Calorie-restricted Rats Live 50% Longer - What's Wrong With The Methodology?

[lampofred]

Peat's writings are sometimes sensible (to me) and at other times make no sense.

Melatonin messed with me for a while, until I understood it as staying in bright light until bedtime to avoid premature melatonin release rather than avoiding it altogether.

Interesting. I assumed his main thing was progesterone. But then maybe it's due to lowering of serotonin.

I'm generally aware serotonin can be bad. The higher amount leading to depression is new. Even when serotonin-induced depression is described, it sounds different:

"The depression associated with high serotonin is of a different variety from the classical depression, which is most familiar. The typical symptoms of anxiety, low mood, pessimism, sadness, emotional instability, etc. are missing. For that reason it often overlooked, and nothing is done about it." - Symptoms of High Serotonin

I'm also aware of serotonin inducing anxiety, but that's mainly said to be social rather than generalized anxiety.

Serotonin "cures" depression by lowering your vitality and dissociating your mind from the pain signals your body is sending out. Rocks don't experience depression because they are not alive. It's a numbing, apathy-inducing substance, not truly anti-depressant or anti-anxiety.

Anxiety, agitated depression is most likely caused by low GABA due to excess estrogen relative to progesterone.

 

[Dobbler]

Serotonin makes you hella depressed while making you also incredible numbed down, you're alive but at the same time, not. Years go by and you don't remember sh1t whats happened, only when you wake from the hibernation you can see this. Trust me. Ray Peats teachings are the best way to get out of serotonin state. Theres no other way. T3 is the ultimate powerhouse for this, but you need proper diet to make it work properly. Cypro and pregnenolone help also help.

 

[Dobbler]

Im still not out of it but i have seen some light and how it can be. Im traumatized what my life has been for the past 3 years, it's like i have not been alive at all.

 

[lampofred]

Serotonin makes you hella depressed while making you also incredible numbed down, you're alive but at the same time, not. Years go by and you don't remember sh1t whats happened, only when you wake from the hibernation you can see this.

Im traumatized what my life has been for the past 3 years, it's like i have not been alive at all.

This is the most perfect explanation for serotonin's effects I've seen. It has been the same for me for the past 3 years (since early 2016) as well. Unfortunately diet, T3, cypro, preg, prog haven't been enough for me, so I'm still trying to figure it out...

 

[LuMonty]

This is the most perfect explanation for serotonin's effects I've seen. It has been the same for me for the past 3 years (since early 2016) as well. Unfortunately diet, T3, cypro, preg, prog haven't been enough for me, so I'm still trying to figure it out...

That's where I'm at too except I have some cypro on the way and hope it works. I'll be interested to see what antibiotics do for me besides clear up a lingering infection. Honestly, the best thing I've been able to do for the symptoms is eat 3K-4K calories, especially saturated fat. Besides that, I'm baffled.

 

[Dobbler]

This is the most perfect explanation for serotonin's effects I've seen. It has been the same for me for the past 3 years (since early 2016) as well. Unfortunately diet, T3, cypro, preg, prog haven't been enough for me, so I'm still trying to figure it out...

Have you taken all of those consistently for months? Sadly the deeper you are in the rabbit hole, longer it takes to see any effect. T3 did nothing for me for the first 2-3 months.

 

[lampofred]

That's where I'm at too except I have some cypro on the way and hope it works. I'll be interested to see what antibiotics do for me besides clear up a lingering infection. Honestly, the best thing I've been able to do for the symptoms is eat 3K-4K calories, especially saturated fat. Besides that, I'm baffled.

I actually know a lot of people who started feeling this way starting early 2016. Maybe new cell towers were built or something, I don't really know what's going on.

 

[lampofred]

Have you taken all of those consistently for months? Sadly the deeper you are in the rabbit hole, longer it takes to see any effect. T3 did nothing for me for the first 2-3 months.

Diet, thyroid, and progesterone are the only things I do consistently now but I have been doing them consistently for years. They helped a lot from baseline but I'm still stuck in that numbed state.

I don't want to try preg anymore since Dr. Peat said all the sources he knows are contaminated with estrogen and I don't know about trying cyproheptadine again since apparently it's a D2 antagonist.

 

[LuMonty]

I actually know a lot of people who started feeling this way starting early 2016. Maybe new cell towers were built or something, I don't really know what's going on.

My issues are hard to pin down, but the biggest downturn was about 10 years ago. On the other hand, I have heavy power lines in my "backyard", a radiotower/water tower a short distance away, and a horde of WIFI routers around me. FWIW my ability to heal has gone down since I moved so I wouldn't doubt if what you're saying is a factor.

 

[CLASH]

I think these debates often forget the idea of quality of life. You may be able to live a long time with caloric restriction, this has yet to be proven in humans. But you probably wont feel too good doing so. Mood issue, libido issues, excessive skinniness all sound like a great way to spend my extended lifespan........

I personally would rather be muscular, have a great libido (have my d*ck work into old age), maintain a strong equanimous assertive mood and eat steak regularly and live to 80 than live to 110 being underweight, moody, having a poor libido and having to avoid a regular fat steak marbled perfectly with a large bowl of cherries on the side and a glass of grape juice. Obviously this example can go to far to the other side, where people say I’d rather eat mcdonalds my whole life and diet at 60, I mean if thats thier choice. Theres a threshold with everything, gotta choose what you want your threshold to be. 10 almonds a day with a side of lettuce or a fat steak with a large bowel of cherries

 

[Kelj]

True!....I like with a large bowel of cherries, lol!

 

[ilikecats]

@Kelj is it true that you were eating up to 10,000 calories a day while healing your metabolism? Someone said that in another thread I believe.

 

[Kelj]

@Kelj is it true that you were eating up to 10,000 calories a day while healing your metabolism? Someone said that in another thread I believe.

The highest calorie count I've mentioned is the 11,000 calories some Minnesota Starvation experiment subjects ate to recover from the semi-starvation diet of 1,650 calories the subjects had been eating for 6 months that had made them so unwell. I have also mentioned Billy Craig's 6000 calories for a year experiment which made him very skinny. I have recommended acquainting oneself with the recommended minimum calorie guidelines for age, height and gender on the edinstitute website, especially if you have been eating low calorie and have forgotten what enough food is. For myself, I ate as much food as I wanted every day to recover from the orthorexic low calorie eating that had made me very ill. I mostly never tracked calories, but out of curiosity, I occasionally made a total and ate at least 6000 calories sometimes. I advocate letting yourself eat as much as you want, whatever and whenever you want. Your body knows what it needs. Calorie requirements vary from day to day and only your body knows what is going on and what it needs. But, consistent high calorie eating will lead to eventually slimness and wellness. Emphasis on consistent.

 

[ilikecats]

@Kelj Cool! Thanks for the info.

 

[dudinator]

I actually know a lot of people who started feeling this way starting early 2016. Maybe new cell towers were built or something, I don't really know what's going on.

I think you're right on the money. For me, I've been battling an autoimmune stomach/eye issue that causes auditory hallucinations when my symptoms flare up. This all started late 2016... The only thing that makes it better is getting out of the cities. Unfortunately, I'm basically disabled right now and having a hard time making the money to get out in the first place. Life's fun, difficult to get out of cycles huh?

 

[tara]

One nagging thing: doesn't lower serotonin cause (anxiety-ridden) depression?

This one too:
Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

 

[tara]

In one post, 40% carb + 40% fat + 20% protein is mentioned. In another, low fat is better due to lowered serotonin.

In any event, the constant cycling between the same thing being good and then bad both annoys and confuses me.

People have different opinions, and contexts vary, so what will be helpful may vary from situation to situation.
Sorry you find that annoying and confusing - it's a common feature of life.
If you want to know about Peat's views, read Peat. He's changed his views on some things as he gains information over the years too, as any good scientist does, but he seems pretty consistent other than that.

 

[LucH]

Calories' restriction means eating 80-85 % of what's supposed to be needed to carburate at a standard level.
But we all know that metabolizing well influences energy level. One person is not the same than the other one (to oxidize / carburate).
Eating is not all.
LucH

 

[Goobz]

In response to the OP - there’s likely nothing wrong with the methodology. It seems to be a pretty well established finding that caloric restriction can extend lifespan.

That being said, caloric restriction is NOT fasting. And a rich and nourishing diet broken up by periodic fasting, appears to be much more beneficial. Otherwise you’re always in “breakdown” mode with none of the “rebuild” mode.

I find the RP forums to be more focused on the latter, but from what I’ve read periods of fasting are very beneficial. Beyond any effects on endotoxin or any of that stuff. Yeast flies mice and human studies all seem to corroborate this.

It’s also the natural state for humans - short periods of fasting and periods of feasting. And due to energy always being a scarce commodity, your body tends to defer repairs until there’s no food around. So if you never give it an extended fast (a few days, NOT “intermittent” fasting) then it may never get a chance to do some of those repairs.

Google Valter Longo and fasting mimicking diet for more info.There’s a periodic fasting study showing regeneration of certain organs which have hitherto been thought lost forever, such as the pancreatic B cells in type 1 diabetics.

 

[Curiousman]

If calorie restriction works, we would see homeless or people who lives on places with lack of food as African Continent, living 100 years or more than it.