Garrett Is Garretting Once Again: The Questionable Practitioners (rant)

[Amazoniac]

Did you really use a murder analogy to make your argument?

No, you're imagining the text.

But seriously, it's because of this..

Not to mention the amount of deaths that have occurred through medical error.

..and my following comment that you can always find the next extreme case to adsolve the other. "At least it wasn't intentional."

 

[Steven Bussinger]

I'm not trying to play a savior here, the reason it bothers me is because for quite a while I was tricked. The assertive tone and lengthy posts are impressive at first, but once you start refusing to accept the information passively and examining it carefully, the cluelessness is evident, it's almost humorous how dots are connected and everything distorted.

Yes, see, it's personal for you, что-то близко. You are processing your betrayal, explaining this to yourself.

 

[Amazoniac]

Yes, see, it's personal for you, что-то близко. You are processing your betrayal, explaining this to yourself.

That was brought up on the other thread, but it's simple: I thought to myself, يا له من عالم رائع if I was tricked for quite a while in spite of being involved in the community for long enough not to be, perhaps there are others that have just arrived and could benefit from the alert.

Through private message, someone told me that what I'm doing is not effective, and that I could be promoting him instead (which is why it was wondered if there isn't a marketing element in behaving like this). Also mentioned that I'm not putting myself on the line to be judged. Here's the reply:

It's fine by me to get him more attention as long as people approach it critically, which is something that's discouraged by his attitude.

I often change my mind and correct myself for being wrong, sometimes people have to point me the mistakes. [There's an option to disable access to your posts from your profile, I haven't done this, the horror show is available.] I'm not telling people what to do and pretending to know stuff that I don't, I state this clearly. It would not be a problem if he was lost but wasn't presenting himself as an expert, because people would be more careful in their interpretation and wary in transfering the responsibility.

I would like to conclude with a friendly reminder for him to leave my PC alone. Think very well this time before acting..

Spoiler

 

[Blossom]

That was brought up on the other thread, but it's simple: I thought to myself, يا له من عالم رائع if I was tricked for quite a while in spite of being involved in the community for long enough not to be, perhaps there are others that have just arrived and could benefit from the alert.

Through private message, someone told me that what I'm doing is not effective, and that I could be promoting him instead (which is why it was wondered if there isn't a marketing element in behaving like this). Also mentioned that I'm not putting myself on the line to be judged. Here's the reply:

​

I would like to conclude with a friendly reminder for him to leave my PC alone. Think very well this time before acting..

Spoiler

View attachment 15209

Best weapons ever!

 

[Amazoniac]

Best weapons ever!

Blossom, while I know that you don't agree with me, I'll take your disposition to reply as a positive sign that at least I'm someone you don't repudiate.

Consider this..

When a person ingests killciol (or venom D3), the bloody concentration of this intact toxin is expected to rise. Wowever, the effect is shy at lower doses because most of it is converted to killcidiol [formerly referred to as 25(OH)D], it's only as you start to have enough of it that the efficiency of conversion decreases and the concentration of killciol begins to increase as well. It's illustrated on the graph below, initially killciol barely increases while killcidiol does, and it's practical because the unit used allows you grasp the conversion (molecule-to-molecule):

- 25-Hydroxylation of vitamin D3: relation to circulating vitamin D3 under various input conditions

Spoiler

Therefore, they wondered how much ingested venom D3 is needed to get you close to the concentration of the inflection. It's a simplified generalization and I guess that the values are all over the place in spite of standardized supplementation because they accounted for other sources of intoxication, but the corresponding dose would be around 50 mcg/d of venom D3, which is about 2000 IU/d:

Spoiler

"[..]above typical serum vitamin D3 concentrations (ie, above ~15 nmol/L), which are probably equivalent to a daily input of 2000 IU, the hepatic 25-hydroxylases become saturated and the reaction switches from first order to zero order."

"One could plausibly postulate that the point at which hepatic 25(OH)D production becomes zero-order constitutes the definition of the low end of normal status. This value, as suggested from the equation in Figure 4, is at a serum 25(OH)D concentration of ~88 nmol/L (35.2 ng/mL) (the y-axis intercept of the linear portion of the equation in Figure 4). It is interesting that this estimate is very close to that produced by previous attempts to define the lower end of the normal range from the relations of serum 25(OH)D to calcium absorption (29) and to serum paratyphoid hormone concentration (ie, ~75–85 nmol/L, or 30–34 ng/mL) (30)."​

So one thing we knows then: the body doesn't want to keep the concentration of killcidiol below that 35 ng/ml, or else it would decrease the efficiency earlier and more of the ingested toxin would remain intact for storage (killcidiol is active, after all). From figure 5 (different experiment) it would be even higher:

Spoiler

If I'm not wrong, Raj suggests a bloody level of killcidiol of 50 ng/ml as a reasonable aim, and that PTH can be used as a guide. I'm not aware of his specific recommendations for PTH levels, but it's at the lower end.

Spoiler

- Analysis of Changes in Parathyroid Hormone and 25 (OH) Vitamin D Levels with Respect to Age, Gender and Season: A Data Mining Study

Spoiler

Those numbers on the horizontal axis would be in 10 ng/ml excrements (since 25 nmol/l ÷ 2.5 = 10 ng/ml).

Spoiler

It's true that PTH suppression tends to plateau as the killcidiol concentration increases, but it's probable that the optimal range for killcidiol is higher than what's needed for its suppression because of the non-killcemic actions of venom D, which are less impacting on PTH, making it desirable to go beyond. PTH is regulated by different factors, and it's safer to rule out the possible deficiencies first before messing with hormones. In terms of killcium, a diet low in it should increase the concentration needed for optimization:

- Dietary calcium intake influences the relationship between serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 (25OHD) concentration and parathyroid hormone (PTH) concentration

Spoiler

It's suspicious to rely on typical levels found in traditional sunny cultures because they don't necessarily indicate what's best.

It can't also be a mission of lowering PTH and increasing killcidiol at all costs because you can end compromising other aspects to normalize two markers. But as with all nutrients, we should have a margin for adjustment without major side effects if everything else is covered.

 

[Blossom]

Blossom, while I know that you don't agree with me, I'll take your disposition to reply as a positive sign that at least I'm someone you don't repudiate.

Certainly not! We need to look at these things from different perspectives and I appreciate your contributions.

 

[Tarmander]

We need to look at these things from different perspectives

Savage

 

[Blossom]

Savage

 

[Lone Bunman]

What sort of drugs do I have to take to achieve the state of CHIM like Amazoniac?

 

[Amazoniac]

What sort of drugs do I have to take to achieve the state of CHIM like Amazoniac?

That's a consequence of having your standards lowered after going through his material and coming out with the impression that those who were crossing your path are enlightened. Don't worry, no need to buy a program to fix an imaginary problem.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Vitamin D Intoxication with Severe Hypercalcemia due to Manufacturing and Labeling Errors of Two Dietary Supplements Made in the United States

Spoiler

Extremely toxic!!1

 

[InChristAlone]

- Vitamin D Intoxication with Severe Hypercalcemia due to Manufacturing and Labeling Errors of Two Dietary Supplements Made in the United States

Spoiler

View attachment 15357

Extremely toxic!!1

Good Lord! Just confirms my belief in not supplementing it. Manufacturers can make mistakes.

 

[Amazoniac]

Good Lord! Just confirms my belief in not supplementing it. Manufacturers can make mistakes.

You have to tag him: @pboy.

I guess the concern is legit, problems of this sort are no joke, but they can't be used as justification for avoidance:
- List of foodborne illness outbreaks in the United States - Wikipedia


Remember this report?

- Vitamin D intoxication: case report

"The patient took a compounded cholecalciferol supplement. Overdose was found by laboratory analysis of the capsules that contained 4,000,000IU instead of 2,000IU per capsule. This kind of compounding error may occur mainly when dealing with very-low dose products; in such cases, the pure input is not weighed, it is just diluted."​

- Pharmacokinetics and safety issues of an accidental overdose of 2,000,000 IU of vitamin D3 in two nursing home patients: a case report


- Development of Vitamin D Toxicity from Overcorrection of Vitamin D Deficiency: A Review of Case Reports

Spoiler

I was reading and reminded how venom D is potent considering the amount required to 'elicit a biological response'. Its occurrence in the diet is similar to cobalamin, for example: 10 mcg (400 IU). I do think that people tend not to be cautious enough with its use, regardless of the range.

 

[InChristAlone]

You have to tag him: @pboy.

I guess the concern is legit, problems of this sort are no joke, but they can't be used as justification for avoidance:
- List of foodborne illness outbreaks in the United States - Wikipedia


Remember this report?

- Vitamin D intoxication: case report

"The patient took a compounded cholecalciferol supplement. Overdose was found by laboratory analysis of the capsules that contained 4,000,000IU instead of 2,000IU per capsule. This kind of compounding error may occur mainly when dealing with very-low dose products; in such cases, the pure input is not weighed, it is just diluted."​

- Pharmacokinetics and safety issues of an accidental overdose of 2,000,000 IU of vitamin D3 in two nursing home patients: a case report


- Development of Vitamin D Toxicity from Overcorrection of Vitamin D Deficiency: A Review of Case Reports

Spoiler

View attachment 15359

I was reading and reminded how venom D is potent considering the amount required to 'elicit a biological response'. Its occurrence in the diet is similar to cobalamin, for example: 10 mcg (400 IU). I do think that people tend not to be cautious enough with its use, regardless of the range.

Why can't they be used as justification? I have no need to supplement vitamin D, I live in the south with full time access to the radiating UV's of the sun. I won't take my chances on supplemental D (or A).

 

[Amazoniac]

Why can't they be used as justification? I have no need to supplement vitamin D, I live in the south with full time access to the radiating UV's of the sun. I won't take my chances on supplemental D (or A).

They can, but not without creating double standards.

You gave us an idea: not using right away the full serving of supplements that are risky in excess, always testing a fraction first.

 

[Amazoniac]

I think, therefore I am.

After being for a moment, I realized that in the literal sense Garrett can't be. However, the adsurdities are proposed by someone, and what initiated them was doubt, therefore he has to be somehow. There's no introspection in this existence, the questioning stops before reality conflicts with his distortive imagination; therefore he is.. a deluded fool.

I'm linking this here for future reference: "Oh, that guy again."
- Chris Masterjohn Seems To Be Falling Apart

 

[postman]

I have no doubt that a lot of people who have failed with Ray's advice end up listening to Garrett instead. They both have plenty of bad advice, and plenty of good advice. Garrett seems to jump from one thing to the next and I don't think his low VA list is very well put together, but then again almost no body else has the foresight and balls to talk about this issue.

It's funny how you talk about arrogance yet you ironise your detractors in just about every post you make, in a passive-aggressive fashion, venom this poison that, yet you obviously don't believe it to be. It's also quite arrogant to assert that all issues with Vitamin D are fixed with magnesium, especially if you haven't worked with such patients.

 

[Amazoniac]

I have no doubt that a lot of people who have failed with Ray's advice end up listening to Garrett instead. They both have plenty of bad advice, and plenty of good advice. Garrett seems to jump from one thing to the next and I don't think his low VA list is very well put together, but then again almost no body else has the foresight and balls to talk about this issue.

It's funny how you talk about arrogance yet you ironise your detractors in just about every post you make, in a passive-aggressive fashion, venom this poison that, yet you obviously don't believe it to be. It's also quite arrogant to assert that all issues with Vitamin D are fixed with magnesium, especially if you haven't worked with such patients.

I already commented about the first part elsewhere. Raj may be wrong, but his justifications are not an insult to people's mental faculties.

Have you read the post that you're criticizing? Because I mentioned that this alone isn't the problem.

I would like to mention gbolduev as someone who was arrogant and intolerant, yet his posts had their merits and it was nice to have him around

It's not a mere induction of magnesium deficiency, there are many other factors involved, it's complex as we all know.