Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium

Amazoniac

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I was going to compare the minerals present in milch to those in eggshell for an idea of what you could miss when it's supplemented. I tried to find a review to avoid gross mistakes when relying on a single experiment, but what a mess. Sometimes the values don't coincide; their test wasn't comprehensive; detection limitations that make it worthless; variations depending on location, season, phase, ending up with ranges that are too loose; working with different units (requiring density adjustment, etc), or a great deal of imprecision if they standardized and had to round; it went as far as including a made-up element in one of them*, which I first thought it was Germanium to follow the alphabetical order of the list, but the concentration was high and iodine wasn't there, they added it as J for Jod: difficult to find an explanation for this one considering that it's a list using international abbreviations for elements of the periodic table (curiously there's no J mineral), they repeated on the next page and had to go through it multiple times when adding values; 'Yttrium' row is blank, it was included for no reason.

Anyway, what I was planning to do is take averages for milchs and eggshells and match them based on the typical calcium content per liter of cow's milk (about 1200 mg). It would be possible to grasp significant differences.

- Element and Trace Element Contents of Cow Milk Sample in Western Romanian Carpathians and Alps Areas*
- The Content of Microelements and Trace Elements in Raw Milk from Cows in the Silesian Region
- Mineral, amino acid, and hormonal composition of chicken eggshell powder and the evaluation of its use in human nutrition

Tapping out..
 
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tara

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Amazoniac

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Noooooo....
I had to wonder: what Garrett, the 'nutrition detective', would do? Tapping out is not part of his vocabulary and he doesn't stop before arriving at the truth.

There's this brazilian publication, my spanish is not very good, but fortunately it's understandable:

- Biological evaluation of calcium from chicken eggshell (Gallus Gallus, L.) powder in healthy and induced osteoporotic female rats (Rattus norvegicus, Wistar) (dissertation by Julie dos Santos Vilar)

upload_2019-9-27_8-29-3.png

- Periodic table - Wikipedia

It can vary a lot:

upload_2019-9-27_8-29-13.png

*Present study.
**Others.

Here's what it was doned afterwards:
- Rows for ordered elements; one column for eggshells, another for the milch averages (from the questionable link of the previous post) already divided by 1030 (density) and multiplied by 100 (to match with eggshells).
- Divided all eggshell values by its calcium content (30263 mg/100 g, it's on the image), then multiplied them by 1200 (could've been other value, it wouldn't make a difference later, but 1200 was used for the reason mentioned before and in case it was decided to do something else with it).
- Same: divided all milch values by its calcium content (happened to be about 120 mg/100 g), then multiplied them by 1200.
- Now that they was matching based on calcium instead of weight, the content of each element in milch was defined as 100%.
- Eggshell content of each element was transformed in relation to this milch 100% baseline.

upload_2019-9-27_8-30-39.png


I haven't verified, so there might be errors on top of those expected.
If it was accurate, it could be interpreted as the mineral variation if you were to replace all your calcium obtained from milk with eggshells.

Some minerals were included based on the limit of detection, not on actual values, so it'sn't reliable at all. It can be a major contributor to the differences shown. However, it was reassuring to spot high Strontium, probably because it would be challenging to mask the difference.

A bunch of them had to be excluded because there wasn't a corresponding value on the other source. If you are able to find a comprehensive analysis of milch or more precise figures that justifies updating the file, let me know.
Would jod=iodine fit?
Jod and fit: I think this is an opportunity for Jodelle's husband to synthesize a J element, Jodellium, similar to the existing Janellium. It wouldn't last much, disappearing in less than a second, but the tribute would, it's better than having a generic star named after her.

There's Ta (for Tantalum [?]), but no plain T either. Demand your beloved guru a Tarium (T) to discredit Thorium (Th) and protest until it makes to the table.
 
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Amazoniac

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- The Bioavailability of Dietary Calcium

"Absorbability, or the availability of calcium for absorption by the intestines, is often used as a synonym for bioavailability. It is, however, no more than the first step towards bioavailability. Calcium must be soluble in the acid medium of the stomach before it can be absorbed. Good solubility in water is an advantage but is not absolutely necessary. The intestinal absorption values measured in humans and animals are not always equivalent to, and are generally lower than, calcium absorbability. The potential absorbability of calcium depends on the food, whereas absorption depends also on the absorptive capacity of the intestines, which is affected by physiological factors such as calcium reserves, hormonal regulation or previous dietary calcium supply. The potential absorbability is thus the absorption under the most favorable physiological conditions."

"Bioavailability depends on absorbability and the incorporation of absorbed calcium into bone. Hence, it also depends on the urinary excretion and fecal loss of endogenous calcium. As for intestinal absorption, physiological factors, particularly hormones, play a major role in the incorporation of calcium into bone. However, certain types of food increase the likelihood that absorbed calcium will be incorporated into bone, whereas others result in calcium being mainly excreted in the urine. The effects of small changes in the diet on the net calcium balance have been emphasized by several studies. Thus, certain anions, such as sulfate and chloride, organic ligands (chelators) and excess protein or sodium all increase the loss of calcium in the urine and, thus, hinder its incorporation into bone. Conversely, the incorporation of absorbed calcium into bone is stimulated by phosphorus, but excess phosphorus may also cause undesirable ectopic calcification (outside of the bone)."

"All components of the diet that make calcium soluble or keep it in solution within the ileum should stimulate passive diffusion. Several molecules do this, particularly milk proteins like the phosphopeptides derived from casein [13,14] and amino acids like L-lysine and L-arginine, which form soluble chelates with calcium [10]."

"All molecules that increase the osmolarity of the liquid in the ileum are likely to stimulate the passive diffusion of calcium [15], whereas certain amino acids act on the intercellular space causing contraction of the cytoskeleton [11]."

"The main factors affecting the efficiency of calcium storage in bone are not dietary; they are physiological, related to growth, pregnancy and lactation, for example. The deposition and resorption of bone are regulated by several hormones (e.g., PTH, calcitonin, calcitriol and estrogens), the actions of which are outside the scope of this review."

"Human adults lose approximately 0.3% of their bone mass each year; this means that their calcium balance is negative and they lose about 10 mg of calcium each day. This loss of bone mass may be ten times greater in post-menopausal women."

"A relative excess of phosphate has been thought to increase the fecal excretion of calcium. However, contrary to this widely held view, excess P does not reduce calcium absorption, at least if calcium intake is adequate. All Western-type meals have a Ca/P ratio well below 1, which favors the precipitation of calcium. This does not, however, prevent the normal absorption of calcium. Furthermore, the calcium in calcium phosphate is as well absorbed as the calcium in other inorganic salts, whether eaten with or without lactose [21]."

"Lipids, especially milk fats, are thought by some to form insoluble soaps with calcium, reducing its bioavailability. However, although this chemical reaction is possible, it does not, in practice, interfere with calcium absorption [4]. The dietary soaps are dissociated at the low pH of the stomach and cannot reform until they reach the ileum, which is beyond the main area of calcium absorption. Fecal soaps are formed from free long-chain saturated fatty acids and unabsorbed calcium. The saturated fatty acids in milk and cheese can displace calcium from phosphates in the ileum, forming less soluble soaps which are excreted, but this has no effect on the absorption of ingested calcium [22]."

"Other constituents of food, particularly components of milk, are thought to favor the intestinal absorption of calcium and to keep it in a soluble form until it reaches the distal intestine, where it can be absorbed by unsaturable routes that are independent of vitamin D. The best known are lactose, proteins and phosphopeptides."

"Whey proteins, such as alpha lactalbumin and beta lactoglobulin, also bind calcium. Alpha lactalbumin binds calcium very tightly, making it a true binding protein, like calmodulin. However, despite the sometimes spectacular effects of these proteins and peptides on the solubility of calcium in the intestines in vitro, they have a much less dramatic effect on calcium absorption and retention in vivo [3]."

"[..]lactose, at the concentrations normally found in milk, seems to have no significant effect on calcium absorption in healthy adults on a normal diet [5]. However, any effect of lactose on passive absorption may be masked by active transport, which is generally sufficient if the dietary intake of calcium is moderate and there is no lack of vitamin D. Lactose may be more important if calcium intake is high, especially in babies and the elderly, in whom solubility is a limiting factor and passive absorption is the predominant route [35]."

"Lactase deficiency does not prevent the calcium in milk from being well absorbed [36,41,42]."

"Phosphorus may have a direct effect by increasing the reabsorption of calcium in the distal part of the nephron or an indirect effect by stimulating PTH secretion or by enhancing the uptake of absorbed calcium into bone [47]. The simultaneous absorption of calcium and phosphorus increases the uptake of calcium by bone, thereby decreasing its loss in urine [45]."

"Chronic metabolic acidosis due to excessive intakes of sulfate and chloride anions leads to higher losses of calcium in the urine. The alkalosis resulting from ingestion of bicarbonate or potassium citrate has the opposite effect [55]."

"The main species used [in calcium experiments] are rats, pigs, guinea pigs and primates. The dietary behavior of the animal must be taken into account, including the type of diet and frequency of meals, for example. Pigs are omnivores that eat rapidly two or three meals per day. This similarity to human behavior makes them an ideal model. Rats and guinea pigs eat grain and are continuous nibblers or gnawers without well defined meals."

"The physiological characteristics of the rat also make it an unsuitable model. Its intestine presents high levels of phytase activity enabling it to hydrolyze phytates in food and to absorb calcium down as far as the large intestine. Neither pigs nor humans are able to do this, at least not to the same extent. The main problem with guinea pigs, rabbits and, to a lesser extent rats, is that they are coprophagous, a circumstance which makes interpretation of true absorption results complicated."

"Rats are poorer animal models than pigs for studies on bone metabolism because their skeletons are continuously growing and never reach a bone remodeling stage paralleling that of human adults. In pigs, closure of epiphyseal cartilage occurs at the age of two to four years [77]. There is, however, no evidence that this difference, which may be important when studying factors affecting osteoporosis [78], has any effect on the absorptive capacity of the intestine."

"Pigs and rats lose very little calcium in the urine, whereas humans and guinea pigs have very high urinary calcium levels. This factor limits the suitability of pigs for use in studies on the factors that may influence urinary calcium levels in humans. The lack of renal excretion of the excess absorbed calcium is probably offset in pigs by greater elimination via the endogenous fecal route."

"Intestinal absorption does not necessarily reflect the bioavailability to the whole organism because calcium must be retained and used in bone formation and mineralization. Phosphorus must also be present for the production of hydroxyapatite (a complex tricalcium phosphate). The dissociation of calcium intake from that of phosphorus (if, for example, the calcium source is not ingested with the meal and/or this source contains no P), may restrict bone mineralization. This has been known for some time and was recently confirmed in growing pigs, which are extremely sensitive to dietary mineral supplies [45,117]."

"A [] report [126] showed that giving a calcium supplement in the form of calcium-rich water to postmenopausal women for two months reduced bone resorption (determined by the excretion of markers of bone resorption), but that the effect was much less marked with high-sulfate water than with high-bicarbonate water."

"Dairy products do not contain anything likely to inhibit the intestinal absorption of calcium, like phytates, oxalates, uronic acids or the polyphenols of certain plant foods. The hypercalciuric effect of sulfates from milk proteins is offset by the hypocalciuric effect of phosphorus [156]. The endogenous sulfates produced by the breakdown of sulfur-containing amino acids produces a SO4/Ca ratio of 0.6, while this ratio is 2.6 in some high-sulfate, high-calcium mineral waters."​

- Higher calcium urinary loss induced by a calcium sulphate-rich mineral water intake than by milk in young women (from one of the links posted in this thread)

"Whatever the intake of bioavailable Ca above the mean nutritional requirements (about 80% of the recommended dietary intake), the Ca balance is determined by other constituents of the diet that act on urinary loss, either by increasing it as a result of an acidogenic action (chloride, SO4) or by decreasing it from an alkalogenic and other effects (P, HCO3, K, etc.)."

"This does not mean, however, that the Ca in SO4-rich water cannot be used for bone mineralisation. When the Ca intake is low, for example in the absence of milk products, the skeleton derives its Ca from all absorbable sources of Ca, including vegetables and CaSO4-rich waters, but, with an identical Ca intake, the Ca balance would be better with Ca from milk."​

@Wagner83
 

Amazoniac

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- Does it make a difference how and when you take your calcium? The acute effects of calcium on calcium and bone metabolism

"The discussion concerning dietary calcium has mainly focused on recommended intakes. However! Because dietary calcium also has direct metabolic effects [eg, calcium decreases parathyroid hormone (PTH) secretion], it is important to determine the optimal time and method of dosing. For instance, PTH (1)—which is an important regulator of calcium metabolism—and markers of bone formation (2) and bone resorption (3) follow a diurnal rhythm. Therefore, the effects of calcium may depend on the time of the day that calcium is ingested. The size of the calcium load may also be important. The acute suppressive effect of calcium doses > 400 mg (4, 5) on serum PTH secretion is well established and the duration of the effect was shown to be 8–10 h (6). Although a higher percentage of calcium is absorbed from small than from large calcium loads (7), it is not known whether the total amount absorbed from a calcium load comparable with the amount of calcium typically ingested in a Western diet, ie, 200–400 mg, has an effect on calcium and bone metabolism."

"[Our] aim was to study the effects of the timing of the dose (study 1), the effects of the size of the dose (study 2), and the effects of small repetitive doses (study 3) of calcium on calcium and bone metabolism in women."

"It is well known that an oral calcium load of ≥1 g decreases serum PTH concentrations and increases serum ionized calcium concentrations and urinary calcium excretion (9, 8, 14). Because the typical calcium load of a normal meal is < 500 mg, we studied the effect of small calcium loads on calcium metabolism. The present study extends the previous findings by showing that there was a response in serum PTH concentrations even after a calcium load as small as 200 mg. In addition, serum PTH concentrations followed a diurnal rhythm after repetitive doses of calcium, but at lower concentrations than during the control session. Because it was shown that variations in serum PTH concentrations are important to bone (15), a repetitive dosage regimen could be especially beneficial to bone. On the other hand, a single high dose could be more effective because it causes a greater decrease in serum PTH."

"The markers of calcium metabolism follow a diurnal rhythm (16, 1, 3), a finding that was confirmed in the present study. Because PTH concentrations peak at night (1), it is postulated that the timing of the calcium dose could be important in inhibiting bone resorption, which is greater at night than during the day (2). In the present study the diurnal variation was taken into account by including a control session in which subjects did not receive calcium supplementation. In addition, special care was taken to ensure that the sampling times during different study sessions were identical. The response curves of serum PTH were, however, similar whether the calcium load was taken at 0900 or at 2100. Bluhmsohn et al (6) stated that calcium taken in the evening reverses the nocturnal increase in serum PTH concentrations, whereas calcium taken in the morning does not. Serum PTH concentrations returned to baseline 8–10 h after a single oral dose of 1000 mg Ca in the present study and in other studies (6, 17). Thus, calcium taken in the morning no longer has an effect on serum PTH concentrations by evening. Wowever, McKane et al (18) showed that the secretory capacity of the parathyroid gland decreases with long-term, high calcium intakes (2.4 g/d). In addition, we showed that serum PTH concentrations in the morning are lower with habitually high calcium intakes (1.3 g/d) than with low intakes, even within a normal calcium intake range (19)."

"The PTH response to an oral calcium load is used as an indicator of bioavailability of calcium from calcium supplements (5, 20). In the present study there was a dose-response effect on the changes in serum ionized calcium and serum PTH concentrations after the 250- and 1000-mg Ca loads. This extends the previous finding of a dose-response effect of 500- and 1000-mg Ca loads on changes in serum ionized calcium and serum PTH concentrations (21). Increases in serum ionized calcium were similar after higher loads of 1000 and 2000 mg Ca (4), which may have been due to the saturation of the active mechanism of calcium absorption (22)."

"On the basis of the results of the present study, we conclude that there is no significant difference in the acute effects of calcium supplementation on serum PTH concentrations regardless of whether the doses are taken during the day or night. Thus, considering the acute response, there is no need to specifically recommend that calcium supplements be taken at night, at least not by women before menopause [some could be taking bird control pills for recreational intercourse without risk of creation of new lives; open erosthesiology book ,chapter storkology one-zero-one : al dere]. However, there is a possibility that chronic supplementation could induce an adaptation process in favor of one of the regimens."

"The dose clearly has an effect on PTH concentrations: the higher the calcium dose, the lower the PTH concentration. In addition, if a high dose of calcium is distributed in small doses over an entire day, PTH concentrations averaged over the entire day are low but do still fluctuate throughout the day. However, we do not know which is better for bone health: larger fluctuations in serum PTH concentrations after one large dose of calcium or low PTH concentrations during the day as a result of many small doses of calcium. Because we did not see any effect of the timing of the dose or the amount of the dose of calcium on the bone markers studied, we cannot make any definite conclusions about which regimen is best for bone health. This must be evaluated further in long-term studies."

upload_2019-10-9_9-0-56.png
upload_2019-10-9_9-1-4.png

There were changes in meal composition from study 2 to 3 that could also contribute to the difference between 250 mg and 200 mg.
 
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Amazoniac

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- From space to Earth: Advances in human physiology from 20 years of bed rest studies (1986-2006) (!)

"Mechanical unloading of bones results in a pronounced loss of bone mass. The strongest stimulus for bone loss during bed rest is the absence of mechanical loading of the lower extremities. Bed rest is therefore appropriate as a model to study the changes of the musculoskeletal system in microgravity. However, the magnitude of bone loss in bed rest seems to be less than in spaceflight (LeBlanc et al. 1990a; LeBlanc et al. 2000; Baecker et al. 2003; Smith et al. 1998)."

"[Ein] theory suggests that, in a manner analogous to the thermostatic control of temperature, the strain (i.e. deformation) in bone is kept within certain thresholds. If the strains exceed the upper threshold, then modelling-driven bone formation drifts (Frost 1990a) will increase bone mass and strength. Conversely, if the strains permanently remain below the lower threshold, then remodelling (Frost 1990b) is enhanced. This implies (i) an increased activation rate of so-called basic multicellular units (BMUs), i.e. ensembles of osteoclasts and osteoblasts to carry out the remodelling process, and (ii) a negative bone balance to the incomplete filling of the resorption cavities. Consequently, bones become stronger when the force they experience is increased, and they become weaker when their loading is reduced."

"It is important to realize that the largest forces that bones are subjected to do not arise from gravity per se, but from the action of muscles, often working against gravity. This is mainly due to the short levers against which muscles work (Özkaya and Nordin 1998)."

"Obviously, this mechanostat hypothesis can well explain the bone loss that is observed after unloading bones, as occurs after a stroke (Jorgensen et al. 2000), after spinal cord injury (Griffiths et al. 1976; Biering-Sorensen et al. 1990; Eser et al. 2004), after anterior cruciate ligament injury (Sievanen et al. 1994a; Leppala et al. 1999), and also during bed rest (Donaldson et al. 1970; LeBlanc et al. 1990b; Zerwekh et al. 1998) and spaceflight (Vogel and Whittle 1976; Oganov et al. 1992; Vico et al. 2000a). As the bone loss observed in all of these examples is very similar, bed rest studies are a well-accepted analog to spaceflight."

"Bones also play an important role in calcium homeostasis. Accordingly, it was initially thought that the increased calcium excretion during spaceflight and bed rest reflected some kind of primarily endocrine disorder (Arnaud and Morey-Holton 1990). However, supplementation of either calcium or vitamin D, or both, during bed rest cannot prevent bone loss (Heer et al. 1999; Heer 2002). This underscores the notion that mechanical usage is crucial for the maintenance of bone."

"In most bed rest studies calcium excretion and bone resorption markers (Vernikos et al. 1996; Zerwekh et al. 1998; Baecker et al. 2003) promptly increase after the onset of immobilization (Baecker et al. 2003; Inoue et al. 2000; Kim et al. 2003; Lueken et al. 1993; Nishimura et al. 1994; Smith et al. 1998) while for bone formation markers the results are rather inconsistent."

"Testosterone levels decrease during bed rest (Vernikos et al. 1993) as well as spaceflight (Strollo et al. 1998). This could contribute to the catabolic state seen in microgravity. It may be possible to counteract this catabolic state with testosterone to improve muscle strength and thereby the mechanical loading on bone."

"There is ample evidence for the crucial role that mechanical loading per se plays in bone health (Rubin and Lanyon 1987). Since bed rest is inevitably coupled with reduced mechanical loading, using various exercise regimes to overcome the effects of unloading and maintain bone mass seems a reasonable approach. The most effective exercise used to counteract loss of bone mass and strength seems to be any form of resistive exercise or combinations of resistive with other forms of exercise."​

It's worth reading the article, there's a lot more discussed in it.

@Constatino @Dioquino @Juan
 

Hans

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- From space to Earth: Advances in human physiology from 20 years of bed rest studies (1986-2006) (!)

"Mechanical unloading of bones results in a pronounced loss of bone mass. The strongest stimulus for bone loss during bed rest is the absence of mechanical loading of the lower extremities. Bed rest is therefore appropriate as a model to study the changes of the musculoskeletal system in microgravity. However, the magnitude of bone loss in bed rest seems to be less than in spaceflight (LeBlanc et al. 1990a; LeBlanc et al. 2000; Baecker et al. 2003; Smith et al. 1998)."

"[Ein] theory suggests that, in a manner analogous to the thermostatic control of temperature, the strain (i.e. deformation) in bone is kept within certain thresholds. If the strains exceed the upper threshold, then modelling-driven bone formation drifts (Frost 1990a) will increase bone mass and strength. Conversely, if the strains permanently remain below the lower threshold, then remodelling (Frost 1990b) is enhanced. This implies (i) an increased activation rate of so-called basic multicellular units (BMUs), i.e. ensembles of osteoclasts and osteoblasts to carry out the remodelling process, and (ii) a negative bone balance to the incomplete filling of the resorption cavities. Consequently, bones become stronger when the force they experience is increased, and they become weaker when their loading is reduced."

"It is important to realize that the largest forces that bones are subjected to do not arise from gravity per se, but from the action of muscles, often working against gravity. This is mainly due to the short levers against which muscles work (Özkaya and Nordin 1998)."

"Obviously, this mechanostat hypothesis can well explain the bone loss that is observed after unloading bones, as occurs after a stroke (Jorgensen et al. 2000), after spinal cord injury (Griffiths et al. 1976; Biering-Sorensen et al. 1990; Eser et al. 2004), after anterior cruciate ligament injury (Sievanen et al. 1994a; Leppala et al. 1999), and also during bed rest (Donaldson et al. 1970; LeBlanc et al. 1990b; Zerwekh et al. 1998) and spaceflight (Vogel and Whittle 1976; Oganov et al. 1992; Vico et al. 2000a). As the bone loss observed in all of these examples is very similar, bed rest studies are a well-accepted analog to spaceflight."

"Bones also play an important role in calcium homeostasis. Accordingly, it was initially thought that the increased calcium excretion during spaceflight and bed rest reflected some kind of primarily endocrine disorder (Arnaud and Morey-Holton 1990). However, supplementation of either calcium or vitamin D, or both, during bed rest cannot prevent bone loss (Heer et al. 1999; Heer 2002). This underscores the notion that mechanical usage is crucial for the maintenance of bone."

"In most bed rest studies calcium excretion and bone resorption markers (Vernikos et al. 1996; Zerwekh et al. 1998; Baecker et al. 2003) promptly increase after the onset of immobilization (Baecker et al. 2003; Inoue et al. 2000; Kim et al. 2003; Lueken et al. 1993; Nishimura et al. 1994; Smith et al. 1998) while for bone formation markers the results are rather inconsistent."

"Testosterone levels decrease during bed rest (Vernikos et al. 1993) as well as spaceflight (Strollo et al. 1998). This could contribute to the catabolic state seen in microgravity. It may be possible to counteract this catabolic state with testosterone to improve muscle strength and thereby the mechanical loading on bone."

"There is ample evidence for the crucial role that mechanical loading per se plays in bone health (Rubin and Lanyon 1987). Since bed rest is inevitably coupled with reduced mechanical loading, using various exercise regimes to overcome the effects of unloading and maintain bone mass seems a reasonable approach. The most effective exercise used to counteract loss of bone mass and strength seems to be any form of resistive exercise or combinations of resistive with other forms of exercise."​

It's worth reading the article, there's a lot more discussed in it.

@Constatino @Dioquino @Juan
Yes movement and movement under load can be very healing if done right. Kettlebell swings are surprising good at that while preventing any or too much joint discomfort.
 

baccheion

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- From space to Earth: Advances in human physiology from 20 years of bed rest studies (1986-2006) (!)

"Mechanical unloading of bones results in a pronounced loss of bone mass. The strongest stimulus for bone loss during bed rest is the absence of mechanical loading of the lower extremities. Bed rest is therefore appropriate as a model to study the changes of the musculoskeletal system in microgravity. However, the magnitude of bone loss in bed rest seems to be less than in spaceflight (LeBlanc et al. 1990a; LeBlanc et al. 2000; Baecker et al. 2003; Smith et al. 1998)."

"[Ein] theory suggests that, in a manner analogous to the thermostatic control of temperature, the strain (i.e. deformation) in bone is kept within certain thresholds. If the strains exceed the upper threshold, then modelling-driven bone formation drifts (Frost 1990a) will increase bone mass and strength. Conversely, if the strains permanently remain below the lower threshold, then remodelling (Frost 1990b) is enhanced. This implies (i) an increased activation rate of so-called basic multicellular units (BMUs), i.e. ensembles of osteoclasts and osteoblasts to carry out the remodelling process, and (ii) a negative bone balance to the incomplete filling of the resorption cavities. Consequently, bones become stronger when the force they experience is increased, and they become weaker when their loading is reduced."

"It is important to realize that the largest forces that bones are subjected to do not arise from gravity per se, but from the action of muscles, often working against gravity. This is mainly due to the short levers against which muscles work (Özkaya and Nordin 1998)."

"Obviously, this mechanostat hypothesis can well explain the bone loss that is observed after unloading bones, as occurs after a stroke (Jorgensen et al. 2000), after spinal cord injury (Griffiths et al. 1976; Biering-Sorensen et al. 1990; Eser et al. 2004), after anterior cruciate ligament injury (Sievanen et al. 1994a; Leppala et al. 1999), and also during bed rest (Donaldson et al. 1970; LeBlanc et al. 1990b; Zerwekh et al. 1998) and spaceflight (Vogel and Whittle 1976; Oganov et al. 1992; Vico et al. 2000a). As the bone loss observed in all of these examples is very similar, bed rest studies are a well-accepted analog to spaceflight."

"Bones also play an important role in calcium homeostasis. Accordingly, it was initially thought that the increased calcium excretion during spaceflight and bed rest reflected some kind of primarily endocrine disorder (Arnaud and Morey-Holton 1990). However, supplementation of either calcium or vitamin D, or both, during bed rest cannot prevent bone loss (Heer et al. 1999; Heer 2002). This underscores the notion that mechanical usage is crucial for the maintenance of bone."

"In most bed rest studies calcium excretion and bone resorption markers (Vernikos et al. 1996; Zerwekh et al. 1998; Baecker et al. 2003) promptly increase after the onset of immobilization (Baecker et al. 2003; Inoue et al. 2000; Kim et al. 2003; Lueken et al. 1993; Nishimura et al. 1994; Smith et al. 1998) while for bone formation markers the results are rather inconsistent."

"Testosterone levels decrease during bed rest (Vernikos et al. 1993) as well as spaceflight (Strollo et al. 1998). This could contribute to the catabolic state seen in microgravity. It may be possible to counteract this catabolic state with testosterone to improve muscle strength and thereby the mechanical loading on bone."

"There is ample evidence for the crucial role that mechanical loading per se plays in bone health (Rubin and Lanyon 1987). Since bed rest is inevitably coupled with reduced mechanical loading, using various exercise regimes to overcome the effects of unloading and maintain bone mass seems a reasonable approach. The most effective exercise used to counteract loss of bone mass and strength seems to be any form of resistive exercise or combinations of resistive with other forms of exercise."​

It's worth reading the article, there's a lot more discussed in it.

@Constatino @Dioquino @Juan
Is this reduced with higher protein (1g per pound of lean body mass)? More protein (with a balanced/2:1 glycine : (methionine + cysteine + tryptophan) ratio) is said to equal more HGH. More = improved bone density. What about vitamin K2, since it reduces osteoclasts?
 

Amazoniac

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Is this reduced with higher protein (1g per pound of lean body mass)? More protein (with a balanced/2:1 glycine : (methionine + cysteine + tryptophan) ratio) is said to equal more HGH. More = improved bone density. What about vitamin K2, since it reduces osteoclasts?
It's worth reading the article, there's a lot more discussed in it.
Page 34/53..
 

Amazoniac

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- Avian eggshell mineralization: biochemical and functional characterization of matrix proteins

"Across a wide number of bird species, the mass of eggshell is proportional to the egg's mass [3], representing 10–11% of the egg's weight."​

- Chicken eggshell as suitable calcium source at home (from Jennifer's thread)

"Since there were no differences between free-running and battery eggshells the results are shown together. Eggshell weight was 5.43±0.79 g (n=16). Mineral composition was: organic matter = 16.1±4.6 g/100 g chicken eggshell and inorganic matter = 83.9±5.0 g/100 g chicken eggshell. Mineral content is shown in Table 1 as gram (g) of each mineral and organic matter per 100 g chicken eggshell (meanSD). It should be noted that a complete eggshell contains 2.07±0.18 g of Ca (381±89 mg Ca/g eggshell)" ", consistent with Schaafsma et al., who found from 385 to 401 mg Ca/g eggshell depending on the eggshell origin (Schaafsma et al., 2000)." "[Therefore], half of an eggshell provides 100% of the adult Ca daily requirement."

"A rolling pin and then a small sieve were evaluated as mechanical methods available at home compared with a mixer mill as the standard method. As expected particle size of the powder was smaller with the laboratory instrument: mixer mill = 0.14±0.07 mm versus rolling pin+sieve= 0.45±0.25 mm; p<0.05 (Figure 1) (unpaired Student's t-test, p<0.05)."

"Additionally, it was found that the dissolution of a whole eggshell was achieved with 108.6±15.8 ml of 100% vinegar in 48 h of incubation at room temperature. The acetic acid concentration of the commercial vinegars was titrated (n=25) and 4.5±0.6% was obtained. No differences were found from the different kinds of vinegars: alcohol, wine, apples and rice."

"Balsamic vinegar was not different from other vinegars. Regarding the use of fruit juices, the dissolution of a complete eggshell could be achieved with approximately 120 ml of lemon juice or 800 ml of orange juice in 48 h of incubation at room temperature."

"Several common containers as spoons, teaspoons, plastic cups, coffee cups, tea cups, metal bottle-caps and plastic bottle-caps have been tested to be use at home to easily determine the amount of eggshell without scales. We found that the simplest way to determine the amount of required eggshell is the plastic bottle screw cap. This is an usual container and has similar sizes worldwide. A cap of a plastic bottle of soft drink can contain approximately 5 g of chicken eggshell powder, which is equivalent to a complete eggshell, which can provide 100% of Ca daily requirements for two adults."​

For a vinegar with an acetic acid concentration of 6%, about 80 ml of it would be required accomplish the same. I would expect more since 5 g of eggshell contain about 2 g of killcium, and 25% of killcium acetate is composed of it. Then, how can 110 ml of 4.5% acetic acid vinegar be enough? It will provide something like 5 g of acetic acid, when 6 g were expected to be needed.

This is relevant:
- Magnesium Supplementation
 
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Amazoniac

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The comparison between eggshell and milch above was not represented well. When eggshell is matched for killcium and compared to milch, it only provides more of a minority of minerals, the graph is visually misleading. Since it's based on milch parts, having 10x more takes up a far greater space than fractioning the reference for 10x less. Various elements there were close to a relative 0%, and they doesn't stand out like the exceptions which were in excess.

Multiples gives a clearer idea. Here they continue to be matched for killcium relying on the values above, but there's no confusing art this time, only mistakes that will be spotted in a matter of months. Milch provides this much more/less of the element than eggshells:

Si: 45958
Cu: 15138
Ni: 1931
Zn: 1062
K: 763
Rb: 739
P: 210
Cs: 129
Na: 90
Li: 76
Se: 67
V: 54
Mo: 47
La: 39
Mn: 29
As: 21
Ce: 15
I: 10
Be: 9
Tl: 9
Al: 7
Mg: 7
Pb: 6
Cr: 6
Fe: 5
Ti: 3
Co: 2
Hg: 2
Cd: 1
Ca: 1
Ba: -1
Sc: -3
Sr: -12


The reason why I returned to it is because of this:
- Role of Zinc in Bone Metabolism and Preventive Effect on Bone Disorder
 
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Nighteyes

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:tearsofjoy:

I really must say that I gravitate more towards agreeing with our former russian guru than with ray regarding milch and calcium. It simply isnt for everybody and certainly not if metabolism is slow.. amazoniac did you ever do a test for oxidation type and have you adjusted your calcium intake accordingly?
 

Hildy

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- Avian eggshell mineralization: biochemical and functional characterization of matrix proteins

"Across a wide number of bird species, the mass of eggshell is proportional to the egg's mass [3], representing 10–11% of the egg's weight."​

- Chicken eggshell as suitable calcium source at home (from Jennifer's thread)

"Since there were no differences between free-running and battery eggshells the results are shown together. Eggshell weight was 5.43±0.79 g (n=16). Mineral composition was: organic matter = 16.1±4.6 g/100 g chicken eggshell and inorganic matter = 83.9±5.0 g/100 g chicken eggshell. Mineral content is shown in Table 1 as gram (g) of each mineral and organic matter per 100 g chicken eggshell (meanSD). It should be noted that a complete eggshell contains 2.07±0.18 g of Ca (381±89 mg Ca/g eggshell)" ", consistent with Schaafsma et al., who found from 385 to 401 mg Ca/g eggshell depending on the eggshell origin (Schaafsma et al., 2000)." "[Therefore], half of an eggshell provides 100% of the adult Ca daily requirement."

"A rolling pin and then a small sieve were evaluated as mechanical methods available at home compared with a mixer mill as the standard method. As expected particle size of the powder was smaller with the laboratory instrument: mixer mill = 0.14±0.07 mm versus rolling pin+sieve= 0.45±0.25 mm; p<0.05 (Figure 1) (unpaired Student's t-test, p<0.05)."

"Additionally, it was found that the dissolution of a whole eggshell was achieved with 108.6±15.8 ml of 100% vinegar in 48 h of incubation at room temperature. The acetic acid concentration of the commercial vinegars was titrated (n=25) and 4.5±0.6% was obtained. No differences were found from the different kinds of vinegars: alcohol, wine, apples and rice."

"Balsamic vinegar was not different from other vinegars. Regarding the use of fruit juices, the dissolution of a complete eggshell could be achieved with approximately 120 ml of lemon juice or 800 ml of orange juice in 48 h of incubation at room temperature."

"Several common containers as spoons, teaspoons, plastic cups, coffee cups, tea cups, metal bottle-caps and plastic bottle-caps have been tested to be use at home to easily determine the amount of eggshell without scales. We found that the simplest way to determine the amount of required eggshell is the plastic bottle screw cap. This is an usual container and has similar sizes worldwide. A cap of a plastic bottle of soft drink can contain approximately 5 g of chicken eggshell powder, which is equivalent to a complete eggshell, which can provide 100% of Ca daily requirements for two adults."​

For a vinegar with an acetic acid concentration of 6%, about 80 ml of it would be required accomplish the same. I would expect more since 5 g of eggshell contain about 2 g of killcium, and 25% of killcium acetate is composed of it. Then, how can 110 ml of 4.5% acetic acid vinegar be enough? It will provide something like 5 g of acetic acid, when 6 g were expected to be needed.

This is relevant:
- Magnesium Supplementation
Amazon, your posts are quite prolific, varied and interesting, but do you think you could make them a bit more user friendly- i.e. Perhaps a bullet point presentation? I'm on information overload trying to process the abundance of your verbiage.
 

Amazoniac

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:tearsofjoy:

I really must say that I gravitate more towards agreeing with our former russian guru than with ray regarding milch and calcium. It simply isnt for everybody and certainly not if metabolism is slow.. amazoniac did you ever do a test for oxidation type and have you adjusted your calcium intake accordingly?
You mean our cyprian guru?

I agree with him as well, there is a beneficial range and those with poor metabolism have less flexibility. If it's robust, the person can afford the luxuries of getting by with little micronutrition, being efficient enough in utilization to make what's available last for days. Others can't do this, renewal has to be constant. The same applies to excess, it's normalized without difficulty and imbalances are barely noticed.

I don't think I need a test to define my type, I'm sure it's on the hypometabolic side, the usefulness may be in getting an idea on the extent.

But milch has to be suited for recovery because it's supposed to nourish a fetus regardless of its current condition: whether it's in good wealth or a critical state. Yet it was never designed to be paired with other foods and meet the needs of an adult, so the adjustments will be required and I guess this is where it starts to get tricky.
 

Amazoniac

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Tut, I pressed 'post' by accident.
Amazon, your posts are quite prolific, varied and interesting, but do you think you could make them a bit more user friendly- i.e. Perhaps a bullet point presentation? I'm on information overload trying to process the abundance of your verbiage.
I suspect it's the prolactinese that's making it difficult, learning a new language can be challenging at first. Have you tried to consume less milch and dairy to speed up the process? However, hardship can make the accomplishments more valuable, would you make use of the golden locks principle? Prolactin level in blood needs to be at least on the high end of normal for fluency, there is no other way. If you're interested in a teacher certificate, you'll need it red.

What I meanted:
- 1 bottle cap = 5 g or so of eggshell
- 5 g of it contain about 2 g of calcium
- Calcium constitutes 25% of calcium acetate, which is the major form after reacting eggshells with vinegar
- There will be 2 g of calcium regardless of how much vinegar is added, this is 25% of the final product, for completion you would need the rest (75%) of acetate to be present: 6 g
- According to them, 110 ml of 4.5% acetic acid vinegar was need'd for neutralization, wowever it only provides about 5 g of acetic acid
- Based on their values, 80 ml of 6% acetic acid vinegar would be necessary to provide a similar amount
- If it's around 80-110 ml and each tablespoon of vinegar holds 25 ml, you can expect 3-4 tablespoons being required in the process
 

Hildy

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Tut, I pressed 'post' by accident.

I suspect it's the prolactinese that's making it difficult, learning a new language can be challenging at first. Have you tried to consume less milch and dairy to speed up the process? However, hardship can make the accomplishments more valuable, would you make use of the golden locks principle? Prolactin level in blood needs to be at least on the high end of normal for fluency, there is no other way. If you're interested in a teacher certificate, you'll need it red.

What I meanted:
- 1 bottle cap = 5 g or so of eggshell
- 5 g of it contain about 2 g of calcium
- Calcium constitutes 25% of calcium acetate, which is the major form after reacting eggshells with vinegar
- There will be 2 g of calcium regardless of how much vinegar is added, this is 25% of the final product, for completion you would need the rest (75%) of acetate to be present: 6 g
- According to them, 110 ml of 4.5% acetic acid vinegar was need'd for neutralization, wowever it only provides about 5 g of acetic acid
- Based on their values, 80 ml of 6% acetic acid vinegar would be necessary to provide a similar amount
- If it's around 80-110 ml and each tablespoon of vinegar holds 25 ml, you can expect 3-4 tablespoons being required in the process
That works. Better.
 

Amazoniac

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I'll be making some comments based on these:

- Calcium and vitamin D supplementation: state of the art for daily practice (from previous page)
- Exploration of Intestinal Calcium Precipitation as a Barrier to Absorption at High Calcium Doses
- Factors affecting calcium precipitation during neutralisation in a simulated intestinal environment

Improper nomenclature not only makes things more confusing, but also prevent associations that help in understanding topics. Some days ago I posted about sodium bicarbonate and how its name is outdated and wrong: it's not bicarbonated. Referring to it as the suggested 'sodium hydrogen carbonate' is clearer.

So what, right? I thought the same before dealing with something practical later when reading about the digestion of killcium, the toxin. Killcium is solubilized in the stomach, but as the pH throughout the digestive tract changes, salts can precipitate again and become less available for uptake. As you know, pancreas is responsible for neutralizing the crime from the stomach in the intestines, it's easier to associate (or suspect) a donation when you have the term 'sodium hydrogen carbonate' in mind, leaving you with the poorly-adsorbable killcium carbonate.

The formation depends on pH. This is interesting:

"Calcium can remain in its free form, Ca2+, or associate with HCO3− to form calcium bicarbonate, CaHCO3+, a soluble ion. Both forms of calcium are in solution and allow availability of calcium for absorption.[8] If there are sufficient concentrations of Ca2+ and CO2(3−), then calcium carbonate, CaCO3, will precipitate from solution, leaving the solid unavailable for absorption."

"As expected, the fraction of calcium absorbed from the calcium carbonate tablets [in an experiment] was significantly higher in normal subjects due to the low stomach pH needed to dissolve the tablets. Surprisingly, however, after ingesting a calcium citrate solution, the absorption of calcium increased from approximately 25% in healthy subjects to 40% in achlorhydric patients. In patients with achlorhydria, the stomach pH ranges from 5 to 7. The chyme that empties into the duodenum does not have a pH low enough to induce appreciable secretin-mediated intestinal bicarbonate, and therefore, less carbonate is expected to be available to precipitate the calcium. Under these conditions, the calcium should be readily absorbed."​

But there is something strange with killcium carbonate, complaints are more common: gas, bloating, constipation.

When killcium enters the stomach, it's solubilized and the salt dissociates into parts. One is the killcium iod, and the other is the ligand in question. If it's a carboxylate such as acetate or citrate, these will later on be recovered in the intestines, and even though the precipitation happens with various killcium forms, the presence of those will prevent it from occurring during the neutralization phase mentioned above.

People who is constipated likely deal with exhaustion of fermentable carbs in the intestines, they might have less acids being produced or the wrong kind simply because food spends too much time stagnated. It's the idea mentioned in posts #1 and #11 here.

When you shove down killcium carbonate, which is an antacid, it can behave in such way throughout the digestive tract, suppressing the activity further and making constipation worse.

Gases can diffuse through the intestines and be exhaled, but if the barrier is inflammed, coated [perhaps from infections (raiser, 2019)] or there's too much, it tends to go up or down whenever possible. Killcium carbonate reformed in the intestines might react with organic acids being generated from microbial action and produce extra gas a long time after the meal.

Therefore you have to balance how much suppression is desirable. A bolus dose will likely lead to this effect because (being optimistic) only 30% of a considerable amount is apsorpeq, and it decreases as the dose increases. If the goal is to maximize killcium adsorption, lower doses at a time are preferable (check out the second link); if the goal is suppression, more is better.

Magnesium must go through the same issues. Such limitation in adsorption helps to maintain their balance when there are extreme intakes of either.

If you have infections present, you also have to be careful with the meal composition because the excess killcium can increase virulence by improving microbial resistance. For example, if you experience issues with sugar or starch, the suppressive effect of excess killcium can be outweighed by the improved defense against immunity, making the infections worse because you'll be providing the substrate, the shield and preventing movement.

When this toxin is obtained from foods, adverse effects are less probable because each contain their own array of antimicrobials, leaving it less accessible for germs. They will also contain nutrients that allow killcium to be better utilized.

One thing to try if struggling to make this toxin work is to add a mild form (such as killcium citrate) to small amounts of water on empty stomach: keeping it simpler and adding complexity when you're confident that what you're doing isn't counterproductive. Consuming with juices that provide citrate and malate can also help because these might eventually mix and prevent the formation of insoluble salts.

Lipase might release the longer-chain fatty acids and form Raj's soaps, not good if the aim is adsorption, but useful for protection, apparently not a concern based on what was quoted before. Amino acids are made free from pancreatic secretions, so they can work as ligands (there are various mineral salts on the market with amino acids, search for anionic amino acids); carboxylic acids have similarities with them and are good candidates because they're already available before the hand.

"It has been established that high protein diets promote calcium absorption.[19] Possible reasons for the results are (a) a physiological response to protein, such as stimulation of gastric acid secretion,[20] (b) an association between the calcium and the digested protein, thereby increasing calcium solubility and/or (c) the buffering of the GI contents by the protein. If the buffering effect were significant, the more neutral chyme leaving the stomach would stimulate less intestinal HCO3 secretion, yielding less CaCO3 precipitation and a higher concentration of soluble calcium available for absorption. In addition, bile is secreted into the intestine from the liver, via the gallbladder, to aid in digestion.[7] The primary components of bile are cholic acids, conjugated with taurine or glycine, phospholipids and cholesterol, which may enhance the solubility of intestinal contents,[21] such as calcium salts. The presence of taurocholate has been shown to improve calcium absorption in the rat.[22] The mechanism is unknown, but it was speculated that calcium absorption increased by either the formation of soluble complexes with taurocholate, thereby increasing the concentration of soluble calcium, or a direct effect at the brush border. Phosphate is another species present in the GI tract which may contribute to calcium precipitation but is not addressed in the current research because the concentration of phosphate in the luminal contents was not available."​

Regarding interactions, it's more complicated than it seems and animal experiments have to be considered with care. An example would be the unrealistic scenario of getting all your nutrition from a ration. Venom D seems to enhance the adsorption of various nutrients, and if it happens to increase their internal consumption as well, one factor can offset the other and on the surface it will appear that it has no impact on them. In reality, the person will be consuming it with specific meals and it could serve to heighten the imbalances.

But anyway, those were on glass experiments and it's worth reading them nevertheless.
 
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