Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Deficiency: The "Great Imitator" Of Other Illnesses

[milkboi]

How much fat is needed with Benfo to ensure optimal absorption?

 

[Hildy]

Benfotiamine compared to Thiamine HCl is like night and day. Better be ready with the carbs if you're gonna dip into Benfoland. Amazing sugar oxidation potential. Almost impossible for me to stay ahead of the sugar needs but I am giving it my all to see where it goes. Loading up on carbs before hand and also after is a necessity for myself. I also notice magnesium and potassium are called on heavily.

I know someone personally with extreme beriberi(wet beriberi and dry beriberi) and they started on Benfotiamine today, hoping for the best. Beriberi was diagnosed by the hospital but they said there is nothing they can do. Can you freaking believe it? Scandalous.

Ok just read that BeriBeri article by Dr. Lonsdale. If Beriberi is a disease that developes from widespread "ingestion of sugar", why do you need to up your carbs if you are taking the Benfotiamine?

 

[milkboi]

Ok just read that BeriBeri article by Dr. Lonsdale. If Beriberi is a disease that developes from widespread "ingestion of sugar", why do you need to up your carbs if you are taking the Benfotiamine?

You need Thiamine to oxidize sugar. If your intake is low and you eat carbs you will get deficient. Benfotiamine increases sugar oxidation, which can increase your carbohydrate requirement.

 

[Hildy]

What Haidut said about B1 in this thread (he sounds like the forum expert) sounds reasonable:Vitamin B1 Dosage

I'm going to try the Allithiamine, because according to him, he says it gets into all areas of your body

 

[Hildy]

What Haidut said about B1 in this thread (he sounds like the forum expert) sounds reasonable:Vitamin B1 Dosage

I'm going to try the Allithiamine, because according to him, he says it gets into all areas of your body

Also he said the regular oral Thiamine absorbs well......so guess it's a choice with what you want to use for a specific purpose. He says he takes it 3 X a day at 1500 mg but not sure if he meant the Alli or just regular Thiamine

 

[Tarmander]

I tried 50mg of Alli today. Can't say I have noticed much of a difference yet other then some heightened frustration.

You are likely losing the ability to burn fats.

Your telling me I have arrived in the Peat utopia from a couple weeks of benfo at around 100mg?

 

[redsun]

I tried 50mg of Alli today. Can't say I have noticed much of a difference yet other then some heightened frustration.



Your telling me I have arrived in the Peat utopia from a couple weeks of benfo at around 100mg?

If benfotiamine was all you were taking at 100mg a day all the B1 was using up the other Bs as all the B vitamins play a role in energy production. The more initial sparks you light(this is what B1 is, a spark) the more of the other vitamins you need by definition to keep the fuel burning. Not burning fat because you lack or have less of the essential vitamins to do it is bad news.

Of course you will always burn fat and sugar simultaneously, as some tissues burn fat preferentially that is just how it is, you don't want to handicap your ability to burn fats, unless you want fat to keep piling on slowly but surely. Of course maybe I'm wrong, I don't know everything, but I am pretty confident that isolated Bs will always cause more energy production problems then it solves.

 

[Tarmander]

If benfotiamine was all you were taking at 100mg a day all the B1 was using up the other Bs as all the B vitamins play a role in energy production. The more initial sparks you light(this is what B1 is, a spark) the more of the other vitamins you need by definition to keep the fuel burning. Not burning fat because you lack or have less of the essential vitamins to do it is bad news.

Of course you will always burn fat and sugar simultaneously, as some tissues burn fat preferentially that is just how it is, you don't want to handicap your ability to burn fats, unless you want fat to keep piling on slowly but surely. Of course maybe I'm wrong, I don't know everything, but I am pretty confident that isolated Bs will always cause more energy production problems then it solves.

Well it should be easy to test right? Take some B2 and see if the weight drops.

I can tell you though, I have messed around with B2 quite a bit and I usually get a nice muscle pump, but no weight loss from it.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Benfotiamine compared to Thiamine HCl is like night and day. Better be ready with the carbs if you're gonna dip into Benfoland. Amazing sugar oxidation potential. Almost impossible for me to stay ahead of the sugar needs but I am giving it my all to see where it goes. Loading up on carbs before hand and also after is a necessity for myself. I also notice magnesium and potassium are called on heavily.

I know someone personally with extreme beriberi(wet beriberi and dry beriberi) and they started on Benfotiamine today, hoping for the best. Beriberi was diagnosed by the hospital but they said there is nothing they can do. Can you freaking believe it? Scandalous.

Nice Charlie!

I wish I had the time and the appetite to eat all the carbs a daily benfo regimen requires. Need more potatoes and OJ.

 

[redsun]

Well it should be easy to test right? Take some B2 and see if the weight drops.

I can tell you though, I have messed around with B2 quite a bit and I usually get a nice muscle pump, but no weight loss from it.

Yeh because it breaks down noradrenaline a lot by increasing MAO-A which will dilate the veins instead of vasoconstriction which is what noradrenaline does. I also get my veins popping out 24/7 how they used to when I was younger taking B2. Its great for that.

 

[charlie]

Nice Charlie!

I wish I had the time and the appetite to eat all the carbs a daily benfo regimen requires. Need more potatoes and OJ.

I think starting with HCl might be optimal to get things going, then slowly bring in the fat soluble B1's. Easing into it seems prudent. Starting with a full dose of fat soluble B1 is probably unwise. Dr. Lonsdale felt it should be started low and increased slowly too.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

I think starting with HCl might be optimal to get things going, then slowly bring in the fat soluble B1's. Easing into it seems prudent. Starting with a full dose of fat soluble B1 is probably unwise. Dr. Lonsdale felt it should be started low and increased slowly too.

I use a quarter, half, or full capsule depending on the amount of carbs I'm eating. And I stopped taking Benfo two days in a row because I don't want to lose too much weight.

 

[LLight]

OCT1 is a high-capacity thiamine transporter that regulates hepatic steatosis and is a target of metformin (OCT1 is a high-capacity thiamine transporter that regulates hepatic steatosis and is a target of metformin)

"We next demonstrate that OCT1 is a major hepatic transporter for thiamine, vitamin B1, and that Oct1 deficiency results in reduced hepatic levels of thiamine and its active metabolite, thiamine pyrophosphate (TPP). In parallel experiments, we show that dietary restriction of thiamine decreases hepatic steatosis, while increasing phosphorylation of AMPK and ACC. These studies suggest that the mechanism by which Oct1 deficiency modulates hepatic steatosis is related to decreased levels of thiamine and TPP in the liver, resulting in a change in hepatic energy status."

Maybe the supplemented thiamine remains in the liver, while its fate should be elsewhere.

Or it might not have anything to do with your weight gains, but I find that interesting nonetheless.

PS: I received my Allithiamine supplement. I tried one 50mg friday night and slept through the night without having to go to the bathroom. Was also the case saturday night.

 

[Tarmander]

Allithiamine is kind of kicking my butt. 50mg per day for the last few days. Have only had 6 hours of sleep per night the last few nights, usually divided up into 3 hour chunks. Luckily work has been slow and I have been able to nap a bit during the day. But I think I will take a break for awhile, or go back to benfo.

Positives are pretty amazing. Body feels really different. There is a suppleness, a flexibility that was there when I was younger but forgot about. All water weight is gone, much more defined in the legs and arms. I feel skinny. It is hard to describe but my stomach and body feel lithe and thin.

Pretty cool but the sleep aspect is undermining it all.

 

[Orion]

Allithiamine is kind of kicking my butt. 50mg per day for the last few days. Have only had 6 hours of sleep per night the last few nights, usually divided up into 3 hour chunks. Luckily work has been slow and I have been able to nap a bit during the day. But I think I will take a break for awhile, or go back to benfo.

Positives are pretty amazing. Body feels really different. There is a suppleness, a flexibility that was there when I was younger but forgot about. All water weight is gone, much more defined in the legs and arms. I feel skinny. It is hard to describe but my stomach and body feel lithe and thin.

Pretty cool but the sleep aspect is undermining it all.

Same I have stopped testing 50mg per day as well, it revs up metabolism, like being on lots of T3, sleep deteriorates and big stress response, cold hands/feets, night sweats, can't eat enough to keep up. It took me about 5 days to get back to baseline after stopping. First 2 days testing felt great, good mood, deep sleep, warm all over, but then it opens the flood gates. Probably will test again soon, but smaller doses and in greater intervals.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Allithiamine is kind of kicking my butt. 50mg per day for the last few days. Have only had 6 hours of sleep per night the last few nights, usually divided up into 3 hour chunks. Luckily work has been slow and I have been able to nap a bit during the day. But I think I will take a break for awhile, or go back to benfo.

Positives are pretty amazing. Body feels really different. There is a suppleness, a flexibility that was there when I was younger but forgot about. All water weight is gone, much more defined in the legs and arms. I feel skinny. It is hard to describe but my stomach and body feel lithe and thin.

Pretty cool but the sleep aspect is undermining it all.

No doubt lactic acid has been greatly reduced and most glycogen has been burnt; however, do you also feel like nitric oxide has been lowered? The way you describe having lost water weight, feeling skinny, and noticing a difference in/on your stomach is very much how I feel from benfotiamine, gamma tocopherol, and methylene blue. I find myself overeating carbs and salt to compensate for the lack of bloat and pump that had been a feature of my life for years.

 

[charlie]

Interesting post by @Ihor

Have you tried to compensate for this low sugar reaction with a large dose of vitamin C? I also often have such a reaction to vitamins B, magnesium, a thyroid supplement and other things that seem to trigger glucose oxidation, but after some time all these supplements are followed by the same reaction with the same symptom that interrupts the process. I suppose one of the most probable reasons is the stage of oxidative stress in the Krebs cycle or the appearance of prooxidants due to other processes, in which the body cannot compensate for the destructive effect of these prooxidants, due to impaired synthesis of its own antioxidant system. While experimenting with things, I noticed that one of the only things that interrupts this stress for me and gives clarity of consciousness is vitamin C.

 

[Tarmander]

Interesting post by @Ihor

Yeah I am going to do a meyer's cocktail later today, 20g of vitamin C. Usually a nice way to reset things.

 

[Tarmander]

Same I have stopped testing 50mg per day as well, it revs up metabolism, like being on lots of T3, sleep deteriorates and big stress response, cold hands/feets, night sweats, can't eat enough to keep up. It took me about 5 days to get back to baseline after stopping. First 2 days testing felt great, good mood, deep sleep, warm all over, but then it opens the flood gates. Probably will test again soon, but smaller doses and in greater intervals.

So basically back to the old Peat problem...we can push on metabolism but sustaining it is the issue. Amazing how many years it took for us to figure out that this is the order of things. Fuel ---> increased Metabolism...not the other way around which we all tried so hard to make work. I felt great the first couple days as well, and then downhill. Thankfully I did not get the adrenal reaction you described but I did lose a bit of my hair line.

No doubt lactic acid has been greatly reduced and most glycogen has been burnt; however, do you also feel like nitric oxide has been lowered? The way you describe having lost water weight, feeling skinny, and noticing a difference in/on your stomach is very much how I feel from benfotiamine, gamma tocopherol, and methylene blue. I find myself overeating carbs and salt to compensate for the lack of bloat and pump that had been a feature of my life for years.

This sounds accurate. No lactic acid and low glycogen.

 

[Tarmander]

Has anyone tried Allicin? I bought some allimax and noticed better skin, calmer gut, without some of the insomnia from Allithiamine. Might be worth trying