Vitamin C Supplements, Heavy Metal Contamination, Ray Peat

[Logan-]

Ray Peat said:

"Over the next 20 years, my own increased sensitivity to synthetic ascorbate led me to look for such reactions in others. The same people who reacted to it often reacted similarly to riboflavin and rutin, which were also made from cornstarch by oxidation. I ascribed the reaction to some industrial contaminant that they had in common, possibly the heavy metals introduced with the sulfuric acid. The heavy metal contamination of synthetic ascorbate is so great that one 500 mg tablet dissolved in a liter of water produces free radicals at a rate that would require a killing dose of x-rays to equal. The only clean and safe vitamin C now available is that in fresh fruits, meats, etc. The commercial stuff is seriously dangerous."

I was looking at Labdoor's VITAMIN C RANKINGS and thought maybe the vitamin C supplements don't have the same problems anymore. Any thoughts on this?

 

[managing]

Interesting link. I have the Dr. Best w/ Quali C which appears to be the third best.

My understanding (from other threads on these forums) is that the Quali-C is produced in the same way as the Vit C Peat consumed in the 50s. I am sure it is much better than the sythetic ascorbate that RP references in the quote. Whether he would consider it acceptable or not, I am uncertain.

 

[Cirion]

I use https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002J0NRNQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which is a non-corn source.

 

[lollipop]

Interesting link. I have the Dr. Best w/ Quali C which appears to be the third best.

I read it that Quali-C is second best for quality. Interesting. It is the one I take.

 

[Logan-]

Quali-C seems good.

 

[Kray]

I read it that Quali-C is second best for quality. Interesting. It is the one I take.

Me too, 3-4 g on an empty stomach before breakfast- always away from iron-containing foods.

 

[Logan-]

@Travis, could you share your opinion on vitamin C supplements, and Ray Peat's opinion about them. Do you supplement with vitamin C?

 

[Logan-]

Vitamin C Is An Endotoxin Antagonist And Can Reduce Cortisol And Inflammation

Products mentioned so far:

C-Salts COA
https://www.amazon.com/C-Salts®-Buffered-Vitamin-Powder-1000mg/dp/B002K9N6Y6?th=1

Vitamin C as ascorbic acid 16 oz. - FINE POWDER

 

[Logan-]

Vitamin C supplements with the fewest additives - Toxinless

 

[Logan-]

I bought this one: https://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best-Vitamin-Quali-C-Scotland/dp/B005CD3J4O




Dan Wich here to help ascenzo • a year ago

If it's the "Quali-C" based source I'm finding when searching, they seemed like one of the better options (I think there was some heavy metal testing standards they followed).

Vitamin C supplements with the fewest additives - Toxinless


About Quali®-C

Vitamin C is an essential health nutrient, with many important functions in the body, like immune-system stimulation, anti-allergy, and anti-oxidant, tissue/wound healing - as well as aiding everything from iron absorption to eye health.

DSM is the last and only Western producer of vitamin C. All our vitamin C is produced in a world-class DSM-owned facility in Dalry, Scotland. In fact, DSM/Roche was the first company to synthesise vitamin C back in 1938, and has been a leading producer for over 75 years.

We offer the most complete range of pure vitamin C crystals and product forms worldwide, suitable for nearly every type of food/supplement/beverage application.

Quali®-C is the world’s first branded vitamin C, and buying it guarantees you the peace of mind you can only get from the best supplier.

About Quali-C

 

[Logan-]

This is what @Dan Wich wrote about vitamin C supplements in his website:

Why no synthetic ascorbic acid?
Smart-guy Ray Peat has expressed concern over ascorbic acid's reactivity in the presence of even trace heavy metals. I think that concern is based on research by Garry R. Buettner and Beth Anne Jurkiewicz, including conclusions like "...trace levels of transition metals are significant players in ascorbate oxidation as well as in the metal-catalyzed Haber-Weiss reaction, often referred to as the superoxide-driven Fenton reaction. Thus, for experiments in which low concentrations of catalytic metals are an important determinant of experimental results, these metals must be sequestered in an inactive form or removed from the reaction mixture."

I won't pretend to be bright enough to understand that research or how it might apply in normal human consumption rather than chemistry experiments, but to be on the safe side I'm now only suggesting food-based vitamin C supplements.

Vitamin C supplements with the fewest additives - Toxinless

 

[burtlancast]

I second the Quali-C comments from above: in my experience, VitC supplements like ACEROLA (supposed to be non synthetic vit c, but containing 90% of synthetic Vit C) or preparations of aspirin with Vit C give me headaches within 10 hours.

I've tried Quali-C and it's the only brand so far who suits with my brains.

 

[Braveheart]

I second the Quali-C comments from above: in my experience, VitC supplements like ACEROLA (supposed to be non synthetic vit c, but containing 90% of synthetic Vit C) or preparations of aspirin with Vit C give me headaches within 10 hours.

I've tried Quali-C and it's the only brand so far who suits with my brains.

 

[Dave Clark]

I second the Quali-C comments from above: in my experience, VitC supplements like ACEROLA (supposed to be non synthetic vit c, but containing 90% of synthetic Vit C) or preparations of aspirin with Vit C give me headaches within 10 hours.

I've tried Quali-C and it's the only brand so far who suits with my brains.

Good quality

 

[TeaRex14]

PureBulk has the best C product I've tried. No ingredients other than vitamin C itself. Negligible amounts of lead contamination too, which I think is a concern for many C products. Here's the certificate analysis of the product.

 

[Dave Clark]

I second the Quali-C comments from above: in my experience, VitC supplements like ACEROLA (supposed to be non synthetic vit c, but containing 90% of synthetic Vit C) or preparations of aspirin with Vit C give me headaches within 10 hours.

I've tried Quali-C and it's the only brand so far who suits with my brains.

A quality organic acerola powder that is legit can be found by many suppliers, I get mine from Z Natural. One thing I have read lately is that some people are having difficulty with camu powder as a vitamin C source, and it makes me wonder if some of the natural whole food vitamin C isn't more problematic than the synthetic. Although, guys like Morley Robbins promotes the use of whole food vitamin C, saying synthetic C messes with ceruloplasmin, copper, etc. I suppose each person has to experiment to see how their body reacts. Whole food vitamins can have heavy metals as well as synthetic, so I believe you should buy from companies that do proper analysis.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Supplement safety (595/1474)

"In 1953, a few small tablets of ascorbic acid completely cured my poison oak and I never got it again though I worked in the woods every summer for several years. But in the late 1950s, I had cold-like symtoms for a few days after I took a 500 mg. tablet, and the same thing happened when I took another tablet a few months Inter. In the late 1960s, I began taking ascorbic acid regularly and I had a chronic cough; about a year later, I developed bleeding colitis. These symptoms stopped when I stopped taking ascorbic acid. I found that I could detect a very small amount of synthetic ascorbic acid in processed foods, by the recurrence of those symptoms. Over the years, seeing other people with similar symptoms, I would tell them about the allergenicity of vitamin tablets or powders, and their symptoms would go away. In this way I saw that the most frequent sensitivity was to ascorbic acid, riboflavin, and rutin. Later, I learned that these are synthesized from cornstarch. Synthetic ascorbic acid contains significant amounts of heavy metals, apparently introduced by the use of sulphuric acid as an oxidant. (The manufacture of sulphuric acid has customarily involved the use of a "lead room." I don't know whether this technology is still in use.) I experimented with large daily intakes of vitamin C, for example 4000 mg. per day in the form of fresh grapefruit juice, and didn't experience any unpleasant reaction, but 1 or 2 mg. [?] of the synthetic form -- taken by accident in foods such as all-bran breakfast cereal, bread, or sausage, which I didn't suspect would contain added ascorbic acid -- would cause days of sickness with intestinal bleeding. Since my reactions to metabisulfite and to synthetic ascorbic acid are similar, though not identical, I suspect that sulfur compounds produced in manufacturing ascorbic acid are partly responsible for its allergenicity. Interestingly, I have had strong allergic reactions to several kinds of single amino acids; I suspect that these, and many other foods and supplements, are exposed to sulfites or ascorbic acid that have been used as preservatives at some stage of manufacture."​

 

[InChristAlone]

- Supplement safety (595/1474)

"In 1953, a few small tablets of ascorbic acid completely cured my poison oak and I never got it again though I worked in the woods every summer for several years. But in the late 1950s, I had cold-like symtoms for a few days after I took a 500 mg. tablet, and the same thing happened when I took another tablet a few months Inter. In the late 1960s, I began taking ascorbic acid regularly and I had a chronic cough; about a year later, I developed bleeding colitis. These symptoms stopped when I stopped taking ascorbic acid. I found that I could detect a very small amount of synthetic ascorbic acid in processed foods, by the recurrence of those symptoms. Over the years, seeing other people with similar symptoms, I would tell them about the allergenicity of vitamin tablets or powders, and their symptoms would go away. In this way I saw that the most frequent sensitivity was to ascorbic acid, riboflavin, and rutin. Later, I learned that these are synthesized from cornstarch. Synthetic ascorbic acid contains significant amounts of heavy metals, apparently introduced by the use of sulphuric acid as an oxidant. (The manufacture of sulphuric acid has customarily involved the use of a "lead room." I don't know whether this technology is still in use.) I experimented with large daily intakes of vitamin C, for example 4000 mg. per day in the form of fresh grapefruit juice, and didn't experience any unpleasant reaction, but 1 or 2 mg. [?] of the synthetic form -- taken by accident in foods such as all-bran breakfast cereal, bread, or sausage, which I didn't suspect would contain added ascorbic acid -- would cause days of sickness with intestinal bleeding. Since my reactions to metabisulfite and to synthetic ascorbic acid are similar, though not identical, I suspect that sulfur compounds produced in manufacturing ascorbic acid are partly responsible for its allergenicity. Interestingly, I have had strong allergic reactions to several kinds of single amino acids; I suspect that these, and many other foods and supplements, are exposed to sulfites or ascorbic acid that have been used as preservatives at some stage of manufacture."​

I have never had a bad reaction to vitamin C. I take zero other supplements or hormones right now, I sleep well, have a temp of 98.8 and pulse of 90 and above and my spring allergies so far have been non existant.

 

[Amazoniac]

- The beany syndrome

"Ascorbic acid tablets may be contaminated with enough iron and/or other catalysts to produce a toxic amount of free hydroxyl radicals.(14)"​

[14] Oxyradicals and multivitamin tablets

"The presence of both iron and ascorbate in multivitamin tablets might lead to hydroxyl radical production in the stomach. In this brief communication we attempt to estimate how much of this radical is formed. The conversion of salicylic acid to dihydroxybenzoic acids is used to estimate hydroxyl radical production.[5-7]"

- Photocatalytic oxidation of gas-phase Hg00 by carbon spheres supported visible-light-driven CuO-TiO2 [Wtf? (kine, 2018)]

​

"As shown in Fig. 1, a considerable flux of this radical is observed upon dissolution of a single tablet in 100 ml dilute hydrochloric acid, pH 2, the approximate acidity of the empty stomach. While it would be more realistic to have various proteins present, none were added. At low pH, Fe(II) is not bound to proteins and these have, therefore, no influence on the formation of hydroxyl radicals. However, proteins would interfere with the determination, due to their diffusion-limited rate of reaction with the hydroxyl radical.[2] Surprisingly, a tablet supposedly without iron produced nearly identical amounts of hydroxyl radicals. This is most likely due to contamination by iron or other redox-active metals. Without oxidants, two hydroxyl radicals are required to form one dihydroxybenzoate, whereas in the presence of oxidants, such as oxygen, the number is closer to one.[7]"

Spoiler: Fig. Ein

"Fig. 1. Hydroxyl radicals were measured by their ability to hydroxylate salicylic acid, which leads to 2,3- and 2,5-dihydroxybenzoic acid. (△, -Fe; ○, +Fe; ☐, +Fe, + 1 M ethanol.) Open symbols pertain to 2,3-dihydroxybenzoate, and closed symbols to 2,5-dihydroxybenzoate. One generic multivitamin tablet, with or without 18 mg iron in the form of Fe(II) complexed to fumarate was dissolved in 100 mL of an air-saturated 10 mM salicylate (Sigma) solution acidified to pH 2 with hydrochloric acid (Baker, analyzed reagent quality). The tablets contain 60 mg ascorbate. As shown, there is not much difference in hydroxyl radical production between iron-free and iron-containing multivitamin tablets, and a single line was drawn. The determination of dihydroxybenzoates by high-pressure liquid chromatography has been described earlier.[7] No dihydroxybenzoate products were observed when vitamin tablets were omitted (not shown)."

- Vitamin C pharmacokinetics in healthy volunteers: evidence for a recommended dietary allowance

- Ascorbic acid absorption in Crohn's disease

"In the absence of food in the stomach hydroxyl radicals will react with the mucosal lining, pepsin, and pepsinogen. A well-characterized hydroxyl radical scavenger, 1.0 M ethanol, greatly reduced the rate of formation of dihydroxybenzoates (see Fig. 1)."

"Production of hydroxyl radicals is likely to diminish when, upon ingestion of food, the pH rises and iron becomes bound to proteins and forms inactive hydroxocomplexes. Similar considerations apply to the intestine."

"The results presented here indicate that (a) harmful oxyradicals may be generated during a process that is not associated with a disorder or a disease, but that is considered necessary to maintain good health, and (b) that the stomach can tolerate a high flux of oxyradicals. Nevertheless, intake of vitamin C should be combined with food to limit or prevent injury."​

I have never had a bad reaction to vitamin C. I take zero other supplements or hormones right now, I sleep well, have a temp of 98.8 and pulse of 90 and above and my spring allergies so far have been non existant.

Have you noticed any masculinizing effect from it?

 

[stargazer1111]

This is what @Dan Wich wrote about vitamin C supplements in his website:



Vitamin C supplements with the fewest additives - Toxinless

I think one of the reasons Peat worries about it is the electron donation. The reason PUFA are so dangerous is because the electrons in the 2nd bond of the double bonds in the carbon chain are bound less tightly and are easily donated to redox active metals and oxygen. It will depend on the oxidative state of the metal, but vitamin C could hypothetically cause a similar problem since it is an electron donor. The problem would be less severe with vitamin C since it would not lead to the toxic byproducts seen with peroxidation of the PUFA but if vitamin C donates electrons to oxidized metals (like Fe-3+ for instance) the reduced Fe-2+ would then participate in the inappropriate production of reactive oxygen species and reactive nitrogen species that kill cells.

But vitamin C is also a scavenger of reactive oxygen species and reactive nitrogen species by donating electrons to quench radicals so it might end up creating and quenching them at the same time at high enough doses.

That's all hypothetical and based off my studies in biochemistry. Not sure if it's actually true.