Why Does Liver Give Me Insane Heartburn?

InChristAlone

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This is good to know.

@Janelle525, how do you know your liver enzymes were raised? Did you have a recent blood test? Just curious.
Yes, a basic blood test from life extension included AST and ALT.
 
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raypeatclips

raypeatclips

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Small update. Based on 3 experiences, chicken liver has none of the heartburn issues I get with lamb or beef liver. It tastes and feels much "lighter" to eat, while i always felt the other livers were fairly "dense" and strong tasting. The only thing noticeably different I can see is that chicken liver doesn't contain much copper in comparison to the others, although the heartburn issues could be caused by something else entirely.

So for anyone that experiences this too give chicken liver a try and report back.
 
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raypeatclips

raypeatclips

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Here's a little comparison I just made. Big differences seem to be B12 (but still far less than common b12 supplements) Chicken liver is lower in vitamin A than I thought in comparison, but maybe not a bad thing, I take topically A pretty much daily. Copper again stands out as being possibly a big factor, chicken liver not even reaching Cronometers daily copper RDA. Iron is not good though.
 

Dotdash

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By the way, I asked Peat about this issue, eating liver and heartburn. He said it takes a lot of carbohydrate and fat to digest liver, and that he liked eating ice cream after his serving of liver. The last two times I ate liver, I had a generous bowl of ice cream afterwards and got no heartburn issues.

Thanks for this. I don't get heartburn type pain but sometimes get an outrageous muscle spasm directly below the breastbone. It happened just yesterday with only a couple ounces of beef liver. I don't cook it in fat - more like parboil it with either a couple Tbsp coffee or beef stock. It never occurred to me it may need more fat than what it contains in order to digest it. Carbs I understand. Ice cream after liver sounds like a good way to end the meal.
 

InChristAlone

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I had about 2 oz beef liver yesterday and had no indigestion and slept through the night! Maybe I was just going through a period of low stomach acid during the winter. I used my heat lamp for like an hour or two yesterday too. I think that's helpful when not getting sunlight. Also, I used salt and pepper on it. I don't normally use much pepper but I remembered that it can help stimulate digestion..
 
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EIRE24

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I had about 2 oz beef liver losterday and had no indigestion and slept through the night! Maybe I was just going through a period of low stomach acid during the winter. I used my heat lamp for like an hour or two yesterday too. I think that's helpful when not getting sunlight. Also, I used salt and pepper on it. I don't normally use much pepper but I remembered that it can help stimulate digestion..
I find this can happen to me at times too and HCL and ACV help in stimulating digestion. Do you think the vitamin C you are taking has helped things at all? I know you did very high doses?
 

InChristAlone

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I find this can happen to me at times too and HCL and ACV help in stimulating digestion. Do you think the vitamin C you are taking has helped things at all? I know you did very high doses?
Yes I still do about 4 grams a day. It doesn't really help early digestion. And I guess even hamper it if taken with big meals. So I generally use it in the morning.
 

Mossy

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I have low bile issues (liver issues in general), and issues with digestion (presumably with all digestive/pancreatic enzymes and acids, based on my symptoms).

For a while eating anything that stimulated digestion (stuff like liver, pickled ginger, or even just a lot of fat) would often cause a "hyper digestive state" in which the organs feeding into or around the common bile duct seemed to be in overdrive, but then everything south of the stomach was hyper, hyper SLOW. So everything seemed to go into my stomach and would just sit there trying to move through, with increasing burn and pain. I'd get these horrible, painful, burning attacks that radiated up into my throat and into my back, that I thought were gallbladder or pancreatitis, but finally a visit to the hospital with labs revealed no abnormal levels of anything apparent anywhere in bloodwork or on scans.

From reading about other people's digestive problems and symptoms, I realized I probably had partial, intermittent gastroparesis, where part of the alimentary canal is working but part of it stops. Mainstream thought is that gastroparesis is brought about by damage to the vagus nerve, but based on what we know around and my experience with it, I figure most of it what most people experience is probably due to some kind of acute neurotransmitter imbalance. Lots of receptors in the gut for various neurotransmitters, not just serotonin. So it stands to reason that an acute neurotransmitter imbalance would lead to digestive issues. Also worth noting is that many of the substances the nervous system needs are also used by various organs to function or perform other functions. Choline is an easy one that comes to mind...the liver needs choline to function optiomally, but choline is also used for various nervous system functions. So there might be a "double drain" on choline in people who don't get enough, or in people who can't utilize it properly due to liver dysfunction or some other cause.

Sadly, I've forgotten a lot of what I read about all this back when I was having problems (mainly because I've corrected the acute problem and don't refer back to it much), but I do remember what helped me. Making a list here in case it helps anyone else.

--Taurine combined with glycine. I use powders. These two are necessary for the creation of bile. Usage is ongoing and probably lifelong, although the dose now is less in amount and less frequent than when I was having acute problems. At least once daily for sure, for maintenance. With every meal when acute.

--Choline. But not too much, as choline can cause excitotoxicity. Taking everyday for a few days or a week and then going down to every few days or once per week dosage is fine. Prefer alpha GPC because has most actual choline available for use in the liver. Other forms like citicholine are much lower in choline and are more for nootropic effect. They can cause nervousness, jitteriness, etc. Alpha GPC is still a staple in my medicine cabinet although I don't need to use it regularly any more. Only occasional PRN use. Once a digestive problem is rectified eating eggs might do the trick, although I found eggs ineffective to get choline in the beginning because my body couldn't digest them well enough to derive benefit from the choline they contained.

--NOT drinking coffee. Coffee is anticholinesterase inhibitor, and we need the proper breakdown and uptake of acetylcholine in order to avoid excitotoxicity and for proper digestion and neurotransmitter formation. Especially avoid coffee when taking choline. I don't care what Peat or anyone says about caffeine, IME/IMO coffee/caffeine is not something anyone needs to do on a daily basis, especially not people with existing health issues. It takes too many/much vitamins/minerals/energy to metabolize it properly. IME/IMO anyone with acute digestive issues should avoid coffee and caffeine. Occasional use once acute problems are resolved is probably fine. I love it, but can't use it more than a few days in a row without negative excitotoxic effects showing up.

--TUDCA. AKA tauroursodeoxychloric acid, or taurine conjugated with ursodeoxychloric acid aka ox bile. Available OTC. If you take TUDCA read up on it, I found it very benign but there may be some caveats such as watching alcohol intake while using it. With TUDCA you can skip the taurine mentioned above, since taurine comes in TUDCA, and supplement only with glycine powder. TUDCA not necessary for long-term supplementation but very helpful in acute and newly subacute situations.

--UDCA. Same as TUDCA but without the taurine. Available by prescription only, but can be had easily enough via international pharmacies. I actually prefer to use UDCA and supplement with taurine/glycine powders separately, instead of using TUDCA. But getting UDCA can be a bit of a pain, and TUDCA is fine. Which to use probably depends on availability, preference, and perspective.

--Combo OTC bile acids and digestive enzymes with every meal, but not too much. Don't use these at same time as UDCA or TUDCA. I like Jarrow Bile Acid factors, but can be very strong so don't overdo. When I was first rectifying my problems I used UDCA or TUDCA alone as I found the OTC combos too strong, and they would sometimes cause problems. Now I can take the cheaper although overall less therapeutic combo supps.

--Gelatin. Via broth or powder. I prefer broth as I think it has better therapeutic effect. But high quality powdered gelatin is probably fine even if it can cause more problems in folks with digestive issues. IME/IMO hydrolyzed collagen has no therapeutic value, so don't sub the gelatin powder with that.

Those are my main recommendations. I haven't had an attack in nearly two years, although based on some subacute symptoms I suspect I still have silent acid reflux. But even that continues to improve with ongoing supplementation, careful attention to diet like regular intake of gelatin, and some lifestyle modification. I expect I will lick the silent acid reflux eventually, too.

Good luck!
Really informative post. Thank you.
 

RealNeat

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By the way, I asked Peat about this issue, eating liver and heartburn. He said it takes a lot of carbohydrate and fat to digest liver, and that he liked eating ice cream after his serving of liver. The last two times I ate liver, I had a generous bowl of ice cream afterwards and got no heartburn issues.
This seems so counterintuitive to me.
I understand the carb aspect what I don't understand is the calcium, "liquid" and cold. Both can hinder digestion of protein.

Eating at least half hour before the meal seems most logical.
 

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