Peat Battle Rumble: The Ultimate Anti-Histamine Wonder Drug

[HDD]

From longnaturalhealth.com -

• Supplement Facts: Serving Size 3 drops, Servings per Container about 300
• Natural d-alpha tocopherol &/or mixed tocopherols (vitamin E) 4-22 mg per drop; 12-66 mg per serving
• Natural progesterone derived from wild yam 3 mg per drop; 9 mg per serving
• Other Ingredients: Vegetable triglycerides (plant-based, sourced from either olive or coconut)

**The vitamin E in the Progest-E Complex is derived from soy, yet many people with soy allergies have no problem with Progest-E because for most people the allergic reaction is a response to soy proteins.There are no proteins in the oily fractions of the plant (such as vitamin E), which is a highly purified distillate.If you have a soy allergy, it is best to first test on a small area of the skin (ex: ankle).

**The Vitamin E is derived from NON-GMO soy.

**The progesterone in Dr. Peat`s Progest-E Complex is USP.

 

[alywest]

Where is this quote from? Hard to believe I missed soy-based ingredients when buying this for friends...

They disclaim the fact that they use soy by saying "it's not the oily part so it's ok." It seems they have taken that off of their website? It's been posted on this forum a few times.

The quote I posted earlier was from this website: Progest E Review (UPDATED 2017): Don't Buy Before You Read This!

*Edit to say that they claim that it's only the oily part of the soy, not the proteins, so that makes it ok. They still also claim that Ray Peat was the one who is responsible for that even thought the company Kenogen has one sole owner (Katherine Raaum of Eugene, OR.)

 

[alywest]

.

 

[alywest]

Even though you completely ignored my comment (not unusual on this forum full of men)

I hear you, sister!

 

[InChristAlone]

Don't think it is a men vs women thing... As much as the 2017 environment isn't conducive to male-female relationships
I think it is more of a people filtering out anything that is a red flag for "not within my strict paradigm." Then again, with even the most "accurate paradigms," some people end up having zero success due to misapplication and just general sickliness.

True, I underestimate how much is red flagged if it doesn't fit someone's paradigm.

It is hard for me not to speak up, I've been taking .5 mg cyproheptadine for a yr, I tried getting off it but as soon as the start of my period I was getting my old symptoms back and had to go back on, these drugs are not easy to get off, including hormones, I also tried not using progesterone one month and that was when I crashed with panic attacks. So I don't take lightly when someone says they need a lot of stuff to feel ok. Vitamin C is easy to experiment with and could make getting off some of this stuff easier. I still have some caution so maybe if I did do bowel tolerance all day I could withdraw from cyproheptadine finally.

I hear you, sister!

 

[alywest]

So

True, I underestimate how much is red flagged if it doesn't fit someone's paradigm.

It is hard for me not to speak up, I've been taking .5 mg cyproheptadine for a yr, I tried getting off it but as soon as the start of my period I was getting my old symptoms back and had to go back on, these drugs are not easy to get off, including hormones, I also tried not using progesterone one month and that was when I crashed with panic attacks. So I don't take lightly when someone says they need a lot of stuff to feel ok. Vitamin C is easy to experiment with and could make getting off some of this stuff easier. I still have some caution so maybe if I did do bowel tolerance all day I could withdraw from cyproheptadine finally.

Are you using progest-e, too, Janelle525?

 

[InChristAlone]

Yes about 3 mg a day 2nd half of cycle. I like to use the smallest dose necessary with hormones and drugs.

 

[Owen B]

They disclaim the fact that they use soy by saying "it's not the oily part so it's ok." It seems they have taken that off of their website? It's been posted on this forum a few times.

The quote I posted earlier was from this website: Progest E Review (UPDATED 2017): Don't Buy Before You Read This!

*Edit to say that they claim that it's only the oily part of the soy, not the proteins, so that makes it ok. They still also claim that Ray Peat was the one who is responsible for that even thought the company Kenogen has one sole owner (Katherine Raaum of Eugene, OR.)

I don't know where you got the quote from either.

It may have been Haidut's response to my post in "Progesterone is androgenic". My concern was about compounded T and whether it was reliable. i remarked that most compounded hormones (I never said Progesterone) like T are fractionated out of soy.

When Haidut replied to that, he mentioned that Progesterone is not compounded out of soy and that companies (that make AndroGel, for example) add soy isoflavones to aid skin absorption.

That whole exchange about soy isoflavones was about compounded T and products like AndroGel. No one (me or Haidut) suggested that Progesterone (Progest-E) had anything to do with soy isoflavones.

Incidentally, while although it may be true that Ray does not own the Kenogen product, when i buy it, it comes with a two page fact and dosing sheet written by Ray.

BTW, in case anyone is interested, I spoke to a person at the company that makes AndroGel today. They don't even use soy anymore but will not say what they do use. He also said that they use isoflavones in the cream but will not say what kind. And he said they're inactive.

what happens at the neighborhood compounding pharmacy I couldn't say.

 

[alywest]

I don't know where you got the quote from either.

It may have been Haidut's response to my post in "Progesterone is androgenic". My concern was about compounded T and whether it was reliable. i remarked that most compounded hormones (I never said Progesterone) like T are fractionated out of soy.

When Haidut replied to that, he mentioned that Progesterone is not compounded out of soy and that companies (that make AndroGel, for example) add soy isoflavones to aid skin absorption.

That whole exchange about soy isoflavones was about compounded T and products like AndroGel. No one (me or Haidut) suggested that Progesterone (Progest-E) had anything to do with soy isoflavones.

Incidentally, while although it may be true that Ray does not own the Kenogen product, when i buy it, it comes with a two page fact and dosing sheet written by Ray.

BTW, in case anyone is interested, I spoke to a person at the company that makes AndroGel today. They don't even use soy anymore but will not say what they do use. He also said that they use isoflavones in the cream but will not say what kind. And he said they're inactive.

what happens at the neighborhood compounding pharmacy I couldn't say.

According to the link in the post you quoted they claim progest-e contains soy isoflavones. Long Natural claims only the vitamin e is derived from soy and therefore contains no soy proteins. Some people on this forum (including myself) experienced extremely painful breasts and mood swings when using Progest-E although many people haven't. Snce I have switched to a non- soy progesterone formula I haven't experienced the same things.

 

[DaveFoster]

I sometimes worry that many chronically sick people give health advice to other chronically sick people on the internet. I'm not directing this at you, but how have you decided that what you need is a better antihistamine drug? If it is winter sickness, then what about using a tanning bed for 2-minutes 3-times per week with coconut oil? I mean, don't you think people who are following paradigms you disagree with (like paleo) also have similar experiences of being up and down for various months (and attributing it to not executing their own paradigms well enough)? Do you feel like you understand the cause(s) of your health problem(s)?

I see what you're saying.

I've thought myself hypocritical for advising while suffering, and therefore I seldom advise unless asked for information, although I do share my experiences.

My understanding evolves with time, and I'm using all the resources available to me with regard to safety foremost. I feel that the descriptions of hypothyroidism provided by Dr. Peat, along with a gradual worsening of symptoms into the winter points to seasonal affective disorder as a hypometabolic disease that affects brain metabolism.

I don't like using high dosages of anything, but I take enough of whatever modalities to diminish symptoms, and I prioritize diet and hormones, then safe medications, and lastly relatively safe medications.

I agree with Waynish, Dave. Even though you completely ignored my comment (not unusual on this forum full of men), I'm still following your story.

Hey Janelle, I was tired when I reviewed this thread and replied to Waynish so I forgot to reply to you. I can't take vitamin C, as it irritates my gut.

 

[InChristAlone]

Hey Janelle, I was tired when I reviewed this thread and replied to Waynish so I forgot to reply to you. I can't take vitamin C, as it irritates my gut.

Have you tried real lipo-C? Or maybe you'd need to do neutralized sodium ascorbate? I started on neutralized but can take it straight now with no issue. I think it heals the gut. I used to have IBS-C, not even a hint of it anymore.

 

[DaveFoster]

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but Progest-E has soy isoflavones in it which negates andronergic properties. It can also cause a lot of allergic symptoms on its own!!!!

Progest E is a unique supplement in that it’s a liquid product intended for oral consumption and it must be kept in the refrigerator. While multiple sites list the ingredients used to make this product, there’s no official label that was posted for consumer evaluation. Based on what we’ve learned about Progest E, here is what you can expect to find inside:

Soy Isoflavones: Soy contains chemicals known as isoflavones (called genistein and daidzein), which are thought to mimic the effect of certain hormones inside the body.

Isoflavones are often used to help regulate hormone balance, resulting in relief from menopausal symptoms like hot flashes, mood swings or night sweats.

Something worth mentioning—this ingredient has been associated with both exacerbating hormone-sensitive breast, ovarian or endometrial cancers, as well as reducing the risk.

Users may want to talk to a doctor before taking a product containing soy if they have one of these cancers or are at a higher risk of developing these conditions.

• Side effects may include gas, bloating or an allergic reaction with use.

Wild Yam: A plant that contains a compound known as diosgenin, which may be made into various steroid hormones like DHEA or estrogen. Wild yam is thought to help women reduce hot flashes during menopause and is marketed as a natural alternative to hormone replacement therapy.

I make my own Progest-E with TocoVit and micronized progesterone, but I will keep it in the refrigerator from now on. Thank you.

Let's move this to my log if we can. This thread deals directly with antihistamines.

 

[alywest]

From longnaturalhealth.com -

• Supplement Facts: Serving Size 3 drops, Servings per Container about 300
• Natural d-alpha tocopherol &/or mixed tocopherols (vitamin E) 4-22 mg per drop; 12-66 mg per serving
• Natural progesterone derived from wild yam 3 mg per drop; 9 mg per serving
• Other Ingredients: Vegetable triglycerides (plant-based, sourced from either olive or coconut)

**The vitamin E in the Progest-E Complex is derived from soy, yet many people with soy allergies have no problem with Progest-E because for most people the allergic reaction is a response to soy proteins.There are no proteins in the oily fractions of the plant (such as vitamin E), which is a highly purified distillate.If you have a soy allergy, it is best to first test on a small area of the skin (ex: ankle).

**The Vitamin E is derived from NON-GMO soy.

**The progesterone in Dr. Peat`s Progest-E Complex is USP.

Are you still using Progest-E HDD? I was reading a thread from a few years back where everyone was noticing a change in the product, and it seems like a lot people gave up on it at that point because of weird symptoms. Do you feel that the soy derived e made a difference or perhaps it was the supplier of the E? I doubt that Kenogen makes their own vitamin E.

 

[HDD]

Are you still using Progest-E HDD? I was reading a thread from a few years back where everyone was noticing a change in the product, and it seems like a lot people gave up on it at that point because of weird symptoms. Do you feel that the soy derived e made a difference or perhaps it was the supplier of the E? I doubt that Kenogen makes their own vitamin E.

Yes, I still use Progest-E, but not regularly. I am post menopausal (almost dead lol) so I have never used it for specific symptoms that are noted in cycling women. I have also used Progestene and Simply Peogesterone. I went back to Progest-E, because that was what I used initially and it seemed easier to determine the amount I was getting in each drop. Progestene (I think had dsmo then) flowed out quickly and it was difficult to squeeze a drop out of the Simply Progesterone product.

It has been my understanding that estrogenic symptoms were caused from circulating estrogen due to progesterone knocking estrogen out of the cell, and that women who experienced this required a higher dose initially and those that used thyroid prior to progesterone did not experience the estrogenic symptoms. However, Peat has said (email replies) that extraneous substances or taking progesterone at the wrong time could cause symptoms and using t3 helps control the symptoms.

 

[Owen B]

According to the link in the post you quoted they claim progest-e contains soy isoflavones. Long Natural claims only the vitamin e is derived from soy and therefore contains no soy proteins. Some people on this forum (including myself) experienced extremely painful breasts and mood swings when using Progest-E although many people haven't. Snce I have switched to a non- soy progesterone formula I haven't experienced the same things.

I can't imagine Ray giving his unofficial approval of the Kenogen if that were true. But maybe you're right. I don't know what to say about Long Natural Health's claim.

I haven't experienced anything negative from it is all I know.

 

[BigChad]

I've had urticaria since my teens,cold air brought it out etc.
Members of family have some sort of histamine issue also ,my nephew has mastocytosis .

Theanine is working well for me. Clearing grains out of my diet is proving very positive, if I introduce them anyway at all I get constipated and I feel agitated. This is a ****88 up epiphany of sorts to make at my age. I get dry skin and slight itching from one biscuit since using Peats guidelines and cleaning myself up biologically, I use to survive on pastas,oats ,etc.

It seems if you push through with more grains you might get rid of the constipation but it doesn't take away from the observations I have made personally. Without grains ,no constipation,dry skin or agitation.

I notice an ampethamine like effect from things that can increase it directly or indirectly, I thought Thiamine was great but after Getting used to symptoms of increased stress substances that offer instant memory regurgition I'm starting to thing I was mistaken.

Thiamine makes me fluent and I did like it but the jury is out on it for me, it can increase histamine and cause mast cells to de -granulate , I will continue to explore it.
Does anybody know that energy and verbal fluency you get from thiamine like some other stress reactions,like hypomania symptom? I'm guessing in histamine sensitive this can be an issue?
you can answer and want to answer any question with an overload of info? Theanine doesn't do this for me, I'm more inclined to listen clearly realise I don't need to answer everything?
I'm guessing this is a more coherent behaviour?

DMSO does something similar to me, I definitely get a histamine response on the skin.

Can you post some more info. Where did you find out thiamine raises histamine and effects mast cells. Ive never heard that

 

[Mauritio]

The Effect of the Antihistaminic Drugs on the Central Action of 5-hydroxytryptophan in Mice - PubMed

 

[Dave Clark]

Forefront Health follows Dr. Peat's protocols, this article may be of interest:
Hypothyroidism and Histamine Intolerance and the 2-Step Fix

 

[golder]

What’s the consensus on the top5 best natural antihistamines (food/supplemental)? I want to maximise these in my diet alongside everything else.

 

[Samurai Drive]

A serotonin antagonist (cypro) and a dopamine agonist (bromo) could do it, or a dopamine agonist on its own (lisuride/metergoline). I'm currently using cyproheptadine and mirtazapine with great results.

Hello Dave. Can you tell me what dose of mirtzapine you used and if there are any downsides please?