Maybe It’s Not The Cannabinoids At All

Inaut

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Just thinking out loud but maybe more of the benefits are derived from the terpenes in the marijuana then the psychoactive/non psychoactive cannabinoids? Obviously there is a synergistic effect in whole plant and evidence showing that thc/cbd are beneficial in their own right...I just think the terpenes are somewhat neglected in terms of medicinal application when talking about weed...

Just watched this video about some of the terpenes found in marijuana (but also in most other plants) and their physiological effects. Found it quite interesting.



The headline of this thread is probably somewhat misleading and incorrrect (which i apologize for in advance) but I’ve developed a deep interest in Limonene atm so I guess my thoughts are biased (coming from somebody who over indulged in marijuana use for a very long time).

Open for discussion as always :)
 

burtlancast

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I recently learned that CBD oil from cannabis had noticeably better effects than CBD oil from hemp: and the explanation was the associated terpenoids found in cannabis but not in hemp.
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I recently learned that CBD oil from cannabis had noticeably better effects than CBD oil from hemp: and the explanation was the associated terpenoids found in cannabis but not in hemp.
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What do you mean by hemp? Technical grade plant used for production of fiber?
 
OP
Inaut

Inaut

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@methylenewhite i think this is what @burtlancast was getting at.

TERPENES AND THE "ENTOURAGE EFFECT"
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Most animal studies with cannabidiol utilize synthetic, single-molecule CBDproduced by biochemical laboratories for research purposes. In contrast, whole plant extractions typically include CBD, THC, and more than 400 trace compounds. Many of these compounds interact synergistically to create what scientists refer to as an “entourage effect” that magnifies the therapeutic benefits of the plant’s individual components—so that the medicinal impact of the whole plant is greater than the sum of its parts.

It is important to consider the entourage effect (or lack thereof) when extrapolating data based on animal studies: 100 milligrams of synthetic single-molecule CBD is not equivalent to 100 milligrams of a CBD-rich whole plant cannabis extract.

“Cannabis is inherently polypharmaceutical,” Dr. John McPartland notes, “and synergy arises from interactions between its multiple components.”

TERPENES
Consider the role of terpenes, for example. Terpenes are volatile aromatic molecules that evaporate easily and readily announce themselves to the nose. Various researchers have emphasized the pharmacological importance of terpenes, or terpenoids, which form the basis of aromatherapy, a popular holistic healing modality. Marijuana’s compelling fragrance and particular psychoactive flavor are determined by the predominate terpenes in a strain.

Around 200 terpenes have been found in cannabis, but only a few of these odiferous oily substances appear in amounts substantial enough to be noteworthy, or nose worthy, as it were. Among them are monoterpenes, diterpenes, and sesquiterpenes, which are characterized by the number of repeating units of a 5-carbon molecule called isoprene, the structural hallmark of all terpenoid compounds. The terpenes in marijuana have given the plant an enduring, evolutionary advantage. Pungent terpenoid oils repel insects and animal grazers; others prevent fungus.

report by Dr. Ethan Russo in the British Journal of Pharmacology discussed the wide-ranging therapeutic attributes of terpenoids, which are typically lacking in “CBD-only” products.

Beta-caryophyllene, for example, is a sesquiterpene found in the essential oil of black pepper, oregano, and other edible herbs, as well as in various cannabis strains and in many green, leafy vegetables. It is gastro-protective, good for treating certain ulcers, and offers great promise as a therapeutic compound for inflammatory conditions and auto-immune disorders because it binds directly to the peripheral cannabinoid receptor known as “CB2.”

In 2008, the Swiss scientist Jürg Gertsch documented beta-caryophyllene’s binding affinity for the CB2 receptor and described it as “a dietary cannabinoid.” It is the only terpenoid known to directly activate a cannabinoid receptor. And it’s one of the reasons why green, leafy vegetables are so healthy to eat.

Terpenoids and cannabinoids both increase blood flow, enhance cortical activity, and kill respiratory pathogens, including MRSA, the antibiotic-resistant bacteria that in recent years has claimed the lives of tens of thousands of Americans. Dr. Russo’s article reports that cannabinoid-terpenoid interactions “could produce synergy with respect to treatment of pain, inflammation, depression, anxiety, addiction, epilepsy, cancer, fungal and bacterial infections.”

THC’s tricky psychoactivity. Cannabinoid-terpenoid interactions amplify the beneficial effects of cannabis while mitigating THC-induced anxiety.

The terpenoid profile can vary considerably from strain to strain. Patients who abandon a suitable strain for one with higher THCand/or CBD content may not get more relief if the terpenoid profile is significantly different.


Terpenes and the "Entourage Effect"
 

burtlancast

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What do you mean by hemp? Technical grade plant used for production of fiber?

Exactly.
I believe almost all the commercially sold CBD oil is extracted from hemp.
People have reported much higher medicinal effects from CBD oil derived from cannabis.
 

Yi at LDT

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CBD oil derived from cannabis also has MUCH higher THC and probably cbn, cbg etc. Only recently are there truly low THC strains available.

The other thing is that hemp extract contains a hell of a lot of crap that is not great for you. Everyone knows that smoking cannabis stems can cause a headache. Think about all the stems, stalks etc. extracted and concentrated into CBD oil
 

Yi at LDT

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Even with the low THC strains it's a gamble whether their seeds will produce a low THC phenotype. They are rare and often cloned.

Full disclosure, I havn't watched the video. But the terpenes in cannabis are no different from the terpenes in myrrh, lemon, pine, lavender etc. They are the same chemicals. Where are the miraculous healing effects from combining these plants?

Shared terpenes between lavendar and cannabis for example are highly estrogenic. Terpenes are powerful little molecules and they certainly arn't always benevolent.
 

Sativa

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I just think the terpenes are somewhat neglected in terms of medicinal application when talking about weed...
Yup, the aromatic terpenes contribute significant psychoactive and therapeutic properties, making them responsible for at LEAST 50% of the cannabis plants effects.
 

yerrag

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But the terpenes in cannabis are no different from the terpenes in myrrh, lemon, pine, lavender etc. They are the same chemicals. Where are the miraculous healing effects from combining these plants?

Entourage effect? There are so many kinds of terpenes in the cannabis plant alone - what I read is 140 - but they're in the different parts of the plant. In the various combinations found naturally in cannabis, how do you expect to replicate such combinations by mixing the terpenes from these plants? Perhaps you could, but at what expense?

On my experience with turpentine, which contains large amounts of alpha-pinene and beta-pinene, I've found it very cost-effective and very helpful. Twice a day, I'd apply 5 ml of it over my body. It has increased my metabolism, from a heart rate of high 60's to as high as a 100. I decided not to take it orally with sugar cubes, but to apply topically so that it bypasses the digestive system (as I have no digestive issues) and goes directly to the blood. My problem was with bacteria in my vascular system. As I have been lysing my atherosclerotic plaque, bacterial biofilm is being disrupted and bacteria gets released. I had been using doxycyline to deal with the infection, but I have successfully shifted to using turpentine for its anti-microbial effect. Its action has reduced the body's need to rely on its innate immune system, where white blood cells have to phagocytize bacteria, and in the process expend NADPH as well as anti-oxidant stores. This further supports a higher rate of mitocondrial respiration, as it isn't running early into limiting factors.

I definitely think terpenes as a class for improving our health is greatly overlooked, and I will be exploring more of it in the future. If only I could get my hands on cannabis. I'm barely scratching the surface on the beneficial effects of using terpenes.

Edit: I shouldn't have used anti-bacterial, as I think the effects can be more broad, and include virus and fungus, or possibly archaea. But I really don't know enough to be categorical to the point of exclusion.

Edit 2: Language and words are easy to use to manipulate us, as Ray Peat has said. This is so true when we compare how we react to turpentine and to flaxseed oil. Both of them used to be used as solvents/carriers for the paint industry. That association is enough for people to stop dead in their tracks when considering their use as a supplement or medicine.

Yet flaxseed oil is a very popular health food even if it's really harmful for our health, simply because it went through a name change from linseed oil into its present name of flaxseed oil. Thanks to marketing. Just as how slimeheads became a popular edible fish when the seafood industry gave it a new name: orange roughy.

But turpentine is still called turpentine. And so, it is avoided, even by many people in this more enlightened forum. The psychological effect is astounding. The programming is amazing. Even on me. I only broke out of this mold when I considered that this is a main ingredient in Vick Vaporub, and applying Vicks on my chest when I had a cough or cold in the past hasn't done anything harmful on me. Now I find that a small amount applied topically does wonders for me. Perhaps if it was priced close to cannabis, people would take notice. And a name change too.
 
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