The Consequences Of Cheese As A Main Source Of Protein

[Amazoniac]

does it make a difference if it's coming from diet (and consumed along with the methionine meal) or if it's being drawn from the reserves (and later replenished)?

Vitamin B12 and protein metabolism

 

[Amazoniac]

Now since this thread is about minimizing the potential problems with cheese, if you find a fresh one that is good but too salty, you can just soak it in lime water for some time and it works like a charm. Some string cheeses for example can be salted in excess, and if you consume a lot, the salt can add up.

I forgot to add that there are two problems in leaving it immersed in citrus juice: deterioration of nutrients and toughening of the protein.

By the way, I suspect that people who prepare their own cheese using vinegar or citrus juice must be doing it wrong if it's curdling too fast. It should be a slow process to use the minimum necessary for the effect, otherwise the excess will only serve to harden the protein and make it more indigestible.

Effect of rennet coagulation time on composition, yield, and quality of reduced-fat cheddar cheese. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Amazoniac]

Herb Doctors: The Ten Most Toxic Things In Our Foodnew

ANDREW MURRAY: let's move on to the next ingredient, the GMO microbial enzymes and the vegetarian rennets. These are kind of cheese replacements. Will you talk a little bit about rennet and why natural rennet from the cows' or young calf's stomach is not being used now, but it's being genetically modified on yeasts and other microorganisms and how this has contributed to allergies in people, in people that say they can’t cheese, et cetera?

RAY PEAT: I think it's the trace allergens, parts of the fungus or the bacteria. Aspergillosis is a very serious disease and people who work in some of these enzyme factories are exposed to dust from the microorganisms and develop allergies of various sorts. But the regulators assume that the people who eat the stuff aren’t going to have the same sort of reaction.

ANDREW MURRAY: Aspergillosis, that's Farmer's Lung, isn't it? They get it from moldy straw and it's another respiratory preoccupational disease for farmers.

RAY PEAT: Yeah. And all of the organisms used in manufacturing amino acids, or proteins or enzymes, all of them, have the risk of the impurities being left in the product. And the food producers are being pressured in various ways to give up the natural material and buy their stuff in a can and do it in a – like, they're in a chemical lab rather a kitchen. Many kinds of pressure are affecting the food supply, so that people are coming to believe that the industrial way is necessary. You can see government and commercial websites that say these things are necessary for high-quality food. If you're going to keep the food on the shelf for a month or two, maybe it's necessary. But, for example, Nancy's yogurt used to be – or Nancy's cottage cheese used to be natural cottage cheese. And the way cottage cheese was always made was to drain the curd and soldered. And draining it left the curd free of lactic acid. But couple of years ago, someone convinced the Nancy's yogurt people to start using what they called a dressing, consisting of lactic acid and something else to…

SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Dry milk powder.

RAY PEAT: Oh yeah. To give the cottage cheese a very long shelf life. Lactic acid suppresses the growth of organisms, but it's just as toxic to the people who eat it as it is to the organisms that are being suppressed by it. It very quickly can simulate the whole inflammatory chain reaction, the same as the polyunsaturated fat. And if that inflammation is continued chronically, then it increases fibrosis. And the same as radiation. Any of these chronic inflammations eventually increase the risk of cancer.

 

[Amazoniac]

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/the-problem-with-protein/

"PROTEIN AND VITAMIN A

We need look no further than Chris Masterjohn’s article, “Vitamin A, The Forgotten Bodybuilding Nutrient” (Wise Traditions, Fall 2004). As Masterjohn explains, “The utilization of protein requires vitamin A. Several animal studies have shown that liver reserves of vitamin A are depleted by a high dietary intake of protein, while vitamin A increases in non-liver tissues. One explanation for this is that adequate protein is necessary for vitamin A transport. In one study, researchers fed radioactively-labeled vitamin A to rats on low-protein and high-protein diets, using the amount of radioactivity present in exhaled gases, urine and feces as a measure of the metabolism of vitamin A, and found that vitamin A is indeed used at a higher rate on a high-protein diet.”

Masterjohn continues, “Vitamin A is not only depleted by a high intake of protein, but it is also necessary for the synthesis of new protein, which is the goal of the bodybuilder. Rats fed diets deficient in vitamin A synthesize protein at a lower rate than rats fed adequate vitamin A. Cultured skeletal muscle cells increase the amount of protein per cell when exposed to vitamin A and D, but not when exposed to vitamin D alone.”

In other words, eating lean meat or taking a protein powder sends a signal to the liver: “Send me vitamin A!” Protein consumed in the absence of fat, with its precious cargo of fat-soluble vitamins, including vitamin A, is an effective way of rapidly depleting your liver of vitamin A stores.

What happens when the liver becomes depleted of vitamin A, so that none can be made available to the body when needed?

Vitamin A is key to almost every process in the body—the concert master, so to speak—not only for protein synthesis, but also for hormone production (including sex hormones like testosterone, and thyroid hormone); vitamin A is also key to immune system function, critical for healthy vision and hearing, plays a role in bone health, and works in tandem with vitamins D and K2 for everything from the prevention of heart disease to the production of feel-good chemicals. A diet of lean meat, or one that incorporates protein powders, is a recipe for hormone disruption, fatigue, depression, bone problems, auto-immune disease, vision and hearing problems, heart disease and even cancer."​

I'm sure the same can occur with cheese if the person isn't getting enough vitamin A elsewhere.

 

[Wagner83]

That's pretty important, so I guess people who do a lowish fat diet with a decent amount of proteins should supplement fat solubles, besides liver I don't know what he considers as rich sources of retinol from proteiny foods, yolks maybe.

 

[Amazoniac]

That's pretty important, so I guess people who do a lowish fat diet with a decent amount of proteins should supplement fat solubles, besides liver I don't know what he considers as rich sources of retinol from proteiny foods, yolks maybe.

Consuming some carotene-rich fruits (papaya, mango, etc) along with low-fat cheese might not be a bad idea.
Travisord used to consume cheese with leafy greens, taking care of vitamins A and K. The same applies to meals with meat where greens can be flavored with butter: beet greens, spinach, etc. For carotene, some cooked carrots, sweet potato, pell bepper, pumpkin, etc.
If supplementation is needed, I doubt a lot is required. Taurine can be used to stimulate bile release in the ad sense of enough fat.

 

[Travis]

Consuming some carotene-rich fruits (papaya, mango, etc) along with low-fat cheese might not be a bad idea.
Travisord used to consume cheese with leafy greens, taking care of vitamins A and K. The same applies to meals with meat where greens can be flavored with butter: beet greens, spinach, etc. For carotene, some cooked carrots, sweet potato, pell bepper, pumpkin, etc.
If supplementation is needed, I doubt a lot is required. Taurine can be used to stimulate bile release in the ad sense of enough fat.

Most certainly. I think cheese is best consumed grated over finely-cut kale and eaten with chopstix. I feel this tends to equalize both the Ca²⁺∶Mg²⁺ ratio and the Na⁺∶K⁺ ratio.

 

[G Forrest]

Cheese as the main source of protein was too much fat for me as a total % of calories. I could incorporate lowfat cottage cheese, but I got a little tired of it eating it regularly. I think eggs/oj/coffee for breakfast, milk and fruits throughout the day, with a meat or broth with veggies meal for dinner works well, with a few small slices of cheese throughout the day. I know Peat has also mentioned eating hard cheese is like eating a stick of butter because of the fat content.

 

[Amazoniac]

Vitamin A must also be required to put order in the growth stimulated by proteid. Many bodybuilders consume an excess of those powders and it's not uncommon for them to have some skin manifestations of disorder, such as roughness.

I was commenting with Wagner that "There is a type of processing that is gentle and preserves nutrients; and others that are harsh and discarts nutrients. This is a distinction that isn't made often." Cheese tends to the second case, causing imbalances if eaten too much. The ones that can pull it off are exceptions.

 

[Vinero]

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/the-problem-with-protein/

"PROTEIN AND VITAMIN A

We need look no further than Chris Masterjohn’s article, “Vitamin A, The Forgotten Bodybuilding Nutrient” (Wise Traditions, Fall 2004). As Masterjohn explains, “The utilization of protein requires vitamin A. Several animal studies have shown that liver reserves of vitamin A are depleted by a high dietary intake of protein, while vitamin A increases in non-liver tissues. One explanation for this is that adequate protein is necessary for vitamin A transport. In one study, researchers fed radioactively-labeled vitamin A to rats on low-protein and high-protein diets, using the amount of radioactivity present in exhaled gases, urine and feces as a measure of the metabolism of vitamin A, and found that vitamin A is indeed used at a higher rate on a high-protein diet.”

Masterjohn continues, “Vitamin A is not only depleted by a high intake of protein, but it is also necessary for the synthesis of new protein, which is the goal of the bodybuilder. Rats fed diets deficient in vitamin A synthesize protein at a lower rate than rats fed adequate vitamin A. Cultured skeletal muscle cells increase the amount of protein per cell when exposed to vitamin A and D, but not when exposed to vitamin D alone.”

In other words, eating lean meat or taking a protein powder sends a signal to the liver: “Send me vitamin A!” Protein consumed in the absence of fat, with its precious cargo of fat-soluble vitamins, including vitamin A, is an effective way of rapidly depleting your liver of vitamin A stores.

What happens when the liver becomes depleted of vitamin A, so that none can be made available to the body when needed?

Vitamin A is key to almost every process in the body—the concert master, so to speak—not only for protein synthesis, but also for hormone production (including sex hormones like testosterone, and thyroid hormone); vitamin A is also key to immune system function, critical for healthy vision and hearing, plays a role in bone health, and works in tandem with vitamins D and K2 for everything from the prevention of heart disease to the production of feel-good chemicals. A diet of lean meat, or one that incorporates protein powders, is a recipe for hormone disruption, fatigue, depression, bone problems, auto-immune disease, vision and hearing problems, heart disease and even cancer."​

I'm sure the same can occur with cheese if the person isn't getting enough vitamin A elsewhere.

Good information, Chris masterjohn has some really good research on the fat-soluble vitamins.

 

[Amazoniac]

While it's silly to think that dairy protein can't support the development of a beast, muscle meat has creatine that can spare our own production, having therapeutic value in some situations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a diet with cheese as the main source of protein will be dependent on internal production.

 

[Amazoniac]

Crayatine - Examine

"There do exist deficiency symptoms that result in mental retardation.[2] They’re rare, but they pretty much establish the importance of this molecule as a vitamin-like compound."

"Dairy products have minimal creatine content, but beyond meat products they are the only significant source of dietary creatine."

"Carbohydrates provide quick energy in an anaerobic environment (high-intensity exercise), while fats provide sustained energy during periods of high oxygen availability (low-intensity exercise or rest). The breakdown of carbohydrates, fats, and ketones produces ATP (adenosine triphosphate). When cells use ATP for energy, this molecule is converted into adenosine diphosphate (ADP) and adenosine monophosphate (AMP). Creatine exists in cells to donate a phosphate group (energy) to ADP, turning this molecule back into ATP.[21][22][23][24]

By increasing the overall pool of cellular phosphocreatine, creatine supplementation can accelerate the recycling of ADP into ATP. Since ATP stores are rapidly depleted during intense muscular effort, one of the major benefits of creatine supplementation is its ability to regenerate ATP stores faster, which can promote increased strength and power output. Over 95% of creatine is stored in muscle at a maximum cellular concentration of 30uM. Creatine storage capacity is limited, though it increases as muscle mass increases.[25] A 70 kg male with an average physique is assumed to have total creatine stores of approximately 120g.[26] The body can store a lot more energy as glycogen in the liver, brain, and muscles,[27][28] and even more as fat."

"Without supplementation, creatine is formed primarily in the liver, with minor contributions from the pancreas and kidneys. The two amino acids, glycine and arginine, combine via the enzyme Arginine:Glycine amidinotransferase (AGAT) to form ornithine and guanidoacetate. This is the first of two steps in creatine synthesis, and although rare, any deficiency of this enzyme can result in mild mental retardation and muscular weakness.[29] AGAT is also the primary regulatory step, and an excess of dietary creatine can suppress activity of AGAT to reduce creatine synthesis[30] by reducing AGAT mRNA levels, rather than resulting in competitive inhibition.[31]

Guanidoacetate (made by AGAT) then receives a methyl donation from S-adenosyl methionine via the enzyme guanidinoacetate methyltransferase (GAMT), which produces S-adenosylhomocysteine (as a byproduct) and creatine. Deficiencies in GAMT are more severe (although equally rare) relative to AGAT, resulting in severe mental retardation and autism-like symptoms.[32]

For the most part, the above reactions occur in the liver,[33] where most systemic creatine is synthesized, but the AGAT and GAMT enzymes have been located in lesser amounts in kidney and pancreatic tissue (the extra-hepatic synthesis locales[34]). Neurons also possess the capability to synthesize their own creatine.[35]"

"As mentioned above, S-adenylmethionine must be converted to S-adenylhomocysteine in order for guanidoacetate to convert into creatine, during a process known as methylation.[36] It has been suggested that the production of creatine accounts for up to 40% of the S-adenylmethionine used in the body for methylation processes.[36][37]

Creatine supplementation alleviates the intrinsic burden of producing creatine. Supplementation reduces the expected increase in homocysteine[38] after intense exercise and may be a reason why creatine is seen as cardioprotective around the time of exercise.

After supplementation of creatine monohydrate (loading phase, followed by 19 weeks maintenance), creatine precursors are decreased by up to 50% (loading) or 30% (maintenance), which suggests a decrease in endogenous creatine synthesis during supplementation.[39] This appears to occur through creatine’s own positive feedback and suppression of the l-arginine:glycine amidinotransferase enzyme, the rate-limiting step in creatine synthesis, as levels of intermediates before this stage are typically elevated by up to 75%.[39]"

"Increasing cellular survival (preventing ATP depletion allows cells to survive longer) against hypoxia, oxidative damage, and some toxins that damage neurons and skeletal muscle cells is a mechanism of creatine supplementation mediated via creatine-kinase.[40][49][50] This has also been shown to have efficacy against toxin-induced seizures.[51]

Expressing the creatine-kinase enzyme in cells that do not normally express it (and thus enabling these cells to use creatine) exerts protective effects,[52] while inhibiting this enzyme reduces survival rates.[53]"

"Creatine is also a neurological nutrient. People who cannot produce endogenous creatine suffer from a form of mental retardation with autistic-like symptoms due to deficiencies in the enzymes of creatine synthesis (AGAT or GAMT).[58]

The main storage area of creatine in the human body is the skeletal (contractile) muscle, which holds true for other animals. Therefore, consumption of skeletal muscle (meat products) is the main human dietary source of creatine. Since vegetarians and vegans lack the main source of dietary creatine intake, which has been estimated to supply half of the daily requirements of creatine in normal people, both vegetarians and vegans have been reported to have lower levels of creatine.[59][60] This also applies to other meat-exclusive nutrients, such as L-Carnitine.[59]

Due to this relative deficiency-state in vegetarians and vegans, some aspects of creatine supplementation are seen as more akin to normalizing a deficiency, rather than providing the benefits of supplementation. In young vegetarians, but not omnivores, creatine supplementation can enhance cognition.[61][62] The increased gain in lean mass may be more significant in vegetarians, relative to omnivores.[60] Supplementation of creatine in vegetarians appears to normalize the gap in storage between vegetarians and omnivores.[63] This is possibly related to a correlation seen in survey research, where vegetarianism and veganism appear to be more commonly affected by some mental disorders like anxiety and depression.[64]"

"When creatine is absorbed it pulls water in with it, causing cells to swell. This “cell volumization” is known to promote a cellular anabolic state associated with less protein breakdown and increased DNA synthesis.[108][109][110]"

"Creatine is involved indirectly in whole body methylation processes. This is due to creatine synthesis having a relatively large methyl cost, as the creatine precursor known as guanidinoacetate (GAA) requires a methyl donation from S-adenosyl methionine (SAMe) in order to produce creatine. This may require up to half of the methyl groups available in the human body.[36][123]

Creatine supplementation will downregulate the body’s own production of creatine by suppressing the enzyme that mediates the above conversion (Guanidinoacetate methyltransferase or GAMT)[124], and because of this it is thought that SAMe gets backlogged and is more available for other processes that require it.

SAMe is the primary methyl donor in the human body, and supplements that preserve SAMe (such as trimethylglycine; TMG) promote a variety of benefits in the human body, like a reduction in homocysteine and reduced risk of fatty liver. Creatine has been implicated in both reducing homocysteine[125] and preventing fatty liver in rodents[126], thought to be secondary to preserving SAMe."

"In standard dosages (5-10g creatine monohydrate) the bioavailability of creatine in humans is approximately 99%,[69][84] although this value is subject to change with different conjugates (forms) of creatine and dosages.[84]"

"There is also evidence to suggest that increased ingestion of creatine leads to an increased fecal creatine value, suggesting that the intestinal uptake can be saturated.[47]"

"After the ingestion of 5g creatine in otherwise healthy humans, serum levels of creatine were elevated from fasting levels (50-100µM) to 600-800µM within one hour after consumption.[136] The receptor follows Michaelis-Menten kinetics with a Vmax obtained at concentrations higher than 0.3-0.4mmol/L,[137] with prolonged serum concentrations above this amount exerting most of its saturation within two days.[138]"

"Creatine is vital for proper neural functioning, and true creatine deficiency results in mental retardation.[2] Deficiency can occur through either hindered synthesis (lack of enzymes to make creatine, can be treated with supplementation) or by a lack of transport into the brain (untreatable with standard creatine)."

"Without supplementation, approximately 14.6mmol (2g) of creatinine, creatine’s urinary metabolite, is lost on a daily basis in a standard 70kg male ages 20-39. The value is slightly lower in females and the elderly due to a presence of less muscle mass.[36] This amount is considered necessary to obtain in either food or supplemental form to avoid creatine deficiency. Requirements may be increased in people with higher than normal lean mass.[36][198] Creatine excretion rates on a daily basis are correlated with muscle mass, and the value of 2g a day is derived from the aforementioned male population with about 120g creatine storage capacity.[36] Specifically, the rate of daily creatine losses is about 1.6%[199]-1.7%,[26] and mean losses for women are approximately 80% that of men due to less average lean mass.[36] For weight-matched elderly men (70kg, 70-79 years of age) the rate of loss of 7.8mmol/day,[50] or about half (53%) that of younger men."

"Creatine supplementation appears to augment the anti-cancer effects of Vitamin C and methylglyoxal,[463] a metabolic by-product of glycolysis.[464] Methylglycoxal appears to inhibit step 1 of the electron transport chain in isolated mitochondria and cancerous mitochondria, but has not been implicated in doing so in normal tissue, as protective measures in normal cells appear to exist.[465][464]"
@Travis

"COX-2 inhibitors (in this study, rofecoxib) and creatine monohydrate both appear to protect dopaminergic neurons from being destroyed by toxins, and can protect in an additive manner, suggesting possible usage of both to reduce the risk of Parkinson’s disease.[230]"

--
Ray Peat Email Advice Depository Discussion/Comment Thread

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Maybe it's better to divide the 2-3g standard daily dose in two:
Comparison of new forms of creatine in raising plasma creatine levels

--
There are certain cheeses that crumble after preparation (ricotta, etc), while others form a glued mass (mozzarella, etc). I've been thinking if the first type is more digestible.

 

[Amazoniac]

The creatine difference between meats and dairy might explain why the needs for choline are more easily met with the inclusion of meats in the diet despite the fact that both contain more or less similar amounts of it.

 

[Amazoniac]

There are various commercial cheeses that use slightly more curdling agents than needed because it makes them firmer, and so they keep looking good despite customers' punches. By making them tougher, they become harder to be digested and can create problems.

Another problem is the use of calcium and sodium chloride, add to the story supplementation with magnesium chloride and you have a massive, unusual and unnatural input of chlorine that can create imbalances if a lot if consumed.

 

[Amazoniac]

Glutathione is needed to regenerate vit of the Cs as pointed out by Chris. It was also already pointed out the (probable) possibility of cheese depleting it through an excess of methionine without enough glycine and lack of other nutrients (above).

Casein indigestion is not uncommon (hence the effects of opioids*), and if the diet has an excess of calcium and sodium, this combination can make the vit C situation worse; deranged calcification is a clue (also some sort of sub and clinical scurvy).
*there is some discussion on 'bcm7 (affecting) antioxidants' if you search for it.

gbolduev used to stress that whenever there's not enough proteid (such as casein the indigestion that I think I experienced a few times), the body will catabolize itself, and prioritize some parts at the expense of others. This process strains the adrenals of the glands requiring extra vit C.

Supplementing is definitely better than becoming deficient and 1g can make a lot of difference. But sometimes a supplement can be useful just for the sake of testing.

Effects of vitamin C and vitamin D interaction on the performance, immunity, and bone characteristics of commercial broilers

"Vitamin C is reported to reduce plasma corticosterone, a stress hormone, and the heterophil:lymphocyte (H:L) ratio. Sergeev et al. [9] reported first that VC plays a critical role in VD metabolism and binding in guinea pigs. Their study strongly suggested that VC affects the vitamin D endocrine system both at the level of 1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol [1,25-(OH)2D3] formation in kidneys and its receptor binding in the target tissue. Their further research has demonstrated that in VC-deficient guinea pigs, serum 25-hydroxycholecalciferol (25-OHD3) and receptor concentrations for 1,25-(OH)2D3 in the intestinal mucosa are significantly decreased.
Vitamin C is required for the conversion of VD into its metabolite form calcitrol, which is essential for calcium regulation and the calcification process [10]. Vitamin C is required for hydroxylation of proline residues necessary for the synthesis of procollagen, which is a precursor to bone formation. Vitamin C has been reported to improve leg bone conditions in stressed birds. Because birds synthesize their own VC, the role of exogenous VC is still unclear in collagen synthesis. The conversion of 25(OH)D3 to 1,25(OH)D3 and 24,25(OH)D3 is dependent on the supply of VC [11]. Farquhsarson et al. [12] reported reduced incidence of tibial dyschondroplasia in broilers (40 to 11%) when the diet was supplemented with VC. Supplements of 1,25(OH)D3 completely eliminated tibial dyschondroplasia. In these studies, supplements of ascorbic acid and 1,25(OH)2D3 had the same effect on some key bone resorption marker enzymes."

Demonstration of rapid onset vascular endothelial dysfunction after hyperhomocysteinemia: an effect reversible with vitamin C therapy - @Daniel

 

[InChristAlone]

Supplementing is definitely better than becoming deficient and 1g can make a lot of difference. But sometimes a supplement can be useful just for the sake of testing.

What?! 1gram can make a lot of difference?? When did you see the dark side?

 

[Wagner83]

Casein indigestion is not uncommon (hence the effects of opioids*), and if the diet has an excess of calcium and sodium, this combination can make the vit C situation worse; deranged calcification is a clue (also some sort of sub and clinical scurvy).
*there is some discussion on 'bcm7 (affecting) antioxidants' if you search for it.

gbolduev used to stress that whenever there's not enough proteid (such as casein the indigestion that I think I experienced a few times), the body will catabolize itself, and prioritize some parts at the expense of others. This process strains the adrenals of the glands requiring extra vit C.
@Daniel

To define what an excess of calcium and sodium is I guess we should venture away from Peat. Do you have any idea what the excess is? From what I gathered among quality members of the forums, potassium/sodium and magnesium/calcium and calcium/phosphorus ratios would be important, but does that mean they are the only reliably way to kantify what an excess is and that no amount is by definition too much?

This is of course interesting given the talk there has been on not only the opioids effects of certain proteins, but also the putrefaction from within. That does make me curious about the use of supplementing various protease in a healing phase. My bro-bro is on the way so I'll see how well it works, but generally digestive enzymes or even things like thiamine/betaine HCL could be worth looking into to help the body rebuild itself (e.g. tolerate gelatin and use the glycine in it). BCAAs, potatoes juice and other blends of amino/keto-acids could be worth considering as well.

 

[Amazoniac]

To define what an excess of calcium and sodium is I guess we should venture away from Peat. Do you have any idea what the excess is? From what I gathered among quality members of the forums, potassium/sodium and magnesium/calcium and calcium/phosphorus ratios would be important, but does that mean they are the only reliably way to kantify what an excess is and that no amount is by definition too much?

This is of course interesting given the talk there has been on not only the opioids effects of certain proteins, but also the putrefaction from within. That does make me curious about the use of supplementing various protease in a healing phase. My bro-bro is on the way so I'll see how well it works, but generally digestive enzymes or even things like thiamine/betaine HCL could be worth looking into to help the body rebuild itself (e.g. tolerate gelatin and use the glycine in it). BCAAs, potatoes juice and other blends of amino/keto-acids could be worth considering as well.

I guess the only practical way of knowing if things are on the right track is through perceiving how the body is reacting.
[Observe and] treat your body as if it was a... | Ray Peat Forum

"After six to twelve weeks, animal proteins are added in the form of pot cheese (saltless and creamless), yoghurt made from skimmed milk, and buttermilk."
"Cultured dairy proteins (yoghurt & pot cheese) should be added at (not before) the sixth to eighth week according to the physician's judgement (pp. 80, 145, 146, 235). Exception: use churned, not cultured buttermilk."

However! He also included digestive enzymes in his protocol. I enjoy quoting him because he worked with debilitated people and developed a successful regimen through experimentation.

I read your words on the other thread. I don't know if they were for me (received notification that's no longer there) or Zeus, but here's something for you either of the way: ♡

 

[Amazoniac]

via Chris Masterjohn

Spoiler: A molybdenum deficiency induced by cheese?

A great of minerals are lost in whey, I suspect molybdenum is one of them.

Preview

Koveras, thank you a lot for the stuff that you've been posting. I didn't miss your message on the other thread, I wanted to read the link later with more care.

 

[Amazoniac]

Cottage cheese with a sweetener tastes good but lacks nutrition. This is not significant if dairy is just a treat in the diet, but to be the main source of proteid, it deserves more attention when it comes to combinations.

Strained orange of the juices pairs well with cheese and is quite nutritious, but would not correct B12 and there won't be enough fiber. If the intestines are moving great, the missing fiber won't be a big deal, but otherwise it's good to include more of them to prevent proteid decay:

The interaction between dietary proteins and resistant starch on large bowel health - Shusuke Toden
"Colonic DNA damage was greatest and the mucus barrier was thinnest in rats fed 0% HAMS [high-amylose maize (resistant) starch on a 25% casein diet]. DNA damage was reduced and thickness of the mucus barrier increased in a logarithmic dose-dependent manner by HAMS."