[Discussion] Raising Body Temperature

Hans

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No I have not experienced that it messes with my sleep or affects how I wake up even at 20mg daily.

The purpose of uncoupling is to increase heat and CO2 production. There are obviously a lot of other benefits to uncoupling but those are the main reasons. Uncoupling does improve mitochondrial function, but not directly restore it to normal function when broken, but can help indirectly by lowering ROS, RLS, RNS, etc. Creating new mitochondria is probably the best idea as then you'll have more prefectly working cells. Methylene blue increases it. MB and niacinamide keeps NAD/NADH ratio high which is essential cellular function, DNA repair, etc.
Keeping PUFAs low and increasing uncoupling will keep new mitochondrial happy.
 

Cirion

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@Hans

Can you maybe expand more on creating new mitochondria vs. just maintaining mitochondria health? I had not considered that the two were separate things.

I am guessing for someone who is still sick, the focus should be especially on creating new healthy mitochondria?
 

Hans

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@Hans

Can you maybe expand more on creating new mitochondria vs. just maintaining mitochondria health? I had not considered that the two were separate things.

I am guessing for someone who is still sick, the focus should be especially on creating new healthy mitochondria?
Mitochondria can be damaged by an excess of free radicals, caused by PUFAs, nitric oxide, dysfunctional electron transport chain, lack of anti-oxidant defense enzymes, such as SOD, CAT, etc.
Stress is the major cause of an excess production of NO via iNOS, which, when bound to the Fe of the cytochrome c oxidase, causes hypoxia, cellular dysfunction and a reduction of ATP, CO2 and also an increase in the production of extra free radicals, via electron leak in the ETC. Arginine or BH4 deficiency can cause NOS to uncouple and create superoxide instead of NO, thus contributing to cellular stress. Inflammation, infection, endotoxin and stress are the major inducers of NOS.
Keeping stress, endotoxins, inflammation, etc., low, while eating enough vitamins and minerals for anti-oxidant defenses, excess ROS can be stopped and the cell can repair.
To repair, it needs a high ratio of NAD to NADH. A high NAD/NADH ratio not only repairs DNA, but also protects it from further oxidative stress.

But all in all, ROS in moderation isn't bad as it's used for mitochondrial biogenesis for example.
PGC-1α is a major regulator of mitochondrial biogenesis, of which AMPK is a major activator. Methylene blue, caffeine, MCT oil, DHEA, aspirin, etc., increases AMPK and promotes mitochondrial biogenesis.

But you don't necessarily want more mitochondria, but better working ones. You want your body to get rid of the old, small, defective ones and fuse the working ones into bigger cells. Stearic acid is a prime example of a substance that promotes mitochondrial fusion.
Proper thyroid function, a high NAD/NADH ratio, sodium benzoate, apigenin, etc., promotes fission, cellular turnover and cellular health. Sarcosine promotes proper mitophagy and reduces lipofuscin in the liver. Sarcosine is created from glycine is the methylation cycle. Glycine requirements might be much higher in someone that is recovering metabolically than a healthy person, way more than 10gs daily.

If your health is still struggling to recover despite the fact that you've used a lot of supplements to promote cellular health and are eating a diet abundant in nutrients, it would be important to look to the gut as that is where everything is broken down and absorbed. Proper digestion and absorption will depend on your gut microbe, stomach acid, digestive enzyme secretion, etc. Also the quality of your foods matter, for instance, vitamin B6 is essential for blood sugar stabilization and helping to stay fuller for longer (shutting off the stress reaction), but it's degraded with heat and also the absorption thereof from plant foods depends on your gut microbe.
Another example is magnesium. When you are recovering metabolically and perhaps from a long-standing deficiency, your cells will absorb the magnesium at a high rate and you might even get symptoms of magnesium deficiency for a while. Sorting out the gut would be essential to absorb your nutrients.
 

Cirion

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Sarcosine is created from glycine is the methylation cycle. Glycine requirements might be much higher in someone that is recovering metabolically than a healthy person, way more than 10gs daily.

I am a big fan of gelatin recently. I was liking taking in upwards of 72 gram of gelatin a day as it energizes me way more than other proteins, but then it started giving me painful bowel movements :( The max gelatin I can intake a day without problems is 36, which puts me at something like 15 gram of glycine a day. Why do you think gelatin/glycine is doing this to me? Blood thinning maybe?
 
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jzeno

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@Hans

I'm curious to know how table sugar plays a role in mitochondria health. I take it that sugar can be good for CO2 production but that's only if I'm not insulin resistant--Right?

You mentioned that in your first post in this thread where you suggest uncouplers--long-term goal is decreasing resistance to insulin so my body is able to use the glucose more efficiently (I think, I'm new to all of this)

>I think the reason people feel a great increase in temp from starches is because it spikes insulin which drives glucose oxidation and inhibits lipolysis and so on, whereas fruits and milk don't spike insulin in the same way and therefore doesn't produce the same effect. But in someone that is more insulin resistant, continuously consuming glucose and spiking insulin might exacerbate insulin resistance, as it doesn't shut down lipolysis as it should and then the glucose is converted to lactate which has an anti-metabolic effect.​

>To increase temps permanently, restoring mitochondrial function and insulin sensitivity (as well as thyroid function) is most important. To do that you need to repair mitochondrial damage, get rid of old damaged mitochondria through fission and mitophagy, and promote fusion to enhance the function of working mitochondria.​

[Discussion] Raising Body Temperature

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying: Potatoes (glucose) feel good to eat because they drive up glucose oxidation by spiking insulin and also inhibit lipolysis, but you're saying In the long-term, that is not a good plan because while in the short-term it does feel good to be warm, constantly driving up insulin may actually exacerbate the problem of insulin insensitivity and make me worse off in the long-run.

As for the long-term solution, you're saying (1) Focus on mitochondria through uncouplers, (2) Increase thyroid function, and (3) Increase insulin sensitivity. How do I do that last one--#3--increasing my insulin sensitivity? I see that what we're describing here (insulin resistance) is Type II diabetes and the prescribed method of treatment for this by US healthcare professionals would be something like (as an example) Metformin combined with diet and exercise or possibly even Insulin as a prescription, but if I don't want to go that route what are the other ways to increase insulin sensitivity?

Could I use sugar to cure insulin resistance or am I way off base here? I know that it's possible to reduce insulin resistance, I just don't know which way is the best way. I know that some people effect diabetes through high fat diets like ketosis, etc. (which I've done before and don't want to do again). But if I want to experiment with what you or Ray suggest--which might be contrary to what I understand about all this--what are some of the ways I can increase my insulin sensitivity?

I know Ray has said that he has read papers of people being cured of diabetes by eating huge amounts of sugar--

source:

--but I believe he was talking about Type I Diabetes or the Wasting Disease as it was called--not Type II Diabetes.

I'm sure the uncoupling work I'm doing is good for insulin sensitivity, but what is the way I attack it head on, dead center? Sugar? Aspirin? I know there is a very simple way to accomplish this, but this is all very new to me so forgive my ignorance.

Thanks

Edit: I found an old, good post by Haidut on what you were referring to--The Randal Cycle:

The Randle Effect In Action (human Study)

What's interesting is a diet high in fat (like ketosis, which I just got off many months ago) actually disrupted insulin sensitivity and actually cause diabetes!

I see now why Ray suggests a diet that is moderate to low in fat.

Later in that thread by Haidut, he goes on to explain that aspirin in 7 g doses / day restored insulin sensitivity. I think aspirin will play a bigger role in helping me than it does even now.

15 Aspirins Per Day?

Edit #2: Found this article by Ray Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

>Avoiding the starches such as cereals and beans, and using fruits as a major part of the diet helps to minimize the effects of the polyunsaturated fats.​

>The supplements that most often help to correct diabetes-like conditions are niacinamide, thiamine, thyroid, and progesterone or pregnenolone. Vitamins D and K are clearly protective against developing diabetes, and their effects on many regulatory processes suggest that they would also help to correct existing hyperglycemia.​

>Drinking coffee seems to be very protective against developing diabetes. Its niacin and magnesium are clearly important, but it is also a rich source of antioxidants, and it helps to maintain normal thyroid and progesterone production. Chocolate is probably protective too, and it is a good source of magnesium and antioxidants.​

This is interesting--Potassium:

>"Diabetologists" don't regularly measure their patients' insulin, but they usually make the assumption that insulin is the main factor regulating blood sugar. In one study, it was found that the insulin molecule itself, immunoreactive insulin, accounted for only about 8% of the serum's insulin-like action. The authors of that study believed that potassium was the main other factor in the serum that promoted the disposition of glucose. Since potassium and glucose are both always present in the blood, their effects on each other have usually been ignored.​

Upping Potassium in the diet, therefore could be good...

Found this study: Low salt intake modulates insulin signaling, JNK activity and IRS-1ser307 phosphorylation in rat tissues. - PubMed - NCBI

I feel like I'm learning a ton!
 
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Hans

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I am a big fan of gelatin recently. I was liking taking in upwards of 72 gram of gelatin a day as it energizes me way more than other proteins, but then it started giving me painful bowel movements :( The max gelatin I can intake a day without problems is 36, which puts me at something like 15 gram of glycine a day. Why do you think gelatin/glycine is doing this to me? Blood thinning maybe?
How about the quality of your brand? Endotoxins?
Maybe you can reduce the dose a bit and add in some extra glycine with the gelatin.
 

Hans

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@Hans

I'm curious to know how table sugar plays a role in mitochondria health. I take it that sugar can be good for CO2 production but that's only if I'm not insulin resistant--Right?

You mentioned that in your first post in this thread where you suggest uncouplers--long-term goal is decreasing resistance to insulin so my body is able to use the glucose more efficiently (I think, I'm new to all of this)

>I think the reason people feel a great increase in temp from starches is because it spikes insulin which drives glucose oxidation and inhibits lipolysis and so on, whereas fruits and milk don't spike insulin in the same way and therefore doesn't produce the same effect. But in someone that is more insulin resistant, continuously consuming glucose and spiking insulin might exacerbate insulin resistance, as it doesn't shut down lipolysis as it should and then the glucose is converted to lactate which has an anti-metabolic effect.​

>To increase temps permanently, restoring mitochondrial function and insulin sensitivity (as well as thyroid function) is most important. To do that you need to repair mitochondrial damage, get rid of old damaged mitochondria through fission and mitophagy, and promote fusion to enhance the function of working mitochondria.​

[Discussion] Raising Body Temperature

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying: Potatoes (glucose) feel good to eat because they drive up glucose oxidation by spiking insulin and also inhibit lipolysis, but you're saying In the long-term, that is not a good plan because while in the short-term it does feel good to be warm, constantly driving up insulin may actually exacerbate the problem of insulin insensitivity and make me worse off in the long-run.

As for the long-term solution, you're saying (1) Focus on mitochondria through uncouplers, (2) Increase thyroid function, and (3) Increase insulin sensitivity. How do I do that last one--#3--increasing my insulin sensitivity? I see that what we're describing here (insulin resistance) is Type II diabetes and the prescribed method of treatment for this by US healthcare professionals would be something like (as an example) Metformin combined with diet and exercise or possibly even Insulin as a prescription, but if I don't want to go that route what are the other ways to increase insulin sensitivity?

Could I use sugar to cure insulin resistance or am I way off base here? I know that it's possible to reduce insulin resistance, I just don't know which way is the best way. I know that some people effect diabetes through high fat diets like ketosis, etc. (which I've done before and don't want to do again). But if I want to experiment with what you or Ray suggest--which might be contrary to what I understand about all this--what are some of the ways I can increase my insulin sensitivity?

I know Ray has said that he has read papers of people being cured of diabetes by eating huge amounts of sugar--

source:

--but I believe he was talking about Type I Diabetes or the Wasting Disease as it was called--not Type II Diabetes.

I'm sure the uncoupling work I'm doing is good for insulin sensitivity, but what is the way I attack it head on, dead center? Sugar? Aspirin? I know there is a very simple way to accomplish this, but this is all very new to me so forgive my ignorance.

Thanks

Edit: I found an old, good post by Haidut on what you were referring to--The Randal Cycle:

The Randle Effect In Action (human Study)

What's interesting is a diet high in fat (like ketosis, which I just got off many months ago) actually disrupted insulin sensitivity and actually cause diabetes!

I see now why Ray suggests a diet that is moderate to low in fat.

Later in that thread by Haidut, he goes on to explain that aspirin in 7 g doses / day restored insulin sensitivity. I think aspirin will play a bigger role in helping me than it does even now.

15 Aspirins Per Day?

Edit #2: Found this article by Ray Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

>Avoiding the starches such as cereals and beans, and using fruits as a major part of the diet helps to minimize the effects of the polyunsaturated fats.​

>The supplements that most often help to correct diabetes-like conditions are niacinamide, thiamine, thyroid, and progesterone or pregnenolone. Vitamins D and K are clearly protective against developing diabetes, and their effects on many regulatory processes suggest that they would also help to correct existing hyperglycemia.​

>Drinking coffee seems to be very protective against developing diabetes. Its niacin and magnesium are clearly important, but it is also a rich source of antioxidants, and it helps to maintain normal thyroid and progesterone production. Chocolate is probably protective too, and it is a good source of magnesium and antioxidants.​

This is interesting--Potassium:

>"Diabetologists" don't regularly measure their patients' insulin, but they usually make the assumption that insulin is the main factor regulating blood sugar. In one study, it was found that the insulin molecule itself, immunoreactive insulin, accounted for only about 8% of the serum's insulin-like action. The authors of that study believed that potassium was the main other factor in the serum that promoted the disposition of glucose. Since potassium and glucose are both always present in the blood, their effects on each other have usually been ignored.​

Upping Potassium in the diet, therefore could be good...

Found this study: Low salt intake modulates insulin signaling, JNK activity and IRS-1ser307 phosphorylation in rat tissues. - PubMed - NCBI

I feel like I'm learning a ton!

No, sugar is good no matter if you're insulin sensitive or resistant. The fructose will be able to increase PDH and increase glucose oxidation, where glucose cannot in insulin resistance.

Glucose and starches spike insulin more than sugar yes, and it depends on how insulin sensitive you are and how well your liver can get rid of the insulin and so on, which will determine your insulin levels of the long term. Insulin is also the most potent inducer of insulin resistance. As you decrease fat intake or inhibit lipolysis, insulin requirements drop and the amount of insulin in the blood will drop. For instance, fat inhibits first pass clearance of insulin in the liver. So if you have an issue with insulin resistance or elevated free fatty acids, spiking insulin repeatedly might make it worse. Spiking insulin with a second meal, while the insulin from the previous meal hasn't been cleared yet will lead to total higher insulin levels. That is why some studies find that three meals per day result in lower circulating insulin levels compared to 6 meals per day. But with milk or fruits, insulin isn't spiked as much, and the magnesium and potassium in the milk and fruits will help to increase glucose uptake into cells, lowering total insulin requirements.

But as a whole, it goes like this:
  • Glucose in the blood needs to enter the cells. Fructose can enter without insulin whereas glucose cannot and depends on insulin (glucose can also enter the cells in an insulin-independent manner such as with exercise).
  • In glycolysis, glucose is converted to pyruvate. Hypoxia and free radical, such as NO, increases glycolysis and you end up with more pyruvate than is able to enter the mitochondria and it's then converted to lactate. DHEA helps to slow down glycolysis. Fructose, vitamin B1, magnesium, etc., increases PDH and glucose oxidation, lowering the production of lactate.
  • The pyruvate is converted to acetyl-CoA where it combines with oxaloacetate to create citric acid. The next enzyme, aconitase, converts citrate to isocitrate. Aconitase, of which iron is a cofactor, is inhibited by oxidative stress. Thus citrate leaves the mitochondria and is used in de novo lipogenesis.
  • The hydrogens gained during a normal TCA cycle is then transported to the ETC to be used in ATP synthesis. Complexes can be damaged and thus the hydrogen carriers cannot donate the hydrogen. In most cases complex I is damaged, reduced, or dysfunctional and then NADH builds up.
  • Cytochrome c oxidase (COX) of the ETC can also be inhibited, thus causing a backup in the ETC and an electron spill, increasing oxidative stress. NO and CO inhibits COX and causes this. Methylene blue and red light displaces the NO from COX, lowers ROS and promotes ATP and CO2 production. Uncoupling can also help to lower ROS and oxidative stress.
So point being, there are quite a few places where things can go wrong, and it's not only insulin resistance that is to blame for the inability to create CO2, ATP, etc.
Improving insulin sensitivity comes down to lowering excess circulating free fatty acids and improving mitochondria function so that proper glucose oxidation can take place. Sugar might help, but might not be enough to shut down excess lipolysis, restore nutritional deficiencies or restore mitochondrial function.
Metformin increases the production of lactate and inhibits complex I of the ETC, which is the opposite of what we want to achieve. Ketosis "cures" insulin resistance by lowering hyperglycemia, Hb1Ac, insulin, etc., but if you put the glucose back, all the old problems just resurface. It's not a cure, it's avoiding the problem by working around it. Cutting out glucose is not the answer.

To improve insulin sensitivity, you can focus on either lowering fat intake or eating less high GI foods, such as milk and fruits, as that will help to decrease insulin levels. Everyone responds differently to diet and various macronutrients combination, so you'll have to experiment on this one. Eating frequently can also help as that will help to keep cortisol and serotonin low and thus improve insulin sensitivity. There are a few supplements that can be used to improve insulin sensitivity, such as glycine (>15g daily), niacinamide (1.5-2g daily), aspirin (like that thread you linked. In some studies they used high doses of aspirin, 7-9g, which resulted that some type I diabetics didn't even require exogenous insulin anymore), taurine, calcium (can be from diet too), vitamin D, K2, ginseng, cinnamon, magnesium, vitamin B1 (100-200mg per carb meal), biotin (3-5mg thrice daily), potassium, salt (salt help to keep magnesium and potassium in the cells), etc.
 

Cirion

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How about the quality of your brand? Endotoxins?
Maybe you can reduce the dose a bit and add in some extra glycine with the gelatin.

this is possible. Gelatin is expensive in bulk especially the higher quality brands, so I went with the cheaper brand. That said I seem to have built up tolerance after some time of using it and can now handle 36g a day perfectly, with virtually no bowel problems, may be just an adaption period after being glycine deficient for a long time? I may try adding pure glycine to my jello recipe though.
 

Hans

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this is possible. Gelatin is expensive in bulk especially the higher quality brands, so I went with the cheaper brand. That said I seem to have built up tolerance after some time of using it and can now handle 36g a day perfectly, with virtually no bowel problems, may be just an adaption period after being glycine deficient for a long time? I may try adding pure glycine to my jello recipe though.
Maybe your gut was just initially struggling to digest it, but now it's doing a better job and you're able to eat more.
 
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jzeno

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Quick Update

Ever since I started on Pyrucet and MB I started waking up feeling like a hangover. I'm going to stop the MB to see if it is because of that. It might take a few days to figure out if the effect is cause by the one or the other. If the effect persists, it might be the Pyrucet. Will have to wait and see.

Another update: My finger nails are stronger and healthier looking then they've looked in a long time. Something is working.
 
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jzeno

jzeno

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Quick Update

I woke up better than I have been the past few days after not taking any MB yesterday, so I think the MB might be affecting my sleep somehow, though I'm not sure how or why.

I think I will take a break for a short period, flush it out and then pick it up again and see if I get the same response.
 
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Salt saturated fat coffee sun exposure enough calories enough protein enough carbs

Favorite breakfast for raising temp is
Cheese eggs with salted potatoe wedges cooked until very crispy and half mug coffee other half milk

Magnesium helps as well
 

japanesedude

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topical VitaminD - 6000-12000IU
Coffee + Cypro(Cypro prevent possible stress response from caffeine by antagonizing cortisol and adrenaline)
applying Pansterone on scrotum

3 things that works for me.
 

magnesiumania

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Mitochondria can be damaged by an excess of free radicals, caused by PUFAs, nitric oxide, dysfunctional electron transport chain, lack of anti-oxidant defense enzymes, such as SOD, CAT, etc.
Stress is the major cause of an excess production of NO via iNOS, which, when bound to the Fe of the cytochrome c oxidase, causes hypoxia, cellular dysfunction and a reduction of ATP, CO2 and also an increase in the production of extra free radicals, via electron leak in the ETC. Arginine or BH4 deficiency can cause NOS to uncouple and create superoxide instead of NO, thus contributing to cellular stress. Inflammation, infection, endotoxin and stress are the major inducers of NOS.
Keeping stress, endotoxins, inflammation, etc., low, while eating enough vitamins and minerals for anti-oxidant defenses, excess ROS can be stopped and the cell can repair.
To repair, it needs a high ratio of NAD to NADH. A high NAD/NADH ratio not only repairs DNA, but also protects it from further oxidative stress.

But all in all, ROS in moderation isn't bad as it's used for mitochondrial biogenesis for example.
PGC-1α is a major regulator of mitochondrial biogenesis, of which AMPK is a major activator. Methylene blue, caffeine, MCT oil, DHEA, aspirin, etc., increases AMPK and promotes mitochondrial biogenesis.

But you don't necessarily want more mitochondria, but better working ones. You want your body to get rid of the old, small, defective ones and fuse the working ones into bigger cells. Stearic acid is a prime example of a substance that promotes mitochondrial fusion.
Proper thyroid function, a high NAD/NADH ratio, sodium benzoate, apigenin, etc., promotes fission, cellular turnover and cellular health. Sarcosine promotes proper mitophagy and reduces lipofuscin in the liver. Sarcosine is created from glycine is the methylation cycle. Glycine requirements might be much higher in someone that is recovering metabolically than a healthy person, way more than 10gs daily.

If your health is still struggling to recover despite the fact that you've used a lot of supplements to promote cellular health and are eating a diet abundant in nutrients, it would be important to look to the gut as that is where everything is broken down and absorbed. Proper digestion and absorption will depend on your gut microbe, stomach acid, digestive enzyme secretion, etc. Also the quality of your foods matter, for instance, vitamin B6 is essential for blood sugar stabilization and helping to stay fuller for longer (shutting off the stress reaction), but it's degraded with heat and also the absorption thereof from plant foods depends on your gut microbe.
Another example is magnesium. When you are recovering metabolically and perhaps from a long-standing deficiency, your cells will absorb the magnesium at a high rate and you might even get symptoms of magnesium deficiency for a while. Sorting out the gut would be essential to absorb your nutrients.

Ive got some sodium benzoate but its for preservation of jam etc and instructions tell me to add 40g to 0,5 liter boiling water....how much do you take of this and does it have to be added to hot water?
 
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Very interesting.....ive got some but have no idea how much to take....
I take 1 g. Sodium benzoate depleats glycine. Seems to be tricky compound, not sure if someone really should supplement it without diagnosed ammonia cycle abnormalities.
 

magnesiumania

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I understand that its not a nutrient and only meant to be used in certain sitaution like when ammonia is elevated. But is it unsafe in anyway or merely unnecessary? I took like half a teaspoon and i guess it equates to about 2 grams and i feel nothing noticable....
 

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