail (is cream of tartar taste any good? sounds sketch to me...) He recommends a low carbohydrate diet so that is a big no no in my book, Taurine and Iodine are good, and I'm considering purchasing a small dosage of iodine to begin supplementing, or perhaps try out potassium ioide that Travis talks about, especially since I don't eat eggs or fish, and eating seaweed sounds gross (sorry Japanese).

 

[Aymen]

Everything There is to Know About Kryptopyrrole & Pyrroluria (High Mauve) - Selfhacked @Motif have you looked at this? How are your b6 levels?

Their solution for high hydroxyhemopyrrolin-2-one, or HPL, treats the symptom not the cause, but apparently provides relief. Have you tried b6 supplementation? Could also eat more bananas, they have high b6 and magnesium

potatoes have high b6 too.

 

[fradon]

One of the hardest questions I've tried to understand is about how long one should take Zinc to increase their serum levels.

What dosage and how frequently does one need to use to restore a zinc deficiency?

I see that The biological half-life of zinc is about 280 days.

So I would love to start some discussion/research on this topic.

10-20 mg daily in cycles of three days on and four days off would be good. then two week break and you can start again


taking 50mg can trigger detoxing and boost immunse system which can lead to allergies and Herxheimer reaction. the reason you don't want to take too mucn zinc is that it creates a lot of metalthinine which detoxes heavy metals but it also detoxes bound copper.

 

[Ulysses]

I don’t take it unless I have recently ejaculated. 15 mg if I ejaculated a little and 30 mg if I have reached a state of sexual exhaustion.

 

[tara]

I took 20mg supplemental zinc once a week when I found it resolved and prevented some skin symptoms.

Anyone know if those instant taste tests for zinc deficiency are meaningful?
I had one indicate slight deficiency a while ago.
I roughly doubled my zinc dose after that - aim for 20mg twice a week.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism (978-1-133-10405-6)

"Overall, about 20% to 30% of zinc is absorbed from the typical U.S. diet. However, fractional zinc absorption varies from approximately 10% to 80%; at higher intakes (such as 20 mg or more) absorption diminishes, whereas at lower intakes absorption increases. For example, 100% of zinc may be absorbed at an intake less than 1 mg, whereas about 40% may be absorbed with a zinc intake of 12 mg [1]. This up- and down-regulation of absorption and the ability to increase and decrease zinc excretion are important for maintaining zinc homeostasis in the body."​

- Even Minimal Zinc Deficiency Impairs Digestion

It's not precise, but dosing with a shovel is unnecessary.

 

[Amazoniac]

If there's little difference in absorption on higher intakes but the adverse impacts are proportional to the dose, the portion that's not uptaken can't be innocuous.

For a total (and typical) daily consumption of 12 mg, it was estimated that 4 mg would be absorbed (which is close to the numbers above). If 4 meals are eaten, you may have 3 mg ingested on each. It's for an entire day, varies between individuals and depends on meal composition, but it helps to illustrate the point:

Spoiler

Supplementation won't start from zero where it's maximized, a share of the capacity has been used, so there will be less room to avoid wastefulness. Something similar to what was done with killcium in another thread:

Spoiler

The added axes are for the supplement.

I think that the state of the previous meal will affect the absorption of the next, making you a poorer absorber once it builds up, however it's something worth experimenting if you're having trouble with this supplemental toxin. If the rest of the trace minerals are covered, I would try about 5 mg twice or 4 mg thrice a day; no need to be precise because there will be a safe margin for errors.

 

[Amazoniac]

Estimated zinc requirements are based on the minimum needed to replace 'endogenous zinc losses', which (on usual intakes) is mainly through faeces, but there are also losses from urine, intatigaueamt/sweat, and ejaculation/menstruation. It's corrected for how much you have to ingest to absorb for what's lost.

If you suspect that your requirements' higher but have no idea where to start, I would modify the factors that must be responsible for it, sudstituting for an outlier value instead of mean. Although some of them are claimed to be constant, if you read the experiments in question, you can still find freaks (exceptional requirements for the exceptional persons that we are), and differences from one experiment to another: pick the most extreme one in case it doesn't lead to an intake that's detrimental.

- Zinc - Dietary Reference Intakes for Vitamin A, Vitamin K, Arsenic, Boron, Chromium, Copper, Iodine, Iron, Manganese, Molybdenum, Nickel, Silicon, Vanadium, and Zinc - NCBI Bookshelf

Spoiler

Nonintestinal losses:

"Urinary zinc excretion declines only with extreme dietary zinc restriction and is not correlated with zinc ingested by young adult men over a range of 4 to 25 mg zinc/day (Baer and King, 1984; Behall et al., 1987; Coudray et al., 1997; Hallfrisch et al., 1987; Holbrook et al., 1989; Hunt JR et al., 1992; Jackson et al., 1984; Johnson et al., 1982, 1993; Lee et al., 1993; Mahalko et al., 1983; Milne et al., 1983; Snedeker et al., 1982; Spencer et al., 1979; Turnlund et al., 1984, 1986; Wada et al., 1985). In men, therefore, zinc excretion via the kidney should be regarded as a constant in calculating zinc requirements, the average excretion being 0.63 mg/day. Though fewer data are available, the same constancy appears to be true for combined integumental and sweat losses (Johnson et al., 1993) and losses in semen (Hunt CD et al., 1992; Johnson et al., 1993) for which the zinc losses average 0.54 and 0.1 mg/day, respectively. Therefore, losses of endogenous zinc via routes other than the intestine can be regarded as a constant over the range of dietary zinc intake that encompasses zinc requirements. This average constant for men has been calculated to be 1.27 mg/day [0.63 + 0.54 + 0.1] of zinc. An equal quantity of zinc must be absorbed to match this loss."

"In 10 studies, the mean urinary loss of zinc from women was 0.44 mg/day (Colin et al., 1983; Greger et al., 1978; Hallfrisch et al., 1987; Hunt JR et al., 1992, 1998; Miller et al., 1998; Swanson and King, 1982; Taper et al., 1980; Turnlund et al., 1991; Wisker et al., 1991). Reported integumental losses for men are multiplied by 0.86 to adjust for the different average surface area of women, and accordingly the average total zinc endogenous losses are 0.46 mg/day for women. Menstrual zinc losses are assumed to average 0.1 mg/day (Hess et al., 1977). Therefore, the calculated total loss of endogenous zinc for women via routes other than the intestine is 1.0 mg/day [0.44 + 0.46 + 0.10]."​

Intestinal losses:

"In contrast to other endogenous zinc losses, the quantity of endogenous zinc excreted via the intestine is positively correlated with the quantity of zinc absorbed over a wide range. This correlation is shown in Figure 12-1. This figure is based on 10 sets of balance data from seven studies (Hunt JR et al., 1992; Jackson et al., 1984; Lee et al., 1993; Taylor et al., 1991; Turnlund et al., 1984, 1986; Wada et al., 1985) of healthy young men, which also included isotopic tracer measurements of fractional zinc absorption. This correlation, in turn, allows for the quantification of daily zinc absorption and intestinal excretion of endogenous zinc. Importantly, this linear relationship, which indicates that for each milligram of zinc absorbed the intestine excretes approximately 0.6 mg/day of endogenous zinc, has been demonstrated only for zinc absorption ranging from 0.8 to 5.5 mg/day. It is also noted that most of these data were relatively short-term, and these variables were not examined while the participants were consuming habitual diets. However, the studies did extend as long as 6 months, a duration that suggests the observed relationship between absorption and endogenous losses via the intestine is a long-term phenomenon. Therefore, in contrast to other endogenous losses of zinc, losses from the intestine cannot be treated as a constant."​

"To achieve balance, absorption must match the sum of nonintestinal and intestinal endogenous zinc losses."

"Corresponding data for women are both limited and divergent (Hunt JR et al., 1992, 1998; Sian et al., 1996; Turnlund et al., 1991). It has therefore been assumed that there are no significant gender differences for this relationship between absorbed zinc and intestinal excretion of endogenous zinc."

"The sum of nonintestinal endogenous zinc losses (1.27 mg/day for men and 1.0 mg/day for women) is added to the linear regression line for excretion of endogenous zinc in the feces versus absorbed zinc (Figure 12-1). These “adjusted” lines depict the quantitative relationship between absorbed zinc and total endogenous zinc losses for men and women."

"The intercept between the dashed line (line of equality for absorbed zinc) and the gender-specific lines is then used to determine the minimal quantity of absorbed zinc required to replace endogenous zinc losses."

Green line on the right is for us, gray is for the rodent (−0.1 mg/d).​

"With this approach, the calculated average total minimal quantity of absorbed zinc required for the men in these studies is 3.84 mg/day (1.27 mg to match endogenous zinc losses from nonintestinal sources and, therefore, 2.57 mg/day to match intestinal endogenous zinc losses). The corresponding value for women is 3.3 mg/ day (1.0 mg/day to match endogenous zinc losses from nonintestinal sources and, therefore, 2.3 mg/day to match intestinal endogenous zinc losses)."

"The EAR is determined from the asymptotic regression of absorbed zinc on zinc intake (Figure 12-2) that was derived from the same data sets used for Figure 12-1. Thus, if 3.84 mg/day of absorbed zinc is required for men, the amount of ingested zinc, and therefore the EAR, is 9.4 mg/day. When this approach is used for women, the EAR is 6.8 mg/day. This value corresponds to average fractional absorptions of 0.41 and 0.48 for men and women, respectively. A similar fractional absorption of 0.4 was observed for adult men fed experimental diets from which zinc bioavailability is likely to be favorable (August et al., 1989)."

"The RDA for zinc is set by using a CV of 10 percent (see Chapter 1) because information is not available on the standard deviation of the requirement. The RDA is defined as equal to the EAR plus twice the CV to cover the needs of 97 to 98 percent of the individuals in the group (therefore, for zinc the RDA is 120 percent of the EAR). The calculated RDA was rounded to the nearest 1 mg."

- Factors that affect zinc bioavailability and losses in adult and elderly populations

Zinc is dangerous, should be regulated as drugs.

 

[Frankdee20]

I would not use more than 30 MG daily, but for short period of time only...

 

[ecstatichamster]

I doubt zinc is safe for the longer run to supplement. I eat some liver and especially sea food (oysters etc.).

 

[not_James_Bond]

@Runenight201 Do you still consume Avocado's and Iodine supplementation?????

 

[Frankdee20]

You should just ensure copper intake is sufficient, liver and oysters, nuts, chocolate all have copper

 

[Runenight201]

@Runenight201 Do you still consume Avocado's and Iodine supplementation?????

No I do not. I also bought magnesium ions one time and attempted to drink them with some water and found it absolutely foul. I’m flirting with the idea of fermented fruit juices. I think there’s something really good there.

 

[Motif]

So a supplement with 15 mg zinc won’t be absorbed anyway, but only a few mg of it?

 

[GelatinGoblin]

Why not red meat?

 

[Amazoniac]

There's the issue of inhibitors in the "diet" that will demand more, but members don't seem to consume a lot of plants.

The interference from phytate is known.

- Dietary Reference Intakes for Zinc May Require Adjustment for Phytate Intake Based upon Model Predictions

They adjust phytate and zinc based on molecular weight (660 and 65.4 Da) to relativize them, yielding a factor that's close to 10 (660/66). They is in equal parts (1:1) when phytate is (for example) at 350 mg and zinc 35 mg. A ratio of 10:1 would be 3500 mg of phytate and 35 mg of zinc.

It was plotted how much zinc is absorbed according to the dose ingested and presence of phytate. Then, they determined how each can vary to yield the amount uptaken needed for sufficiency. A linear relationship of inhibition was noted.

If the information is interpreted in terms of ratio, lowering makes it easier to 'attain' sufficiency on small amounts of zinc, whereas increasing will eventually reach a high ratio where it's impossible to get enough zinc because there will be too much phytate inhibiting (no intersection in Fig. 3). They found this to occur with a ratio of 11:1 and 15:1 for men and women.

Saving for later or never:
- Revisiting phytate-element interactions: implications for iron, zinc and calcium bioavailability, with emphasis on legumes


Regarding sperminators, losses of 2+ mg per ejaculation only if you're Mike doing voluntourism in an orphanage (Gerard, 2021).

An absorption of 7 mg or so is when the uptake is maximized for a relatively large dose. For comparison, in the estimation above, they relied on 3.8 mg of absorbed zinc (almost half of that) derived from about 9 mg ingested.

Considering the limitations in absorption, losing such amounts of zinc each time would easily lead to deficiency in the population. Not a concern for our rodent: zinc4life.

- AIDS and Zinc Deficiency

"The average volume of semen is 3 to 5 mL per ejaculation.[2] Semen is complex, with many proteins, enzymes, and prostaglandins, and is remarkable in the quantity of zinc it contains. There is 0.15 mg/mL on average, but the range is broad. In one study, 20% of 456 men had seminal zinc in the range of 0.2 to 0.5 mg/mL, and 4% of these 456 men had seminal zinc in the range of 0.4 to 0.5 mg/mL.[3] Most of the zinc is from the prostate. The average zinc content of normal prostatic fluid is 0.45 mg/mL, with a range of 0.15 to 1.0 mg/mL.[4]​

​

Those homosexuals who have a compulsively overactive sexuality will have a large loss of zinc. The amount will depend on the number of ejaculations, the size of the ejaculate, and the concentration of zinc in the semen. It could often be 2 to 5 mg/day and sometimes more. Sexual excitement causes increased secretion of prostatic fluid into the bladder (resting rate is 0.5 to 2.0 mL/day) and further loss of zinc. Sweat contains about 1 mg/L."​

 

[Amazoniac]

The issue with the maximum absorption of 7 mg/d is that it's an average value from chronic intake. It remains valid, yet absorption varies between individuals and single doses are better uptaken.

- The Potential for Zinc Stable Isotope Techniques and Modelling to Determine Optimal Zinc Supplementation

Spoiler

Claims that the capacity is restored after hours are questionable, it's a cumulative toxin, I might have to reconsider the distribution of dosing. Perhaps a person without limitations whose requirements are elevated has a higher saturation margin.