IdeaLabs In Yer Eye!

[cjm]

walmart's cheapest is also rated best by consumer reports, if you are in a place with Walmart.

Yes, there are about 16 Walmarts within a 30 minute drive of my location. Thanks for the suggestion, I think I'm overdue for some simple, concrete 'bio-data.'

 

[aarfai]

How are you doing with the T3 eye drops?

 

[LeeLemonoil]

@chrisjmay86
Thanks for starting the thread and sharing your experiences and rationale.

If you will, pls read this thread also where I compiled some info regarding what Peatish substances seem suitable for eyedrop-use and in which carriers:
Peatish Eyedrops

Note that said thread is with eye-health in mind, so not exactly what you had mind with using the eye as application-point for brain/neuronal health. I'm very interested in T3 for use in eyedrops, but shy away from applying either ethanol or dmso on the eye so I never really considered idealabs T3 for it. So thanks for your posts on DMSO and eyehealth!

But alos be mindful that the eye and the the lipid/mucin/watery-layer, its microbiome and the corneal cells are very delicate as your are certainly already aware. I thinks it is very risky to use the eye longterm as an application point. Have you thought about using the substances you want as nasal spray/for intranasal application? There are many studies and research going on about fat-soluble substances, also steoids like Progesterone and Progestine used intranasally to directly affcect brain- and neuronal conditions. The studies seem very proising that intranasaly applied stuff reaches the brain in efective quantities.

 

[Blossom]

Have you thought about using the substances you want as nasal spray/for intranasal

Great idea!

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Brain distribution and behavioral effects of progesterone and pregnenolone after intranasal or intravenous administration. - PubMed - NCBI Delivery of testosterone to the brain by intranasal administration: comparison to intravenous testosterone. - PubMed - NCBI Intranasal delivery of progesterone after transient ischemic stroke decreases mortality and provides neuroprotection. - PubMed - NCBI Brain distribution and behavioral effects of progesterone and pregnenolone after intranasal or intravenous administration Intranasal insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) as a plausible future treatment of depression. - PubMed - NCBI Delivery of insulin-like growth factor-I to the rat brain and spinal cord along olfactory and trigeminal pathways following intranasal administration. - PubMed - NCBI Delivery of interferon-beta to the monkey nervous system following intranasal administration. - PubMed - NCBI Strategies for intranasal delivery of therapeutics for the prevention and treatment of neuroAIDS. - PubMed - NCBI Intranasal delivery bypasses the blood-brain barrier to target therapeutic agents to the central nervous system and treat neurodegenerative disease. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Inhaled and intranasal corticosteroids - GOV.UK corrected_file.pmd - Talegaonkar, Intranasal delivery - An approach to bypass the blood brain barrier, I J Pharm 2004.pdf PLOS ONE: CSF and Blood Oxytocin Concentration Changes following Intranasal Delivery in Macaque Novel intranasal antidepressant shows results after 1 week | Clinical Psychiatry News Promnestic effects of intranasally applied pregnenolone in rats Translational Psychiatry - Low-dose oxytocin delivered intranasally with Breath Powered device affects social-cognitive behavior: a randomized four-way crossover trial with nasal cavity dimension assessment


Sorry for the polluted posts. Just copy and paste from bookmarks - stuff I compiled to indicate the vialblity of intranasal application for various substances

 

[cjm]

@LeeLemonoil
Thanks for pushing the topic along. I know I've seen your thread before, clearly hadn't read into it that far. The intranasal is a fascinating idea -- it seems a best route for me at this point, with concerns of odd side-effects from overdosing in the eye and truly getting substance to the brain. I'll read and provide comments, and perhaps augment the experiment. Have you gone down this road yourself with any particular substances / for any particular ailments? You discuss eye-drops for eye health in the other thread, but did the experiment expand at all?

I am not a scientist, I don't wear a name tag that says so and I sure as hell don't operate like one, as some may be able to tell. I wanted something that acted like a light switch, on/off, for contrast. I use 'contrast' as a concept to navigate my life-ship in general, not by choice necessarily, but because as a crude method of vision, it works and I can focus on other senses. I use sound a lot. There is a lot more contrast in audio than images for me. You might call this autism. Part of the reason for posting here was to articulate my echo-location in physical, tangible (visual) terms. My rationales have been long-winded to de-emphasize this method of wacky experimentation, which is dangerous for sure, but I assert that the sustained noise of my internal environment was more harmful to endure any longer. The noise level dropped precipitously, like nothing I've "dosed" before. Did it have to get this way? No. Is it this way? Yes. OK, I've tried everything, now what? That bears repeating: I wanted the noise level to drop and dropping dilute Vitamin K into my eye did the trick. I think Tyronene, Progestene, Metergoline, and Lisuride also did the trick. I think the ophthalmic delivery is another tool in the box in the grand scheme of things, but an extremely useful and effective one. The principle has been stated many times here and my our top Ray-ru: drugs are best used in the smallest effective dose for the shortest period of time. so @[URL='https://raypeatforum.com/community/members/aarfai.3167/']aarfai [/URL]I mentioned just previous to your post that I hadn't really made a point to experiment long-term with T3, but by this principle, it should factor in prominently in the future.

New data point for eye drops: Energin is interesting (10 drops into 720, ugh math for all those vitaminssss). Preface: To be specific and honest about one of my health aims, I am extremely sensitive (and addicted) to smoking and the hypoxic high and I was looking for any kind of antagonist, if such a thing could possibly exist. I'm coming to believe hypoxia is a process that needs to play out. I have had trouble not smoking (more of the green one, supposedly higher in "tar", but smoked tobacco out of an unfiltered pipe can be a hell of a stressor). Smoke will put me down for hours. I had to go to bed early last night because I recognized how much my heart was hurting. (Feeling pain more acutely is progress I can attribute to the lower mental noise level.) Energin didn't make the hypoxia pain go away, it made it more meaningful. Now I'm finally putting my wheels into an emotional cart path that doesn't steer into masochism, which is basically what is happening here: no pleasure felt and a deep imperative to accumulate sensation.

 

[managing]

Fascinating stuff about intranasal delivery. May I suggest that you start a thread on this? If you do, please come back here and link so those of us interested can follow.

I've often felt like some of the things I try to stimulate metabolism work for the body, but not equally for the brain. I realize some of this is just neurotransmitter based, but I sometimes "feel" (yes, totally subjective) like I am starving the brain. Thus I can feel really good and strong, yet irritable at the same time.

Potential topics would include what sorts of things can/should be delivered intranasally, what sorts of vessels are appropriate for doing so, and what kinds of solvents/adjutants are acceptable.

I've searched the forum and found nothing like it. There is a thread on intranasal insulin, but not on the broader matter of intranasal delivery.

 

[cjm]

Fascinating stuff about intranasal delivery. May I suggest that you start a thread on this?

"IdeaLabs in Yer Nose!" in the works.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I'm interested in what substances might maintain eye-health or correct eye-conditions.

I had a girlfriend that suffered from a corneal disease called keratoconus and co-suffered her journey from one quack to another. A so-called Uberspecialist on the condition absolutely messed up her eyes with a procedure that is so laughable in retrospect.

I then read up about teh condition and among many many pthetic and outwright wrong medical mainstream theories about the pathogenesis I singled ut that low thyroid function and very possibly a pathogenic/bacterial agle is involved. Eyehealth then became an interest to me in general, since it is so crucial to leading an active life. Forum-member Ella is an absolute beast in terms of eye-health knowledge.
There are substances now like lanosterol and cholesterol-oxides that can be deieverd via eyedrops and spares the people surgery in glaucoma, cataract and so forth. I wonder what else can be achived with topical agents for the eye, which seems a somewhat neglected area in pharmacological research. Possibyl as insinuated also the surgeons are interested to prevent easy solutions so that they can perform expensive surgery and laser-operations.


Intranasal delivery is just the same. Preliminary research shows that it could turn out to be a viable route of admnistration for avariety of drugs in many severe conditions like trauma, hemorhagging, stroke and so forth as well as many neurological and assertive diseases.
Intranasal Progesterone seems very promising for alleviating stroke acutely, but clinical trials were aborted or deemed unsuccesful in latter stages. Haidut I think made a post about the issues somewhere.

 

[cjm]

I'm interested in what substances might maintain eye-health or correct eye-conditions.

I had a girlfriend that suffered from a corneal disease called keratoconus and co-suffered her journey from one quack to another. A so-called Uberspecialist on the condition absolutely messed up her eyes with a procedure that is so laughable in retrospect.

I then read up about teh condition and among many many pthetic and outwright wrong medical mainstream theories about the pathogenesis I singled ut that low thyroid function and very possibly a pathogenic/bacterial agle is involved. Eyehealth then became an interest to me in general, since it is so crucial to leading an active life. Forum-member Ella is an absolute beast in terms of eye-health knowledge.
There are substances now like lanosterol and cholesterol-oxides that can be deieverd via eyedrops and spares the people surgery in glaucoma, cataract and so forth. I wonder what else can be achived with topical agents for the eye, which seems a somewhat neglected area in pharmacological research. Possibyl as insinuated also the surgeons are interested to prevent easy solutions so that they can perform expensive surgery and laser-operations.


Intranasal delivery is just the same. Preliminary research shows that it could turn out to be a viable route of admnistration for avariety of drugs in many severe conditions like trauma, hemorhagging, stroke and so forth as well as many neurological and assertive diseases.
Intranasal Progesterone seems very promising for alleviating stroke acutely, but clinical trials were aborted or deemed unsuccesful in latter stages. Haidut I think made a post about the issues somewhere.

Thanks, Lee.

For those watching, for better or worse: IdeaLabs In Yer Nose!

 

[Lurker]

In addition to the hangry state of hypoglycemia, I’ve seen anger associated with the liver. For me, activated charcoal works the best for keeping Hulk rage in check. But you also sound completely overwhelmed in general. If so you will need to downshift your life a bit. Unplug, pull back, and hibernate as best you can. Rest, recuperation, and reflection. A life shift is required. The best supplements in your wherever aren’t going to help if your still trying to plow on full speed ahead in this frenetic culture.

 

[cjm]

In addition to the hangry state of hypoglycemia, I’ve seen anger associated with the liver. For me, activated charcoal works the best for keeping Hulk rage in check. But you also sound completely overwhelmed in general. If so you will need to downshift your life a bit. Unplug, pull back, and hibernate as best you can. Rest, recuperation, and reflection. A life shift is required. The best supplements in your wherever aren’t going to help if your still trying to plow on full speed ahead in this frenetic culture.

I have tried to downshift, Lurker. I have unplugged and pulled back and hibernated, "within reason" as the phrase goes. But I admit to being unreasonable. Deep down I need to be around like-minded people and I have sought out stable groups of all shapes, sizes, persuasions, etc. I have not been satisfied with the results of this search but the search itself is likely misguided. It's difficult to talk openly about a holistic problem nowadays, especially in a culture (USA, Western) that deconstructs important issues (read: hard to talk about issues) to the point of meaninglessness. When my problems (perceived and/or actual) found me in my deepest, stablest hideaway, I knew I needed a new method to fight back. I agree even the best supplements aren't the primary tool and for the record, I am deeply ashamed of the place I have found myself where an eye drop or a nose spray is what beckons me away from the cliff of insanity.

 

[haidut]

I misspoke regarding DMSO in Idealabs supps. I didn't realize Metergoline, Lisuride, Androsterone, and a few others still had DMSO as a solvent. The three supps I just mentioned were shipped to me today and I plan to experiment with them post-haste.

A quick google search for "dmso ophthalmic" reveals an anti-fungal preparation for horses that uses DMSO. If it's good for a horse, it's good for a human, said no one:

"The ophthalmic preparation of itraconazole contains 1% itraconazole, 30% DMSO, and artificial tears. This formulation is necessary because itraconazole does not dissolve well in water but dissolves well in DMSO." [ITRACONAZOLE/DMSO OPHTHALMIC FOR HORSES]​

Here's an experimental study that looked at the Effects of dimethyl sulfoxide on ocular inflammation:

"ABSTRACT: The anti-inflammatory properties of topical ocular dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) were investigated using a standard experimental model of an acute inflammatory ocular inflammation. Ninety percent and 100% DMSO aggravated the inflammatory response, 50% to 70% DMSO had similar responses as the control eye; however, 30% DMSO had definite anti-inflammatory properties. Dexamethasone 0.1% was superior to 30% DMSO as an anti-inflammatory agent. From this study it is evident that high concentrations of DMSO are irritating to the inflammatory ocular model used while lower concentrations have anti-inflammatory properties. The two side effects of skin irritation at the site of application and breath odor may be the subjective influence that leads certain patients to report a beneficial effect of DMSO treatment in ocular inflammation."
​

@haidut, are you at liberty to share how much DMSO goes into Metergoline, Lisuride, and Androsterone?

We do not use DMSO any more for any product except MelaNon. Lisuride and metergoline both use the SFA esters + ethanol solvent now. We may bring the DMSO back as another solvent option to choose from if there is enough interest.

 

[Wagner83]

For those who will want to post here to say they want it back: Are You Interested In Having Dmso As A Third Solvent Option?

 

[cjm]

Since Yer Nose experiment is in full swing, I'm dialing back the ophthalmics, but I want to start taking them at strategic times, e.g., after waking, after meals, before bed.

This morning after waking, I took a drop of Energin (10 drops in 720 drops total volume, <1% ethanol, it's an absurdly small dose) and a drop of Kuinone (about 10 drops into 360) and had a more pleasant than normal morning commute.

 

[cjm]

Mark Sircus, champion of magnesium supplementation for health:

“Personally I have diluted [magnesium chloride] and put it in my eyes…”
Surviving Sepsis & Fungal Infections - Dr Sircus​

The In Yer Eye experiment continues with Magnoil! I swear to God, if there was a holy grail, magnesium would be it. Sometimes it seems like just about every other substance acts like a stimulant, not to mention other people and modern life. Magnesium is the true biological brake, imhfo. I’ll try to stop back here more often to actually communicate.

For the experiment, I’m starting with a bottle the size that Magnoil comes in and dropping a full dose (20 drops) into pure saline. My bottle is 4/5 full so the concentration is about 2%. Not sure the DMSO concentration. I did a quick literature search for DMSO safety a few weeks back and in one study horses were tolerating 30%. No alcohol to worry about, hooray!

After 4 drops in each eye, there is no irritation and a subtle lightening of mood. I am planning to take Magnoil before bed and for spot treatments the way it was intended, concurrently with this eye experiment.

 

[cjm]

Just doubled the concentration of the Magnoil solute portion by two, aka doubled it, and the sting is enough of a struggle to cope with to comment about. What's that, 3/4mg magnesium in each drop by my math (20 drops per dose*2 doses*333 mg Mg-complex per dose*.08 approx. available magnesium/720 drops in the bottle=.74mg Mg). Whatever the DMSO concentration still is, idk, but the sting is foreboding against higher concentrations. It dissipates shortly after usage but just a word of caution.

 

[cjm]

I found another interesting ophthalmic preparation that's used in surgeries for irrigating the ocular space (ocula?).

NAVSTEL

INGREDIENT, mg/ml, mg/drop
CALCIUM CHLORIDE, 0.154, 0.0077
DEXTROSE, 0.92, 0.046
MAGNESIUM CHLORIDE, 0.2, 0.01
OXIGLUTATIONE, 0.184, 0.0092
POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, 0.38, 0.019
SODIUM BICARBONATE, 2.1, 0.105
SODIUM CHLORIDE, 7.14, 0.357
SODIUM PHOSPHATE, 0.42, 0.021​

Just look at all them other minerals!

Since we're on the topic of magnesium and eyes, I thought you might be absolutely floored to find out that magnesium deficiency is implicated in glaucoma /sarcasm:

"In presence of magnesium deficiency, an imbalance between mediators of vasoconstriction and vasorelaxation may underlie the vasospasm, which is one of the pathogenic factors in primary open angle glaucoma."
Pathogenetic role of magnesium deficiency in ophthalmic diseases.​

"Mg has been shown to improve blood flow by modifying endothelial function via endothelin-1 (ET-1) and endothelial nitric oxide (NO) pathways. Mg also exhibits neuroprotective role by blocking N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor-related calcium influx and by inhibiting the release of glutamate, and hence protects the cell against oxidative stress and apoptosis."
The Role of Magnesium in the Pathogenesis and Treatment of Glaucoma
​

Aight, later y'all.

 

[cjm]

Wanted to give a brief update on this thread...

I have toyed with the ocular route of administration on and off for about 2 years now. Here are some observations:

• Virtually any amount of alcohol in the eye is unpleasant. The only reason I imagine I was able to tolerate it was a moderate to severe "ocular block" -- which was one of the reasons I was using ophthalmics in the first place. I think I would have been able to use vitamin K indefinitely if it weren't for the alcohol in the IdeaLabs formula.
• Zaditor (ketotifen) is subtle but works. The effects plateau early on, after about 10 drops per eye, but the psychological relief it provides is real.
• Bromantane, which I've been using orally in high doses,~500 mg/day, to some effect, not only doesn't hurt in the eye, it works and continues to work after repeated administration. I'm using a 3% solution in saline, which is 100 times more concentrated than Zaditor (.035%).

Updates to follow.