A1 Vs A2 Milk - Is The Devil Really In The Milk?

[michael94]

Who do you trust?
I'd have to look at who funded the studies showing the difference in proteins to gauge if there's really a difference. Even outside of the A2 milk company, for all we know it can be makers of sheep cheese who've taken a bit of a hit from low-fat clans. Whose really spearheading these studies. Buffalo & especially camel milk products cost more than gold these days. When perusing the isles of whole foods I often hear a lot of commentary that translates into $$$ for niche products. The superfood concept of marketing has bled into the dairy industry it seems.

Seems it has

 

[Broken man]

This is really interesting thing. My father has celiac disease, he is also working on the cow farm and is drinking about 1-2 litres of raw cow milk every day. I am celiac too, I was diagnosed few months after him so we have the disease for almost same amount of time. I have celiac disease for about 4 years now and even I was using tons of supplements which cost alot of money, doing "ray peat" diet, am young, I still cant tolerate tiny amounts of gluten while my father even he has big belly and is bald can eat slice of wheat bread and will notice nothing. Why?.....

 

[Logan-]

Article: How Goat's Milk Is Healthier Than Cow's Milk

 

[Broken man]

Article: How Goat's Milk Is Healthier Than Cow's Milk

I am drinking goats milk but I cant drink it either without caprylic acid.

 

[mt_dreams]

Article: How Goat's Milk Is Healthier Than Cow's Milk

thanks for the papers, I'll be looking them over soon. I currently drink local skim jersey, but it would be nice to get to the bottom of this as jersey does contain a bit of A1 content.

 

[mt_dreams]

Article: How Goat's Milk Is Healthier Than Cow's Milk

Sorry for switching from protein to fat .... Do you know anything regarding the de-fattening process with regards to goat's milk? All the goat milk available in my area has been de-fatted to either 2 or 3.5%. Does this process effect the fat molecules?

 

[Logan-]

I don't know about that process. Found this: How Is Fat Separated From Milk to Make Skim Milk?

 

[mt_dreams]

I don't know about that process. Found this: How Is Fat Separated From Milk to Make Skim Milk?

It would seem that goat milk fat adjusting uses the centrifuge method. I would imagine this causes the same potential issues that occur when converting cream to butter using agitation.

 

[Logan-]

I do not know, hopefully someone with knowledge will give you a reply.

 

[Carrum]

I've just retried A2 milk and it still causes me problems with gas/bloating.

Lactose free is the only milk I can consume in any quantity.

Who is a2 Milk® for?
Our milk naturally contains only the A2 protein type (A1 protein free), which may help some people avoid discomfort from milk. You should not drink a2 Milk® if you are allergic to milk or have been medically diagnosed with lactose intolerance.

What makes it different compared to lactose-free milk?
a2 Milk® is 100% real milk that naturally contains only the A2 protein type (A1 free), which may help some people avoid discomfort from milk. a2 Milk® contains lactose. Lactose-free milk is real milk that adds the lactase enzyme that pre-digests lactose.

Frequently Asked Questions | a2 Milk® USA FAQs

 

[Amazoniac]

When I asked him a while ago he said:

"If protein digestion is poor, I suppose that difference would become more apparent."
and

"Although I don't know of any evidence that ingesting the different caseins produces effects similar to injecting the peptides into the brain, poor digestion would create a condition in which it might happen"

Ray Peat: " Its a peptide derived from partial digestion of casein; good digestion should reduce it to amino acids. "

I wonder how often it is complete enough to not matter.

- Biologically Active Compounds in Milk (!)

Spoiler

- Values for digestible indispensable amino acid scores (DIAAS) for some dairy and plant proteins may better describe protein quality than values calculated using the concept for protein digestibility-corrected amino acid scores (PDCAAS)

Spoiler

(Read limitations.)

[3] Invited review: Amino acid bioavailability and digestibility in pig feed ingredients: Terminology and application

 

[Kvothe]

Much has been said about ß-casomorphin (7) from evil A1-milk. I wonder how potent other opioid agonist peptides produced from various milk proteins are. α-Lactorphin is made from α-lactalbumin, which is found in higher concentrations in human milk than in bovine milk. It would also be interesting to know more about how the balance of different amounts of peptides acting as opioid agonist, and the ones antagonizing the receptor proteins affect things.
I think casein is much more digestible than meat proteins, and definitely the standard plant proteins like soy, corn, and wheat.

 

[Amazoniac]

Much has been said about ß-casomorphin (7) from evil A1-milk. I wonder how potent other opioid agonist peptides produced from various milk proteins are. α-Lactorphin is made from α-lactalbumin, which is found in higher concentrations in human milk than in bovine milk. It would also be interesting to know more about how the balance of different amounts of peptides acting as opioid agonist, and the ones antagonizing the receptor proteins affect things.
I think casein is much more digestible than meat proteins, and definitely the standard plant proteins like soy, corn, and wheat.



View attachment 16238

But the more peptides that are potentially problematic we have, the more concerning it gets to have it incomplete, it tends to get worse when less is broken down. It's worth comparing with the products of other proteid-rich foods.

 

[Kvothe]

But the more peptides that are potentially problematic we have, the more concerning it gets to have it incomplete, it tends to get worse when less is broken down. It's worth comparing with the products of other proteid-rich foods.

Yes, but i suspect that other proteins, from meat for instance, produce many such concerning peptides when digestion is weak, as well. Some are already know, there are probably many we don't yet know about. I already showed some evidence showing that meat proteins result in the production of much higher amounts of toxic putrefaction products, compared to casein. All of these factors have to be taken into account when evaluating a protein. I tolerate higher amounts of protein much better than I used to, but I feel that a large portion of meat is usually more upsetting for me than a large portion of cheese.

 

[Amazoniac]

Yes, but i suspect that other proteins, from meat for instance, produce many such concerning peptides when digestion is weak, as well. Some are already know, there are probably many we don't yet know about. I already showed some evidence showing that meat proteins result in the production of much higher amounts of toxic putrefaction products, compared to casein. All of these factors have to be taken into account when evaluating a protein. I tolerate higher amounts of protein much better than I used to, but I feel that a large portion of meat is usually more upsetting for me than a large portion of cheese.

We can't lump all meats together and reduce them to fish meal, each may behave differently, and I would also be careful with the interpretation of casein because they provided it purified; it's lower in tryptophan and cysteine (they measured crap levels of indole and phenol, hydrogen sulfide, and ammonia) than less processed dairy products.

And just because such metabolites were decreased, it doesn't mean that it's going to be better overall. The rats was in robust shape and casein was the sole source of protein in their diet, in reality the person can be weakened and it will conflict with the digestion of other proteids.
- Dairy Protein Digestion: Life in the Slow Lane | International Milk Genomics Consortium

The peptides that are deemed immunomodulatory can fuel inflammation depending on the context, and the complexity of dairy proteins tends to make it problematic. I doubt that a carnivore would fare better on cheese (making up for nutrients).

 

[tca300]

I wonder how often it is complete enough to not matter.

- Biologically Active Compounds in Milk (!)

Spoiler

View attachment 16236

- Values for digestible indispensable amino acid scores (DIAAS) for some dairy and plant proteins may better describe protein quality than values calculated using the concept for protein digestibility-corrected amino acid scores (PDCAAS)

Spoiler

View attachment 16237
(Read limitations.)

[3] Invited review: Amino acid bioavailability and digestibility in pig feed ingredients: Terminology and application

Disclaimer, this is anecdotal with a small test subject and gene pool size.

For the past ~3 years I have averaged 2+ gallons per day ( then before that, 1 gallon for about 3 years, so 6+ years straight with at least 1 gallon of milk per day), wife about a quart, and daughters 1/2 gallon each. I've done A2 cows milk and Goat milk experiments with myself, wife and daughters for over a months time with each. The only differences we noticed was cost of food went up, and A2 makes my belly feel icky. But obviously others have had different results, so self experimentation is important.

 

[LucyL]

My daughter can drink A2 milk without the stomach pain/headache she gets from regular milk. The rest of us don't notice any differences (and don't react badly to regular milk).

 

[kierkegaardian]

My daughter can drink A2 milk without the stomach pain/headache she gets from regular milk. The rest of us don't notice any differences (and don't react badly to regular milk).

My own daughter and son get eczema and green diarrhea from even small amounts of standard dairy. Like, even if my wife eats a cheesey salad and breastfeeds my son, he gets green poop. But the kids can drink A2 milk and goat milk in gigantic quantities without even getting gas.

 

[lvysaur]

Yes, but i suspect that other proteins, from meat for instance, produce many such concerning peptides when digestion is weak, as well. Some are already know, there are probably many we don't yet know about. I already showed some evidence showing that meat proteins result in the production of much higher amounts of toxic putrefaction products, compared to casein.

I agree with this.

Qualitatively, A1 is to A2 as Beef is to Fish. A1 is dense and heavy and sits "like a rock" in the stomach. while A2 is light and airy and you could basically keep eating it forever without issue. This is similar to sheep and goat milk, they're very light and their cheeses are also light.

I started having real issues with A1 milk after experiencing COVID. The COVID issue was basically a strange wheezing + chest inflammation sensation after eating cheese. But it was absent if I ate goat cheese, and very slight if I ate buffalo cheese.

I was still drinking A2 prior to COVID but mainly because it felt lighter, not because of any real issues. The COVID issue is mostly gone now and I've eaten A1 cheese without problem

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

The Inflammation from A1 Milk is Mind-Boggling
Posted on February 20, 2013

A1 Milk

For some people, cow’s milk is simply devastating to health. We can wish for milk to be healthy because of its calcium and protein. We can hope that milk is better if it’s raw or organic.

We cannot get around the fact that one of the proteins in milk – A1 casein – is highly inflammatory for some people. In susceptible individuals, A1 casein is cleaved to form a powerful immune-modulating opiate called casomorphin.

Not all cows produce A1 casein. It comes from Holstein and Friesian cows who are the dominant breeds in western Europe, North America and Australia. Milk cows in Africa, Asia, Iceland and southern Europe make milk with mostly A2 casein. Those countries have a lower incidence of the conditions discussed below.

Milk that has predominantly or exclusively A2 casein is fine for most people. I find this in my clinic again and again. Goat’s milk is A2. And so is milk from Jersey cows. Dairy products that are mostly fat – like butter – are also fine.
Which conditions suffer from A1 milk?

A1 casein is a trigger for Type 1 diabetes (the research around this is fascinating). It is also highly implicated in coronary artery disease and autoimmune disease.

Casein is involved – with gluten – in Autism and Schizophrenia. Evidence is that casomorphin is more damaging to the brain than the gliadorphin from gluten.

Casomorphin’s drug-like effect explains why it worsens anxiety and mood disorders, and causes cravings for dairy and sugar. (Causes withdrawal-symptoms when it’s stopped.)

The inflammation from A1 casein causes lymphatic congestion, metabolic suppression, and weight gain.

A1 milk can worsen acne, eczema, upper respiratory infections, asthma and allergies.

It causes digestive problems, and not because of the lactose. Because of the massive histamine release from casomorphin.

In my hormonal practice, I see that A1 casein drives endometriosis. I believe that it does so because it of its inflammatory, immune-disruptive effect. I have yet to see one case of endometriosis that did not improve by avoiding A1 milk.
Who is affected?

Some people are fine with A1 casein (they don’t make the casomorphin). There is no simple test. It is not an allergy.

The problem occurs in people who A) lack the digestive enzyme to inactivate casomorphin, or B) have intestinal permeability which allows the reactive peptide to enter the blood stream. (Or both A and B.)

The clinical clue that I watch for is: recurring upper respiratory infections as a child. Either ear infections, bronchitis or tonsillitis. Those infections were driven by A1 casein, and in adulthood, the same immune-disruption manifests as other inflammatory conditions.
Does Raw Help?

Certain types of pasteurisation increase the amount of casomorphin in A1 dairy, so raw milk may be better. My instinct is that raw doesn’t solve the problem. We need to move away from Holstein cows.

If you want to know more about A1 casein, please read New Zealand Professor Keith Woodford’s book Devil in the Milk: Illness, Health, and the Politics of A1 and A2 Milk. I spent an entire afternoon reading it (like a kid reading Stephen King), and I love his scientist-style of writing. When referring to various studies, he takes the extra step to “run the numbers” himself.

The dairy industry in Australia and New Zealand is breeding the A2 allele into its herds, and A2 milk is now available in most supermarkets (labelled as A2).

I would love to hear from other practitioners. Please comment.

Yours in Health, Lara Briden

I know this is an older thread, but wanted to comment here because someone else might make the same connection.

Your comments in this thread have helped me tremendously in possibly pinpointing why my milk intake lately, might be the cause of some strong allergic reactions. And I suspect it might be the regular milk. I do buy organic milk but it is the A1 version.

I never was a big milk drinker so I never realized the connection. But now, it seems, every time I drink more regular milk, I a) get a very stuffy nose afterwards in which it is hard to breath and need to take a decongestant b) bloating C) stomach distress. EDIT: I also got some weird bumps on my cheeks which I never had before as I’ve always had good skin, but now with the increased milk drinking, I’ve noticed this.

So perhaps I am allergic?

It doesn’t surprise me because my father could not drink regular milk as a child. He had to drink Goat milk. So it must run in my family. I love cream in my coffee, which doesn’t seem to affect me as much. So now, I’m going to try an A2 milk test, and goat milk to see how I do.

Interestingly, cheese doesn’t seem to bother me as much.