Why Is High Protein A Good Thing?

Elephanto

Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
820
@Wagner83

I meant the factors to optimize glycemic responses, which will have a beneficial effect on many parameters including but not limited to the hormonal profile. For instance Chromium normalizing blood glucose can hypothetically prevent pathogenic growth like that of Candida Albicans. This is a major issue with fructose malabsorption, which lays in the gut to promote such growth (I think substances with adhesive properties like Gluten and Casein also promote this, as well as anything that isn't 100% absorbed in an individual like Lactose; I think you already read me say that). Such malabsorption is shown to happen past certain points (I've read 20g of Fructose in average people, less than 10g in people with severe malabsorption) so it can be pretty easily attained. Some other factors like RDA of B vitamins, Potassium, Magnesium, Zinc, Calcium, good CO2 levels, keeping stress low while eating and digesting, regular physical activity etc.

About meals lowering T, I find it true from experience. Especially an high sugar or high mufa one, but generally my Test will be higher in the day up to my first meal. I've had an history of very fluctuating hormones so somehow it makes a noticeable difference, and this really became more significant after like 3 weeks of IF.

I don't know about the parallel, there are so many differences. In many ways, IF is health-promoting. We can't say this of Keto diets, the only real way is that it probably decreases bacterial feeding since they favor sugar; but in many ways it is health-degrading. IF lets the gut and organs rest, it is truly a stress to be constantly digesting and it is a long process, it allows for the repair of linings and recovery of the gut's integrity, the Endotoxin reduction having a decreasing effect on Estrogen, Serotonin, general inflammation and cancer-promoting processes. The net effect on Cortisol will depend a lot on the individual I think, for instance only in obese invididuals was a decrease in insulin sensitivity shown. In my experience, it is the opposite (though I also reduced Fructose) where I feel that my glycemic response is always great and I never get close to diabetic states which has sometimes happened in past years. The obese people of the study may be more stressed individuals in general (smart people that use food to reduce their chronic stress which is less damaging than stressed starving people) and this is where IF wouldn't be beneficial I think, when one can't willfully exert a certain control on his/her mental stress. I also think you don't have to be rigid about it. Doing it about 5 days a week is good enough for me, sometimes a shorter fasting window or cutting it early with a tsp of honey if I'm hungry (usually would be stress-induced) is fine too. I would reserve the "heaviest" of my trainings or playing sports for 2 hours on these "refeed" days. I still need to figure what else impacts IF's success, I think being able to store glycogen optimally is also very important which has to do with liver health, and probably androgens are very helpful by restricting stress. Evolutionnarily, it makes a lot of sense that men would be more adapted to fasting.

At worst, IF is something to consider doing temporarily when you have gut issues. Like you I don't know how healthy it really is (or the optimal frequency, the optimal fasting window etc), but it feels right to do and that feeling is stronger when I'm not too rigid about it. Don't fight the stress but instead adapt to not feel stress in a fasting window (which really is beneficial in all aspects of life) and if it comes up you eat earlier, and you try again the next day it's really no big deal.
 

Wagner83

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
3,295
I meant the factors to optimize glycemic responses, which will have a beneficial effect on many parameters including but not limited to the hormonal profile. For instance Chromium normalizing blood glucose can hypothetically prevent pathogenic growth like that of Candida Albicans. This is a major issue with fructose malabsorption, which lays in the gut to promote such growth (I think substances with adhesive properties like Gluten and Casein also promote this, as well as anything that isn't 100% absorbed in an individual like Lactose; I think you already read me say that). Such malabsorption is shown to happen past certain points (I've read 20g of Fructose in average people, less than 10g in people with severe malabsorption) so it can be pretty easily attained. Some other factors like RDA of B vitamins, Potassium, Magnesium, Zinc, Calcium, good CO2 levels, keeping stress low while eating and digesting, regular physical activity etc..
Do you have the link on people not being able to process more than 20 g of fructose? Wouldn't we notice obvious negative effects like diarrhea or stomach cramps?

About meals lowering T, I find it true from experience. Especially an high sugar or high mufa one, but generally my Test will be higher in the day up to my first meal. I've had an history of very fluctuating hormones so somehow it makes a noticeable difference, and this really became more significant after like 3 weeks of IF.
I would be watchful with such responses, feeling androgenic, good mental clarity and driven while fasting to notice the opposite upon breaking the fast would make me wonder how could it work long term given the people who reported good effects, even feeling high at first and then not. This being said it should be normal not to need to eat all the time. I was thinking that if one can stop eating 4 hours before bed then it could be ideal in terms of letting the digestive system rest, repair as well as improving sleep quality. When IFing people often skip breakfast rather than eat dinner early enough. Of course cortisol is higher in the morning but maybe it isn't ideal to keep the stress hormones going for hours in order to feel motivated, driven etc.. Tyw seemed to successfully do intermittent fasting with a huge breakfast and less/no food in the evening.


I don't know about the parallel, there are so many differences. In many ways, IF is health-promoting. We can't say this of Keto diets, the only real way is that it probably decreases bacterial feeding since they favor sugar; but in many ways it is health-degrading. IF lets the gut and organs rest, it is truly a stress to be constantly digesting and it is a long process, it allows for the repair of linings and recovery of the gut's integrity, the Endotoxin reduction having a decreasing effect on Estrogen, Serotonin, general inflammation and cancer-promoting processes. The net effect on Cortisol will depend a lot on the individual I think, for instance only in obese invididuals was a decrease in insulin sensitivity shown. In my experience, it is the opposite (though I also reduced Fructose) where I feel that my glycemic response is always great and I never get close to diabetic states which has sometimes happened in past years. The obese people of the study may be more stressed individuals in general (smart people that use food to reduce their chronic stress which is less damaging than stressed starving people) and this is where IF wouldn't be beneficial I think, when one can't willfully exert a certain control on his/her mental stress. I also think you don't have to be rigid about it. Doing it about 5 days a week is good enough for me, sometimes a shorter fasting window or cutting it early with a tsp of honey if I'm hungry (usually would be stress-induced) is fine too. I would reserve the "heaviest" of my trainings or playing sports for 2 hours on these "refeed" days. I still need to figure what else impacts IF's success, I think being able to store glycogen optimally is also very important which has to do with liver health, and probably androgens are very helpful by restricting stress. Evolutionnarily, it makes a lot of sense that men would be more adapted to fasting.

At worst, IF is something to consider doing temporarily when you have gut issues. Like you I don't know how healthy it really is (or the optimal frequency, the optimal fasting window etc), but it feels right to do and that feeling is stronger when I'm not too rigid about it. Don't fight the stress but instead adapt to not feel stress in a fasting window (which really is beneficial in all aspects of life) and if it comes up you eat earlier, and you try again the next day it's really no big deal.
The only parallel was about people feeling great at first and then crashing (this being said some seem to not crash at all). What do you qualify as diabetic states or good insulin responses in terms of reactions to meals? Your approach seem pretty sound, thanks for sharing your ideas.
 
Last edited:

Elephanto

Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
820
@Wagner83
"Do you have the link on people not being able to process more than 20 g of fructose? Wouldn't we notice obvious negative effects like diarrhea or stomach cramps?"
It's not about not being able to process more than 20g, but that a rate of malabsorption appears past a certain point, and this point differs between individuals. Like past 10g, someone could start only absorb 95% etc while 100% was absorbed under 10g. I do think we can perceive those symptoms, sometimes it can be some kind of stomach grunting or "bubbles", topical and transient discomfort, and the more serious ones can appear many hours after especially when transit is delayed by the opioid effect of sugar binging, or the ingestion of opioid peptides.
Incomplete fructose absorption is now accepted within the gastroenterological community as a consequence of normal physiology in which the absorptive capacity of the gut is exceeded (Barrett and Gibson, 2007). This capacity varies widely within the population for reasons that are yet unknown; however, it has been estimated that up to 50% of the U.S. population (Gibson et al., 2007) is unable to absorb 25 g of pure fructose as evaluated in clinical studies. In clinical trials, it was shown that up to 80% of healthy controls were unable to absorb a 50 g fructose load (Braden, 2009).
Fructose Malabsorption and Intolerance: Effects of Fructose with and without Simultaneous Glucose Ingestion
People with severe malabsorption report symptoms at very low levels, which is what the low FODMAP diet is partly based on and has some reported success; and the ratio of fructose/glucose in a food item seems to be an important factor, at least according to the experiments done by those who designed this diet. For instance some fruits having additional free fructose.

I don't think "feeling high" is accurate to describe my experience, so again drawing a parallel between anything that makes you feel high and crash may not be relevant. This is vague speculation, I'd rather discuss specific effects felt if you try it and we could then compare effects and hypothezize on what causes them. The reason some people naturally/instinctively start IF early is the lack of appetite in the morning, I know in ayurvedic and traditional chinese medicine they claim digestion (probably implying gastric acid secretion) is greatest in the late afternoon. Don't know if there's a western confirmation of this but it seems intuitive to me. Cortisol being highest in the morning may also depend on glycogen storage capacity, when a calm state of mind and a generally stable blood sugar combine with the beneficial daylight condition it might not be a cause of concern and darkness may be more stressing. In western life, people in the morning stress themselves willfully by rushing, waking up too early to work (when it's very dark), drinking a large coffee they may not support metabolically etc which isn't true of many traditional cultures. I would make sure to hydrate well first thing in the morning too, it can also be a cause of stress and warm water would have another anti-stressing effect. Either way would probably be fine.

In response to meals, basically not feeling sugar sickness, weak, an enervating effect or something like that (haven't had that in a long time so I'm probably forgetting some features) but I think it's more important to look at your general blood sugar picture, wether you ever have those bouts of weakness, mental fog/confusion, short loss of vision, feeling that your muscles are weak or that it would be hard to sprint as fast as you can, the presence of blood sugar rollercoasters, lack of energy (dr. Patrick mentioning Fructose as an ATP trap is very interesting to me, something I'm exploring lately and did find a few studies about; and I think this is relevant at high intake only and that low intake has net benefits). I might not get an instant negative effect from drinking a can of soda but if I drink a few ones daily and it coincides with an overall picture that is less than ideal, it might be a good idea to investigate and isolate. At least that was my process which led to ameliorations but like I mentioned before, I did several changes at the same time.

edit :
Here's something funny :
High rates of fructose malabsorption are associated with reduced liver fat in obese African Americans. - PubMed - NCBI
There has been studies posted here showing that increasing ATP can reverse liver damage and liver fat accumulation.
 
Last edited:

Elephanto

Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
820
The body should adapt to greater intakes over the times (regardless if eating more is desirable or not):
Fructose/Liver Function
Should but does it happen realistically ?
In a randomized, double-blind, dose-response study, healthy individuals were able to tolerate 25 grams of fructose but when 50 grams of fructose was administered, 80% of patients exhibited malabsorption (based on breath tests measuring hydrogen and methane) with approximately 50% of subjects reporting mild to moderate belching, bloating or diarrhea.5 Another study showed that almost 40% of patients exhibited fructose malabsorption at an intake of 25 grams, and 66% of patients at an intake of 50 grams.(9)
Is Fructose Malabsorption a Cause of Irritable Bowel Syndrome?

It really comes down to the individual and self-experimentation. SIBO has been suggested to negatively affect fructose absorption although one study finds it only does significantly for the sugar alcohols and for Lactose. As a vicious circle, gut permeability would favor malabsorption and fructose is suggested to increase gut permeability.
Fructokinase, Fructans, Intestinal Permeability, and Metabolic Syndrome: An Equine Connection?
Fructose: A Dietary Sugar in Crosstalk with Microbiota Contributing to the Development and Progression of Non-Alcoholic Liver Disease

The safest approach seems to be to have small amounts at different instances. Even with IF I can do this, for instance starting the feeding window with a tsp of honey or maple syrup or an orange, eating my largest meal an hour later, maybe another orange 2 hours later, and similarly later some other instances if I feel the desire.
 
Last edited:

lvysaur

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
2,287
if you crave protein you should eat it lol. I feel like protein craving is one of the most straightforward, unmistakable cravings in existence.

If you don't you shouldn't. Nothing worse than gram negative bacteria.
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
988
if you crave protein you should eat it lol. I feel like protein craving is one of the most straightforward, unmistakable cravings in existence.

If you don't you shouldn't. Nothing worse than gram negative bacteria.

This.

I agree and would like to add: following one’s cravings when one is in a relaxed state is a pretty decent way to remain healthy; cravings which are an immediate/intermediate reaction to stress are harder to gauge - some good, some bad, some temporary crutches. I also think if you find yourself craving something you rarely do crave, it usually is a good sign you need it.

I would love to see some studies behind the phenomena of craving. Research seems to be lacking, it is also probably very hard to document.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
Nothing worse than gram negative bacteria.
Except for all the things that are worse. Like some of the gram positives.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
Not that I like LPS.
But eg some of the staphs (eg MRSA), some of the clostridia (eg difficile), some of the streptococci (there are some that have an affinity for vulnerable heartvalves).
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom