IP6 For Iron Chelation

charlie

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I don't get email notices like I'm supposed--on this or some other threads.
Unsubscribe, then subscribe back to the thread and that will fix it. :hattip
 

tankasnowgod

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I just wanted to note that
after I saw my labs (above) showing the rather strange results,
with ferritin lowered dramatically below range
and serum iron not much affected,
I stopped taking the IP6.

When I went to donate blood after seeing those labs,
the quick serum iron test they do on you at Red Cross
was 14.9
So, an improvement over my usual 16 or 17 results.

And today--about two months later--it was 14.1
So...coming along.

I just wanted to point out that the only iron related number blood donation centers check (at least in my experience) is hemoglobin. As far as I know, there is no benefit to having a hemoglobin number lower in the range. The benefits of iron reduction come from lower overall body iron stores. Personally, higher range hemoglobin with near deficiency iron stores is exactly what I'm aiming for.

I have mentioned this in other threads, but one of the challenges I experienced when lowering high iron stores (Ferritin was initially 444) was keeping hemoglobin up. I personally found that a B complex or an iron free multivitamin like Life Extension Two Per Day worked to keep hemoglobin up, even while ferrritin was dropping. My first hemoglobin reading was 15.5. On my most recent donation it was 15.6 (highest hemoglobin reading ever), while ferritin tested at 18 a few weeks later (which was my lowest ferritin reading ever). So you really can't go by hemoglobin as a marker for overall iron stores. It may be reflecting good or high levels of folate, B6, or B12.

Based on the lab numbers you posted before (ferritin at 28, TSAT at 18%, high iron binding capacity), you're at that near deficiency spot that iron researchers aim for. You can donate as long as hemoglobin remains over 12.5, but there hasn't really been any studies about benefits of having ferritin lower than 25, and you might start experiencing issues due to low iron at this point.
 
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narouz

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I just wanted to point out that the only iron related number blood donation centers check (at least in my experience) is hemoglobin. As far as I know, there is no benefit to having a hemoglobin number lower in the range. The benefits of iron reduction come from lower overall body iron stores. Personally, higher range hemoglobin with near deficiency iron stores is exactly what I'm aiming for.

I have mentioned this in other threads, but one of the challenges I experienced when lowering high iron stores (Ferritin was initially 444) was keeping hemoglobin up. I personally found that a B complex or an iron free multivitamin like Life Extension Two Per Day worked to keep hemoglobin up, even while ferrritin was dropping. My first hemoglobin reading was 15.5. On my most recent donation it was 15.6 (highest hemoglobin reading ever), while ferritin tested at 18 a few weeks later (which was my lowest ferritin reading ever). So you really can't go by hemoglobin as a marker for overall iron stores. It may be reflecting good or high levels of folate, B6, or B12.

Based on the lab numbers you posted before (ferritin at 28, TSAT at 18%, high iron binding capacity), you're at that near deficiency spot that iron researchers aim for. You can donate as long as hemoglobin remains over 12.5, but there hasn't really been any studies about benefits of having ferritin lower than 25, and you might start experiencing issues due to low iron at this point.

Thanks, tank.
Yes, I think you may be right about what that test is.
When I would ask them at the different blood donation places I've used over the years
they would tell me they were screening for iron--
too high or low and they wouldn't let you donate.
Historically, they would always say I was in the upper range,
but not so high as to not be allowed to donate.

So I just figured it must be serum iron they were measuring.
But I could easily be wrong and thus dealing very stupidly with my iron situation.:bigtears:

Well, actually, I'm pretty sure I was in fact being stupid about this,
because a good guy started helping me with this whole iron thing.
I got more extensive iron tests,
he took a look,
and said I was indeed badly LOW on iron after that IP6 episode
and after another round of LactoFerrin dosing for about a month.:clown:

How to defend/explain myself...
1. I have been plagued for a couple years by pretty extreme inflammatory symptoms
(in my lower back/hips);
so I was just working from the Peat notion of iron being linked to inflammation.
2. my ferritin has been very high at times in the last few years
3. whenever I would donate blood they would say my iron was at the high-ish end of the scale.
4. I've been plagued by what seems to be a yeast overgrowth in my gut,
and I've read that yeast thrives on high iron in the gut (and other minerals),
so this was another notion floating around in my head--to deplete iron and thus deprive the yeast of it.
So...I just got it into my head that my iron was high, and was thinking like a dumb robot.

Anyhow, this smart guy helped me in understanding my iron labs--that I was actually low.
I ate beets and have been pretty much where I should be for a while now.

I haven't ruled out the possibility that I might actually have killed the yeast pretty effectively
with my iron-depletion dosings of IP6 and LactoFerrin and blood donating.
I took Nystatin at the same time, and my tongue did get dramatically clean and pink.

But on the other hand, at the same time I was experimenting with a new thyroid supplement regimen:
T3 only (vs the NDT I had been on).
If I had to bet, I would bet that switch was the main causative factor--
many other big and positive things started happening with that change.
But...I did the IP6/LactoFerrin/Nystatin at the same time, so...I can't be sure.

In any case, I've been having great improvements lately.
I hope here before long to post a review of my experiments and progress.
 
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narouz

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YAY for narouz and great improvements!!!:happy:

Thanks, BigP!
I'm glad the smart guy I referred to above
came along and kinda smacked me and said:
"Hey dummy--your iron is plenty low enough already!
Cut it out with the LactoFerrin and the IP^!!"
;)
 

SQu

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Jan 3, 2014
Messages
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Glad you're getting some breakthroughs narouz! T3 has done lots for me too, particularly re digestion. Ndt - nothing.
 

Travis

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Jul 14, 2016
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Almonds are high in IP6, but they also have some PUFA as well.

You can buy raw almonds from California; there is an exemption for anything under 100lbs. All of the the store-bought almonds are either steam-pasteurized of fumigated with carcinogenic and explosive propylene oxide. This is mandated by law.

PPO has a highly reactive epoxide bond. I would expect it to react with, and chemically bond to some of the phytochemicals in the almond skins. The result would be synthetic compounds that have no historical precedent in the human diet.
 
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fumigated with carcinogenic and explosive propylene oxide. This is mandated by law.

Yuck....almonds are delicious, but they hardly seem worth this risk. Wiki says it's a "probable human carcinogen".....it's used on pistachios too.

I ate tons of both during my LCHF days. I wonder if this (now banned) NHRA racing fuel can damage the gut lining???
 

amethyst

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Oct 27, 2016
Messages
533
Thanks, tank.
Yes, I think you may be right about what that test is.
When I would ask them at the different blood donation places I've used over the years
they would tell me they were screening for iron--
too high or low and they wouldn't let you donate.
Historically, they would always say I was in the upper range,
but not so high as to not be allowed to donate.

So I just figured it must be serum iron they were measuring.
But I could easily be wrong and thus dealing very stupidly with my iron situation.:bigtears:

Well, actually, I'm pretty sure I was in fact being stupid about this,
because a good guy started helping me with this whole iron thing.
I got more extensive iron tests,
he took a look,
and said I was indeed badly LOW on iron after that IP6 episode
and after another round of LactoFerrin dosing for about a month.:clown:

How to defend/explain myself...
1. I have been plagued for a couple years by pretty extreme inflammatory symptoms
(in my lower back/hips);
so I was just working from the Peat notion of iron being linked to inflammation.
2. my ferritin has been very high at times in the last few years
3. whenever I would donate blood they would say my iron was at the high-ish end of the scale.
4. I've been plagued by what seems to be a yeast overgrowth in my gut,
and I've read that yeast thrives on high iron in the gut (and other minerals),
so this was another notion floating around in my head--to deplete iron and thus deprive the yeast of it.
So...I just got it into my head that my iron was high, and was thinking like a dumb robot.

Anyhow, this smart guy helped me in understanding my iron labs--that I was actually low.
I ate beets and have been pretty much where I should be for a while now.

I haven't ruled out the possibility that I might actually have killed the yeast pretty effectively
with my iron-depletion dosings of IP6 and LactoFerrin and blood donating.
I took Nystatin at the same time, and my tongue did get dramatically clean and pink.

But on the other hand, at the same time I was experimenting with a new thyroid supplement regimen:
T3 only (vs the NDT I had been on).
If I had to bet, I would bet that switch was the main causative factor--
many other big and positive things started happening with that change.
But...I did the IP6/LactoFerrin/Nystatin at the same time, so...I can't be sure.

In any case, I've been having great improvements lately.
I hope here before long to post a review of my experiments and progress.
Wow, you sound a lot like me. I have genetically inherited high ferritin levels, & recently developed SIBO. Organic Sulfur has definitely helped the SIBO IMO. But from what I have researched so far, one could have high ferritin levels and LOW iron.Sounds like you. I don't know my iron levels, just the ferritin. I was also told to give blood as well. Going to do that soon.Trying to understand your history, aside from me giving blood, basically would you recommend eating beets....jucing, things like that? Wonder if I should do the IP6. Looking forward to an update from you if you so choose ;)
 

moringa

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Joined
Nov 27, 2016
Messages
155
I had been meaning to post this commentary about IP6
I came across in perusing the interwebs.
I copied it but didn't get the address--
I'll find that.
I don't know anything about the poster.
Just going on the content and manner of what he said.
But, I thought he/she had some interesting thoughts about IP6,
especially on:
-taking it on a very empty stomach
-dental sensitivities when taking too much
-(have to put this in the speculative category, but) iron in gut feeding cancer, bacteria, viruses and fungals
-taking IP6 with a good amount of non-mineralized water because the stomach acids and enzymes need to be
diluted so as not to compromise the IP6



"Sorry if I'm not addressing your question properly, but I've been taking IP6 for 6 months now to chelate excess iron and I have some input you may find interesting. I don't have a lot of knowledge regarding your specific query. Aside from the anti-cancer and immune supporting action of IP6 (boosting NK cells), IP6 is also effective at binding free iron (which feeds cancer, bacteria, viruses and fungals) when it is taken properly. Aside from these benefits, it also lowers inflammatory cytokines (TNF-a)! IP6 should always be taken on a very empty stomach (4 to 6 hours after meals and at least 30 minutes before eating) with a full glass of water to carry IP6 through your stomach and into your intestine swiftly for proper absorption. Any food at all present in your stomach will largely deactivate most of the benefit you might get from IP6. Similar problems will occur if you take it without adequate water to carry it swiftly through your stomach. Mucus, prostaglandins, acids and gastric secretions can damage IP6 if they are not diluted with water. When taken properly, you really only need one or possibly two 500mg doses of IP6 per day. I typically take it first thing in the morning or just before bed, and have noticed remarkable results at rather low doses. Regarding the dosage, I believe some are confusing IP6 with simple inositol as I have noticed some advising dosing IP6 at several grams a day, which is the standard dosage for simple inositol supplementation. Many cancer forums advise taking IP6 with additional inositol, and perhaps this is where the confusion occurs. If I take IP6 at levels higher than 500mg, twice per day (total 1000mg/day) I get dental sensitivities, which is the only side effect I've noticed from IP6. I have never taken more than this dosage and I believe it would be unwise to do so. Additional simple inositol may boost the effectiveness of IP6, but I have not yet tried this regime. I also take low dose magnesium (citrate 200mg) with lunch (at least 6 hours away from IP6), and low dose zinc (Tri-Zinc 50), also well away from when I take IP6 to reduce the possibility of a shortage of these vital minerals. Although studies have shown as long as IP6 is not taken with meals mineral depletion does not occur, it may be wise to "cycle off" of IP6 one week per month, or 3 days per week to allow your body to replenish trace minerals which could possibly become depleted with extended use of IP6. After 3 months continuous use of IP6, I am now cycling briefly off of it as I describe. There's a very good paper on IP6: "Effect of Inositol Hexaphosphate on Lipopolysaccharide-Stimulated Release of TNF-a from Human Mononuclear Cells" which contains a great deal of valuable information on IP6. I highly recommend giving it a look if you are interested in this remarkable supplement. There's an Abstract here: Effect of Inositol Hexaphosphate on Lipopolysaccharide-Stimulated Release of TNF-α from Human Mononuclear Cells"

im curious which brand of IP6 he took...
 
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paymanz

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Jan 6, 2015
Messages
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A person needs to go into the supermarket and just stand in the middle of it and feel what he needs. But who does that? NO ONE.
A lot of people do that!

I can say most of people don't care about nutrition, they eat whatever they want.

That's good guid but we are of in a good environment to do that, tasty foods may not be good.

Food choices in a supermarket may be tasty but not necessarily good for your health.
 

nikolabeacon

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Jun 18, 2015
Messages
326
I have no idea why this thread has turned personal. To me Peat talks about one body chemistry and he describes that body chemistry very well, and his recommendations for that body chemistry are really good. When I see this body chemistry on tests I always just say go on Ray Peats diet for me to save time and explanations. But this does not cover all cases not even close. This can be seen by the fact that big percentage of people are trying Peats ideas and failing and getting worse on this forum.

When I put people with a contradicting body chemistry on Ray Peats diet. It is quite obvious what happens.They fail.

Haidut even admits now that not high cortisol but also low cortisol could be a problem))) I personally had low PTH and low estrogen and low calcium in blood and low TSH and was almost dead.) It is all about balance. there are tons of different imbalances.

And I think threads and discussions actually help people to try different approaches.
Of course if moderators dont want it here, then I would not post here anymore.
But to me if someone creates a thread about iron, then we can discuss that issue from different angles.Also mentioning Peat in this discussion could be from favorable and negative sides. Why not? Arguing is the way to progress in my book. Forum was not created for praising Peat , was it? If yes, then I dont think I should post here.

Why cant it be a free discussion and free thoughts here especially amongst some people who were not helped by standard Peat recs?

Plus in no way , I am trying to be a guru or anything. I am for discussing things with interesting people , for trying things out and proving each other wrong, including Peat. Since no one knows the truth 100% , not even 50%

Also it is not about me misunderstanding Peat. It is about 80% people on this forum misunderstanding his ideas, because of the way he wrote them in his articles. If he wrote his ideas differently , actually how it was supposed to be, then he would not be any different than any biochemistry book. But he wrote those articles with bold statements of incorporating everyone into one body chemistry and then for some reason he says CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT. This looks like a marketing thing may be))) Shock everyone first and then slip into context scenario since obviously at least 50% of people wont have high PTH , nor high cortisol or high calcium in blood.

Anyway moderators, let me know if I can post here. I dont want to be a pain in the B , I have other things to do.
Bravo @gbolduev!!! Great LINES! I am sure you do not need cyprophetadine(wonderdrug). :)
 

moringa

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Messages
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If I give advice to someone in my spare time I have to know their system or at least know their reactions to certain things.
@gbolduev could you please give me some advice please? I sent you a PM. Or how would you prefer to be contacted? I need urgent help!
 

TreasureVibe

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Jul 3, 2016
Messages
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Retention of iron in the liver is due to low estrogen. Peat is super wrong on this. Women after menopause start retaining iron in their livers also, since their estrogen levels fall.

Basically if you are stressed you will use a lot of pregnenolone to make progesterone for cortisol and aldo pathway and will have very little DHEA. That will put your testosterone and estradiol into the lower part of the range. And you will start accumulating iron and copper in the liver. The mechanism how it works is this.

To release iron from the liver you need xanthine oxidase which runs on vitamin B2 and molybdenum, then you need ceruloplasmin to oxidize iron and put it on transferrin.

SO here we can possibly have 2 problems , lack of B2 or molybdenum , and lack of DHEA from stress so there is very little estrogen made.LOW estrogen equals low ceruloplasmin which equals no iron on transferrin and tons of it in ferritin.

Another problem is suppressing estrogen)))) like Peat advices, and then you run low on zinc no matter what you do and you wear glasses as thick as a windshield in your car)). Estrogen is needed to make zinc bioavailable since without bioavailable copper that estrogen provides your zinc levels will be suppressed. And when you run low on bioavailable zinc your protein synthesis goes down the drain and what suffers first. Yes you got it, the tiny muscles around your eyes. NOW we look at the thickness of PEATs glasses))) Cant see his eyes behind those. It is funny that I had exactly the same when I got sick before I got into all this medical crap. I remember I was driving a car and I could not see the signs on the road and my eyes constantly got tired .



SO the good idea would be to test your DHEA,Pregnenolone and also B2 and molybdenum status. IF you have low pregnenolone, that is most likely you have SIBO in the gut, since prenenolone is made from cholesterol and koenzym A which requires B5 in its active form --pantethine and acetic acid( vinegar).
B5 recycling depends on the gut.

That is why so many people are helped with simple vinegar plus brewest yeast.

Also iron chelation is good, but dont forget we have low iron in tissues but some free iron in the organs and also tons of iron in the liver. SO I think proper iron chelation would be by making iron bioavailable so it does not spill from the liver and making sure you have proper ceruloplasmin levels to make iron work.

I hope this makes sense


Serum estradiol associates with blood hemoglobin in elderly men: the MrOS Sweden study. - PubMed - NCBI

Estrogen regulates iron homeostasis through governing hepatic hepcidin expression via an estrogen response element. - PubMed - NCBI

I usually dont look at these, but the first study was Swedish , so may be not as bull**** as FDA controlled crap on pubmed)))
Is this true?
 

Blue Water

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Apr 26, 2020
Messages
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Regarding IP6, I have read it can "stabilize" retroviruses and viruses including Covid-19; so it actually helps viral replication. I have been wary of supplementing during these times but need to do something for iron overload that is not phlebotomy.
 

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