Calcium Citrate Instead Of All Other Calcium Sources

Logan-

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I know Ray Peat is against taking calcium citrate and recommends calcium carbonate. I am allergic to milk, and I don’t want to take calcium carbonate supplements because I think those can affect the ph of the digestive system, leading to digestive problems and microbial shift in susceptible people.

I take 1000 mg calcium citrate every day. Along with vitamin K2 and vitamin D. Do you think this is a good way to increase my calcium level? Does anyone else take calcium citrate instead of calcium carbonate (or oyster shell powder, ground eggshells, boiled greens) supplements? Do you find calcium citrate a good supplement?
 

Dave Clark

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Has anyone tired calcium orotate? Has anyone had any success with it? I read opposing views on the orotates, but Dr. Nieper used it for about 30 years on his patients, apparently with good results.
 

sunraiser

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I used calcium citrate for fair while. Carbonate caused digestive issues for me much in the way you described. Having it with vinegar helps though.

Citrate I found to be dehydrating. I took with salt water sometimes and it seemed to help, but it definitely ***** with electrolytes. It certainly delivers some calcium however.

I'm currently adjusting to raw milk, I'll report properly in a week or so but it doesn't cause the same reaction as pasteurised at least.

Pure calcium carbonate with 1 or 2 tbspoons of vinegar is worth a go. See how you get on.
 

fradon

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I know Ray Peat is against taking calcium citrate and recommends calcium carbonate. I am allergic to milk, and I don’t want to take calcium carbonate supplements because I think those can affect the ph of the digestive system, leading to digestive problems and microbial shift in susceptible people.

I take 1000 mg calcium citrate every day. Along with vitamin K2 and vitamin D. Do you think this is a good way to increase my calcium level? Does anyone else take calcium citrate instead of calcium carbonate (or oyster shell powder, ground eggshells, boiled greens) supplements? Do you find calcium citrate a good supplement?

i've been suing TUMS for calcium lately and one postiive effect is even though it is an anti acid it increaes stomach acid in the long run

i also take CALcitrate from time to time but most citrate can have MSG and i have issues with it.

calcium carbonate will reduce acidity in the blood and even stop neck and shoulder pain but its not good taking it in the long run...
 

Zpol

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I know Ray Peat is against taking calcium citrate and recommends calcium carbonate. I am allergic to milk, and I don’t want to take calcium carbonate supplements because I think those can affect the ph of the digestive system, leading to digestive problems and microbial shift in susceptible people.

I take 1000 mg calcium citrate every day. Along with vitamin K2 and vitamin D. Do you think this is a good way to increase my calcium level? Does anyone else take calcium citrate instead of calcium carbonate (or oyster shell powder, ground eggshells, boiled greens) supplements? Do you find calcium citrate a good supplement?
Citrate is not recommended.
"Citrate causes you to loose calcium in your urine...or misplace it" ~RP
It can also inactivate the functioning of ceruloplasmin.
I used to take citrate, I now have switched to calcium carbonate (also cannot tolerate any form of dairy), I take 500mg eggshell calcium with 1000mg buffered Vit. C (i get they hypoallergenic kind), and 250 mg magnesium glycinate 2x per day, and this seems to be okay in my majorly f'd up guts.

Ray Peat on reasonable daily calcium intake, calcium supplements.
 

Melba

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I take calcium from 'Hydroxyapatite' it is a major component and an essential ingredient of normal bone and teeth. Hydroxyapatite makes up bone mineral and the matrix of teeth. It is hydroxyapatite that gives bones and teeth their rigidity.

I also take magnesium at a different time away from calcium,magnesium helps put calcium in bones ,vitamin D also helps with absorption.

The body cannot absorb more than 400mg of calcium at a time so you are best to spread your dose throughout the day
 

Amazoniac

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Since salts of organic acids dissociate during digestion, we have one more reason not to be concerned about citrate: it occurs naturally in the diet in much greater amounts and in the supplement form it will have calcium along.

- Calcium Citrate and Vitamin D in the Treatment of Osteoporosis

"Under physiological conditions, calcium is primarily (90%) absorbed in the small intestine (duodenum > jejunum > ileum). The efficiency of this process can be affected by a number of different factors."

"The capacity of the small intestine to absorb calcium salts depends not only on the amount of calcium ingested but also on the solubility and ionization of the salts, both of which are pH dependent. Not all salts are pH dependent to the same extent; however, calcium carbonate, for example, is quite typical in this respect in that it is relatively insoluble at high pH and needs gastric acid to be absorbed.[56]"

"Most calcium salts or compounds need hydrochloric acid for conversion into soluble Ca2+ (figure 1).[57]"

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"This is why in addition to absorption being reduced during fasting, fractional absorption of calcium from the diet in general diminishes in patients with reduced gastric acid secretion and is proportional to the ionization and dissolving capacity of the calcium salts. Calcium carbonate is highly insoluble unless converted into calcium chloride by hydrochloric acid, but other organic salts such as calcium citrate, calcium lactate and calcium gluconate are more soluble and ionizable at neutral pH.[57]"

"In patients with achlorhydria, absorption of calcium from calcium citrate is significantly higher than from calcium carbonate (figure 2). In one study, the mean±SD fractional absorption of calcium from calcium citrate was approximately ten times higher than that from calcium carbonate (0.453 ± 0.88 vs 0.047 ± 0.009, respectively, in serum and 0.401 ± 0.038 vs 0.052 ± 0.018, respectively, in urine).[58]"

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"Other studies utilizing various techniques to measure intestinal calcium absorption have also demonstrated that calcium citrate absorption during fasting is greater than that of calcium lactogluconate/carbonate[59] or calcium carbonate.[60,61]"

"It is believed that when the Ca2+ supply is sufficient, calcitriol synthesis is inhibited and transcellular transport becomes saturated, whereby the paracellular absorption mechanism becomes predominant. In contrast, when the supply of Ca2+ is limited, the saturable transcellular mechanism plays a predominant role. Therefore, when large amounts of a salt that is not particularly soluble or ionizable are ingested, this may be sufficient to saturate the transcellular mechanism but not sufficient to significantly stimulate the paracellular mechanism. However, if a soluble or ionizable food or calcium salt is administered once the transcellular process is saturated, it will continue to be absorbed by way of the paracellular mechanism, as demonstrated in a study in which increasing dietary calcium intake from 502 mg to 1071 mg in a group of young people doubled their calcium absorption.[70]"

"Clinical data from a number of different sources show that calcium citrate behaves differently in terms of absorption, solubility, bioavailability, tolerability and compatibility with other drugs or nutrients and/or lithogenicity, on a full stomach, when fasting or with a reduction in gastric secretions."

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"Calcium citrate increases the urinary elimination of calcium, but also of citrate, and simultaneously reduces the elimination of calcium oxalate and phosphate.[89,90] This then decreases the risk of calculus formation[89,90] and means that calcium citrate can be used even in the presence of renal lithiasis.[87] The effects of calcium citrate 800 mg/day for 2 weeks on urinary saturation with calcium oxalate compared with placebo were evaluated in 18 postmenopausal women with no renal calculi.[90] The study found that although calcium citrate increased urinary calcium and decreased urinary oxalate (figure 5), it did not change urinary saturation of calcium oxalate and therefore did not increase the risk of calculus formation in the short or the long term.[90] Furthermore, the administration of calcium citrate for 6 months in women aged between 37 and 68 years with a history of renal calculi did not increase the risk of renal calculi, even in these predisposed patients.[87]"


"Another significant adverse effect is the potential capacity of dietary calcium or calcium from supplements to interfere with the absorption of nutrients such as iron, zinc, magnesium, copper and manganese.[91-94] One study reported that calcium carbonate inhibited the absorption of iron by 62%, and that calcium citrate, to a somewhat lesser degree, caused 49% inhibition.[91] The effect of calcium salts on absorption could be minimized by not taking the calcium with meals. This is more feasible with calcium salts such as citrate since they do not require the participation of hydrochloric acid for optimal absorption. Moreover, taking calcium apart from meal times would minimize the negative effect of some fibres, foods with high oxalic content, phytates, fats and dietary phosphates on the absorption of calcium itself.[88]"

"One adverse effect generally attributed to calcium salts is abdominal distension. Flatulence and gas are generated by the release of LR2, which is dissolved in the stomach by the action of hydrochloric acid. Therefore, calcium citrate and other salts that do not produce LR2 [directly] (figure 1) and/or that can be taken outside meal times would be more acceptable to patients and could facilitate compliance with treatment in both the short and the long term."

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artist

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I know this is an old thread but I wanted to thank you @Amazoniac, I have been puzzling over this citric acid thing recently myself. There is something like a teaspoon worth of citric acid in 2 glasses of orange juice. If citric acid is so harmful, why is Ray advocating significant consumption of citrus juices? I feel like this is one of those blind spots that has been repeated ad nauseum without thinking it through.
 

Amazoniac

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I know this is an old thread but I wanted to thank you @Amazoniac, I have been puzzling over this citric acid thing recently myself. There is something like a teaspoon worth of citric acid in 2 glasses of orange juice. If citric acid is so harmful, why is Ray advocating significant consumption of citrus juices? I feel like this is one of those blind spots that has been repeated ad nauseum without thinking it through.
It's the elite, they don't want us to get to the truth. They blur the picture and instill fear.

If this 1% believes that citrate is harmful and recommend foods that are rich in it anyway, it may be an attempt to improve our health through the other compounds, yet restrain it so that we don't become a threat to their eliteness (≤1%).

You can find a bunch of material on the killcium thread reporting the superiority of killcium citrate. If you was to drink a citrus juice and had whatever is pairing citrate replaced by killcium, why would it suddenly become an issue?

A great deal of dietary citrate appears to be cleared by the liver:
- "The Primary Sources Of Acidity In The Diet Are Sulfur-containing AAs, Salt, And Phosphoric Acid"

There's even counterevidence for the cancer concern (although stuffing oneself must not be a good idea):
- A Cancer Therapy By Max Gerson - Selected Parts

Stay vigilant, be safe.
 
K

Kayaker

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It's the elite, they don't want us to get to the truth. They blur the picture and instill fear.

If this 1% believes that citrate is harmful and recommend foods that are rich in it anyway, it may be an attempt to improve our health through the other compounds, yet restrain it so that we don't become a threat to their eliteness (≤1%).

You can find a bunch of material on the killcium thread reporting the superiority of killcium citrate. If you was to drink a citrus juice and had whatever is pairing citrate replaced by killcium, why would it suddenly become an issue?

A great deal of dietary citrate appears to be cleared by the liver:
- "The Primary Sources Of Acidity In The Diet Are Sulfur-containing AAs, Salt, And Phosphoric Acid"

There's even counterevidence for the cancer concern (although stuffing oneself must not be a good idea):
- A Cancer Therapy By Max Gerson - Selected Parts

Stay vigilant, be safe.
So dissolving eggshells in orange juice would inactivate the citric acid?
 

Amazoniac

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So dissolving eggshells in orange juice would inactivate the citric acid?
The citrate molecule won't go anywhere, but decreasing the acidity of the solution makes it charged and killcium will be around for pairing. It doesn't matter if you ingested citric acid or citrate salts, it's all citrate after pancreatic alkalinization and absorption.
 

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