Zinc Supplements - Clarification On Ray's Comment

[Zpol]

No your dr will not do or be familiar with organic acid test. Your ND should be well versed in how to interpret.

Totally getting this one asap. The hair test too.

From your vegan past; your copper levels make total sense. You would also have much PUFAs to get rid off and estrogens to detox.

Wish I knew then what I know now.

You want fresh, nothing packed, tinned or processed. Processed foods are a vehicle for these organisms.

I've tried to get fresh meat around here, no one sells it at the farmers market, and the nearest co-op is 2 hours away and even they have to process and package their meat. I think it's because of government regulations on selling raw meat. It's even illeagal here to sell raw milk. Im at a loss here. Can't even eat the fish from the nearby lake, it's polluted and full of invasive species.
Really sad about this.

Thank you!

 

[Waynish]

Who has tried zinc carnosine?

 

[Amazoniac]

Zinc, Metallothioneins and Longevity: Interrelationships with Nia...: Ingenta Connect

"Taking into account the requirement of the two amino-terminal zinc finger motifs and the recently discovered third zinc-binding domain for PARP-1 activity [21] and the zinc availability in the structure of p53 protein [106], the role of zinc and niacin in the effects of genotoxic agents or in chronic stress conditions, as in ageing, becomes apparent. In this context, the combination of niacin and zinc treatment was reported to be more efficient than niacin alone, in inducing resistance against oxidative DNA damage in peripheral blood lymphocytes exposed to H2O2 [107]. Therefore, although niacin is crucial for NAD+ biosynthesis, many molecular mechanisms related to niacin are zinc-dependent, including PARP-1 and p53. Indeed, for the concepts expressed above for NAD+ and PARP-1 in centenarians, these exceptional individuals display satisfactory zinc ion bioavailability [44]."

"The existence of an interplay between zinc and niacin metabolism was suggested many years ago by the increased urinary N'-methylnicotinamide and N'-methyl-2-pyridone-5-carboxamide following zinc supplementation in alcoholic patients with pellagra [110]. An interrelationship between zinc and niacin may be supported by preliminary recent findings showing zinc supplementation also capable of increasing NAD+ concentrations in vaccinated old people against influenza virus, compared with old subjects undergoing vaccination only (Table 2). This last finding addresses new area of investigations related to the possible modulation of niacin metabolism by zinc. Moreover, taking also into account that niacin may enhance zinc absorption and utilization [111], the combination of zinc and niacin may play a pivotal role in elderly."

"The interrelationship between zinc and selenium has been recently investigated by Maret [85], who showed that in absence of selenium the chemical reaction involved in zinc release by MT is very low. In particular, the zinc/thiolate cluster of MT cannot be sufficiently oxidized by glutathion disulfide. In contrast, the release of zinc from MT occurs very rapidly following the addition of selenium compounds that have the capacity to form a catalytic selenol(ate) [85]. The mechanism of the reaction was suggested to proceed through an activated selenenyl sulphide (R-Se-S-G) intermediate which, in turn, oxidizes the zinc-thiolate cluster of MT to form R-Se-S-MT with the concomitant release of zinc during the oxidation [85,144]. Selenium compounds also catalyze the release of zinc from MT in peroxidation and thiol/disulfide-interchange reactions. In the presence of t-butylhydroperoxide, GPx catalyses MT oxidation with subsequent zinc release [19]. Therefore, the assessment of zinc ion bioavailability, MT and selenium concentrations could represent useful tools for studying the physiology of successful ageing. Indeed, a recent study shows that 84% of the 'healthy' nonagenarians/centenarians display zinc and selenium levels greater than those observed in the average elderly [131]. Moreover, healthy nonagenarians display a major zinc release by MT, good zinc ion availability [41,44] and satisfactory GPx activity [145]. These findings suggest that adequate zinc and selenium levels in the body are crucial in order to achieve healthy ageing and longevity. In this context, Girodon et al. [146] determined the effects for a long period (2 years) of daily supplementation with zinc (20 mg) plus selenium (100 mcg) on immunity and the incidence of infections in a large number of institutionalized old people over 65 yrs. The main results of the study were: 1) selenium deficient patients decreased from about 80% to 5-10% in the selenium supplemented group after 6 months of supplementation compared with the placebo group; 2) antibody titres after influenza vaccination were higher in groups that received trace elements; 3) trace element supplemented patients had an increased chance to remain free from respiratory tract infections compared with the placebo group. These findings suggest that low doses of zinc and selenium provide significant improvement in elderly patients by increasing the humoral response after vaccination and decreased influenza complications (respiratory tract infections), thus possibly contributing to the achievement of an extended health span."

 

[Bart1]

Does having white spots on nails imply a zinc deficiency?

 

[tara]

I'd heard that. I've since heard that other minerals can also be relevant, especially magnesium, and maybe calcium.
I've had a lot of them. When I supplement magnesium and calcium daily, and zinc at least weekly (small dose), I seem to be able to clear them. I don't think Zn alone did it, and less regular Mg didn't do it either.

 

[Bart1]

I'd heard that. I've since heard that other minerals can also be relevant, especially magnesium, and maybe calcium.
I've had a lot of them. When I supplement magnesium and calcium daily, and zinc at least weekly (small dose), I seem to be able to clear them. I don't think Zn alone did it, and less regular Mg didn't do it either.

Thanks Tara, how do you supplement withcalcium and magnesium. Isn’t a diet with cheese egg and milk enough? Magnesium oil and regular epsom salt baths?

 

[tara]

Milk and cheese don't agree with me.
It would be better to get enough zinc from food. The best food source is oysters. I eat beef and lamb regularly, but oysters are less accessible.
I eat and drink the broth from greens, and I eat fruit.
These are observations for me personally. The food was not enough for me.
I supplement calcium carbonate (oyster shell powder) and magnesium carbonate, both for about 400mg Ca/Mg. Less than 20 mg picolinate (may not be best version)/week seemed to keep spots off nails in combo with the Mg and Ca.

 

[tara]

Magnesium oil and regular epsom salt baths?

+ Magnesium oil/Mg chloride topically extra for occasional acute need.

 

[Bart1]

Milk and cheese don't agree with me.
It would be better to get enough zinc from food. The best food source is oysters. I eat beef and lamb regularly, but oysters are less accessible.
I eat and drink the broth from greens, and I eat fruit.
These are observations for me personally. The food was not enough for me.
I supplement calcium carbonate (oyster shell powder) and magnesium carbonate, both for about 400mg Ca/Mg. Less than 20 mg picolinate (may not be best version)/week seemed to keep spots off nails in combo with the Mg and Ca.

In the past I have taken zinc together with copper (jarrow formulas) daily and this has worked well to get rid of the spots and more solud nails and hair. I’m a bit hesitant now because I read on the forum about the dangers of zinc supplements. I thought I read somewhere that low dose zinc and selenium enhance each others uptake. But you don’t supplement selenium?

 

[tara]

But you don’t supplement selenium?

I don't currently, but I have wondered if I should. Low selenium soils. I do eat fish or shellfish at least once or twice a week, and occasional seaweed.

 

[Dave Clark]

Who has tried zinc carnosine?

I have used it, and I do rotate it in every now in then, mostly for stomach issues that it is great for, however, I don't believe this is a good form for acquiring whole body zinc sufficiency, since the zinc in it gets tied up in the stomach, from what I have read.

 

[Amazoniac]

It slammed shut when I read this:

Zinc and gastrointestinal disease

"[..]the body has no cell/tissue zinc stores (unlike, e.g., iron or calcium) therefore its daily zinc needs are heavily dependent on satisfactory daily zinc intake and at least short-term states of zinc deficiency could be quite likely[20]."​

And then I had to find more information about it..

Zinc in Human Biology (978-1-4471-3879-2) - Colin F. Mills

Spoiler

 

[Nighteyes]

It slammed shut when I read this:

Zinc and gastrointestinal disease

"[..]the body has no cell/tissue zinc stores (unlike, e.g., iron or calcium) therefore its daily zinc needs are heavily dependent on satisfactory daily zinc intake and at least short-term states of zinc deficiency could be quite likely[20]."​

And then I had to find more information about it..

Zinc in Human Biology (978-1-4471-3879-2) - Colin F. Mills

Spoiler

View attachment 11358

View attachment 11359

This was very interesting - thank you! Really stück a cord with me. A close member of the family has been vegetarian and had very low intake of zinc for a long time. She is extremely thin and developing osteoporosis.. not saying it is causative but interesting nontheless. She also chronically undereats as it “doesnt digest well when she eats more”

 

[Astolfo]

Hi. I couldn’t read the all topic, excuse me for my English..

Can I take zinc sulfate for a while? For about 1 month.

I only have access to zinc picolinate(solgar) other than sulfate. Oysters are very expensive in my country so I have no chance other than these two.

Also, how many miligram would be fine for me(16 yo)?

 

[Amazoniac]

- Chromium picolinate, zinc picolinate and zinc picolinate dihydrate added for nutritional purposes in food supplements | EFSA

"One gram of zinc picolinate provides 0.21 gram zinc and 0.79 gram picolinic acid[, or about 40 mg of picolinate for every 10 mg of zinc]."

"Picolinic acid, a pyridine compound structurally similar to nicotinic acid, is not typically found in foods. However, it is a metabolite of tryptophan and is synthesized in vivo via the kynurenine pathway, thus occurring naturally in the body (Reading and Wecker, 1996). The estimated urinary output of picolinate by adults is 14 mg/day (Evans, 1993)."

"Picolinic acid is an endogenous metabolite of tryptophan and has a high-affinity metal-binding capacity (IOM, 2001). Cations readily complex with picolinate in the small intestine. The pancreas secretes picolinic acid into the small intestine, with increasing levels being excreted with increasing levels of pyridoxine supplementation (Evans and Johnson, 1981; Evans, 1983). Previous studies have identified picolinic acid in pancreas preparations used as digestive aids in pancreatic insufficiency (PDR, 2004). Picolinic acid has a high metal binding affinity (FNB, 2001), and like citric acid, has been reported to be a zinc-binding ligand influencing intestinal zinc absorption (Evans, 1980; Evans and Johnson, 1980b, Evans and Johnson, 1981; Hurley and Lönnerdal, 1980; Seal and Heaton, 1985; Seal, 1988; Roth and Kirchgessner, 1983; Johnson et al., 1988; Johnson and Evans, 1982; Evans, 1992). It has been stated that at a low pH in the stomach (pH 1-2), 95-100% of the ingested amount of zinc (di)picolinate would still be complexed, either as zinc monopicolinate or zinc (di-)picolinate."

"The bioavailability of zinc in the diet is dependent upon a number of factors. Dietary zinc is readily available for absorption at gastric pH (i.e. low pH). At higher pH values zinc tends to bind to organic components such as low molecular weight ligands (e.g. amino acids or some organic acids) that may potentially increase the solubility of zinc and facilitate its absorption, or alternatively zinc may form poorly soluble complexes with organic substances that may reduce absorption (EVM, 2003)."

"The bioavailability of zinc is affected by the availability of picolinic acid, as a metal chelating agent, to bind to zinc in the small intestine aiding the absorption of metal cations (e.g. zinc, copper, iron) (IOM, 2001). Mechanisms of zinc absorption mediated by endogenous picolinic acid have been proposed. During the metabolism of tryptophan in the exocrine cells of the pancreas, picolinic acid is produced and excreted into the lumen of the intestine. In the lumen, picolinic acid forms a complex with zinc that facilitates the passage of zinc through the luminal membrane, across the absorptive cell and through the basolateral membrane of the cell. Alternatively, at the basolateral membrane, receptor ligands may coordinate zinc which is then transferred to transferrin. In humans and animals consuming a diet that contains physiological levels of zinc, the quantity of zinc transported across the absorptive cells is directly related to the availability of picolinic acid. The availability of picolinic acid depends upon the level of dietary tryptophan, pyridoxine and cations that compete with zinc for coordination with picolinic acid. Inborn errors of metabolism that affect the conversion of tryptophan to picolinic acid also cause impaired zinc absorption (Evans, 1980)."

"Various studies reported a somewhat increased bioavailability of zinc from zinc picolinate than from other zinc sources, reflected in higher serum concentrations and/or urinary excretion (Evans, 1980; Evans and Johnson, 1981; Evans and Johnson, 1985b; Hurley and Lönnerdal, 1980; Johnson et al., 1988; Johnson and Evans, 1982; Roth and Kirchgessner, 1983; Seal, 1988; Seal and Heaton, 1985). However, other investigators reported that picolinic acid had no effect on zinc absorption (Flagstad, 1981; Hill et al., 1986; Ivan and Lammand, 1981; Luh and Song, 1988; Oestreicher and Cousins, 1982; Rebello et al., 1982), and in some cases, slightly reduced zinc absorption due to picolinate has also been reported (Hill et al., 1987b,c; Turnbull et al., 1990)."​

 

[Amazoniac]

They're brief, worth reading:

- The Role of Picolinic Acid in Zinc Metabolism
- The Role of Picolinic Acid in Metal Metabolism
- Picolinic Acid in the Treatment of Disorders Requiring Zinc Supplementation

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Does having white spots on nails imply a zinc deficiency?

White Spots (Leukonychia)causes:

Zinc deficiency is a likely occurence,10-15mg of Zinc-sulfate,2-3 times a day on an empty stomach preferably is good.
mixed with copper is Jarrows Zinc Balance.
Chris Masterjohn believes that Picolinate decreases actual Zinc-retention by increasing urinary output of it with zinc
complexed.I also read a paper that Picolinate was used because of a false interpretation of the binding ligand of zinc
in Human Breastmilk by means of chromatography.it meant citrate,not picolinate,but was confused by apparent
similarity,on a mechanical readout,between these too.
I was onboard the Picolinate train,decided but for zinc-sulfate.l-optizinc-zinc behaves like a sulfate clinically,
but with slightly less irritation.

• Arsenic poisoning
• Lead poisoning
• Pneumonia
• Heart disease
• Renal failure
• Ill health
• Hypoalbuminemia
• Vitamin deficiency
• Ulcerative colitis
• Hepatic cirrhosis
• Psychogenic stresses
• Onychophagia
• Wildlife pet ownership (i.e. parrots that nip the fingers)
• Occupational trauma
• Zinc deficiency
• Protein deficiency
• Psoriasis as well as eczema
• Iron deficiency[15]

 

[Bart1]

White Spots (Leukonychia)causes:

Zinc deficiency is a likely occurence,10-15mg of Zinc-sulfate,2-3 times a day on an empty stomach preferably is good.
mixed with copper is Jarrows Zinc Balance.
Chris Masterjohn believes that Picolinate decreases actual Zinc-retention by increasing urinary output of it with zinc
complexed.I also read a paper that Picolinate was used because of a false interpretation of the binding ligand of zinc
in Human Breastmilk by means of chromatography.it meant citrate,not picolinate,but was confused by apparent
similarity,on a mechanical readout,between these too.
I was onboard the Picolinate train,decided but for zinc-sulfate.l-optizinc-zinc behaves like a sulfate clinically,
but with slightly less irritation.

• Arsenic poisoning
• Lead poisoning
• Pneumonia
• Heart disease
• Renal failure
• Ill health
• Hypoalbuminemia
• Vitamin deficiency
• Ulcerative colitis
• Hepatic cirrhosis
• Psychogenic stresses
• Onychophagia
• Wildlife pet ownership (i.e. parrots that nip the fingers)
• Occupational trauma
• Zinc deficiency
• Protein deficiency
• Psoriasis as well as eczema
• Iron deficiency[15]

Thanks!

 

[Dave Clark]

For anyone interested in a whole food zinc supplement, here are two:

Zinc Gold

SHOP: Grown By Nature

They may have better absorption than the chelates, but I am sure there is not much if any science to back it up. At least you don't have to read later that the chelated form you are using has some negative issues. Of course, these aren't cheap, but might be nice to have around when you know you arent eating properly.

 

[boris]

Mushrooms, egg yolk, chocolate as well, not sure how much though.

So would a daily egg and a small piece of chocolate cover basic zinc needs? What about meat broth bone broth from ruminants, would that have sufficient zinc or would you need to add some fresh red meat?