Despite Striking Increase In Dieting And Exercise, Obesity Is Skyrocketing

[Kingpinguin]

Nothing is- all is like that-
I just want to pinpoint a general tendency/direction
I still think, mostly 50-90% will lose on keto/carnivore
70-90% will gain if they follow peat or ,,peat groups"

I think keto does not work if youre undereating nutrients and/or calories for long time, or while being to stressed
Thats why a classical bodybuiling aproach works, and it works 4 a long time...
Proteins (100-200g)and fat(40-100gram), carb cycling (100-500) to activity
Bulking and cuting once a year for 2-3months... eating maintance the rest, having cheat days, having days of extreme activity... training most of the year but making longer or shorter ,,holydays"
Then you can go keto or low carb for a month or two and get ripped...

Discipline and hard work is what everyone lacks, me being the first

Searching for a magic pill that allows us to eat as much as we can, stuffing the belly while sitting will never work... if it does i will be the first one to ,,buy it"

I doubt 70-90% will gain on a ”peat diet” or like you also put it ”peat group” diet. Ray first off never really gives any dietary guidelines. So we cant even speculate what a peat diet would be. The most accurate would be eating what peat eats in the same amounts he does. Sure some peaters of the ”peat group” advice to eat hypercaloric or 3000-4000+ calories mainly from simple sugars. But many other peaters around these forums does not support that. Infact this forum is filled with different random people calling themselves peaters or liking to think that they are some representative of peats work or this forum. Which is just straight up falls. Just as there so much awesome information and good advice in this forum theres an equall amount to bad information and bad advice on this forum. And there certainly is a lot of experimentation. One person write about their experiement eating 4000 calories of simple sugars per day. And other people then suddenly start posting with topics like ”Weight gain on peat diet”
Well we already taken part that there is no such thing as the peat diet. There’s just recommendations of foods you should eat and you should avoid. You should try to eat a nutrient dense diet, avoiding pufa. The simple sugar recomendation is great. Eat fruits. Get some sugar to support thyroid and metabolism. People just interpret everything their own way. Specially when it comes to peats work. Why you may wonder? Well because peat left it open for interpretation. He does not give any guideliness. People dont like that. People want rules to follow. They want a map they can read in detail. Peat doesnt want to give anyone that because he know the outcome will be disaster. Thats why he doesnt read this forum.
If people just started using common sense instead they might be succesfull at losing weight.

 

[Dino D]

I doubt 70-90% will gain on a ”peat diet” or like you also put it ”peat group” diet. Ray first off never really gives any dietary guidelines. So we cant even speculate what a peat diet would be. The most accurate would be eating what peat eats in the same amounts he does. Sure some peaters of the ”peat group” advice to eat hypercaloric or 3000-4000+ calories mainly from simple sugars. But many other peaters around these forums does not support that. Infact this forum is filled with different random people calling themselves peaters or liking to think that they are some representative of peats work or this forum. Which is just straight up falls. Just as there so much awesome information and good advice in this forum theres an equall amount to bad information and bad advice on this forum. And there certainly is a lot of experimentation. One person write about their experiement eating 4000 calories of simple sugars per day. And other people then suddenly start posting with topics like ”Weight gain on peat diet”
Well we already taken part that there is no such thing as the peat diet. There’s just recommendations of foods you should eat and you should avoid. You should try to eat a nutrient dense diet, avoiding pufa. The simple sugar recomendation is great. Eat fruits. Get some sugar to support thyroid and metabolism. People just interpret everything their own way. Specially when it comes to peats work. Why you may wonder? Well because peat left it open for interpretation. He does not give any guideliness. People dont like that. People want rules to follow. They want a map they can read in detail. Peat doesnt want to give anyone that because he know the outcome will be disaster. Thats why he doesnt read this forum.
If people just started using common sense instead they might be succesfull at losing weight.

I dont agree
Youre relativizing to much, its not like peat didnt say anything or like he said everything... there is a baseline
Siping milk and juice, adding sugar, maybe dairy, eating organ meats-from time to time... eating more than 2.000 calories, 3-4.000 or more... eating often, sometimes eating while sleeping,,, carbs being the turbo main macro, eating 100 gram of proteins, carb ratio 4:1 or more, some fat or no fat, only saturated fat, salt salt salt, coffee coffee coffee...
and then some sups are also very often recommended... taking thyroid also...
So you cant say that there isnt any peat diet at all...
and obviously going high fiber, low carb, keto, lot of starch, muscle meat based, whey, omega 3, high iron is anti peat!!!

my take is: salt bloats and what not, dairy is allergenic for most, juice isnt natural and makes you cold and hungry, if you dont tolerate coffee you will bee an axious rocket, carb carb carb= fat fat fat... i dont want to slide to much, my point is, that fat people eating high carb (and high calories) will get fatter or stay fat

 

[Kingpinguin]

I dont agree
Youre relativizing to much, its not like peat didnt say anything or like he said everything... there is a baseline
Siping milk and juice, adding sugar, maybe dairy, eating organ meats-from time to time... eating more than 2.000 calories, 3-4.000 or more... eating often, sometimes eating while sleeping,,, carbs being the turbo main macro, eating 100 gram of proteins, carb ratio 4:1 or more, some fat or no fat, only saturated fat, salt salt salt, coffee coffee coffee...
and then some sups are also very often recommended... taking thyroid also...
So you cant say that there isnt any peat diet at all...
and obviously going high fiber, low carb, keto, lot of starch, muscle meat based, whey, omega 3, high iron is anti peat!!!

my take is: salt bloats and what not, dairy is allergenic for most, juice isnt natural and makes you cold and hungry, if you dont tolerate coffee you will bee an axious rocket, carb carb carb= fat fat fat... i dont want to slide to much, my point is, that fat people eating high carb (and high calories) will get fatter or stay fat

Absolutely. Like Haidut posted. If you have metabolic problems already which disables your ability to use carbs as energy then that eaten carb will go to storage rather than being burned by cells. So theres a reason for overweight people likely gaining on a high carb diet. I havent seen peat recommending anywhere to the amounts of calories you mentioned. If you have a source please point me to it. What I do believe peat has said is that if you are suffering from high cortisol/stress it could be that you’re not supplying enough carbs. Because that is cortisols job. To keep blood sugar levels stabe or supply extra energy in emergency situations. Long term having low blood sugar will cause long term high cortisol levels which will make you sick. That doesnt mean that ray recommends everyone to feast excess calories from carbs all the time. Its individual. And you have to use common sense to figure out what you need to focus on. Pulling everything over one edge saying that peat recommends everyone to eat excess sugar is not right. Thats the thing. There is no black and white. But my point is people dont like that. People get frustrated when one person has success and they domt following the same diet. But does that make sense? No it doesnt. Everyone is different and Ray knows that.

 

[SaltGirl]

I would add, regarding keto, is that Matt Stone's blog came out dietary recovery after Paleo which is in many ways a proto-keto diet. Regardless of what you may think of Matt Stone he made one observation on the keto-folks: There is a honeymoon period where people can potentially lose a lot of weight before it starts creeping up on you again. Even Danny Roddy went keto(with Pemmican) and felt bloated and horrible.

That is the underlying problem with the Atkins/Keto diet: you'll feel like a million dollars early on which gives you a slanted picture of where you might end up.

 

[methylenewhite]

My partner gets into ketosis as soon as 4-5 hours after a meal. Believe or not. She has been accused of being alcoholic since her childhood because she has acetone booze-like smell just 4-5 hours after a meal, her family has no clue about keto and etc. And she has to force herself to eat because she is never hungry after any meal anymore. She is massage therapist with 2-3-5 hours a day of manual massage work. 3x week Jiu-Jitsu, 2-3 gym and she is NEVER tired, she falls asleep even not lying down, I mean she can sleep not having horizontal position lol, at 9-10-11 pm and she is wide awake at 5.30am. She is able to do some homework like cleaning and washing things too. I know what you about to say - she's running on stress hormones. I would be happy to live less but wide awake and enjoying instead of mummy-like state I have.

 

[LLight]

A keto diet, formulated by a constraint on carbs only, can allow people eating ***t like low carb desserts, fat bombs, etc.

I'm pretty sure that low carb diets, like implemented by a majority of its adopters, are far from the optimal one (which might be person's specific) could implement, if for example, they ate way more proteins (some people report having higher ketones after eating a carnivore diet with more proteins) with fats coming mainly from ruminants (with bone marrow), with a non zero amount of offals in their diet, not too much liquids.

Given what some people report as health gains with the carnivore diet (there are also failures), I'm pretty much convinced that eating plant while low carbing is not optimal.

There may have compounds in plants that inhibit the fat metabolism. Or maybe, eating "too much" saturated fat prevents the formation of a microbiome able to degrade plants' toxins. However, almost all low carbers (except carnivore of course) have "some veggies" with their meals.

That said, there is probably a non-negligible part of the population which is not compatible with a low carb diet (and which may be over-represented on this forum).

 

[ecstatichamster]

So the theories:

1. endocrine disruptors/stress is higher including EMF sources

2. PUFA consumption is higher

3. Emphasis on yo yo dieting and stressful dieting lowers metabolism due to an ideal body image -- this is my favorite theory.

 

[Dino D]

You guys are funny
Fuc'x keto...
I dont say keto
I say carbs according to needs and activity...
Keto 2-6 weaks A YEAR IF YOU LIKE
some days high carb
Some periods a year high carb

Fat sedentary human=100-200 gram of carbs a day...

Where do you see keto?

I just say keto makes you lose weigjt most of the time, for most of the people... not everyone

Peat makes you gain, running in circles here

 

[opethfeldt]

It's a shame it's so difficult to explain to people it's hormones that determine your weight and not your activity levels. I guess it's a reflection of our "more, better, faster" culture here in the west. If you have an issue, the solution is always to do more rather than figuring out how things work and optimizing the situation.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I just say keto makes you lose weigjt most of the time, for most of the people... not everyone

Yeah, and I have taken issue with this particular claim. I don't see any evidence to support it. Not in studies, and not in real world people attempting said diet. I think keto can cause quick water weight loss in most people, like any low carb diet, but nothing special beyond that. I have seen people fail even with that.

Keto is more insane than just normal Low Carb diets, and there are plenty of issues with those. Due to restrictions on both carbs AND protein, it will chew up muscles and organs quicker than any other diet out there, including the more general low carb diets, that at least provide quite a bit of protein. The Keto craze is just pure nonsense.

 

[Gone Peating]

It's a shame it's so difficult to explain to people it's hormones that determine your weight and not your activity levels. I guess it's a reflection of our "more, better, faster" culture here in the west. If you have an issue, the solution is always to do more rather than figuring out how things work and optimizing the situation.

Very true

Us westerners are very assbackwards and illogical most of the time even though we think very highly of ourselves

 

[Dino D]

It's a shame it's so difficult to explain to people it's hormones that determine your weight and not your activity levels. I guess it's a reflection of our "more, better, faster" culture here in the west. If you have an issue, the solution is always to do more rather than figuring out how things work and optimizing the situation.

Its a shame that you can think that any energyproducing and storing machine can,,,
produce more energy then its capacity
Store more energy then its tank

A humen has an energy output that is limited
That energy output can rise but not unlimited, you can add more calories and your energy output will rise but not 4ever (no matter the hormons) when you hit your energy output limits, and your storage limits, you will gain more fat or produce more excess fecal matter
You cant eat 10.000 calories and burn 10.000 calories while sitting, after you hit your limits, you will store fat

The average fat human eats a lot more then self estimated, he is often sedentary and has a slower metabolism, also a wrecked carb metabolism... because carbs mess with hunger levels its easy to overeat... all the time you have in your body 200-300 grams stored as glycogen (unles youre keto) and you take energy in some other mechanisms trought the day, so the average fat sedentary persom can handle only 100-200 aditional gram of carbs per day, because his storage is full, his metabolism is low or at a platoe...

A car and its tank cant be tanked after its full, it sips over, it will not burn much more fuel if its working and standing, you have to drive and press the gas pedal to burn more energy/fuell
Yes you can tank kerosine or nitro, then you will burn a bit.more while standing, but that has limits to, and puting nitro is not ,,healthy for the car"

A sedentary fat body has no reason to work on ,,high tourqe"
Adding fuel will not change that, nothing gets ,,faster" while slowing donw or standing...
You dont breath faster if you sit vs run,
Your tempereture is always higher (run vs sit)
Your intestines dont move, your cells dont activate (sit vs run), carb is the no1 energy source and ading excess energy will not transform the energy or cells, it will be stored

If you overcharge a battery it explodes, when your tank is full it sips over, we dont explode because we shi× and store fat... but also a few people died because of hardcore overeating

But i get you, its not logic, numbers, energy, machines or math
You need hormomes and no pufa, then you can sip sugar na sat fat as much as you want, and everybody can have a super fast metabolism like that one guy who eated his whole life 4000 calories and were lean and skinny,
Also everybody can be bolt, have a 10inch penis, get very tall and have full hair at their 50's, its about sugar, taurine, thyroid, progesterone calories, yea yea

 

[LLight]

Due to restrictions on both carbs AND protein, it will chew up muscles and organs quicker than any other diet out there, including the more general low carb diets, that at least provide quite a bit of protein.

Honestly, I don't understand why it should be that way. By definition, during a ketogenic diet, your body is running on ketones (and fat) and not glucose (except some blood cells and some part of the brain). They made an experience where they lowered fasting people blood glucose into very hypoglycemic territory without any symptoms for these people.

Moreover, studies do not indicate that protein is much more used during very low carbohydrate diets:
Very-low-carbohydrate diets and preservation of muscle mass
And ketone bodies seem to have anticatabolic properties for muscles: https://www.cell.com/trends/endocrinology-metabolism/fulltext/S1043-2760(19)30012-8

That said, people report being in ketosis with higher protein amounts...

 

[opethfeldt]

Its a shame that you can think that any energyproducing and storing machine can,,,
produce more energy then its capacity
Store more energy then its tank

A humen has an energy output that is limited
That energy output can rise but not unlimited, you can add more calories and your energy output will rise but not 4ever (no matter the hormons) when you hit your energy output limits, and your storage limits, you will gain more fat or produce more excess fecal matter
You cant eat 10.000 calories and burn 10.000 calories while sitting, after you hit your limits, you will store fat

The average fat human eats a lot more then self estimated, he is often sedentary and has a slower metabolism, also a wrecked carb metabolism... because carbs mess with hunger levels its easy to overeat... all the time you have in your body 200-300 grams stored as glycogen (unles youre keto) and you take energy in some other mechanisms trought the day, so the average fat sedentary persom can handle only 100-200 aditional gram of carbs per day, because his storage is full, his metabolism is low or at a platoe...

A car and its tank cant be tanked after its full, it sips over, it will not burn much more fuel if its working and standing, you have to drive and press the gas pedal to burn more energy/fuell
Yes you can tank kerosine or nitro, then you will burn a bit.more while standing, but that has limits to, and puting nitro is not ,,healthy for the car"

A sedentary fat body has no reason to work on ,,high tourqe"
Adding fuel will not change that, nothing gets ,,faster" while slowing donw or standing...
You dont breath faster if you sit vs run,
Your tempereture is always higher (run vs sit)
Your intestines dont move, your cells dont activate (sit vs run), carb is the no1 energy source and ading excess energy will not transform the energy or cells, it will be stored

If you overcharge a battery it explodes, when your tank is full it sips over, we dont explode because we shi× and store fat... but also a few people died because of hardcore overeating

But i get you, its not logic, numbers, energy, machines or math
You need hormomes and no pufa, then you can sip sugar na sat fat as much as you want, and everybody can have a super fast metabolism like that one guy who eated his whole life 4000 calories and were lean and skinny,
Also everybody can be bolt, have a 10inch penis, get very tall and have full hair at their 50's, its about sugar, taurine, thyroid, progesterone calories, yea yea

Most of the obese women I know probably eat 2000 calories a day, tops. It's hormones. I'm not suggesting you can eat whatever you want and lose weight if your hormones are balanced. What I am saying is that having balanced hormones will, over time, lean you out. Without the need for calorie counting or exercise. I've experienced this firsthand.

 

[Dino D]

Most of the obese women I know probably eat 2000 calories a day, tops. It's hormones. I'm not suggesting you can eat whatever you want and lose weight if your hormones are balanced. What I am saying is that having balanced hormones will, over time, lean you out. Without the need for calorie counting or exercise. I've experienced this firsthand.

You can increase your basal from 1800 to 2500cal, maybe 3000... but not 4-6000 or more with eating 800gram of carbs and staying lean...

Also i dont accept weight loss from 35%bf to 30 or 30 to 25%, anything can do that, give me weight loss under 20%bf, or better under 15 (im between 15-20% bf btw, closer to 15)
183 cm, 85 kg
I consider my self fat and slightly obese
I sit and eat all day
I was sporty for 15 years (now im 28), and i ate much more when active, still had fat, i ate much
I lose only if i limit calories
Thats a constant 4 ever
I never lost by adding, evan when i was a kid...
My health is ok
If i would quit my job, spend much time outside, train in moderatin for 1 year, and eat whatever (just not sipping sugar and milk) whole food in normal quantities 2-3000 calories i would be super healthy and in shape...
I sit, stess in job and life, no consistency in diet, no discipline

Its not the iron, starch, sugar, meat, salt or whatever fine tune paramerar, there is no magic pill, be honest to your self

No discipline, siting and stress, no outside time, while sipping high calories and fast burning sugar all day, with bunch of sups that get more more comoplex every day is NOT GOD!

 

[tankasnowgod]

Honestly, I don't understand why it should be that way. By definition, during a ketogenic diet, your body is running on ketones (and fat) and not glucose (except some blood cells and some part of the brain). They made an experience where they lowered fasting people blood glucose into very hypoglycemic territory without any symptoms for these people.

Moreover, studies do not indicate that protein is much more used during very low carbohydrate diets:
Very-low-carbohydrate diets and preservation of muscle mass
And ketone bodies seem to have anticatabolic properties for muscles: https://www.cell.com/trends/endocrinology-metabolism/fulltext/S1043-2760(19)30012-8

That said, people report being in ketosis with higher protein amounts...

Are you not familiar with the concept of gluconeogenesis? Or that even Low Carb advocates admit that a normal person needs at least 130 grams of glucose a day to survive, even if running largely on ketones? If that glucose isn't eaten, and glycogen is zero, it all gets made from protein. If inadequate glucose and protein are eaten along with no glycogen, that protein shortfall has to come from muscles and/or vital organs. Pretty simple, really, but no one really thinks fad diets through. Also explains why, long term, someone like Jimmy Moore gains lots of fat (or edema) and has terrible muscle tone.

Also, that first meta analysis wouldn't apply to Keto diets where both carbs and protein are restricted. See the part on dietary protien-

"A VLCARB is almost always relatively high in protein. There is evidence that high protein intake increases protein synthesis by increasing systemic amino acid availability [21], which is a potent stimulus of muscle protein synthesis [22]. During weight loss, higher protein intake reduces loss of muscle mass and increases loss of body fat [9]. It has been proposed that the branched-chain amino acid leucine interacts with the insulin signaling pathway to stimulate downstream control of protein synthesis, resulting in maintenance of muscle mass during periods of restricted energy intake [10]. A recent study by Harber et al. reported that a VLCARB/high-protein diet increases skeletal muscle protein synthesis despite a dramatic reduction in insulin levels [8]."

So, if you slash protein on a low carb diet as well (which is exactly what Keto advocates), you aren't getting the high protein protection.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Its not the iron, starch, sugar, meat, salt or whatever fine tune paramerar, there is no magic pill, be honest to your self

Believe whatever you want. The fact remains that before iron fortification and the introduction of high PUFA diets, sedentary folks were very thin, almost extremely so, as they just lost their appetite. It had nothing to do with Willpower.

 

[Dino D]

Are you not familiar with the concept of gluconeogenesis? Or that even Low Carb advocates admit that a normal person needs at least 130 grams of glucose a day to survive, even if running largely on ketones? If that glucose isn't eaten, and glycogen is zero, it all gets made from protein. If inadequate glucose and protein are eaten along with no glycogen, that protein shortfall has to come from muscles and/or vital organs. Pretty simple, really, but no one really thinks fad diets through. Also explains why, long term, someone like Jimmy Moore gains lots of fat (or edema) and has terrible muscle tone.

Also, that first meta analysis wouldn't apply to Keto diets where both carbs and protein are restricted. See the part on dietary protien-

"A VLCARB is almost always relatively high in protein. There is evidence that high protein intake increases protein synthesis by increasing systemic amino acid availability [21], which is a potent stimulus of muscle protein synthesis [22]. During weight loss, higher protein intake reduces loss of muscle mass and increases loss of body fat [9]. It has been proposed that the branched-chain amino acid leucine interacts with the insulin signaling pathway to stimulate downstream control of protein synthesis, resulting in maintenance of muscle mass during periods of restricted energy intake [10]. A recent study by Harber et al. reported that a VLCARB/high-protein diet increases skeletal muscle protein synthesis despite a dramatic reduction in insulin levels [8]."

So, if you slash protein on a low carb diet as well (which is exactly what Keto advocates), you aren't getting the high protein protection.

Then, You see, 130 gram of glucose/carbs is enough for one day to live sit and just survive... if you move you can take more, be it from proteins or carbs... better from carbs

 

[LLight]

Are you not familiar with the concept of gluconeogenesis? Or that even Low Carb advocates admit that a normal person needs at least 130 grams of glucose a day to survive, even if running largely on ketones? If that glucose isn't eaten, and glycogen is zero, it all gets made from protein. If inadequate glucose and protein are eaten along with no glycogen, that protein shortfall has to come from muscles and/or vital organs. Pretty simple, really, but no one really thinks fad diets through. Also explains why, long term, someone like Jimmy Moore gains lots of fat (or edema) and has terrible muscle tone.

Also, that first meta analysis wouldn't apply to Keto diets where both carbs and protein are restricted. See the part on dietary protien-

"A VLCARB is almost always relatively high in protein. There is evidence that high protein intake increases protein synthesis by increasing systemic amino acid availability [21], which is a potent stimulus of muscle protein synthesis [22]. During weight loss, higher protein intake reduces loss of muscle mass and increases loss of body fat [9]. It has been proposed that the branched-chain amino acid leucine interacts with the insulin signaling pathway to stimulate downstream control of protein synthesis, resulting in maintenance of muscle mass during periods of restricted energy intake [10]. A recent study by Harber et al. reported that a VLCARB/high-protein diet increases skeletal muscle protein synthesis despite a dramatic reduction in insulin levels [8]."

So, if you slash protein on a low carb diet as well (which is exactly what Keto advocates), you aren't getting the high protein protection.

Well, I am aware of neoglucogenesis, but it can also use glycerol from triglycerides in addition of amino acids. And its existence doesn't prove its necessity in that case.

I'm not sure I ever saw a proper proof of the 130g claim, so if you have one please post it.

In people fasting: Brain Metabolism during Fasting

"With measured cerebral blood flow of 45 ml/100 g of tissue per min, and assuming a brain size of 1400 g the 24 hr glucose oxidation would approximate 24 g, which agrees well with the theoretical maximum of 33 g calculated from nitrogen execretion and glycerol from adipose tissue as described above. The third confirmatory evidence for this marked reduction in glucose metabolism has been data, which obtained from hepatic and renal vein catheterization studies, demonstrated that the liver almost totally
ceases to synthesize glucose from amino acids and the kidney assumes the role of the major source of this diminished amount of glucose daily produced and consumed during starvation."

I'm not sure how Jimmy Moore is relevant to this discussion about keto diets. We could mention the fat people of the "Ray Peat diet" and that would not invalidate it? I could cite the guy who fasted for more than 1 year, supervised by doctors and to my knowledge, who did not lose all his muscles, but again, that would not invalidate your reasoning.

Agreed about your comment on the study.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I'm not sure how Jimmy Moore is relevant to this discussion about keto diets. We could mention the fat people of the "Ray Peat diet" and that would not invalidate it? I could cite the guy who fasted for more than 1 year, supervised by doctors and to my knowledge, who did not lose all his muscles, but again, that would not invalidate your reasoning.

Jimmy Moore has been doing a Keto diet now longer than anyone else in modern times, and likely longer than anyone in history. Even when the Keto diet is started for children with epilepsy, it only lasts 2-3 years. Moore jumped on the Keto bandwagon before anyone else, and has maintained it longer than anyone else.

But again, I don't understand why anyone would expect anything different from muscle wasting on a true ketogenic diet. The two macronutrients most important for muscles are protein and carbohydrate. If you eliminate one and seriously restrict the other, muscle wasting is exactly what you would expect, along with fat gain from a lowered metabolism and 80% (or more) of fat in the diet. Moore is relevant because his condition proves exactly what would be expected to happen long term on a ketogenic diet.

And I don't understand why anyone fell for this keto idea in the first place. Low Carb could at least be painted as fun, "The Steak and Salad Superdiet!" But the "Eat Butter and Mayonnaise like a Meal" diet just doesn't have the same sort of appeal.

If you have long term studies of adults doing an 80% fat keto diet supervised for six months to a year, by all means, post them.