What Really Matters To Women

Cirion

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I am not talking about time and attention, which women value, and I an not talking about a personality, which is a defensive reaction to the world. I'm talking about the authentic self, the soul, the masculine essence, whatever you want to call it. It is the thing you have been born with, and which most people never bring out in the world.

+1

This is actually the #1 most important thing women want in a man - a man who is his authentic self, chasing his true passions and desires, standing true to themselves in the face of adversity when it would be easy to back down from who you are. All the other things like money, social status, looks are nice and all but not actually the #1 thing women look for. And I'm talking about what high quality women look for BTW, the ones that know that this is what they're looking for. Some low-metabolism women can't tell the difference between authenticity and fake confidence, but trust me, the high-metabolism women can. (And pick up techniques rarely work on the high metabolism women either, once they find out you're fake).
 

LUH 3417

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+1

This is actually the #1 most important thing women want in a man - a man who is his authentic self, chasing his true passions and desires, standing true to themselves in the face of adversity when it would be easy to back down from who you are. All the other things like money, social status, looks are nice and all but not actually the #1 thing women look for. And I'm talking about what high quality women look for BTW, the ones that know that this is what they're looking for. Some low-metabolism women can't tell the difference between authenticity and fake confidence, but trust me, the high-metabolism women can. (And pick up techniques rarely work on the high metabolism women either, once they find out you're fake).
I would agree with you. I think what most people want in a relationship is connection, to feel alive, to feel like they are being seen for who they are, deep down, beneath all the conditioning. That’s why reducing sex to rules, for me, weakens it’s potential as an avenue for discovery, as a way to express new ways of being. I believe in approaching situations with a sense of feeling, and if I am carrying all these preconceived notions of what a man wants, I am cutting myself off from responding from an intuitive and feeling oriented place. Having to be someone I am not, carrying around a program for how to get a person to do this or that thing, I find that very noisy. My body can’t relax if I am strategizing. Maybe that is not the ideal, maybe the ideal some people here are referring to is a state of strategic relaxation. I don’t know.
 

Hugh Johnson

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This is very true. I think you can reduce sex to dominance/submission but there is also sex that is soulful and beyond the master slave dynamic
Some wiser than me argue that BDSM is, when it is done right, about trust and human expression. The submission allows the submissive, typically the woman, to surrender in full trust to be lead to pleasure by someone who takes her best interest as part of his. The aggression is about about giving and receiving the anger and rage and guilt and shame that is between genders, in a safe way, allowing full authentic human expression.

People don't actually want your to be positive, they want you to be fully human with all the negatives that includes and receiving that anger can be an incredible experience. Not to say BDSM isn't often pathologicl and abusive too.
 

LUH 3417

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Some wiser than me argue that BDSM is, when it is done right, about trust and human expression. The submission allows the submissive, typically the woman, to surrender in full trust to be lead to pleasure by someone who takes her best interest as part of his. The aggression is about about giving and receiving the anger and rage and guilt and shame that is between genders, in a safe way, allowing full authentic human expression.

People don't actually want your to be positive, they want you to be fully human with all the negatives that includes and receiving that anger can be an incredible experience. Not to say BDSM isn't often pathologicl and abusive too.
That’s an interesting perspective. The one thing that sounds a little bit worrisome is if one person is always on the receiving end of the abuse...how does it remain based in authentic expression of feeling as opposed to degrading into a sort of economy of abuse where people are just reciprocating negative emotions to find some sort of equilibrium?
 

Hugh Johnson

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That’s an interesting perspective. The one thing that sounds a little bit worrisome is if one person is always on the receiving end of the abuse...how does it remain based in authentic expression of feeling as opposed to degrading into a sort of economy of abuse where people are just reciprocating negative emotions to find some sort of equilibrium?
It's not abuse. And I doubt it always goes one way.

Like I said BDSM is often abusive and pathological. But like in Radical Honesty workshops, being angry and receiving anger are incredibly healing.
 

baccheion

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I would agree with you. I think what most people want in a relationship is connection, to feel alive, to feel like they are being seen for who they are, deep down, beneath all the conditioning. That’s why reducing sex to rules, for me, weakens it’s potential as an avenue for discovery, as a way to express new ways of being. I believe in approaching situations with a sense of feeling, and if I am carrying all these preconceived notions of what a man wants, I am cutting myself off from responding from an intuitive and feeling oriented place. Having to be someone I am not, carrying around a program for how to get a person to do this or that thing, I find that very noisy. My body can’t relax if I am strategizing. Maybe that is not the ideal, maybe the ideal some people here are referring to is a state of strategic relaxation. I don’t know.
There's wanting a relationship and there's trying to get laid. Very different approaches required, I'd say.

Women can bend if a bond develops, as that's more important. On the other hand, what created that bond in the first place? Hormone signaling (increasing attraction and comfort level)? A shared negative experience? Having common interests not often shared by others? A touch or eye contact at the right time? Fluid communication along with sexual tension?

The attraction women feel is usually a result of hormone levels. There's also health(y glow) and tongue action as I mentioned earlier.

While there's noise/variation, the pattern is fairly consistent.

Also, intuitor type women tend to be different from sensor women and are less common. The attractors commonly associated with women are also more relevant to feelers than thinkers. Women that are also thinkers approach dating, sex, and relationships more like men.

That’s an interesting perspective. The one thing that sounds a little bit worrisome is if one person is always on the receiving end of the abuse...how does it remain based in authentic expression of feeling as opposed to degrading into a sort of economy of abuse where people are just reciprocating negative emotions to find some sort of equilibrium?

BDSM is more like a kink/fetish. Some want to always be the sub. An abusive relationship is completely different. On the other hand, some prefer such relationships and being the one abused. Very inconveniencing for those who are suffering from actual abuse.
 

LUH 3417

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There's wanting a relationship and there's trying to get laid. Very different approaches required, I'd say.

Women can bend if a bond develops, as that's more important. On the other hand, what created that bond in the first place? Hormone signaling (increasing attraction and comfort level)? A shared negative experience? Having common interests not often shared by others? A touch or eye contact at the right time? Fluid communication along with sexual tension?

The attraction women feel is usually a result of hormone levels. There's also health(y glow) and tongue action as I mentioned earlier.

While there's noise/variation, the pattern is fairly consistent.

Also, intuitor type women tend to be different from sensor women and are less common. The attractors commonly associated with women are also more relevant to feelers than thinkers. Women that are also thinkers approach dating, sex, and relationships more like men.



BDSM is more like a kink/fetish. Some want to always be the sub. An abusive relationship is completely different. On the other hand, some prefer such relationships and being the one abused. Very inconveniencing for those who are suffering from actual abuse.
I can’t think of a time I’ve wanted to have sex with someone and not deepen my relationship with them. Maybe that’s a sign of a good metabolism, maybe it’s a sign of bad. I don’t know. I don’t like to reduce everything to hormonal and chemical reactions. It is one perspective, it is interesting, but ultimately not the most interesting or stimulating to me. I’m not saying that the only options are mechanistic or mystical interpretations of the world, but I like to think of sex, love and relationships as somewhere in between.


Love cannot be reduced to the first encounter, because it is a construction. The enigma in thinking about love is the duration of time necessary for it to flourish. In fact, it isn’t the ecstasy of those beginnings that is remarkable. The latter are clearly ecstatic, but love is above all a construction that lasts. We could say that love is a tenacious adventure. The adventurous side is necessary, but equally so is the need for tenacity. To give up at the first hurdle, the first serious disagreement, the first quarrel, is only to distort love. Real love is one that triumphs lastingly, sometimes painfully, over the hurdles erected by time, space and the world.
 

LUH 3417

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There's wanting a relationship and there's trying to get laid. Very different approaches required, I'd say.

Women can bend if a bond develops, as that's more important. On the other hand, what created that bond in the first place? Hormone signaling (increasing attraction and comfort level)? A shared negative experience? Having common interests not often shared by others? A touch or eye contact at the right time? Fluid communication along with sexual tension?

The attraction women feel is usually a result of hormone levels. There's also health(y glow) and tongue action as I mentioned earlier.

While there's noise/variation, the pattern is fairly consistent.

Also, intuitor type women tend to be different from sensor women and are less common. The attractors commonly associated with women are also more relevant to feelers than thinkers. Women that are also thinkers approach dating, sex, and relationships more like men.



BDSM is more like a kink/fetish. Some want to always be the sub. An abusive relationship is completely different. On the other hand, some prefer such relationships and being the one abused. Very inconveniencing for those who are suffering from actual abuse.
I’ve also never not been able to get sex when I wanted it so that probably skews my perspective.
 

Hugh Johnson

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There's wanting a relationship and there's trying to get laid. Very different approaches required, I'd say.

Women can bend if a bond develops, as that's more important. On the other hand, what created that bond in the first place? Hormone signaling (increasing attraction and comfort level)? A shared negative experience? Having common interests not often shared by others? A touch or eye contact at the right time? Fluid communication along with sexual tension?

The attraction women feel is usually a result of hormone levels. There's also health(y glow) and tongue action as I mentioned earlier.

While there's noise/variation, the pattern is fairly consistent.

Also, intuitor type women tend to be different from sensor women and are less common. The attractors commonly associated with women are also more relevant to feelers than thinkers. Women that are also thinkers approach dating, sex, and relationships more like men.



BDSM is more like a kink/fetish. Some want to always be the sub. An abusive relationship is completely different. On the other hand, some prefer such relationships and being the one abused. Very inconveniencing for those who are suffering from actual abuse.
I'm pretty sure if you can get laid, you can get a relationship. Other than that, you rely on a woman to duty **** you to keep you in a relationship because you are useful to her in some other way.
 

Cirion

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I think what baccheion is trying to say, there's a difference between just sleeping around and then trying to find someone to actually settle down with who is high quality. Key word- high quality relationship material. Often times, the high quality one is not going to be as simple to seduce. Women who are easy to get into a relationship with are usually needy or have emotional issues hence are quick to jump into a relationship because they find their security and identity in relationships. People who are secure in themselves are going to be pickier, and not settle down nearly as quickly, and not just jump from relationship to relationship. And that applies to men as well. It took me almost three decades to realize I was insecure in myself and needy and as a result I ended up in a bad relationship. But now I'm learning to try to be happy single before I even think about dating again.

I also learned that being needy and insecure is nearly 100% due to poor metabolism. A very enlightening moment of truth if you will. These aspects are improving as I fix my health.
 
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baccheion

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I can’t think of a time I’ve wanted to have sex with someone and not deepen my relationship with them. Maybe that’s a sign of a good metabolism, maybe it’s a sign of bad. I don’t know. I don’t like to reduce everything to hormonal and chemical reactions. It is one perspective, it is interesting, but ultimately not the most interesting or stimulating to me. I’m not saying that the only options are mechanistic or mystical interpretations of the world, but I like to think of sex, love and relationships as somewhere in between.


Love cannot be reduced to the first encounter, because it is a construction. The enigma in thinking about love is the duration of time necessary for it to flourish. In fact, it isn’t the ecstasy of those beginnings that is remarkable. The latter are clearly ecstatic, but love is above all a construction that lasts. We could say that love is a tenacious adventure. The adventurous side is necessary, but equally so is the need for tenacity. To give up at the first hurdle, the first serious disagreement, the first quarrel, is only to distort love. Real love is one that triumphs lastingly, sometimes painfully, over the hurdles erected by time, space and the world.
So, you were seeking a relationship not just sex. That's different from just wanting to get laid. Some people are just trying to get laid. I also referred to attraction (when I mentioned hormones, etc) not love.

Interactions aren't being reduced to chemicals. The effect of hormones, etc on attraction are being used to illustrate a point and are being acknowledged rather than brushed aside as inconsequential.

High metabolism? Maybe. Women can be volatile and just as easily seek out sex for validation or due to insecurity. Women make many claims regarding their ambitions (and may even mean it), but often act out of line with such claims.

Different personality types have different interests/needs/attractors in the context of a relationship.

Hormones and other seemingly irrelevant things also factor in due to the tendency of women to go based on intuition or how they are feeling. Logic isn't usually respected when a typical women makes decisions. Many things can affect their moods (or change in moods) and are sometimes used to manipulate toward a desired end.

It's like taking a larger amount of iodine and feeling the love/bond with someone near. 1 year later there's a marriage, but it was the oxytocin and other chemicals released that made them feel that way. They'd have reacted the same with anyone else, but ingestion aligned with lack of awareness and presence of someone that demonstrated interest.
 
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Hugh Johnson

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So, you were seeking a relationship not just sex. That's different from just wanting to get laid. Some people are just trying to get laid. I also referred to attraction (when I mentioned hormones, etc) not love.

Interactions aren't being reduced to chemicals. The effect of hormones, etc on attraction are being used to illustrate a point and are being acknowledged rather than brushed aside as inconsequential.

High metabolism? Maybe. Women can be volatile and just as easily seek out sex for validation or due to insecurity. Women make many claims regarding their ambitions (and may even mean it), but often act out of line with such claims.

Different personality types have different interests/needs/attractors in the context of a relationship.

Hormones and other seemingly irrelevant things also factor in due to the tendency of women to go based on intuition or how they are feeling. Logic isn't usually respected when a typical women makes decisions. Many things can affect their moods (or change in moods) and are sometimes used to manipulate toward a desired end.

It's like taking a larger amount of iodine and feeling the love/bond with someone near. 1 year later there's a marriage, but it was the oxytocin and other chemicals released that made them feel that way. They'd have reacted the same with anyone else, but ingestion aligned with lack of awareness and presence of someone that demonstrated interest.
Wait, how is iodine related to this? Besides, almost all women I know have 30-70 partners, sex is not really meaningful for women. They are not going to wait a long time.
 

baccheion

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Wait, how is iodine related to this? Besides, almost all women I know have 30-70 partners, sex is not really meaningful for women. They are not going to wait a long time.
How iodine affected hormones and how they affected perception.
 

Gone Peating

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Estrogen is attracted to testosterone and progesterone to provider males (low T + low E). Masculinity/Testosterone is mainly preferred during ovulation. After, when the body assumes it's pregnant, women start looking for a provider male to take care of the child.

Some have said birth control biases women toward effeminate males.

But doesn't birth control increase the estrogen to progesterone ratio? So that would make women on the pill prefer masculine men if your theory about their preferences is correct
 

Gone Peating

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Above all, women want the best looking partner they can attract, who at the same time they can stand and is a reasonably normal, likeable person

But of course they can and do settle for less than their ideal just as men do
 

Jib

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I’ve also never not been able to get sex when I wanted it so that probably skews my perspective.

Deprivation, IMO, highlights the basic nature of sex more than anything. The longer you go without it, and feel like you might never have it again, the more stark the reality of sex becomes. It's easy to idealize it and romanticize it when it's freely available, but when you go deprived for a very long time and see no light at the end of the tunnel, the reality that it's a basic form of connection that makes us feel human becomes apparent. I would absolutely call it a need, despite modern society claiming that it isn't.

A major turning point for me was sex being a regular part of my life for the very first time at a late age. The years before that were hell on earth for a lot of reasons, but not the least of which was having no touch, no sex, no nothing for over 13 years. I recently came out of a 3 year relationship and am slowly slipping back to that place, but it's different because I at least know what it's like now to have sex regularly. I know what I'm missing, so to speak, which IMO is better than never having had it at all. It was worse when I thought I was going to die without ever experiencing intimacy, which literally drove me insane, but after I experienced it, it still sucks being lonely, but it isn't mentally overwhelming like it was before.

That's why I feel like sex is an important part of development for humans. It really was like a switch flipped, and I made more progress in my life in those few years of that relationship than I did all the previous years combined. I didn't think about sex at all because it was just a normal part of my life, and all of a sudden all that mental energy was freed up to focus on my business and building skills and all that. I also slept much better. A lot of nights I would sleep with her, but a lot of nights I would sleep alone, but knowing I was in that relationship calmed my nerves down a lot.

Since it ended I've been back on my insomnia kick to a ridiculous degree, with my sleep schedule so erratic there's no continuity at all. The only change was the relationship ending. And before I was ever in a relationship I had chronic insomnia from nothing more than feeling deprived of touch and intimacy. If I ever even got a hug from someone it was like a bottle of water dropping down from the sky in the middle of the desert.

As much as I was in love with her, and as much as I still love her and care about her, simply getting laid would help me a lot. And I know this from my own experience. I can totally get the intimacy/romance/soul connection stuff. I really can. But I also am aware that simply getting laid can go a very, very long way in making a person feel like they're human again. The sparse hookups I've had here and there have shown me that. Even with girls I didn't feel close to or any connection with, hooking up felt great and it made me feel like I was grounded again, like actually alive and a human being.

Of course, when you're having sex regularly, all these kinds of thoughts just vanish. One thing I found funny was I didn't write in my journal a single time over those few years in that relationship. I was too busy living my life. Now that I'm alone again I'm writing a lot more, and thinking a lot more, ruminating, etc.

Part of why I'm even commenting in this thread is because I have to remind myself that men have to learn how to play the game if they want sex. There is definitely a subset of behaviors that "women want," i.e., that are sexually arousing to them, and behaviors that are sexually repelling to women. Having no clue about this or thinking that it isn't true won't help any guy have a more successful life as far as dealing with women goes.

The fish aren't gonna jump into the boat. That is just the reality of it. Just like no one is going to give you a well-paying job, or successful business, girls aren't going to just fall into your lap. It's important to reiterate that it's inherently non-judgmental of women, and simply observing their behavior and what is actually sexually arousing to them, which is different from what they usually say they want -- which errs more on the attraction side, i.e., connection, intimacy, closeness.

Which are, non-coincidentally, things that happen AFTER sex 99% of the time. Most of the time guys try to bypass the arousal stage, and go right to the connection/intimacy/closeness stage, and end up friend-zoning themselves. Women DO want these traits that they find attractive, but the catch is they only want it from guys that are sexually arousing to them.

Guys that want intimacy/closeness that are NOT sexually arousing to women, and push for intimacy/closeness, come off as very creepy, and it's no coincidence that a lot of stalkers fit this profile.

Even with my ex, who I still love very much, it all started with a hookup that went insanely well. And even near the end of the relationship she still talked about that first night we had sex like it was the most magic thing that ever happened in her life. I mean, for me it was. So that's cool. I can relate to that. But it doesn't change the fact that hot, passionate sex came FIRST, and then the intimacy/closeness came AFTER.

Cuddling and brushing your girlfriend or wife's hair while you watch a TV show is cute. Telling a girl you've never had sex with and aren't in a relationship with that you want to cuddle with her on a couch and brush her hair and watch TV with her is a good way to get a restraining order. Total creeper move. Yikes. I am shuddering even as I write that. Gross.

TL;DR = Sex is no big deal when it's a part of your life. It's a very big deal when it's not.
Gotta love the irony in life.
 

LUH 3417

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Deprivation, IMO, highlights the basic nature of sex more than anything. The longer you go without it, and feel like you might never have it again, the more stark the reality of sex becomes. It's easy to idealize it and romanticize it when it's freely available, but when you go deprived for a very long time and see no light at the end of the tunnel, the reality that it's a basic form of connection that makes us feel human becomes apparent. I would absolutely call it a need, despite modern society claiming that it isn't.

A major turning point for me was sex being a regular part of my life for the very first time at a late age. The years before that were hell on earth for a lot of reasons, but not the least of which was having no touch, no sex, no nothing for over 13 years. I recently came out of a 3 year relationship and am slowly slipping back to that place, but it's different because I at least know what it's like now to have sex regularly. I know what I'm missing, so to speak, which IMO is better than never having had it at all. It was worse when I thought I was going to die without ever experiencing intimacy, which literally drove me insane, but after I experienced it, it still sucks being lonely, but it isn't mentally overwhelming like it was before.

That's why I feel like sex is an important part of development for humans. It really was like a switch flipped, and I made more progress in my life in those few years of that relationship than I did all the previous years combined. I didn't think about sex at all because it was just a normal part of my life, and all of a sudden all that mental energy was freed up to focus on my business and building skills and all that. I also slept much better. A lot of nights I would sleep with her, but a lot of nights I would sleep alone, but knowing I was in that relationship calmed my nerves down a lot.

Since it ended I've been back on my insomnia kick to a ridiculous degree, with my sleep schedule so erratic there's no continuity at all. The only change was the relationship ending. And before I was ever in a relationship I had chronic insomnia from nothing more than feeling deprived of touch and intimacy. If I ever even got a hug from someone it was like a bottle of water dropping down from the sky in the middle of the desert.

As much as I was in love with her, and as much as I still love her and care about her, simply getting laid would help me a lot. And I know this from my own experience. I can totally get the intimacy/romance/soul connection stuff. I really can. But I also am aware that simply getting laid can go a very, very long way in making a person feel like they're human again. The sparse hookups I've had here and there have shown me that. Even with girls I didn't feel close to or any connection with, hooking up felt great and it made me feel like I was grounded again, like actually alive and a human being.

Of course, when you're having sex regularly, all these kinds of thoughts just vanish. One thing I found funny was I didn't write in my journal a single time over those few years in that relationship. I was too busy living my life. Now that I'm alone again I'm writing a lot more, and thinking a lot more, ruminating, etc.

Part of why I'm even commenting in this thread is because I have to remind myself that men have to learn how to play the game if they want sex. There is definitely a subset of behaviors that "women want," i.e., that are sexually arousing to them, and behaviors that are sexually repelling to women. Having no clue about this or thinking that it isn't true won't help any guy have a more successful life as far as dealing with women goes.

The fish aren't gonna jump into the boat. That is just the reality of it. Just like no one is going to give you a well-paying job, or successful business, girls aren't going to just fall into your lap. It's important to reiterate that it's inherently non-judgmental of women, and simply observing their behavior and what is actually sexually arousing to them, which is different from what they usually say they want -- which errs more on the attraction side, i.e., connection, intimacy, closeness.

Which are, non-coincidentally, things that happen AFTER sex 99% of the time. Most of the time guys try to bypass the arousal stage, and go right to the connection/intimacy/closeness stage, and end up friend-zoning themselves. Women DO want these traits that they find attractive, but the catch is they only want it from guys that are sexually arousing to them.

Guys that want intimacy/closeness that are NOT sexually arousing to women, and push for intimacy/closeness, come off as very creepy, and it's no coincidence that a lot of stalkers fit this profile.

Even with my ex, who I still love very much, it all started with a hookup that went insanely well. And even near the end of the relationship she still talked about that first night we had sex like it was the most magic thing that ever happened in her life. I mean, for me it was. So that's cool. I can relate to that. But it doesn't change the fact that hot, passionate sex came FIRST, and then the intimacy/closeness came AFTER.

Cuddling and brushing your girlfriend or wife's hair while you watch a TV show is cute. Telling a girl you've never had sex with and aren't in a relationship with that you want to cuddle with her on a couch and brush her hair and watch TV with her is a good way to get a restraining order. Total creeper move. Yikes. I am shuddering even as I write that. Gross.

TL;DR = Sex is no big deal when it's a part of your life. It's a very big deal when it's not.
Gotta love the irony in life.
I think you’re right, and I appreciate your openness and sharing. I know for myself personally it is very painful to have sex with someone and not deepen the connection. That influences my stance and feelings. If not being touched is a realm of hell, then being touched only to not feel like there is something more is as close to that hell as I can get. The disposability of it is what is depressing to me. I can completely understand why random sex would be fulfilling for people and even help them developmentally, but from my experience sex in a committed relationship that is evolving and challenging is overwhelmingly more powerful and influential to my development. Sex feels like an expression of the unconscious, of the unexplored secret parts of being a human. To be able to explore that with someone consistently appeals to me. Maybe it’s cultural, maybe if we really valued self esteem and people felt more whole in their bodies there wouldn’t be such an over reliance on one person to do that adventurous exploration with. It’s almost religious in a way, one person redeeming you from loneliness and all that. Hope you are getting through the break up, that must be very rough.
 

Jib

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I think you’re right, and I appreciate your openness and sharing. I know for myself personally it is very painful to have sex with someone and not deepen the connection. That influences my stance and feelings. If not being touched is a realm of hell, then being touched only to not feel like there is something more is as close to that hell as I can get. The disposability of it is what is depressing to me. I can completely understand why random sex would be fulfilling for people and even help them developmentally, but from my experience sex in a committed relationship that is evolving and challenging is overwhelmingly more powerful and influential to my development. Sex feels like an expression of the unconscious, of the unexplored secret parts of being a human. To be able to explore that with someone consistently appeals to me. Maybe it’s cultural, maybe if we really valued self esteem and people felt more whole in their bodies there wouldn’t be such an over reliance on one person to do that adventurous exploration with. It’s almost religious in a way, one person redeeming you from loneliness and all that. Hope you are getting through the break up, that must be very rough.

Thanks. I'm managing OK, to my surprise the first few weeks were the hardest. I thought I was gonna be down for the count for a lot longer. "Peating" is helping, for sure. Just got my order of 8lbs of hydrolyzed collagen in from Great Lakes, so I'm glad to be back on that again.

I can get that sex without deepening the connection can be painful. I've changed a lot since my last relationship and have not been sexually involved with anyone since so I can't say how I'd feel about it all now with any real certainty.

I enjoyed the progression and evolution of sex with my girlfriend over the years. I can totally get that. A lot definitely happened and I got closer to her as a result of all of it. The relationship overall was actually pretty traumatic, which is probably part of why the idea of non-attached sex is more appealing to me now. She had a drug addiction problem, and the amount of times I would drive to her house at 3AM panicking that I was going to find her dead...

We got very close but there was a lot that happened that made me think, "I am NEVER doing this again." A big part of that was loving someone so much you'd die for them but then seeing them suffer so much without being able to do anything to help them, and then even to a point of feeling like it's your fault, then feeling like everything wrong in the relationship is your fault, etc.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic! Keeping this on topic, there is plenty of room for variability with men and women's interaction with each other. I do think there is a Yin/Yang balance, and there are some objective realities with men and women: women tend to be more emotional, and men tend to be more stoic, and these are complementary to each other. Just as one example. It can be very helpful to acknowledge men and women's very real differences, and embrace them.

I've only read snippets from it on forums online, but "The Way of the Superior Man" by David Deida has some interesting notes. You may find that interesting in particular. It takes a very spiritual approach to men and women. The impression I got was that it was mostly intended for older guys in long term relationships, who also have families, but I'm sure a lot of the points can be extrapolated to other guys.

We're all unique, and all individuals...but I do think it helps to classify things by gender as well. Having some idea about what it means to "be a man" helps me function in the world, just as having some idea about how to relate to women as a man. My take is....get the basics down, and run with it. It's not a cookie cutter thing. But having some basic ideas does help, especially if you're clueless.

It is strange that we live in a society where we think about these things. Many cultures just have rituals and ceremonies and all the gender roles pre-designated. It's interesting that we live in such a place and time that there's really nothing but fluid and changing and debatable ideas about all this stuff.
 

LUH 3417

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Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
2,990
Thanks. I'm managing OK, to my surprise the first few weeks were the hardest. I thought I was gonna be down for the count for a lot longer. "Peating" is helping, for sure. Just got my order of 8lbs of hydrolyzed collagen in from Great Lakes, so I'm glad to be back on that again.

I can get that sex without deepening the connection can be painful. I've changed a lot since my last relationship and have not been sexually involved with anyone since so I can't say how I'd feel about it all now with any real certainty.

I enjoyed the progression and evolution of sex with my girlfriend over the years. I can totally get that. A lot definitely happened and I got closer to her as a result of all of it. The relationship overall was actually pretty traumatic, which is probably part of why the idea of non-attached sex is more appealing to me now. She had a drug addiction problem, and the amount of times I would drive to her house at 3AM panicking that I was going to find her dead...

We got very close but there was a lot that happened that made me think, "I am NEVER doing this again." A big part of that was loving someone so much you'd die for them but then seeing them suffer so much without being able to do anything to help them, and then even to a point of feeling like it's your fault, then feeling like everything wrong in the relationship is your fault, etc.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic! Keeping this on topic, there is plenty of room for variability with men and women's interaction with each other. I do think there is a Yin/Yang balance, and there are some objective realities with men and women: women tend to be more emotional, and men tend to be more stoic, and these are complementary to each other. Just as one example. It can be very helpful to acknowledge men and women's very real differences, and embrace them.

I've only read snippets from it on forums online, but "The Way of the Superior Man" by David Deida has some interesting notes. You may find that interesting in particular. It takes a very spiritual approach to men and women. The impression I got was that it was mostly intended for older guys in long term relationships, who also have families, but I'm sure a lot of the points can be extrapolated to other guys.

We're all unique, and all individuals...but I do think it helps to classify things by gender as well. Having some idea about what it means to "be a man" helps me function in the world, just as having some idea about how to relate to women as a man. My take is....get the basics down, and run with it. It's not a cookie cutter thing. But having some basic ideas does help, especially if you're clueless.

It is strange that we live in a society where we think about these things. Many cultures just have rituals and ceremonies and all the gender roles pre-designated. It's interesting that we live in such a place and time that there's really nothing but fluid and changing and debatable ideas about all this stuff.
Men and women are different and I hold sexual difference in high regard. I think Eros, eroticism, ideals of love, are the result of this tension between masculine and feminine. And while I agree that the tension between opposites is creative, I also see the coming together of opposites as an opportunity for experiencing the world through the physical and spiritual view of another sex. Yes men are one way, and when my man and I disagree and he is sharp and logical with me, it’s an opportunity for me to see the world through a man’s eyes, which is expansive, it literally feels like my brain, my vision, and my world view are growing. Just like when I speak from my heart and my emotions, he takes what I say and holds it and integrates it, and we both change and grow and deepen our love through this constant contraction and expansion, of living with your own thoughts and experiences, sharing them, and then expanding them to include another’s. It is strange that these things are fluid, and debatable, but I also feel that some things are right for people, they feel right, they feel good, and those are the things that culture is weak to. For instance we think of mothers as maternal, women as having some evolutionarily hardwired maternal instinct, and sure it’s there. But there are also very interesting instances where men can be just as nurturing as women, where the survival of the species is paramount and superficial features of the structure of a society are easily dissolved in the name of some greater good or rightness, like the life of an infant. I think a lot of rituals and ceremonies in indigenous cultures centered around dissolution of superficial characteristics, so that the members of a culture could experience that fluidity and integrate it into their psychology. Maybe it lends itself to a more egalitarian existence, maybe our focus on rigidity, on definition, on compartmentalization of character is extremely hardening to the organism.
 

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