TocoVit - Liquid Vitamin E From Wheat Germ Oil

[haidut]

I took a break from tocovit for a while. I restarted it a week ago or so. I went from 2 drops up to 10. I must say I've been under estimating tocovit.
It gives me deep sleep and non-stop energy the next day.
Since I minimize steroid supplements, I think I will keep this one closer to me. I read somewhere that it is a very good thyroid mimetic.
Anyway, just putting my feedback out there. Do not under estimate it.

Amazing, thanks so much for sharing!

 

[inurendotoxin]

I heart Tocovit (and all things Haidut in general), but it does get pricey as a regular purchase, esp after shipping costs (I am based in the UK).

I have about 1/4 left of my current bottle. So in an ongoing quest to find some more affordable equivalent (ie, specifically Wheat Germ Oil-based Vitamin E), I stumbled upon this curiosity:


Seems to be pure WGO, but also claims to be 'A good source of Omega-3 fatty acids', and something called Octacosanol.


A similar product I found claims to be Vitamin E derived from 'cereal germ'. I contacted the seller, but they could neither confirm to me the IU concentration of the product, or if it was Omega-3 'free'....

Naturally I know nothing of extracting Vitamin E from Wheat Germ Oil, or any other oil (soybean?) for that matter. But I do know that I want to be nowhere near PUFA, so I guess this leads me to 2 questions:

1. Is Tocovit a 'good source of Omega 3?' ( I assume not, but in that case....)
2. How is the Vit E isolated from the other fatty acids in WGO in this process?

Okay, maybe 3 questions....

3. Can I assume some protection from PUFA if I only apply topically?

Any and all insights welcome.

 

[haidut]

I heart Tocovit (and all things Haidut in general), but it does get pricey as a regular purchase, esp after shipping costs (I am based in the UK).

I have about 1/4 left of my current bottle. So in an ongoing quest to find some more affordable equivalent (ie, specifically Wheat Germ Oil-based Vitamin E), I stumbled upon this curiosity:
View attachment 13593

Seems to be pure WGO, but also claims to be 'A good source of Omega-3 fatty acids', and something called Octacosanol.


A similar product I found claims to be Vitamin E derived from 'cereal germ'. I contacted the seller, but they could neither confirm to me the IU concentration of the product, or if it was Omega-3 'free'....

Naturally I know nothing of extracting Vitamin E from Wheat Germ Oil, or any other oil (soybean?) for that matter. But I do know that I want to be nowhere near PUFA, so I guess this leads me to 2 questions:

1. Is Tocovit a 'good source of Omega 3?' ( I assume not, but in that case....)
2. How is the Vit E isolated from the other fatty acids in WGO in this process?

Okay, maybe 3 questions....

3. Can I assume some protection from PUFA if I only apply topically?

Any and all insights welcome.

None of the products you found is comparable to TocoVit. They are both actually oils. Just look at the color of the second bottle. The liquid inside is almost transparent. Any liquid with decent amount of tocopherols in it should be deep amber to slight reddish color. They probably do have some vitamin E inside them but it is hard to say how much. All in all, these are just oil products with possible some vitamin E and other residuals inside. But the majority is likely oil and since it is supposedly WGO then is mostly PUFA.
TocoVit has no oils aside from the little MCT we add to make it flow more easily out of the bottle. It is 100% mixed tocopherols extracted from WGO. The PUFA and other oils in the WGO were removed with CO2 supercritical extraction/distillation process and the only thing left was the mixed tocopherols and policosanol. There is no omega-3 in TocoVit, none whatsoever. Again, all oils were removed leaving only the long-chain fatty alcohols known as policosanol.
Depending on how much you apply, TocoVit may also offer systemic protection from PUFA. If we assume conservatively transdermal absorption in the range 25%, then applying 6-8 drops daily should get enough vitamin E into the blood to have decent anti-PUFA effect.

 

[inurendotoxin]

None of the products you found is comparable to TocoVit. They are both actually oils. Just look at the color of the second bottle. The liquid inside is almost transparent. Any liquid with decent amount of tocopherols in it should be deep amber to slight reddish color. They probably do have some vitamin E inside them but it is hard to say how much. All in all, these are just oil products with possible some vitamin E and other residuals inside. But the majority is likely oil and since it is supposedly WGO then is mostly PUFA.
TocoVit has no oils aside from the little MCT we add to make it flow more easily out of the bottle. It is 100% mixed tocopherols extracted from WGO. The PUFA and other oils in the WGO were removed with CO2 supercritical extraction/distillation process and the only thing left was the mixed tocopherols and policosanol. There is no omega-3 in TocoVit, none whatsoever. Again, all oils were removed leaving only the long-chain fatty alcohols known as policosanol.
Depending on how much you apply, TocoVit may also offer systemic protection from PUFA. If we assume conservatively transdermal absorption in the range 25%, then applying 6-8 drops daily should get enough vitamin E into the blood to have decent anti-PUFA effect.

Thanks Haidut. I assumed as much!
I guess the price alone there is too good to be true. I currently mix 6-8 drops Tocovit in my coffee at home since my mum spoonfeeds me PUFA... I go through it fast though.

 

[Amazoniac]

@Amazoniac @Jon Do you guys have any more insight into the strange reactions like dizziness/fatigue/lack of concentration to prolonged vitamin E intake? This happened to me about a year ago when taking Unique E at 400iu almost daily for a month. It took a while for it to subside.

Depending on the intensity of exercise or sun exposure, they can be significant sources of stress, which will use up antioxidants. If you only provide vitamin E, it will either force the body to deplete the others further or leave longer-lived fatty radicals around.

The B-vitamins have to be present, especially niacin and riboflavin.

Were you getting enough and balanced proteid back then? Glycine? Cysteine?
Selenium? Magnesium?

If we consider that our requirements for vitamin C are higher than for vitamin E, it's senseless to shift the ratio in disfavor of C. 400 IU of vitamin E is about 270 mg, yet some people barely obtain this much C. It isn't surprising then if problems arise from this.

If vit K is supplemented alone, I suspect that it's preferable to rely more on phylloquinone and less on menaquinones because the effective dose is reduced, the plant form is converted on demand and a bit of the others won't be upsetting to vitamin E.
For topical use or greater doses, I think that it's better to use mk-4 to make sure that there are no starving tissues; wherever it's antagonized, there will be a steady repleting stream to be utilized right away. I have no idea why this simple combination isn't more popular, what we usually find is gurus taking them away from each other or along with the toxins, rarely just these two together.

- Coenzyme Q and vitamin E need each other as antioxidants

 

[jmojo]

Depending on the intensity of exercise or sun exposure, they can be significant sources of stress, which will use up antioxidants. If you only provide vitamin E, it will either force the body to deplete the others further or leave longer-lived fatty radicals around.

The B-vitamins have to be present, especially niacin and riboflavin.

Were you getting enough and balanced proteid back then? Glycine? Cysteine?
Selenium? Magnesium?

If we consider that our requirements for vitamin C are higher than for vitamin E, it's senseless to shift the ratio in disfavor of C. 400 IU of vitamin E is about 270 mg, yet some people barely obtain this much C. It isn't surprising then if problems arise from this.

If vit K is supplemented alone, I suspect that it's preferable to rely more on phylloquinone and less on menaquinones because the effective dose is reduced, the plant form is converted on demand and a bit of the others won't be upsetting to vitamin E.
For topical use or greater doses, I think that it's better to use mk-4 to make sure that there are no starving tissues; wherever it's antagonized, there will be a steady repleting stream to be utilized right away. I have no idea why this simple combination isn't more popular, what we usually find is gurus taking them away from each other or along with the toxins, rarely just these two together.

- Coenzyme Q and vitamin E need each other as antioxidants

Interesting, thanks for the reply!

 

[Mauritio]

@haidut did you hear of anyone beeing allergic to this product ? and if yes is there any way to reverse this ?
after i take it i start to sneeze and get itchy also my face swells a little bit i get darker circles under my eyes and my eyes get more red .

 

[haidut]

@haidut did you hear of anyone beeing allergic to this product ? and if yes is there any way to reverse this ?
after i take it i start to sneeze and get itchy also my face swells a little bit i get darker circles under my eyes and my eyes get more red .

No allergy reports so far. What you describe sounds a lot more like intestinal irritation, which vitamin E is known to cause in some people, than allergy.

 

[Mauritio]

No allergy reports so far. What you describe sounds a lot more like intestinal irritation, which vitamin E is known to cause in some people, than allergy.

So is there anything i can Do about it? Because I would still like to use it as I do get symptoms of lowered prolactin and estrogen that I haven't got like that from other vendors ...

The dosage was 6-8 drops topically

 

[Jon]

Depending on the intensity of exercise or sun exposure, they can be significant sources of stress, which will use up antioxidants. If you only provide vitamin E, it will either force the body to deplete the others further or leave longer-lived fatty radicals around.

The B-vitamins have to be present, especially niacin and riboflavin.

Were you getting enough and balanced proteid back then? Glycine? Cysteine?
Selenium? Magnesium?

If we consider that our requirements for vitamin C are higher than for vitamin E, it's senseless to shift the ratio in disfavor of C. 400 IU of vitamin E is about 270 mg, yet some people barely obtain this much C. It isn't surprising then if problems arise from this.

If vit K is supplemented alone, I suspect that it's preferable to rely more on phylloquinone and less on menaquinones because the effective dose is reduced, the plant form is converted on demand and a bit of the others won't be upsetting to vitamin E.
For topical use or greater doses, I think that it's better to use mk-4 to make sure that there are no starving tissues; wherever it's antagonized, there will be a steady repleting stream to be utilized right away. I have no idea why this simple combination isn't more popular, what we usually find is gurus taking them away from each other or along with the toxins, rarely just these two together.

- Coenzyme Q and vitamin E need each other as antioxidants

Man you always come through with great explanations! That makes a ton of sense. I exercise a lot and get a lot of uvb so perhaps that had a lot to do with why the dizziness hit me so hard on vit E. I do have a great diet and am usually in ample supply of b’s and C but maybe when it comes right down to it my stress load coupled with vit E intake was just too much for my antioxidant influx to handle.

 

[haidut]

So is there anything i can Do about it? Because I would still like to use it as I do get symptoms of lowered prolactin and estrogen that I haven't got like that from other vendors ...

The dosage was 6-8 drops topically

Hhhm, if it was topical then it should not cause issues. Maybe you can try taking some niacinamide or aspirin orally about 30min before you apply the TocoVit.

 

[Mauritio]

Hhhm, if it was topical then it should not cause issues. Maybe you can try taking some niacinamide or aspirin orally about 30min before you apply the TocoVit.

I think it was because I was applying some drops directly on my stomach , because today I applied on my chest and had a firmer less saggy chest and no or very few allergenic symptoms. Or maybe I just got used to it I dont know...

 

[Amazoniac]

maybe when it comes right down to it my stress load coupled with vit E intake was just too much for my antioxidant influx to handle

Sun exposure should increase copper requirements due to the increased need for antioxidants due to the stress, for skin repair, from increased metabolism, melatonin synthesis, and so on with possibilities.

The combination of just vitamin E and mk-4 is underestimated and their ratio is overlooked. I don't know what a good starting place would be, but for someone experiencing issues with it, I would favor topical use to avoid the indigestion confounder and its potential interference with K adsorption in spite of them being present in what seems to be balanced amounts. Due to the problems, it's preferable to fix K at a given amount that is comfortable and start incrementing vitamin E on next applications until the good effect is maximized. Th3n, it's a matter of figuring out if the ratio stays the same regardless of their combined high or low intakes.

If the person is not willing to experiment, just tag Constatine and ask for the truth.

 

[Kray]

Depending on the intensity of exercise or sun exposure, they can be significant sources of stress, which will use up antioxidants. If you only provide vitamin E, it will either force the body to deplete the others further or leave longer-lived fatty radicals around.

The B-vitamins have to be present, especially niacin and riboflavin.

Were you getting enough and balanced proteid back then? Glycine? Cysteine?
Selenium? Magnesium?

If we consider that our requirements for vitamin C are higher than for vitamin E, it's senseless to shift the ratio in disfavor of C. 400 IU of vitamin E is about 270 mg, yet some people barely obtain this much C. It isn't surprising then if problems arise from this.

If vit K is supplemented alone, I suspect that it's preferable to rely more on phylloquinone and less on menaquinones because the effective dose is reduced, the plant form is converted on demand and a bit of the others won't be upsetting to vitamin E.
For topical use or greater doses, I think that it's better to use mk-4 to make sure that there are no starving tissues; wherever it's antagonized, there will be a steady repleting stream to be utilized right away. I have no idea why this simple combination isn't more popular, what we usually find is gurus taking them away from each other or along with the toxins, rarely just these two together.

- Coenzyme Q and vitamin E need each other as antioxidants

Since you seem to know a lot about the quinones, can you tell me- can CoQ10 (ubiquinone) be used in place of any form of K to be used in tandem with vitamin E?
Thanks!

 

[Amazoniac]

Since you seem to know a lot about the quinones, can you tell me- can CoQ10 (ubiquinone) be used in place of any form of K to be used in tandem with vitamin E?
Thanks!

I don't. But since we can synthesize ubiquinone and still need to consume vitamin K, this suggests to me that it can't replace it, yet it's claimed that the opposite can occur (not if it's a matter of dosage):
- Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

 

[ilikecats]

@haidut just got some tocovit today but I was a little put off by the smell it was giving off. Is that normal? I thought that the new one shouldn’t smell. Is it possible I got some of the old batch?

 

[Kray]

I don't. But since we can synthesize ubiquinone and still need to consume vitamin K, this suggests to me that it can't replace it, yet it's claimed that the opposite can occur (not if it's a matter of dosage):
- Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

You are more well informed than I! Thanks, I think I remember reading that before, now that you mention it. Would you think then CoQ10 is redundant as a supplement if one supplements something like Kuinone or some other like it?

 

[haidut]

@haidut just got some tocovit today but I was a little put off by the smell it was giving off. Is that normal? I thought that the new one shouldn’t smell. Is it possible I got some of the old batch?

It does have a faint smell but it is nothing compared to how the previous version smelled. The purification process removes all unwanted ingredients but sometimes there is a faint smell left. I have not had any complaints about the new version in terms of effects so the smell is not really indicative of spoilage and in fact TocoVit can probably stay unspoiled for several years at room temp but FDA regulations require us advertise with no more than 12 months of shelf life.

 

[ilikecats]

@haidut okay cool. Thanks!

 

[BingDing]

It's kind of funny, in the '70s (as the hippies were in decline) wheat germ got some good press as an antioxidant and I ate it for a while, you couldn't miss that distinctive smell. When I got my first bottle of Tocovit I thought "Cool beans, this is the good stuff", LOL. I didn't know what an antioxidant was and nobody had even heard of a tocopherol, much less that the vitamin E was different from the wheat germ oil and the PUFAs.

Scientists have figured out an incredible number of things just in my lifetime. I'm so thankful for independent scholars like RP and the people on the RP Forum for helping us all with it.