Bernie Sanders Defends Democratic Socialism

InChristAlone

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Haha, I was mostly joking, so that's funny that there actually is a correlation. I suppose it's possible. Let's face it - taller men are considered more desirable/attractive on average and attractive people generally are more successful in life due to the way they are treated by other people, given favoritism etc. This goes for beautiful women too.

As for the capital comment - Everyone can invest, I already stated how its possible even on a 14k income. Sure you'll start smaller, and take a little longer, but the beauty of compounding interest is as long as you are persistent and invest in index funds (average of 10% return), it'll grow eventually with persistence. If someone refuses to look for better work and stays at a 14k income job their whole life, they can still save 950,000$ in about 35 years of work (the length of many peoples' careers)

Here's what the growth schedule might look like for this person

View attachment 13696
What investments do you recommend? I don't really like the thought of investing in stocks from companies I find egregious, but I know our 401k probably has some.
 

Cirion

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What investments do you recommend? I don't really like the thought of investing in stocks from companies I find egregious, but I know our 401k probably has some.

Index funds have the highest reward/risk ratio IMO. Historically they get around 10% rate of return, and are pretty safe because you spread the risk among hundreds of stocks. I am not sure what all stocks they hold, you'd have to look into it, but yeah, many of them likely do hold some part of the fund in stocks like amazon, facebook, or others that some people may not like all that much. It's kinda risky to try to pick stocks yourself for the most part though so for now, except for my foray into cryptocurrency, am sticking to index funds like S+P and Russell. Even with crypto, though, I'm thinking maybe I will spread my risk by getting some of several cryptos and not just put it all in bitcoin. Maybe some in bitcoin, some in etherum, some in litecoin etc... Mutual funds are okay but index funds have historically always outperformed mutual funds.
 

Cirion

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Meh, the sky is always falling depending upon who you talk to. This is exactly the kind of talk that is discussed in the book Rich dad, poor dad and other books. In fact, economic crashes are the BEST time to buy/invest because you can buy stocks at heavy discounts, and make several hundred % returns in a matter of a few years. While others are panicking and selling, buy it all up at discount and reap the massive profits. :cool: The trick is not to make emotional based selling decisions and hold/buy instead. "All profits are made when you buy, not when you sell". Words to consider/live by.
 

ShotTrue

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Haha, I was mostly joking, so that's funny that there actually is a correlation. I suppose it's possible. Let's face it - taller men are considered more desirable/attractive on average and attractive people generally are more successful in life due to the way they are treated by other people, given favoritism etc. This goes for beautiful women too.

As for the capital comment - Everyone can invest, I already stated how its possible even on a 14k income. Sure you'll start smaller, and take a little longer, but the beauty of compounding interest is as long as you are persistent and invest in index funds (average of 10% return), it'll grow eventually with persistence. If someone refuses to look for better work and stays at a 14k income job their whole life, they can still save 950,000$ in about 35 years of work (the length of many peoples' careers)

Here's what the growth schedule might look like for this person

View attachment 13696
Idk, I thought the average return of index funds was like 7%, counting inflation or something.
I agree though, it's funny because a lot of people are terrified of investing or simply do not have the character or skill set to take risks. Index funds aren't really risky though. Mainly they see it go in the red and sell, which guarantees a loss for themselves.
I was just messing with you about height
 

ShotTrue

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@sugarbabe unless you are a multimillionaire, your investment won't really have an impact on the compani'es actions. Investing is all about building your own wealth, you can't shirk away from investing in a company you don't like when it's profitable. Like, I care nothing about marijuana but made 10% returns in the Canadian weed market which is a mild profit considering the growth there.
Idk about 401ks myself, but what's the return? It's wise to increase your money faster and learn how to invest yourself imo
I made 30% returns on Tesla buying the "dip" when they took a PR hit because Elon smoked on Joe Rogan's podcast.
 

Cirion

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Idk, I thought the average return of index funds was like 7%, counting inflation or something.
I agree though, it's funny because a lot of people are terrified of investing or simply do not have the character or skill set to take risks. Index funds aren't really risky though. Mainly they see it go in the red and sell, which guarantees a loss for themselves.
I was just messing with you about height

Yes 10% before inflation or 7% after.

Rich dad poor dad talks about this in his book. From an early age we are taught to be good employees via school, and then taught to fear failure from grades in school. A lot of successful business owners never went to college and in some cases were even high school dropouts.

Yeah index funds are the safest investments which produce the most reward relative to their risk.
 

ShotTrue

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Meh, the sky is always falling depending upon who you talk to. This is exactly the kind of talk that is discussed in the book Rich dad, poor dad and other books. In fact, economic crashes are the BEST time to buy/invest because you can buy stocks at heavy discounts, and make several hundred % returns in a matter of a few years. While others are panicking and selling, buy it all up at discount and reap the massive profits. :cool: The trick is not to make emotional based selling decisions and hold/buy instead. "All profits are made when you buy, not when you sell". Words to consider/live by.
If the world collapsed from EMTs etc, start collecting bottlecaps (fallout) or finding something of value like guns. There won't be a state in human existence in the next 100 years you won't find something profitable to invest in or sell.
I don't remember the story, but someone urged a hospital (orphanage?) to invest its funds in a company during the Great Depression and it made them quite rich. There's always a window of opportunity, and to get lucky you need to potion yourself to get lucky. Read, research, talk, listen, take risks.
 

ShotTrue

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Yes 10% before inflation or 7% after.

Rich dad poor dad talks about this in his book. From an early age we are taught to be good employees via school, and then taught to fear failure from grades in school. A lot of successful business owners never went to college and in some cases were even high school dropouts.

Yeah index funds are the safest investments which produce the most reward relative to their risk.
I've read that book. 10% is a huge difference from 7% though, look at the compound interest that's 100,000s of dollars.
Index funds are also slow, that's right they are relatively risk free over time but 7% doesn't compare to 6000% like I saw Bitcoin 2 go up in appreciation.
 

Cirion

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I've read that book. 10% is a huge difference from 7% though, look at the compound interest that's 100,000s of dollars.
Index funds are also slow, that's right they are relatively risk free over time but 7% doesn't compare to 6000% like I saw Bitcoin 2 go up in appreciation.

Yeah index funds won't make you a millionaire overnight, but they are the nice reliable fallback options.

Yeah I wish I was in Bitcoin back when it was new. I still think Bitcoin has massive potential even at its current position which is why I'm still banking on it. For two main reasons.

1.) There can only be 21 million bitcoin. We are approaching that cap. By definition, if demand continues to increase but supply does not, then value will go up. This alone is a strong reason to invest.

2.) I think that the world is probably going to move to a global currency, and this currency quite probably will be cryptos. Everything will be digitized in the future, including money.
 

ShotTrue

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Yeah index funds won't make you a millionaire overnight, but they are the nice reliable fallback options.

Yeah I wish I was in Bitcoin back when it was new. I still think Bitcoin has massive potential even at its current position which is why I'm still banking on it. For two main reasons.

1.) There can only be 21 million bitcoin. We are approaching that cap. By definition, if demand continues to increase but supply does not, then value will go up. This alone is a strong reason to invest.

2.) I think that the world is probably going to move to a global currency, and this currency quite probably will be cryptos. Everything will be digitized in the future, including money.
Great point. I'm just a poor early 20s plebe, but I put $100 into btc just for that reason. A great idea to dollar cost average a % of your earnings into btc
 

Cirion

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Great point. I'm just a poor early 20s plebe, but I put $100 into btc just for that reason. A great idea to dollar cost average a % of your earnings into btc

There's supposed to be the launching of some big crypto market platform or something on July 22 I believe. Some guy likened it to men landing on the moon on Apollo 11. I don't know how much smoke he was puffing, but it might be wise to get as much as you can in before July 22 if he's even partly right. Plus Facebook is launching their Libra next year, which is bound to increase values of Crypto dramatically given how big of a name Facebook is.
 

Cirion

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Yeah but what happened after that, oops it tanked. Highly doubtful most people sold near that top.

Yes this is the other common mistake people make. You should cut your winnings, and sell and not get greedy. The peaks typically last roughly a month. So you can safely wait maybe a week or two after it goes up a lot and sell once the % increase / day stalls beyond a certain level. This has been its pattern the last 7 times it peaked. If you miss your chance, you can always hold until the next peak. The peaks have always been rapid, so you know when it's peaking. Each peak has been at least 4x the previous peak, so the next peak will likely be at least $80,000.
 

LUH 3417

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I am with Cirion about all this, there is more to taxes than income tax, the medicare and social security tax is ridiculous. I don't need to pay the government to give it back to me when I retire. Maybe some people need it because they SUCK at saving money, but that's their problem not mine. We saved money even on a very low income for 3 people.

The only thing that needs to change is the amount of money required if you need to be in the hospital say from a broken bone, serious infection or other care needed, I mean even the healthiest will need something in their lifetime, so without insurance the costs add up like wildfire making insurance almost necessary. I HATE THAT. We have health insurance for the kids and have never actually used it, other than some check ups at the doctor but they didn't really need to go we just want to have a paper trail. It's not fair for people like us to pay thousands of dollars for insurance just in case something catastrophic happens because healthcare in the US is egregious. But it also wouldn't be fair to be taxed thousands of dollars a year to pay for other people's medical bills. It's just a mess. Private healthcare that goes across state lines is probably the best answer with the way things are at right now.
Social security is not a retirement fund. If your husband died and you became parapalegic at 20 you’d be crying for social security. It’s Disability insurance for ANY age, not just old age.

I had a friend whose mom was hospitalized. She had dementia and could no longer self administer insulin. She had insurance but since it was a psychosocial problem she could no longer stay in the hospital. They told him his only option was to privately hire a nurse, which insurance would not pay for, to be with her all day and administer the insulin and monitor her blood glucose. What would you do in that situation? Do you have enough savings to include an RNs salary in case you become diabetic and demented?
 
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vulture

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Living in an Ayn-Rand eutopic phantasy where you just abolish all government institutions and everything will be peachy is all good and fine, but there millions of Americans living in a real crony-capitalist-dystopia right now, and I think they prefer a real alternative.
Coming from Venezuela, which tried “democratic socialism” for decades and ended up in, as expected, socialism, I think it’s stupid to go that way.
If you don’t trust a corporation, let’s see how can you trust a government with more power, firepower monopoly and more things to mess with in hands of corporations you are afraid of.
 

vulture

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True, and they also greatly intensify the fractional reserve policies of banks by lending them money whenever they need it. Even if these spectacularly risky buisinesses fail, they just bail them out by creating new money out of thin air.
Monopoly of the money is usually tied to inflation, freedom to choose the currency you want to trade and save usually keeps inflation away. Currencies have to compete and saving value is a key factor, if you start printing too much, no ones gonna want yours
 

yerrag

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A good analysis of the Sanders speech...Bernie Sanders’ Economic Bill of Rights

It's a good analysis of it. Even if it follows forth from FDR, it doesn't make the plan golden.

What Bernie's plan doesn't tell you is that for all these "rights" to be given, other rights have to be taken away.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Nothing comes for free. You get something but you must give up something.

What is the tradeoff? You just make it more difficult for small business to start, and with no small business, there won't be larger businesses for the small business to grow into. Who will be giving jobs? If businesses aren't there to give jobs, will the government step in and give jobs? Tel me how that works. Didn't the government overpay and overpromise its employees, who find that their pension plans are unfunded? Promises unkept. Hell, even our social security system is projected to be bankrupt.

Then you have to ask, why does something need to be free when it's affordable? If keeping yourself healthy isn't expensive, why clamor to have it free? Why doesn't Sanders run on the platform to destroy the medical and health insurance scam? Tied in to this are predator lawyers and their lawsuits, adding heavily to the cost to doctors, and downstream to patients? Making healthcare insurance free doesn't mean no one's paying for it? The government will, and the taxpayer will too. Since the medical establishment gives quack medicine and surgeries, do you expect them to be cured or to get more sick? So year in and year, the cost will simply balloon. Is problem solved? It has worsened.

Also ask, why is college education so expensive? Why is a college education even needed? Read: https://smile.amazon.com/Nearly-Fre...es+hugh+smith&qid=1561078183&s=gateway&sr=8-7 (sorry, it's not a free ebook) There are so many unemployed or underemployed graduates who are struggling because of student loans, but it's not because of the student loans that they can't find jobs, it's that an expensive piece of paper doesn't guarantee you jobs. So, will making that piece of paper free give them jobs? Giving free college education is a waste of limited resources.

I could go on and on. But you get the idea.

Look at Singapore. It is founded on very socialist ideas. But it has very low tax rates. It is booming. It's very efficient in using capital, whether by the government or by its private citizens. The government gets enough from tax revenues to fund infrastructure and where it gives free college education, it gives only to a limited few, who can make use of it fully and when they graduate, they becoming productive and bring value to the state. The earnings of private citizenships are plowed back into the economy, into productive enterprises that can give high-paying jobs to its citizens. Is it no wonder that Dyson is moving its headquarters to Singapore, given all this?

Would you rather find a future in a place like Singapore or a country that promises you many free things yet don't have the wherewithal to give these to you and make you secure? Would the citizens of Singapore elect a Bernie to be their leader?

One thing to think about is this seemingly arcade idea to be patriotic. The less is said about it, the more you see it at work. All this patriotic and un-American and American bull**** you hear of in the US just really shows how unpatriotic really our politicians and corporations and businesses are. All the lobbying for pork barrel, for tax breaks, tax credits making the tax code unintelligible just shows how much is wasted on selfish interests. Interests with the public and common good be damned. And what is against the common good is unpatriotic. Think about it. Meanwhile, Singapore doesn't bandy about how patriotic its people sre. They just live it. And they prosper. But life in Singapore is, would you say, boring? So there, that's the tradeoff!
 
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ShotTrue

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There's supposed to be the launching of some big crypto market platform or something on July 22 I believe. Some guy likened it to men landing on the moon on Apollo 11. I don't know how much smoke he was puffing, but it might be wise to get as much as you can in before July 22 if he's even partly right. Plus Facebook is launching their Libra next year, which is bound to increase values of Crypto dramatically given how big of a name Facebook is.
Haven't heard anything about it, thanks. Libra, what a joke considering what Facebook did with social media data
 

Cirion

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Social security is not a retirement fund. If your husband died and you became parapalegic at 20 you’d be crying for social security. It’s Disability insurance for ANY age, not just old age.

I had a friend whose mom was hospitalized. She had dementia and could no longer self administer insulin. She had insurance but since it was a psychosocial problem she could no longer stay in the hospital. They told him his only option was to privately hire a nurse, which insurance would not pay for, to be with her all day and administer the insulin and monitor her blood glucose. What would you do in that situation? Do you have enough savings to include an RNs salary in case you become diabetic and demented?

I know your comment wasn't directed towards me, but there's a very simple answer to this.

Long term care insurance. It's useful for precisely the situation you have presented, and you can get several $M of protection. I haven't yet looked into it, but from what my coworker has told me, the rates are a lot lower when you're young so if you want to get it then, I am willing to bet it is significantly cheaper than having the government do it, because whatever the government can do, the private sector can do cheaper. Always.
 
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