Side Effects Of Too Much Serotonin

TeslaFan

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Gelatin helped me as well.

For a long time I thought being high serotonin was good because I was walking around in an agitated highly confrotational state.

I thought I was being alpha. :facepalm:

Nice!

It's funny how serotonin does that. Perfect insanity. Everyone else sees that something's wrong with the person, but the person remains confident in its sad, delusional state.
 
M

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If my short-lived experience taking an SSRI is anything to go by, drastically elevated serotonin results primarily in diarrhoea or very loose stools.
 
D

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Gelatin helped me as well.

For a long time I thought being high serotonin was good because I was walking around in an agitated highly confrotational state.

I thought I was being alpha. :facepalm:

Agitation and Confrontational states can stim from sertonin or High Dht.
If your gonna gauge a male purely on a biological level (hormones) to see if there "Alpha", which is one of the main measuring factors since hormones effect neurotransmitters that dictate your conscious experience.

Sertonin agitation aggression, comes from a state of fear, anxiety, and stress hormones. Angry, frustrated beta.

Potential for outwards aggression is an indicator of high DHT.
DHT hits the dopamine and adrenaline receptors, also the Gaba. Which creates the focused, driven, sharp, and confident Alpha Male. Combined with Low estrogen, the organism can become quite aggressive, due to much adrenaline/dopamine/gaba and not enough serotonin to inhibit him in some way, make him fear death, and question his actions.

This is what creates the super male dominance males found in Prisions and Gangster movies. Sociopaths essentially, The embodiment of manliness viewed from natures point of view. Fearless, Driven, Masculine.
 
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Agitation and Confrontational states can stim from sertonin or High Dht.
If your gonna gauge a male purely on a biological level (hormones) to see if there "Alpha", which is one of the main measuring factors since hormones effect neurotransmitters that dictate your conscious experience.

Sertonin agitation aggression, comes from a state of fear, anxiety, and stress hormones. Angry, frustrated beta.

Potential for outwards aggression is an indicator of high DHT.
DHT hits the dopamine and adrenaline receptors, also the Gaba. Which creates the focused, driven, sharp, and confident Alpha Male. Combined with Low estrogen, the organism can become quite aggressive, due to much adrenaline/dopamine/gaba and not enough serotonin to inhibit him in some way, make him fear death, and question his actions.

This is what creates the super male dominance males found in Prisions and Gangster movies. Sociopaths essentially, The embodiment of manliness viewed from natures point of view. Fearless, Driven, Masculine.

were you jacking off when you wrote that.
 

Frankdee20

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When you say that these symptoms are caused by high serotonin, are you referring to CNS serotonin or peripheral serotonin? As far as I know, there is no way to accurately measure CNS serotonin, except for extremely invasive tests.

For those of you who claim to have high serotonin, how are you determining this? Through blood tests? I'm just curious because it seems a bit presumptuous to blaim so much on a single neurotransmitter.

Yeah that's extremely rampant on this forum, I'm not saying it's BS, but how can mostly subjective observations be so definitive as to exist without empirical validation?
 

Regina

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Migraines!
Sensitivity to light
Lack of situational awareness
Cold methodical thinking and lack of spirituality.
Feeling stuck in one's own head.
The sun was out in Chicago today and I noted I could stare at it comfortably. Afterwards I went into a walgreens to buy little lithium batteries; I noted I could read the tiny letters/numbers on all the products and ingredient lists on candy bars without my 1.25 reading glasses. Neat!
 
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I don't even come to grasp how someone would take something to increase their 5ht2a,5ht2c serotonin subtypes through ssri's.

******* serotonin is damn ***t, it tells you that you're un-important, and it messes with your mindset so you become extremely beta guy with no drive or libido therefore no goals or ambition in life.

Higher dopamine to serotonin is the magic bullet, however excessive D2 activation causes schizophrenia and delusions thinking that someone can read your thoughts, anyways it's far better than serotonin
 

Arnold Grape

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As a counterpoint to much of that, I took the herb St. John's Wort, which works virtually like an SSRI, for more than ten years (through my twenties and into my thirties), with little trace of any of the ailments that are commonly mentioned around here in reference to serotonin. In fact, I was markedly healthy through this period and well into my mid-thirties, with little trace of the things you are talking about. What I will own up to is a sense of indifference that can accompany its pervasive use. Additionally, I can recount a few occasions where my emotions were difficult to reign in, although to be fair, I can reference these things while taking too high a dose of Pregnenolone, as well.
 

ratstrain

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St. John's wort doesn't work virtually like an SSRI...

A marker that illustrates that is prolactin. SSRIs raise it, St. John's wort lowers it.
 

Arnold Grape

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Generally, it acts on the neurotransmitters in a way that is like an SSRI, and we are talking about serotonin in this thread. I can empirically say what that feels like in the brain, where I think a lot of people here are fairly dogmatic about what serotonin is and the possible implications of it. Some of those things I agree with.
 

Jerimy Brown

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It's the total opposite

High creativity and artistic ability = high dopamine. Dopamine makes you emotionally intense and volatile whereas serotonin numbs you

I think I can attest to this... I am a career designer and artist, and I recently gave myself serotonin syndrome by accidentally mixing two over-the-counter serotonin boosters, thanks to my own stupidity around paying attention, or not, to labels. I have found that while I have been dealing with this, and trying to normalize my body again, I have been really struggling to get my work done. I feel an overall lack of drive/desire to even work on things, struggle with concentration, and just never happy with anything. I basically have to will myself through work right now, it's exhausting and I just can't wait to be back to normal (whatever that mean LOL) <--- but my sense of humor is trying to come back finally, so I guess that was a positive thing ;). Actually looking forward to my doctors appointment tomorrow to see how things are coming along, but I am finally feeling better, and so thankful to this community that has helped me learn about and manage this... Thanks everyone and hang in there.
 

Arnold Grape

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I think I can attest to this... I am a career designer and artist, and I recently gave myself serotonin syndrome by accidentally mixing two over-the-counter serotonin boosters, thanks to my own stupidity around paying attention, or not, to labels. I have found that while I have been dealing with this, and trying to normalize my body again, I have been really struggling to get my work done. I feel an overall lack of drive/desire to even work on things, struggle with concentration, and just never happy with anything. I basically have to will myself through work right now, it's exhausting and I just can't wait to be back to normal (whatever that mean LOL) <--- but my sense of humor is trying to come back finally, so I guess that was a positive thing ;). Actually looking forward to my doctors appointment tomorrow to see how things are coming along, but I am finally feeling better, and so thankful to this community that has helped me learn about and manage this... Thanks everyone and hang in there.
Would you be able to disclose exactly what you were taking and what serotonin syndrome feels like, for the benifit of others? Additionally: would you be able to say what your routine might currently involve to counteract what went on with you? I think information like that would be helpful.
 

Jerimy Brown

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Would you be able to disclose exactly what you were taking and what serotonin syndrome feels like, for the benifit of others? Additionally: would you be able to say what your routine might currently involve to counteract what went on with you? I think information like that would be helpful.

I am actually in the process of writing up the entire experience to share with this community that has been so wonderful and informative, but let me see if I can give you the short version here first ;)... I will start with how we believe I got it, and I will do a separate post, when I have a little more time to share some dietary discoveries.

First off, I had been on an intermittent day fasting diet for about 3 months, working very hard in the gym, dropped about 40 pounds, and felt incredible (I have sense learned, this might have increased serotonin levels in me). I have read long term starvation can increase it, and my body might have felt it was starving given the extreme nature of my routine/diet.

I hurt my back in the gym one night and visited the doctor for it, but I am not a fan of taking pharmaceuticals, so a friend suggested I try CBD oil for inflammation, which seemed like a nice natural solution to me, but, unwisely, I started taking it without proper research or understanding (turns out CBD can boost serotonin levels). Well during this time, I was also having a bit of trouble sleeping because of the discomfort of the back injury, so I thought I would just grab some melatonin at my local health food store, and was using that for sleep. Turns out the melatonin I grabbed had 5-htp in it, another serotonin booster. Anyone of these things on their own probably wouldn't have been a problem, but the 3 together created a perfect storm for me, and after about a week of both of those together, I woke up one night, in a full on panic...

I had a panic attack once before, in my life, and this felt exactly like that. I was convinced that's all it was, and talked myself out of going to the emergency room, which in hind sight, was another poor decision on my part. I was having hot and cold spells, that again felt ver similar to a panic attack, lightheadedness, and confusion looking back, but the confusion wasn't so obvious until reflecting on it... I woke my wife and she thought maybe it was just a panic attack too

I am a pretty over analytical person by nature, so I immediately started evaluating what had changed in my routine recently, and I quickly realized it had to be the CBD or what I thought at the time was just melatonin. After bringing the bottles of both items into my office and sitting in front of the computer for probably close to a 24hour period(since I couldn't sleep and felt anxious) I had done enough label reading and research to have figured out the melatonin had something called 5-htp in it, and that both items(CBD and 5-HTP) had potential serotonin boosting properties. This lead me down a path of discovery about Serotonin Syndrome(which I had never even heard of before). All I knew for sure, the more I learned, was that the symptoms of Serotonin Syndrome were too familiar for it not to be the answer. The anxiety, the inability to sleep, the confusion, etc. I, and again, cannot express what a poor decision this was either, self diagnosed and read all I could about how to treat it, manage it etc... It wasn't until a day or two later, when I started having difficulty typing because of twitching in a couple of my fingers, that I got freaked out and called my doctor.

So in closing, if you like me, run across this post in a search for why your panic attach isn't ending, get yourself to an emergency room... A panic attack should end relatively quickly, it shouldn't last 24 hours. My self diagnosis and treatment, was foolish and dangerous too, which is a bit easier to see when you aren't in a full flight or fight response and experiencing confusion from some imbalance in your system.

Hopefully this helps someone, and I will be sharing a lot more soon, including simple dietary choices and supplements that help. As I get more clearheaded, I also seem to notice that there is an important role in balancing protein and carbohydrates during recovery... I seem to be very sensitive to too much of one or the other.

I have another doctors appointment tomorrow, so hopefully I will know more about my own situation soon.
 
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Mauritio

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As a counterpoint to much of that, I took the herb St. John's Wort, which works virtually like an SSRI, for more than ten years (through my twenties and into my thirties), with little trace of any of the ailments that are commonly mentioned around here in reference to serotonin. In fact, I was markedly healthy through this period and well into my mid-thirties, with little trace of the things you are talking about. What I will own up to is a sense of indifference that can accompany its pervasive use. Additionally, I can recount a few occasions where my emotions were difficult to reign in, although to be fair, I can reference these things while taking too high a dose of Pregnenolone, as well.

its rarely known somehow that st. johns wort also acts on other neurotransmitters . for example : dopamin and gaba .....
 

Arnold Grape

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its rarely known somehow that st. johns wort also acts on other neurotransmitters . for example : dopamin and gaba .....
It must work on various transmitters -- Whatever its particular action, it made me feel pretty great. (Again, as I mentioned in the aforementioned blurb, there were occasions where high serotonin may contribute to feelings of aggression.) In retrospect, I think that taking 325-550 mgs of aspirin in conjunction with SJW could have made me feel as good mentally as I have at any time, with the possible exception of when I took Progesterone for a short period of time. Now if only I could find a way to easily crush estrogen; raise androgens and lower serotonin while raising dopamine, I will be good to go. :rolleyes:
 

ginny-red

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I'd like to also share my story of side effects of too much serotonin.

I'm 23 years old female, always very slim and with problems with appetite. Never had any mental illnesses, I was a very happy person with normal life, never felt something like anxiety or anything like that, only wanted to gain weight. The whole life I had a constipation and probably IBS.
At the end of February 2018 (22nd exactly) I bought a nutrient for mass making with a lot of amino acids in it (tryptophan, tyrosine, a little of BCAA, EAA, etc.). When I first took it (as a drink, a high amount, about 800 kcal - it was also 22nd of February), I had a headache almost immediately, but I thought that my organism needs to get used to that, so next day I also drank this and also in next days. During this period, I had a lot of stress (connected with private relationship), but I was always doing well with stress. This time was different. After 4-5 days of stress + a lot of protein nutrient (daily about 800-1000 kcal), I loss my appetite, I was feeling really bad - my muscles were shaking very hard, I was filling really cold, I was blaming myself about everything (connected with relationship) so it was huge feeling of guilt, also I was in really bad mental condition - not crying, but had a HUGE ANXIETY day by day. I thought it's maybe connected with all stress situations (I changed my job, have problems in relationship) so I bought Rhodiola and some calming medications, but it still didn't help (I was also drinking this protein drink every day...). It only got worse. After that I decided to go to psychiatrist first time in my life (8th of March). She didn't know that I'm drinking any protein drinks or taking Rhodiola, so she prescribed me SSRI (Sertraline). She said that I have to take 25mg in first few days, then 50mg. First day of Sertraline was awful, I had goose bumps, huge anxiety, intrusive thoughts, I was afraid of everything, had nightmares, but my doctor said it's normal in first days. Next 3 days were the same, even worse - dry mouth, no appetite, intrusive thoughts, huge feel of guilt, huge anxiety, trouble sleeping, chills, feeling really cold. I had one day of break, I drank protein drink before sleeping, then in the morning I took 50mg of SSRI. This day was a nightmare - 30 minutes after taking SSRI I almost lost my consciousness - largest anxiety I've ever had in my life, suicidal thoughts, huge feel of guilt, headache, pulse 120, tremors, chills, billion thoughts per second. It lasted about 3 hours, I was looking for something connected with serotonin and found that something like serotonin syndrome does exist. After that I realized that I have to go to the doctor. She said it could be serotonin toxicity and gave me propranolol and told me to not take anything connected with serotonin. So I put all medications/protein drinks away. First week was terrible. Huge anxiety, diarrhea, headache, tremors, nightmares, trouble sleeping. I went to the neurologist and he prescribed me Propranolol, which did not help. After that I went to other doc and he prescribed me Cyproheptadine. I was taking this for about one week, it helped a little, but still had headaches, tremors, goosebumps and anxiety. I was looking for medications and solutions so I tried Magnesium + B6, vitamin D, B1, C, Omega 3, phosphatidylserin and Ashwagandha. After almost one month past SS (so after Cypro, vit B6 + Mg, Omega 3 treatment), I did a lot of labor tests.
My results (some of them) in serum from 05.04.2018:
TSH - 3,39 uIU/ml (norm: 0,27 - 4,20)
Cortisol - 28,47 ug/dl (norm: 5,27-22,45 at 7-9:30 AM and it was took about 9AM) - above norm
Prolactin - 12,9 ng/ml (norm: 2,8-29,3)
Serotonin - 98,7 ug/l (norm: 117,5-193,3) - below the norm (!)
Ca - 9,99 mg/dl (norm: 8,1-10,4)

Tryptophan - 13 mg/l (norm: <10) - above norm (!)
Tyrosine - 8 mg/l (norm: <17) - maybe to low?
GABA - <1 mg/l (norm: <5) - maybe to low?
Cystine - 5 mg/l (norm: <34)
Isoleucine - 5 mg/l (norm: <20)
Valin - 23 mg/l
Leucine - 16 mg/l (norm: <25)
If you need more results from amino acids test, I can give them.

Now I'm taking all of the vitamins (B1, D, C, Omega 3, B6, Mg) + BCAA (for last 4 days). I tried also phenylalnin and l-tyrosine, but it made me worse (more chills, anxiety, goosebumps). I decided to take only BCAA.
Today I took BCAA before breakfast but still have everyday symptoms: diarrhea every morning, strong headache, feel of guilt (I must to admit to my all lies from my whole life, I wasn't like that before!), anxiety, small appetite, tremors, chills - I still feel cold, goosebumps, a lot of thoughts, hard to focus, somnolence. The good thing is that I sleep very well without breaks, but I wake up anxious and stressed - I think those two symptoms are much stronger in the morning. I'm not sad, I don't cry, sometimes I laugh and I don't have problems with humor, I'm just anxious and it's hard for me to focus and motivate, I still feel stressed.
I try to eat regularly, I drink coffee (1-2), work every day, but it's really hard.

Could you please somehow help me and advice what to do? Doctors in my country do not know how to treat this, even they told me that they didn't know if serotonin or amino acids can be tested.
I'm just thinking if it's some type of chronic serotonin toxicity or maybe it is caused by to low serotonin (looking at the test)? Also I'm thinking about my diarrhea and IBS, if my whole life I had a constipations, could it be somehow connected with serotonin metabolism in my whole life? And what about dopamine?
It's weird that I have excess tryptophan and to low serotonin... Please advise!
 

Luann

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This is by no means a cure for some of the serious cases that were just posted, but for people who are in a hopeless or anxious rut, a food cure that has helped me a LOT lately is grabbing my orange juice concentrate out of the fridge and eating with a spoon. Again this is not meant for people who have been taking serotonin in supplement form or anything. But I saw some people up top posting their stories of not feeling well or being dysphoric and I wanted to suggest the orange juice concentrate. Like I said it helps me at least.
 
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I'd like to also share my story of side effects of too much serotonin.

I'm 23 years old female, always very slim and with problems with appetite. Never had any mental illnesses, I was a very happy person with normal life, never felt something like anxiety or anything like that, only wanted to gain weight. The whole life I had a constipation and probably IBS.
At the end of February 2018 (22nd exactly) I bought a nutrient for mass making with a lot of amino acids in it (tryptophan, tyrosine, a little of BCAA, EAA, etc.). When I first took it (as a drink, a high amount, about 800 kcal - it was also 22nd of February), I had a headache almost immediately, but I thought that my organism needs to get used to that, so next day I also drank this and also in next days. During this period, I had a lot of stress (connected with private relationship), but I was always doing well with stress. This time was different. After 4-5 days of stress + a lot of protein nutrient (daily about 800-1000 kcal), I loss my appetite, I was feeling really bad - my muscles were shaking very hard, I was filling really cold, I was blaming myself about everything (connected with relationship) so it was huge feeling of guilt, also I was in really bad mental condition - not crying, but had a HUGE ANXIETY day by day. I thought it's maybe connected with all stress situations (I changed my job, have problems in relationship) so I bought Rhodiola and some calming medications, but it still didn't help (I was also drinking this protein drink every day...). It only got worse. After that I decided to go to psychiatrist first time in my life (8th of March). She didn't know that I'm drinking any protein drinks or taking Rhodiola, so she prescribed me SSRI (Sertraline). She said that I have to take 25mg in first few days, then 50mg. First day of Sertraline was awful, I had goose bumps, huge anxiety, intrusive thoughts, I was afraid of everything, had nightmares, but my doctor said it's normal in first days. Next 3 days were the same, even worse - dry mouth, no appetite, intrusive thoughts, huge feel of guilt, huge anxiety, trouble sleeping, chills, feeling really cold. I had one day of break, I drank protein drink before sleeping, then in the morning I took 50mg of SSRI. This day was a nightmare - 30 minutes after taking SSRI I almost lost my consciousness - largest anxiety I've ever had in my life, suicidal thoughts, huge feel of guilt, headache, pulse 120, tremors, chills, billion thoughts per second. It lasted about 3 hours, I was looking for something connected with serotonin and found that something like serotonin syndrome does exist. After that I realized that I have to go to the doctor. She said it could be serotonin toxicity and gave me propranolol and told me to not take anything connected with serotonin. So I put all medications/protein drinks away. First week was terrible. Huge anxiety, diarrhea, headache, tremors, nightmares, trouble sleeping. I went to the neurologist and he prescribed me Propranolol, which did not help. After that I went to other doc and he prescribed me Cyproheptadine. I was taking this for about one week, it helped a little, but still had headaches, tremors, goosebumps and anxiety. I was looking for medications and solutions so I tried Magnesium + B6, vitamin D, B1, C, Omega 3, phosphatidylserin and Ashwagandha. After almost one month past SS (so after Cypro, vit B6 + Mg, Omega 3 treatment), I did a lot of labor tests.
My results (some of them) in serum from 05.04.2018:
TSH - 3,39 uIU/ml (norm: 0,27 - 4,20)
Cortisol - 28,47 ug/dl (norm: 5,27-22,45 at 7-9:30 AM and it was took about 9AM) - above norm
Prolactin - 12,9 ng/ml (norm: 2,8-29,3)
Serotonin - 98,7 ug/l (norm: 117,5-193,3) - below the norm (!)
Ca - 9,99 mg/dl (norm: 8,1-10,4)

Tryptophan - 13 mg/l (norm: <10) - above norm (!)
Tyrosine - 8 mg/l (norm: <17) - maybe to low?
GABA - <1 mg/l (norm: <5) - maybe to low?
Cystine - 5 mg/l (norm: <34)
Isoleucine - 5 mg/l (norm: <20)
Valin - 23 mg/l
Leucine - 16 mg/l (norm: <25)
If you need more results from amino acids test, I can give them.

Now I'm taking all of the vitamins (B1, D, C, Omega 3, B6, Mg) + BCAA (for last 4 days). I tried also phenylalnin and l-tyrosine, but it made me worse (more chills, anxiety, goosebumps). I decided to take only BCAA.
Today I took BCAA before breakfast but still have everyday symptoms: diarrhea every morning, strong headache, feel of guilt (I must to admit to my all lies from my whole life, I wasn't like that before!), anxiety, small appetite, tremors, chills - I still feel cold, goosebumps, a lot of thoughts, hard to focus, somnolence. The good thing is that I sleep very well without breaks, but I wake up anxious and stressed - I think those two symptoms are much stronger in the morning. I'm not sad, I don't cry, sometimes I laugh and I don't have problems with humor, I'm just anxious and it's hard for me to focus and motivate, I still feel stressed.
I try to eat regularly, I drink coffee (1-2), work every day, but it's really hard.

Could you please somehow help me and advice what to do? Doctors in my country do not know how to treat this, even they told me that they didn't know if serotonin or amino acids can be tested.
I'm just thinking if it's some type of chronic serotonin toxicity or maybe it is caused by to low serotonin (looking at the test)? Also I'm thinking about my diarrhea and IBS, if my whole life I had a constipations, could it be somehow connected with serotonin metabolism in my whole life? And what about dopamine?
It's weird that I have excess tryptophan and to low serotonin... Please advise!

No ashwagandha, that is serotonergic and try no chronic caffeine for at least 2 weeks, lowers anxiety and re-balances neurotransmitters. Reduce caffeine intake slowly via chocolate milk.
Take Gotu Kola /centella asiatica, that will relax you, it works on GABA. And also valerian, for sleep. Or see an Ayurvedic.
Do not trust your vitamins, just drink fruit juice and milk.
Only take omega 3 if you experience brain zaps, symptom after to much serotonin, then also take Albion TRAACS magnesium regularly.
Clean your gut and excess estrogen by a daily raw carrot salad meal.
Take probiotics to fix your gutbacteria. And take low dosage of Castor oil, to improve enzymic activity to make vital transition metals. Antibiotics can kill your bacteria and ability to make certain transition metals your body needs to repair itself. High dose is a laxative.
and of course eat like Peat.

edit: Don't eat wheat, if you eat wheat, take it with glucosamine to protect gut. Wheat damage gut 3x as much as other grains. No whole grains. Try white rice, and masa harina that is corn nixtamilized.
 
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