PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

Bart1

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Understandable, but actually I think it's almost impossible to lose weight if you're obese while still eating PUFAs. At least that's my current experience. That's probably why the recommendation for sick people is to eat exclusively coconut oil and no other fats. At this point I'm probably considered obese, I have a ton of weight to lose, probably like 70-80 lbs. I kept gaining and gaining while being liberal with fats (pufa's) with no end in sight. I was eating copious butter, dairy fat, chocolate, etc, and gaining weight at an insane pace. I am hoping that now my weight will stabilize and finally start to drop. I'm hardly worried about it dropping too fast, I mean, I haven't noticed it drop at all let alone fast yet lol. I am sure I'm still eating too much caloric wise, but I have to or my temps drop. My appetite does not seem to get satiated with a normal amount of calories, even when I'm restricting PUFA's to as low as 0.5 gram in a day and getting upwards of 100 grams of SFA's.

Isn’t weight gain just a result of gut disbiosis and high stress hormones? In a environment like that the liver is unable to perform it’s functions with weight gain as a result.
 

Light

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I've been eating almost completely fat free for 2 weeks, and planning on doing it for at least another 4 weeks before I make a judgement.
Also gave up gluten. In for a penny...
In the last week I've had, from time to time, very light dizziness and blurry vision.
Anyone had similar experiences?
 

chanlaw

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I've been eating almost completely fat free for 2 weeks, and planning on doing it for at least another 4 weeks before I make a judgement.
Also gave up gluten. In for a penny...
In the last week I've had, from time to time, very light dizziness and blurry vision.
Anyone had similar experiences?
Any update
 

Light

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Any update
By the end of 6 weeks I was doing very well,
there was a lifting of brain fog and a general feeling that was pretty good, no depression, decent energy levels.
Weight loss only happened in the first 2-3 weeks and then stopped. I wasn't counting calories and was getting lots of sugar.
Once you figure out what to eat it's pretty easy to maintain.
Now i'm back to eating saturated fat, but I will probably do the very very low fat again sometime, I'll try for longer - maybe 6 months.
 

chanlaw

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By the end of 6 weeks I was doing very well,
there was a lifting of brain fog and a general feeling that was pretty good, no depression, decent energy levels.
Weight loss only happened in the first 2-3 weeks and then stopped. I wasn't counting calories and was getting lots of sugar.
Once you figure out what to eat it's pretty easy to maintain.
Now i'm back to eating saturated fat, but I will probably do the very very low fat again sometime, I'll try for longer - maybe 6 months.
Did u not get any aging or bad effects from all the pufa release into blood
 

Light

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Did u not get any aging or bad effects from all the pufa release into blood
No, nothing that I could feel anyways.
In fact my eyesight improved a little.
I was taking Niacinamide 500-1,000 mg/day the whole time, which should have prevented any excessive lipolysis.
 

GreekDemiGod

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I'm surprised how there are so few reports of people having attempted the 30 days of PUFA depletion.

Past 2 years, my diet has been very high in PUFA's. I avoided vegetable oils like the plague, but I did load up hard on all kinds of nuts, seeds, avocados and high oxalates foods. I'm wondering how much damage could this have done.

How many days would someone have to fast to deplete PUFA? 10 days would be nothing, I'd choose this. Lifting weights during every day of fasting is muscle-sparing, so I'd be doing that.

I already have a fast metabolism, so I'm not sure how could I benefit from PUFA depletion. I'm hoping to get higher androgens and higher energy levels.
 

milkboi

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I'm surprised how there are so few reports of people having attempted the 30 days of PUFA depletion.

Past 2 years, my diet has been very high in PUFA's. I avoided vegetable oils like the plague, but I did load up hard on all kinds of nuts, seeds, avocados and high oxalates foods. I'm wondering how much damage could this have done.

How many days would someone have to fast to deplete PUFA? 10 days would be nothing, I'd choose this. Lifting weights during every day of fasting is muscle-sparing, so I'd be doing that.

I already have a fast metabolism, so I'm not sure how could I benefit from PUFA depletion. I'm hoping to get higher androgens and higher energy levels.

Definitely has the potential to increase energy levels and androgens I think. I don't think 30 days is accurate for most people tho. Far from it. If you are already lean, the fasting could work. I'm going to attempt PUFA depletion (again), but this time with the help of DNP and Orlistat.
 

revenant

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I read this whole thread and was left wondering the same thing as some others:

If it takes years and years to deplete tissue PUFA and only one single meal to get back to where you started from, does this whole thing make any sense? If that's true, how is minimizing PUFA intake useful? It sounds like a losing battle.
 

GreekDemiGod

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@revenant From what I remember, only serum levels are increased back temporarily, and not tissue levels. It's not like your metabolism turns back to its PUFA times after one PUFA-rich meal.
 

milkboi

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How much would adding 20-30g of HCO and stearic acid daily with the fat solubles + a low fat diet (ca. 0,6g PUFA daily in t0tal) like proposed here slow down the depletion? Any guesses? @haidut @schultz
 

schultz

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How much would adding 20-30g of HCO and stearic acid daily with the fat solubles + a low fat diet (ca. 0,6g PUFA daily in t0tal) like proposed here slow down the depletion? Any guesses? @haidut @schultz

I don't think it will have much of an effect either way (I am guessing). When they add really high amounts of HCO to the diet it increases EFAD, but that is something like 25% of calories. But if you're talking about removal of PUFA from the body, which is not necessarily the same thing as merely increasing 20:3n-9, then I am not sure. Sorry for the non-answer lol.

This study talks about HCO and the amounts needed to increase EFAD, citing a couple older studies.

Early development of essential fatty acid deficiency in rats: fat-free vs. hydrogenated coconut oil diet. - PubMed - NCBI
"It has been proposed that the addition of saturated fat, especially hydrogenated coconut oil, to an EFAD diet accentuates the development of EFA deficiency in comparison with a fat-free diet [13,14]. The discrepancy between the results of our study and others may be related to the relative contents of HCO in the experimental diets used. The previous conclusion was based on experiments which were done primarily to obtain information on the relationship between the onset of external symptoms of EFA deficiency and tissue levels of EFAs in rat fed EFAD diets containing 25–30% HCO or in those fed a fat-free diet [15]. In the present study, the HCO diet contained only 4% HCO. Thus, the present results would suggest that feeding with a 4% HCO diet without EFA or a fat-free diet (No-fat diet) for 4 weeks equally increased the concentrations of 20:3n9 and decreased 20:4n6 and EFAs in most organ and tissues, but did not retard body growth or cause other clinical symptoms of EFA deficiency in rats."


On another note, when is Haidut releasing a mead acid supplement? :woot: That would be amazing. I think it competes with n-6 much like how n-3 does, but without the toxic side effects. I think it competes with n-3 as well. The world needs a mead acid supplement!!

This study suggests it can prevent cancer...
Dietary effects of mead acid on N-methyl-N-nitrosourea-induced mammary cancers in female Sprague-Dawley rats

This study says it can be synthesized from fungus...
Dietary (n-9) eicosatrienoic acid from a cultured fungus inhibits leukotriene B4 synthesis in rats and the effect is modified by dietary linoleic a... - PubMed - NCBI
"Thus, dietary ETrA from a biological source can accumulate in leucocytes and suppress inflammatory eicosanoid synthesis. The findings justify further studies into the biochemical and anti-inflammatory effects of dietary ETrA, which could be incorporated into palatable food additives."


If I had millions of dollars I would definitely try and bring a mead acid supplement to the market.
 

tankasnowgod

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On another note, when is Haidut releasing a mead acid supplement? :woot: That would be amazing. I think it competes with n-6 much like how n-3 does, but without the toxic side effects. I think it competes with n-3 as well. The world needs a mead acid supplement!!

Not sure a Mead acid supplement is needed. Travis suggested that Stearic Acid displaced most PUFA (especially n-6), as they are both 18 carbons long. Shorter SFAs don't seem to do this, with the exception of Palmitic, which seems to have some limited ability. Oleic Acid might have some of this ability too, as might Trans Fats like Elaidic and Vaccenic Acid.
 

gqoq

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3) Perhaps the most important, and depressing finding - even a single high PUFA meal replenished PUFA content in serum, cholesterol and tissues almost up to the levels seen before starting fat-free diets. So, after depleting PUFA make sure to avoid even a single "binge event" of restaurant food unless you are loaded up on vitamin E.

This is not what the study said, and it worries me that everyone in this thread has just jumped on your interpretation as if it's the correct one.

Monkeys that had been fed fat-free diets or coconut oil diets for 8 months had their deficit of PFA in the serum total lipid and cholesterol ester fractions corrected after a single meal containing corn oil. The elevations above base une values per sisted for several days. The PFA concen trations and the ratios of dienoic to trienoic acids in the lipids of skin, muscle, and testis changed much more slowly than did the values for serum lipids when the diets were changed from high-corn oil diets to fat-free diets, and vice versa.

So the high PFA meal changed serum numbers but not tissue numbers. Makes a lot of sense. If you guys think something sounds wrong, read the damn study. Haidut is human, too.

Another note on this thing: what carbohydrates were the monkeys eating? Pure fructose? Sucrose? Starch? Doesn't say in the study, but it seems like it'd be important.

Edit: looks like it was sucrose! EXPERIMENTAL ATHEROSCLEROSIS IN CEBUS MONKEYS (gives some background as to the monkeys' environment)
 
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schultz

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This is not what the study said, and it worries me that everyone in this thread has just jumped on your interpretation as if it's the correct one.

I don't think that's what everybody thinks.

What the study shows is that a person (or monkey) can get into an EFAD state in 30 days (or so). An EFAD state just means your body has a certain ratio of mead acid to arachidonic acid, not that all of the PUFA in your body fat has disappeared.

Total parenteral nutrition used to do the same thing in less time (2 weeks or less) because they didn't add any fat to it. Also it can be done when a person is asleep which would prevent body fat, and therefore PUFA, from being released into circulation.
 

berk

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Since removing PUFA from the body is one of the primary goals of Peatarians, naturally anything that can speed up the process of waiting at least 4 years would be highly desirable. I have been experimenting myself relentlessly with speeding that process up (as safely as possible). While searching for clues, I came across this study from 1959. It used monkeys and special diets (high PUFA or fat-free) to deplete and then replete PUFA from serum, cholesterol, and most importantly tissues. If I am reading this study right, and if monkey studies translate well to humans, I think there are some very good news for all of us. Some takeaways from the study.

1) On a fat-free diet, PUFA depletion in serum and cholesterol was daramatic and it took about 4 days to almost fully deplete PUFA.
2) In various tissues like muscle, skin and testis, PUFA depletion was slower, but still after ONLY 31 days the PUFA depletion in tissues reached the depletion levels seen in serum and cholesterol. As far as I can see PUFA levels fell to under 5% concentration in tissues. Again, this was achieved when feeding fat-free diet.
3) Perhaps the most important, and depressing finding - even a single high PUFA meal replenished PUFA content in serum, cholesterol and tissues almost up to the levels seen before starting fat-free diets. So, after depleting PUFA make sure to avoid even a single "binge event" of restaurant food unless you are loaded up on vitamin E.

Fat-free diets are unrealistic and maybe even unhealthy for many people. However, it is not hard to eat very low-fat diets with no more than 5% fat daily and feel fine. If the study translates to humans this probably means successful depletion of PUFA in as few as 2-3 months. I would appreciate it if someone else reads the study as well and tells me if I am reading this right. If this study is correct, I think it makes the Peatarian goals of being PUFA-free much more realistic. I know quite a few people that do not follow Peatarian diets ONLY b/c they are quite discouraged by the prospects of waiting 4+ years to see lasting benefits.
Anyways, please read and fire away. Figure 7 and Table 1 from the study are the most important for our purposes - i.e. tissue depletion of PUFA.

Repletion and Depletion of Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids in Cebus Monkeys

"...The reversal of PFA concentrations in muscle, skin, and testis was much slower; however, the reversal in PFA concentrations had occurred in these tissues by 31 days after the diet reversal."
let mention to all the new people here that reads this:
@tca300 has developed serieus food allergy's on this low fat diet style.
Fed Up Of Food Intolerances!
And @JanP has ruined his gallbladder.
Have Ruined My Gallbladder By Low Fat Diet, Now I Can't Get Back To Eating Fat
Also @Zachs got health complications on this extreme diet and he is start eating high fat diet again.
What i have done to cure hypo and stay lean.

So let everybody warn that this 30+ day low fat diet for depletion PUFA is certainly not without risk.
Even Ray is not advising anywhere to follow a low fat diet.

Maybe some high fat refeed every 10 day or so to give the body some fatty acids to recover is a more wiser idea (?)
 
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