Healing Metabolism Correlation With Weight Gain

[Jsaute21]

I am wondering if there are folks on here that have healed their metabolism without gaining the accessory weight that so many folks on here report going through. I am someone that has either been skinny or muscular my whole life but feel as if i have always had slight thyroid dysfunction. For me, this didn't come with physical symptoms as i was always lean and athletic, but definitely was slower mentally as a youngster in school. However, temps/pulse are still lower than i would like them to be after 2 and a half years of being on here. (I don't track as often as i should - there are definitely times where my temps have gotten up to 98.6 at rest, but lacking the necessary consistency i would like.)

Would like to avoid gaining 15 LBS of annoying fat even if it is just temporary as i know it would be. I have been eating low pufa for 2 and a half years. I think my main mistake is using too many stims (thyroid, nicotine, caffeine, etc.) without eating enough. Now i eat 3,000 calories easy every day but i might still be in a phase where i need to be closer to 3500/4000 or so when using metabolism enhancers.

Curious to folks insights on here.

 

[xeliex]

Raising my hand ️

I unfortunately gained about 15 lbs in the process and am still working on healing.

I believe Haidut had mentioned in the past that if he had to do it all over, he'd consume less fats in their process and focus on getting the sugars to avoid/control the weight gain.

 

[Beastmode]

I put on close to 25 lbs (160 lbs to 185 lbs) after a few years of eating in alignment with Peat's work and only started to lose weight in the past 2-3 months (around 10 lbs.)

I asked Peat about this, as many have probably done as well, and his biggest suggestion was to make sure I'm getting enough calcium in. Not sure if that's the reason why I've dropped 10 lbs, but it does seem to correlate with increase in calcium.

I've always been athletic and never fat most of my life. Typically, whenever I wou

 

[marcar72]

I've always been athletic and never fat most of my life. Typically, whenever I wou

...??

 

[Broken man]

Its interesting that people gain fat on Ray Peat diet. It could be protective mechanism for liver. I think Chris masterjohn wrote about it. It could be from fighting inflammation and also that people are underfed so body is making stores. To be honest I gained fat because of my own ignorance but if you are running on adrenaline, its not good too. You can always drop all the stimulants and you will see. There could be a chance that you are not fully healed.

 

[AnonE]

Yeah this is an interesting problem worth figuring out.

I have a theory that net micronutrient intake might be the most important factor.

Peat-friendly foods are nutritious and give the body what it needs to heal. And people know this and feel this so they eat lots of these foods, which makes sense. But the issue is that getting the micronutrients from consuming lots of OJ, milk/cheese, liver, etc ends up equalling a lot of calories, especially considering that likely none of us eat perfectly Peat friendly foods, I.e. we still keep remnants of our old diets.

I think it's about increasing the micronutrients :: calories ratio, and in my experience the only thing consistently helping with weight control has been vitamin and mineral supplements. Otherwise with my high stress lifestyle and not-yet-healed metabolism I just eat way too much, of any diet.

What I do is basically take the constituents of a good multivitamin, and buy most of the important ones (minerals, fat solubles, water solubles, some choice amino acids) separately so I can ingest higher quality and higher quantity of the micronutrients. This strategy actually has been really helpful so far, and balances my goals well, but of course comes at the risk of taking lots of supps.

Criticism of supps is warranted, but how much better are your foods, even the Peat ones? Grown on nutrient depleted soils, sprayed with roundup, eating animals who consume God knows what, packed with preservatives, etc. I travel a fair bit and I swear street food in poorer countries makes me feel better than many North American restaurants..

 

[DrJ]

Where is your weight gain occurring? The belly area? I think one part of weight gain is high saturated fat intake that people sometimes embark on with Peat.

Another thing I think is insulin, cortisol, and tryptophan/serotonin. When you start trying to drop starches and get more protein, a lot of people turn to muscle meats. This will actually increase the insulin response (more fat generation), decrease thyroid, and typically increase serotonin conversion from tryptophan unless your metabolism and calcium is really good. Also, increasing calorie intake (good) while still not fully stabilized on thyroid will mean more belly fat storage when running on cortisol. It's just something you'll have to live with and monitor while you get well over to the thyroid metabolism. For me, any steps I take to decrease cortisol in a consistent and sustained manner leads to pretty fast and noticeable weight loss.

 

[Beastmode]

...??

Not sure what happened there.

What I intended to share was that whenever I would gain a little weight, pre going 100% into "peating," it was so easy to lean back up in 2-4 weeks going to the gym. What I realized was how much of a fat metabolism/cortisol/etc I was really operating on.

It's been humbling thus far from the body composition standpoint as I refuse to cut any corners and am really committed to getting healthy.

Definitely worth it though and rewarding in other areas (i.e- no more mental fog, higher libido, better sleep quality, etc.)

 

[meatbag]

I am wondering if there are folks on here that have healed their metabolism without gaining the accessory weight that so many folks on here report going through. I am someone that has either been skinny or muscular my whole life but feel as if i have always had slight thyroid dysfunction. For me, this didn't come with physical symptoms as i was always lean and athletic, but definitely was slower mentally as a youngster in school. However, temps/pulse are still lower than i would like them to be after 2 and a half years of being on here. (I don't track as often as i should - there are definitely times where my temps have gotten up to 98.6 at rest, but lacking the necessary consistency i would like.)

Would like to avoid gaining 15 LBS of annoying fat even if it is just temporary as i know it would be. I have been eating low pufa for 2 and a half years. I think my main mistake is using too many stims (thyroid, nicotine, caffeine, etc.) without eating enough. Now i eat 3,000 calories easy every day but i might still be in a phase where i need to be closer to 3500/4000 or so when using metabolism enhancers.

Curious to folks insights on here.

Have you ever tried using methylene blue or thiamine for the mental effects? I get a noticeable effect on recall and processing speed from them, just feel sharper if I get the dose right with those. I notice my temps seem to be consistently higher when I eat more gelatin too. So I think a person can try increasing sodium, improving Ca:P ratio, gelatin to other protein ratio, etc. to try and improve metabolism before just increasing calories.

 

[Cirion]

This will be the unpopular answer but, it's been my own experience. Not only do I think I ate too much dietary fat to begin (my first mistake) I also think dairy in general is a mistake to ingest, especially when unhealthy, and meat too (at least in the amounts I was eating). I thought I needed 200+ gram of protein. I gained 90 lbs on peat inspired diet, worse than probably anyone else here almost. Finally I decided not only dietary fat had to go but also most protein, slashed my intake in to 33%. Time will tell how this experiment goes, as I haven't been doing it very long I admit - however, I've done it long enough to be convinced - as over the weekend when I had plenty of time to rest I had two days in a row of the best waking temps/pulses I have ever had in 6 months yet. Protein lowers blood sugar and really sends you into blood sugar rollar coasters especially when one is stuck in a low metabolic rate as it is (as in hypo). Plus, I am convinced dairy/meat contains estrogens which RP ironically acknowledges is an issue yet recommends we consume dairy. Dairy is sometimes milked from pregnant cows. There is no way that is not affecting someone negatively. That and even skim milk is sky high in tryptophan which went all straight to serotonin for me no matter what I tried. So the answer is basically what someone said Haidut would try - lots and lots of carbs. But I go about 50/50 carb from sugar and starch. I find starch is not too problematic as long as I am super low on fat. So basically I now think not only go low fat, but also low-ish protein. Actually Haidut I believe has even posted studies here showing that limiting or even fasting from protein can have benefits so I'm not completely out of left field here. I say the safe amount of protein is roughly 70 gram and absolutely no higher than 100 gram. Bodybuilders have gotten by on 70 gram so even that's probably more than you need to not lose muscle.

Personally I feel like RP is right about calcium:phosphorus ratio but wrong about how to go about it, at least for one who is hypo. Blindly intaking more calcium is not the answer - if it was, I would have gotten better, but I didn't. In fact RP says that in hypo, calcium metabolism is deranged anyway! No, the better answer IMO is reduce or even cut meat from your life, that gets you a reasonable C:P ratio even without dairy or even without calcium supplements, but you should probably either supplement it or eat some greens for calcium. What's worse, is that EMF's which are rampant in life today, directly interfere with the voltage gate calcium channel, making it at least twice as hard for someone hypo to recover their calcium metabolism, and any calcium you ingest is just gonna exaggerate the effects of EMF on your body and not even get used anyway. I think too like I say it's not just the C:P ratio but total intake of phosphorus - all the meat I was eating , even though I had a good C:P ratio, was not doing my body favors. RP hints (actually not even a hint) that he doesn't think meat is all that helpful anyway in the long run. I just don't agree with him on dairy anymore. Without all the phosphorus from meat, you don't need insane dairy intake to have a good C:P ratio anyway. There is one guy that messages me from time to time about EMF's and how to mitigate them - and he told me the same thing. Dairy exasperates his calcium metabolism problems, and I was disappointed when he told me he emailed Peat and Peat told him just eat more dairy. Sorry, but he's wrong. It is easy for someone who is healthy and/or can tolerate milk to just tell someone else to drink more milk and their problems go away.

At first I thought maybe follow Dr. Morse like principles but I quickly found that sugar was too excitatory, was not satiating, and made me jittery/insomniac. That's why I like starch now. It provides energy and satitaty and calms the nerves. I believe Zachs (former member) used starch exclusively when doing a pufa depletion diet. I see now why he did that. It would have allowed him to be sated on lower calories and be able to tolerate a calorie deficit diet to lose weight on without feeling hungry or low energy. So now basically my diet is vegan-inspired (I say vegan inspired because I have some non-vegan approved cheats) but also peat-inspired so I still do things like avoid pufa, don't eat nuts which are "vegan" approved because of pufa, have some sugar from fruits etc and still have some things like gelatin but not too much because like I say protein is problematic for me.

 

[Jsaute21]

All very good thoughts. Some clarifications/updates - I am far from fat but definitely have some healing to do. Right now i think the two biggest keys for me personally is less stims and more gelatin relative to other protein sources. I am someone who has eaten an abundance of meat since i was 16. From the age of 20-28 i was almost solely consuming muscle meats as my protein source. I notice feeling a boost in euphoria and a slight temp increase when using gelatin. My arms also beef up in almost an instant manner.

As far as stims, i think i just got into a bad habit at work of using too much t3, caffeine, nicotine etc. When one's metabolism is less than perfect(99.9%) of people this is a dangerous cycle. I have considerably dropped my t3/caffeine/nicotine usage and i feel considerably better. I think for me, off setting my tryptophan imbalance and just eating nutrient rich is the main goal.

 

[Cirion]

All very good thoughts. Some clarifications/updates - I am far from fat but definitely have some healing to do. Right now i think the two biggest keys for me personally is less stims and more gelatin relative to other protein sources. I am someone who has eaten an abundance of meat since i was 16. From the age of 20-28 i was almost solely consuming muscle meats as my protein source. I notice feeling a boost in euphoria and a slight temp increase when using gelatin. My arms also beef up in almost an instant manner.

As far as stims, i think i just got into a bad habit at work of using too much t3, caffeine, nicotine etc. When one's metabolism is less than perfect(99.9%) of people this is a dangerous cycle. I have considerably dropped my t3/caffeine/nicotine usage and i feel considerably better. I think for me, off setting my tryptophan imbalance and just eating nutrient rich is the main goal.

Good thoughts. I agree. You also come from a background of heavy weightlifting right? I also have had a history of extensive and excessive meat intake. The problem is that weightlifters have been misled into thinking we need a ton of protein. Now that I know what I know, I don't think anyone, probably not even Ronnie Coleman or other huge bodybuilders, need more than 100 gram of protein a day. In fact, research shows that the more advanced bodybuilders need less protein than novices starting off, so actually he may only need 70 gram. 70 gram is all Mike Mentzer ate a day and he was huge. Carbs are anabolic, protein is not. Protein is only needed up to the point where muscle stops being synthesized. If you're a pro, muscle isn't being synthesized at a fast rate anymore since you're lucky to gain another couple of lbs of muscle a year at that point. The body does not need much protein at all to sustain muscles that you already have. But it does require calories, and you will lose muscle if you're in a harsh deficit. We all know carbs are muscle sparing so the answer is simple, lots and lots of carbs, especially when cutting weight. This is backwards from the logic most meatheads use when cutting weight. Most meatheads say go crazy on protein (I knew one guy on www.bodybuilding.com that ate 350 grams of protein a day while cutting weight) "to prevent muscle loss". They're not wrong, it will prevent muscle loss, but you know what else this does? Suppress your metabolism and make you feel like ****. I know from personal experience =P I've done this diet before. No, you should have very high CARBS both when cutting and when gaining weight! Otherwise your body breaks down proteins to make glucose! This is why it "seems" like you need more protein, because your body is indirectly burning protein to make glucose!

Meatheads say to lower carbs to lose weight and raise to gain weight. I disagree mostly. I say lower fats to lose weight and raise to gain weight. It's fats that are the optional nutrient, not carbs. If your body needs fats, well, you got a massive store of bodyfat it can draw from. Carb storage is very low in comparison so you MUST always eat lots of carbs. Someone who is overweight needs to drop fats to almost zero, whereas someone who is lean can get away with more. Also carbs can turn into fats, so you can survive without ever eating dietary fat in theory.

Agree on stims also. I've removed virtually all my stims.

 

[Jsaute21]

Good thoughts. I agree. You also come from a background of heavy weightlifting right? I also have had a history of extensive and excessive meat intake. The problem is that weightlifters have been misled into thinking we need a ton of protein. Now that I know what I know, I don't think anyone, probably not even Ronnie Coleman or other huge bodybuilders, need more than 100 gram of protein a day. In fact, research shows that the more advanced bodybuilders need less protein than novices starting off, so actually he may only need 70 gram. 70 gram is all Mike Mentzer ate a day and he was huge. Carbs are anabolic, protein is not. Protein is only needed up to the point where muscle stops being synthesized. If you're a pro, muscle isn't being synthesized at a fast rate anymore since you're lucky to gain another couple of lbs of muscle a year at that point. The body does not need much protein at all to sustain muscles that you already have. But it does require calories, and you will lose muscle if you're in a harsh deficit. We all know carbs are muscle sparing so the answer is simple, lots and lots of carbs, especially when cutting weight. This is backwards from the logic most meatheads use when cutting weight. Most meatheads say go crazy on protein (I knew one guy on www.bodybuilding.com that ate 350 grams of protein a day while cutting weight) "to prevent muscle loss". They're not wrong, it will prevent muscle loss, but you know what else this does? Suppress your metabolism and make you feel like ****. I know from personal experience =P I've done this diet before. No, you should have very high CARBS both when cutting and when gaining weight! Otherwise your body breaks down proteins to make glucose! This is why it "seems" like you need more protein, because your body is indirectly burning protein to make glucose!

Meatheads say to lower carbs to lose weight and raise to gain weight. I disagree mostly. I say lower fats to lose weight and raise to gain weight. It's fats that are the optional nutrient, not carbs. If your body needs fats, well, you got a massive store of bodyfat it can draw from. Carb storage is very low in comparison so you MUST always eat lots of carbs. Someone who is overweight needs to drop fats to almost zero, whereas someone who is lean can get away with more. Also carbs can turn into fats, so you can survive without ever eating dietary fat in theory.

Agree on stims also. I've removed virtually all my stims.

Yes - I come from a fairly extensive athletic/weight lifting background. Played pro lacrosse for a few years and have been obsessed with lifting since i was 15. It led to me eating copious protein, and ultimately under eating carbs even though i was blessed with a good metabolism where carbs never impacted my weight adversely (Even bad carbs like bread, pasta etc.) Definitely have regrets for falling into fitness circles and reading into the excessive protein/low carb propoganda. Total garbage.

Carbs are absolutely key. I do not think stims are bad...just think they need to be limited especially when metabolic rate is still recovering. I know that caffeine/t3/nicotine in moderation still aids my performance both mentally and physically. Just think it is a very femme fetale for a recovering metabolism. You are probably smart to stay away but i notice positive symptoms when dosing in moderation.

As far as protein needs - i think the quality of protein is vastly important. Which is why gelatin is so key...the satiation and improved gut health is noticeable from it for me. I think a damaged metabolism can occur for so many different reasons but for people with a history of over abusing muscle meats, gelatin is a huge piece to the puzzle.

 

[Cirion]

I think the problem with stims as most people use them as a crutch for a broken metabolism and/or lack of proper sleep. Especially if you look at the average American who "can't survive without coffee". I still go for a cup of coffee on weekdays as I haven't yet solved my sleep problems. On weekends its fine because I can sleep in till noon. The only stimulant I believe now may have some place with more serious cases is pure T3 (not T4). T4 is not helpful for someone with severe metabolic disorders. They need the therapeutic effects of shots of straight T3. If I still can't get better with my new strategies I will probably start taking T3. But I did have a good day on Sunday, so I think I maybe making progress.

Totally agree on quality of protein. I don't believe muscle meats are quality proteins anymore. Only protein I get now is plant protein & some gelatin. Seems to do me good. However I have found I can over-do it even on gelatin! I still limit myself to around 70 gram. I over-did it yesterday on gelatin and I felt bad even on that! Definitely, there's a sweet spot, and for me it's like 70 gram.