Starch And Better Sleep?

[jaywills]

Who can explain this situation i keep finding myself in:

If i eat purely scurose and fructose as my carb sources throughout the day and in the evening - I cannot sleep at night - racing thoughts, inability to lie still, almost an adrenaline rush.

keeping all other circumstances and factors the same, i.e sucrose and fructose in day, same supplements etc.... but If i change my evening meal to include starch in place of fructose, i fall to sleep fine and have a lot better nights sleep.

I have tested this numerous times, and an example would be last night . I could not sleep at all (did not eat any starch yesterday as part of the experiment). I Was lying in bed for hours, racing thoughts despite being knackered etc. So i went and ate around 20g oats, went back to bed and fell asleep instantly!

What would explain this? This seems to contradict Peats hypothesis on starch and cortisol?

 

[Mittir]

Someone asked this same question to RP in an interview. RP mentioned that fiber
causes starch to break down slowly, which results in a steady supply of sugar.
Same thing can be achieved by adding sugar into milk, which slows down the absorption. Undercooked starch also has low glycemic index, but this can cause digestion issue for a lot of people.If you look at the nutritional profile of oat, it is a mix of carb, protein, fat, fiber, vitamins and minerals. The glycemic index should be quite low depending on the method of cooking. I have sleep problem if i eat starch at night. RP also recommends eating sugar
with fat and protein to prevent sharp rise in blood sugar, which causes intense insulin and
cortisol release. If you look at insulin index for fructose, sucrose and glucose it will be
clear that glucose has the highest glycemic and insulin index among these 3 carb.

 

[jaywills]

Thank you Mittir for clarifying. So what i am experiencing is a high blood sugar response, and a way to allieviate this would be to add saturated fat/ protein to this mix to slow the response. This would make sense. Starch has never been a problem for me and i beleive it is detrimental to drop it completely, i will continue to eat at dinner for the sleep benefits it provides me but it is nice to know how to counteract the blood sugar issues i have been experiencing.

 

[Spokey]

This sums up my experiences with sleep very well. It's one of the reasons I happily eat starchy+fatty+proteiny+sugary+fibery foods esp prior to bed time.

I avoid things like oats though, I can eat them for a day or two consecutively, but if I eat them much more frequently than that I start feeling rather unwell.

 

[Jenn]

Yes, I frequently sleep very well with a bedtime snack of homemade fries. Sometimes starch is helpful, if glycogen stores in the liver are inadequate.

-Jenn

 

[SQu]

I know the recommendation is not to eat protein without sufficient sugar, but I didn't know it worked the other way too. I'd really like to understand this, as clearly I have cortisol issues too, also, signs I'm not oxidizing glucose well yet, hence terrible sleep and other low energy signs.

 

[Mittir]

I know the recommendation is not to eat protein without sufficient sugar, but I didn't know it worked the other way too. I'd really like to understand this, as clearly I have cortisol issues too, also, signs I'm not oxidizing glucose well yet, hence terrible sleep and other low energy signs.

Milk has low glycemic index, skim milk 32 and whole milk 40.
Besides presence of protein, potassium and magnesium play role in
disposing of sugar. When i add 2-3 tbs of sugar and 4-5 grams of instant coffee
to a cup of milk, the potassium and magnesium content becomes quite high.
1 oz of instant coffee has about 1 gram of potassium and 100 mg of magnesium.
A cup of Milk has about 25 mg magnesium and 350 mg potassium.
For someone with blood glucose issue extra potassium with sugar is quite
important. A pinch of salt also helps to control blood sugar.
Farmer's cheese with sugar is quite helpful before bed, but it is not as good as milk.

 

[dukez07]

Someone asked this same question to RP in an interview. RP mentioned that fiber
causes starch to break down slowly, which results in a steady supply of sugar.
Same thing can be achieved by adding sugar into milk, which slows down the absorption. Undercooked starch also has low glycemic index, but this can cause digestion issue for a lot of people.If you look at the nutritional profile of oat, it is a mix of carb, protein, fat, fiber, vitamins and minerals. The glycemic index should be quite low depending on the method of cooking. I have sleep problem if i eat starch at night. RP also recommends eating sugar
with fat and protein to prevent sharp rise in blood sugar, which causes intense insulin and
cortisol release. If you look at insulin index for fructose, sucrose and glucose it will be
clear that glucose has the highest glycemic and insulin index among these 3 carb.

RE: starch

I'm sure I've read RP saying the contrary, too? In that starch moves through your system far more slowly than instant sugar, but the sugar component of starch is instantly absorbed (hence the insulin spike)? That would explain the post-crash people speak of after eating starch. I personally crave extremely sweet things about an hour and half after eating a large starch based meal, regardless of how many calories they contain.

 

[Mittir]

RE: starch

I'm sure I've read RP saying the contrary, too? In that starch moves through your system far more slowly than instant sugar, but the sugar component of starch is instantly absorbed (hence the insulin spike)? That would explain the post-crash people speak of after eating starch. I personally crave extremely sweet things about an hour and half after eating a large starch based meal, regardless of how many calories they contain.

RP mentioned that sugar is absorbed high up in the intestine and
starch gets digested at lower part. I was talking about the blood sugar
and insulin spike from quickly digested carb. The caller was asking RP why did he have sleep problem on pure sugar but better sleep with starch. RP was speculating that something like fiber and fat slowing down the absorption of carbohydrate. Most people do not eat
pure starch, it is usually a part of a food and often with fat and protein.
He recommends small meals composed of sugar,fat and protein to minimize
sugar and insulin response. I feel fine when i add 2-3 tbs of sugar in a cup of milk
but do not feel the same when i add 2 tbs of sugar to a cup of fruit juice.
RP explained that fructose gets metabolised without needing insulin and
starch will need more insulin than sucrose. If someone already has
pre-diabetic like issue then starch is a big problem. Potassium and magnesium
in food also play a role in sugar and insulin response to carbohydrate.

 

[pboy]

most starch is around 70 - 90% rapidly digestible starch, which is all glucose. Glucose gets absorbed very fast, 15 minutes to 2 hours. The rest of the starch is resistant or harder to break down and usually reaches the colon, or might get partially digested in the lower small intestine...which would be about 6 hours later, usually it just goes undigested. Sugar is half glucose half fructose, fructose takes about 4 hours to get absorbed, so sugar is half quick release, half time release. Starch is pretty much all fast release...non legume or raw starch, basic starch. So most of it will already be absorbed within 2 hours after the meal. If you ate a significant amount of fat with the meal, it might slow it down by an hour or 2. A little fat usually doesn't effect it at all, it has to be 20+ grams usually.

The only thing that really takes longer than 4 hours to digest would maybe be casein, anything else that took longer would probably not be digested at all. So ice cream or milk with sugar, and maybe a little added fat, would be the longest lasting release...that I can think of. Maybe beans with a lot of fat could rival it but that would be a gastric disaster

 

[jet9]

Who can explain this situation i keep finding myself in:

If i eat purely scurose and fructose as my carb sources throughout the day and in the evening - I cannot sleep at night - racing thoughts, inability to lie still, almost an adrenaline rush.

keeping all other circumstances and factors the same, i.e sucrose and fructose in day, same supplements etc.... but If i change my evening meal to include starch in place of fructose, i fall to sleep fine and have a lot better nights sleep.

I have tested this numerous times, and an example would be last night . I could not sleep at all (did not eat any starch yesterday as part of the experiment). I Was lying in bed for hours, racing thoughts despite being knackered etc. So i went and ate around 20g oats, went back to bed and fell asleep instantly!

What would explain this? This seems to contradict Peats hypothesis on starch and cortisol?

Same experience here. I sleep much much better if i have starch for dinner.

 

[Vinero]

Starches like white rice or potatoes are very good for getting sleepy.
Starches like whole grains and more fibrous starches are difficult to digest and less-calorie dense, so they can actually disturb sleep.

 

[Peatit]

Bump,
As I experience it myself, I'm very interested in the subject.
I could postulate that perhaps this is a "side effect" of the rapid blood sugar increase which could instantly kill cortisol/adrenalin secretion.

 

[Cirion]

I am eating 3 lb of potato before bed every night now and it works great, far greater than trying to use sugar to last the night.

 

[Peatit]

The most surprising fact is that, it helps me falling asleep; which is otherwise a big issue for me.

 

[jet9]

Starches (potatoes) are good for sleep, problem if I eat starch for dinner I wake up foggy in the morning.