"Essential" Hypertension And Appreciating It For What It Really Is

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yerrag

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What are your thyroid blood results ? Often higher blood pressure is related to low thyroid. You say they are normal, but it would be good to see the results.

Peeing often is a low cortisol issue. So if at nighttime this means your body is in a low cortisol state and so will not relax enough. Thyroid meds taken at bedtime is the best time to take them. People sleep a lot better as the thyroid system is supported and you don't need to tax the adrenal system.
My thyroid blood tests are fine, although I did not have the reverse T3 test, only TSH, T3, and T4. To be sure, I took temperature and pulse readings, as well as did the Achilles tendon reflex test, took my QTc value from an ECG. All these confirm that my thyroid is fine. As for my cortisol, I also had both am and pm cortisol tests taken recently, and they are actually fine.

I'm not taking anything that will have the effect of increasing my metabolism currently, as in my condition, I notice that taking supplements to artificially boost my metabolism results in increased blood pressure. As my goal is to reduce my blood pressure, I would want to avoid supplements that I observe would be increasing my blood pressure.

The peeing issue is a problem, and I haven't found a solution to it yet.
 
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yerrag

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After mentioning that taking Vitamin C causes more urination, and saying that I would want to avoid it before bedtime, I did the opposite last night. I thought about my experience with skipping meals and having no hunger and still being able to stay alert, after having vitamin C, and I thought to myself why not try it before bedtime. So I did.

Except for the large amount of urination, I slept well, not feeling hunger that would make it hard to fall asleep, or interrupt my sleep.
 

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That's interesting and could very well be the case with my experience. I also noticed that even without eating, after two intakes of 1.1 g of ascorbic acid in the morning, and skipping lunch, I not only felt alert and not in hunger, but experienced possibly higher metabolism, as my metabolism was in the mid-80s, where I normally would see it around the low 70s. I did not check temperature though, as taking readings with my armpit thermometer takes too much time.
Don't forget about the adrenals, they could be another way to explain this: The adrenals have the highest amount of vitamin C in the body, where it ostensibly acts to keep epinephrine active—with electrons. Ascorbate might also be necessary for the formation of epinephrine itself. Either way, or both, the relationship of vitamin C and the adrenals could be something to look into…
 
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Don't forget about the adrenals, they could be another way to explain this: The adrenals have the highest amount of vitamin C in the body, where it ostensibly acts to keep epinephrine active—with electrons. Ascorbate might also be necessary for the formation of epinephrine itself. Either way, or both, the relationship of vitamin C and the adrenals could be something to look into…
So with the adrenals involved, it's possible that the glycogen is being converted to sugar, and the sugar is being burned very efficiently with the help of the electrons from vitamin C.

I would usually notice my blood pressure going up when I take metabolism boosting supplements, but this time my metabolism is up, while my blood pressure is down. I'm guessing that with increased efficiency, there is less need for more oxygen, and with oxygen demand being constant, the delivery of oxygen from the blood won't have to change, and my blood won't be forced to increase its flow rate, or may in fact be having less flow, thus the pressure would also be lowered. All this because Vitamin is enabling oxidative metabolism.

I didn't mention that I'm also taking magnesium chloride, potassium chloride, and salt. Magnesium chloride initially to increase magnesium stores in my body, in order to allow more potassium to be retained by the body, and salt in order to help with increasing blood volume, in order to lower blood pressure. The increased body magnesium may also having an effect on aiding oxidative metabolism.
 

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So with the adrenals involved, it's possible that the glycogen is being converted to sugar, and the sugar is being burned very efficiently with the help of the electrons from vitamin C.

I would usually notice my blood pressure going up when I take metabolism boosting supplements, but this time my metabolism is up, while my blood pressure is down. I'm guessing that with increased efficiency, there is less need for more oxygen, and with oxygen demand being constant, the delivery of oxygen from the blood won't have to change, and my blood won't be forced to increase its flow rate, or may in fact be having less flow, thus the pressure would also be lowered. All this because Vitamin is enabling oxidative metabolism.

I didn't mention that I'm also taking magnesium chloride, potassium chloride, and salt. Magnesium chloride initially to increase magnesium stores in my body, in order to allow more potassium to be retained by the body, and salt in order to help with increasing blood volume, in order to lower blood pressure. The increased body magnesium may also having an effect on aiding oxidative metabolism.
Magnesium forms a complex with ATP, which needs magnesium to work in some instances. When the rates of certain ATP enzymes are measured in the lab, magnesium is often added as a requirement.
 

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My thyroid blood tests are fine, although I did not have the reverse T3 test, only TSH, T3, and T4. To be sure, I took temperature and pulse readings, as well as did the Achilles tendon reflex test, took my QTc value from an ECG. All these confirm that my thyroid is fine. As for my cortisol, I also had both am and pm cortisol tests taken recently, and they are actually fine.

I'm not taking anything that will have the effect of increasing my metabolism currently, as in my condition, I notice that taking supplements to artificially boost my metabolism results in increased blood pressure. As my goal is to reduce my blood pressure, I would want to avoid supplements that I observe would be increasing my blood pressure.

The peeing issue is a problem, and I haven't found a solution to it yet.

But what are the results of the thyroid tests ? The huge issue in the thyroid world is that patients are told they are fine and bloods are good, but the reality is often the reverse. Many docs go by the TSH only and if this is in range then all is good. TSH wants to be around 1. If TSH goes above 2 very often issues start to develop. When docs do treat a patient they try and get the TSH down to 1.

So come on post them up.
 
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But what are the results of the thyroid tests ? The huge issue in the thyroid world is that patients are told they are fine and bloods are good, but the reality is often the reverse. Many docs go by the TSH only and if this is in range then all is good. TSH wants to be around 1. If TSH goes above 2 very often issues start to develop. When docs do treat a patient they try and get the TSH down to 1.

So come on post them up.
Blood Test Results - Please Comment On My Condition

Like I said, I don't rely only on endocrine blood markers.
 

Travis

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On a hunch I performed a quick search, and it turns‐out that vitamin C greatly enhances norepinephrine (noradrenaline) biosynthesis in the adrenals:


They ran a series of experiments with cells extracted from the adrenal medulla, called chromaffin cells: These are the cells which completely synthesize epinephrine—starting from tyrosine . . . or perhaps even starting from phenylalanine.

Using radiolabled tyrosine, they dosed these adrenal cells with ascorbic acid—and a control—and measured the radioactive products formed.

"Under these conditions, the cells loaded with ascorbate were found to double the rate of norepinephrine biosynthesis from [¹⁴C]‐tyrosine compared to control." ―Levine

Since ascorbic acid did not increase neither the amounts of radioactive L-DOPA or [¹⁴C]‐dopamine formed, they were able to pin this effect down to the very last step of norepinephrine biosynthesis (see graphic below): the hydroxylation of the β-carbon of dopamine to norepinephrine, catalyzed by the enzyme dopamine β-monooxygenase.

dopa.png


…with norepinephrine being only one N‐methylation away from becoming epinephrine (adrenaline).

"Thus, these experiments suggested that enhancement of norepinephrine biosynthesis by ascorbic acid appears to be due to an increase in the rate of dopamine hydroxylation." ―Levine

So you might expect vitamin C supplementation to actually increase the rate of norepinephrine synthesis—and hence, epinephrine biosynthesis—in the adrenals. This could have the effect of suppressing appetite a bit, and could increase energy in general. Vitamin C is not popularly known as an 'energy molecule' but this does, in fact, seem to be the case. It is actually difficult to think of anything more deserving of such a title, as it actually doubles norepinephrine production in the adrenals. But since the exact mechanism does not seem to be known, one is left wondering if anything else can do the same.

"Ascorbic acid donates electrons to dopamine β-monooxygenase during the hydroxylation of dopamine to norepinephrine in vitro. However, the possible role of ascorbic acid in norepinephrine biosynthesis in vivo has not been defined." ―Levine

"These observations suggest that while ascorbic acid is a co-factor for dopamine β-monooxygenase in chromaffin cells, the mechanism of ascorbic acid utilization in cells may be more complex than as a simple reducing agent for the enzyme." ―Levine

This article was written in 1985, and the authors gave allusions to follow-up experiments that would be performed in the future. Perhaps the hydroxylation of dopamine by vitamin C follows the same mechanism as ascorbate's other, more classic function: the hydroxylation of proline to form collagen?

"Since the ascorbic acid content in chromaffin cells can be varied, we demonstrate in this paper that ascorbate-loaded chromaffin cells have twice the rate of norepinephrine biosynthesis compared to unsupplemented cells. We also have determined that ascorbic acid increases norepinephrine biosynthesis by enhancing dopamine hydroxylation, as shown by measurements of norepinephrine synthesis from radiolabeled tyrosine or dopamine." ―Levine
Anything that forms both collagen and norepinephrine is something I'd be willing to ingest. Right now, I'm getting at least a pineapple's worth of vitamin C per day (with smaller—yet still considerable—amounts coming from leaves, coconuts, apples, and and dates.)
 
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yerrag

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Anything that forms both collagen and norepinephrine is something I'd be willing to ingest. Right now, I'm getting at least a pineapple's worth of vitamin C per day (with smaller—yet still considerable—amounts coming from leaves, coconuts, apples, and and dates.)

Thanks Travis. Have you thought about using synthetic ascorbic acid?

I think that Ray Peat may have given us the impression that current vitamin C production methods have left us with inferior vitamin C to those he had obtained in the past. Yet natural sources of vitamin C don't allow us to obtain enough vitamin C for megadosing, and there are sources that are non-GMO called Quali-C. They are more expensive than the China-made ones, but still reasonably priced. Vitamin C is really low-cost as a substance, as compared to many other supplements. I look back and wished I had used vitamin C on my late mom. I'm very sure she would have lived longer and in health. It's only now though that I have discovered how vital vitamin C is, and I blame my bias towards everything natural and this has led to me being closed to the idea of exploring vitamin C further, even as I've known about Linus Pauling. I was probably infuenced by the myth that using a lot of vitamin C would increase our tolerance for vitamin C, and with the inceased tolerance, we would become dependent on consuming it at large quantities. Nothing could be further from the truth. It turns out that the more healthy we are, the less tolerant we are of large quantities of vitamin C intake. A truly healthy person would tolerate up to 1000 mg of vitamin C per day, but a very unhealthy person would need upwards of 300 grams of it. The Vitamin C - Flush Test would be a good way to test our tolerance of vitamin C. The lower the tolerance, the healthier one is.:

https://www.boweltolerance.org/uploads/6/6/2/0/6620648/vitaminc_titrating_to_bowel_tolerance_2_.pdf




Your thyroid results do look good.

I assume you feel well, but just have this high BP. It is amazing to have it so high.
Yes, I feel very well, but could still be better. I look older than my age though, my front pate could have more bushy hair, and my erection lacks endurance. I guess these are indications that I'm not at 100%, but the body knows where its priorities are, and its priorities are my internals. Still, I used to have regular occurrences of allergic rhinitis, and I was sick with flu once or twice a year until at least 15 years ago. I used to get exhausted after 1 km. of running, now I can run 5 km. without breaking a sweat, although I haven't been running because I decided my left arthritic knee was telling me to stop.

My blood pressure is high still, but going down with the use of simple substances. After having tried for so long to make it lower at great cost with more elaborate schemes, I couldn't believe it could be done. I guess it will be for time to tell if I can continue to lower my blood pressure. It may just be that all my current issues are rolled into one cause, and if this cause is really identified and a cure is already working its work in my body, I will be able to see gradual improvement in a matter of six months (at least that is my timetable).
 

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With regards to high lead. Do you know if your water comes out of lead pipes ? In the UK we still have quite a lot of lead water pipes. I have just changed my water feed from the road into our house as it was old lead.
 
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With regards to high lead. Do you know if your water comes out of lead pipes ? In the UK we still have quite a lot of lead water pipes. I have just changed my water feed from the road into our house as it was old lead.
It's likely but I couldn't tell as I had lived in an old house but I have moved and been away for 15 years.
 
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An update: I'm still going with the daily vitamin C (6.75g of l-ascorbic acid) and with the daily intake of a mix of magnesium chloride, potassium chloride, and salt. All of these are dissolved in water. The vitamin C intake is spread out throughout the day, making sure it doesn't coincide with any meal or snacks, as glucose competes with ascorbic acid for absorption into the body. As for the electrolyte mix, I take it after breakfast and lunch, but have stopped taking it after dinner. The reason for not taking it after dinner is that the electrolyte intake causes me to pee a lot at night. So, for now, my intake of the electrolyte mix is reduced by a third, but I'll slowly increase intake so that I make up for the decreased intake. I just didn't want to suddenly increase the dosage as it may cause loose stools.

I had to do this because I find myself lacking in energy during the day. With less frequency of waking up to pee at night, I get better and more restful sleep, I allow my glycogen stores to be replenished, and I have more energy during the day with glycogen being available to fill in the gap between meals, especially the long time between lunch and dinner.

I'm glad that I can take l-ascorbic acid, also known as hydrogen ascorbate, as some people find the higher acidity of ascorbic acid irritates their stomach, and sodium ascorbate would be recommended for them to use. L-ascorbic acid is inexpensive. I could even find a local source in Manila, a USP grade that's China made, where it cost $20 for a kilo. There is concern that China-sourced vitamin C is more contaminated, but when I'm in a pinch and have no supply, I would still use this rather than avoid it. As @Janelle525 has mentioned before, I shouldn't be too worried about the lead content. Given the benefits that vitamin C, and its own ability to chelate lead, I've realized that I've been too focused on the possibility of contamination that I've allowed it to keep me from using vitamin C in the large dosage that is required for me to fully benefit from its use.

Just the same, I've ordered from a source Janelle recommended, at www.boweltolerance.org, and I've been able to get a better source of China-made vitamin C, and it's now on its way to me through my forwarder air shipping service, to the Philippines. In that same website, you can download Dr. Cathcart's article "Titrating ot Bowel Tolerance," which establishes a way to deterimine our daily vitamin C dosage level (as well as use it to determine our level of healthiness). There is also Dr. Irwin's Stone's book on Vitamin C entitled "The Healing Factor" as well. I found it to be very good reading, and I had the sense that my mom's life could have been saved had I come across this book sooner. The same feeling goes about the cats I've lost, not knowing how helpful and life-saving Vitamin C is. For not knowing better, I had believed in the fear of overdosing of Vitamin C, and I had also believed in the idea that synthetic Vitamin C isn't as good as Vitamin C found naturally. I also believed that it is enough that we get the amount of Vitamin C readily found in nature, and would find that taking 1,000mg a day is the most I would take. These biases have led me to be closed to the ideas that Linus Pauling and many researchers have shared from their experiments and research. I am even puzzled as to why there hasn't much more emphasis on the use of Vitamin C, even by Ray Peat, and on this forum.

I've also signed up to join the forum of the Vitamin C Foundation.

While I was taking my vitamin C, I noticed that the wound in my palm healed differently. I start to think of my keloids, and wonder if the use of Vitamin C would have helped keep my keloid scars from forming.

Anyway, I'm just happy that I've stumbled upon the use of Vitamin C to deal with my hypertension, and I hope that down the road I could put more entries into this blog and say that I've been of hypertension. Stay tuned!
 

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Hi :wave: I'm glad you are getting on well with the ascorbic acid. I am still taking it took 8 grams this morning to try to flush a bit. But usually take about 4-5. With some being lipo C lately. Testing if that works better or not.

Interesting stuff on C and norepinephrine. I'm very aware of what high adrenaline feels like, I have dealt with adrenaline rushes for yrs, but after I started using the C they calmed down a lot. Maybe the rush was actually because I wasn't producing enough and thus the big release at times due to postural orthostatic hypotension, I have no idea but I know my adrenals had suffered majorly after 2+ yrs of chronic stress..

Oh and about lead... I was exposed to it multiple times this past year cleaning up my old house. I don't think I could have made it out so well without the C.
 
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Oh and about lead... I was exposed to it multiple times this past year cleaning up my old house. I don't think I could have made it out so well without the C.
Yep, vitamin C is really that good to have on hand. I had a panoramic xray sent to my dentist and he quickly scheduled me to fix my cavity. After it was done, he showed me the enormity of my cavity and told me lesser (in health) people would have been writhing in pain from it. I didn't know the connection then, but it must have been my huge vitamin C intake that made the difference. If it can be an antidote for snake bites, for botulism, and for rabies, and hepatitis, how can I not want this with me? The fear of overdose by the medical establishment has done the masses a huge disfavor by making this fear a hindrance to their health, and no less their survival.
 
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I came back from Bangkok after 1 5 day trip there with friends. I had skipped my daily protocol of 7 g Vitamin C and 4.8g Magnesium Chloride, replacing it with 1,000mg of Emergen-C daily. I came back with a drastic drop in blood pressure and a large increase in my heart rate. From 190/120 to 155/106, and heart rate from 62 to 85. I'm certain that a Bangkok holiday isn't the cure, so I'm attributing this to a few things:

1) 3 days before my trip, I changed my daily intake of magnesium chloride 4.8g/potassium chloride 4.0g/sodium chloride 6.0g to just magnesium chloride 4.8g (with potassium to be met by taking more juice, and salt simply from food). I had felt that the sodium chloride was causing me to urinate a lot, causing me to lose sleep, and causing me to lose thiamine. I felt some muscle weakening and felt like I was straining a bit with my step, and I was reminded of my recent experience with taking too much garlic, and made the change.

2) I urinated less- I was losing less potassium and thiamine

3) I slept more - I was getting my liver to replenish my glycogen store during sleep. I noticed my blood pressure would always improve after a meal, and worsen the longer I was from a meal. I think this is a glycogen depletion problem.

I hope my blood pressure continues to improve. This time last year, my blood pressure was at 215/135. It stayed that way till November, with me primarily on EcoNugenics' PectaClear for lead detox. I had by then honed in on magnesium and vitamin C, although I was still doing it the wrong way, but experimentation was necessary and making wrong turns was just a prerequisite to making it right.

I thought I had settled on the right protocol with the MgCl2/KCl/NaCl mix with Vitamin C, but paying attention to my senses, I realized I needed to simply change the protocol to MgCl2 and Vitamin C, with potassium being met by increasing fruit juice intake and salt simply being eating the usual salty meals I've been having.

I started on this new protocol 3 days before my Bangkok trip. It's only been a week, and I'm surprised to see my blood pressure go down so much and my heart rate jump up. I think both vitamin C and magnesium are instrumental, probably working synergistically to chelate lead from my kidney. The vitamin C is also doing the job on being an antioxidant on the free radicals being produced by lead, and lessening the burden on the body's need to produce uric acid as an antioxidant. That burden required higher blood pressure, as a state of hypoxia is needed to produce uric acid, and this required blood vessel constriction. As to the higher pulse rate, it could come from the increased magnesium stores, or it could come from the higher oxygenation arising from a less constricted blood vessel.
 

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Thank you for your log, yerrag, I've learned a lot. Even the minor details have been very helpful. Wish you all the best, please continue to keep us posted.

I am in a severe hypoxic condition, I hope to start a thread here shortly. I'm trying to read as much as I can before I start my thread.

You opened your thread with "essential hypertension and appreciating it for what it really is". I feel the same way with pain. I "appreciate it" for what it is and what it is saying to me. IMO, pain should never be fully relieved without 1st knowing what is causing it and resolving or having a plan to resolve what is causing it. Pain, imo, is an indicator something is wrong .. a warning signal .. take heed. Thanks again.
 
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Sheila

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Dear Yerrag,

Thank you for taking the time to detail your experiences, you have certainly been through a lot of experimentation and it is great to see you achieve both understanding and success.

You may know all of what I am going to write and found it wanting in your own personal experience, but these are some thoughts based on my experiences with other people.

Forgive me if I have missed something, but I am not entirely sure why you believe you had a lead problem as there is usually no escaping the dulling of brain function that goes with this poisoning - and your writing style is not that of a dullard. It is my experience that lead impacts wherever calcium can be found and that chelation is not that specific and requires much more calcium than might normally be deemed necessary as a replacement, otherwise other minerals of the 2+ squad get depleted also. My experiences with calcium supplementation suggest that inorganic forms can be gut irritating and where that is the case, it should be avoided. Any irritation of the gut mucosa increases the chances of further gut-to-blood barrier and I rather suspect now, any organ-to-blood barrier leakiness. I am beginning to think that adequate sulphur plays a part here in accepting and processing dairy-based calcium, but that for another time and place, when I have much more data.

Further, my experiences with people with end-stage renal disease (not you) suggests that elevated blood pressure can be independent of their kidney disease, as some, on dialysis, have BP of 120/80 and only higher when under particular other strains (infections, work pressure, inappropriate medications) or if dialysis is delayed. This may just be a function of the ones I have studied and it is not unusual for these sorts to develop sub-clinical Grave's (auto-immune hyperthyroidism) which can present with within range TSH, T4, T3 etc but high levels of auto-antibodies - and that WILL elevate their blood pressure. I have seen improvement with a gut focused, rather than thyroid per se focused, plan, so I concur with Dr Peat when he says that 'thyroid auto-antibodies' aren't thyroid specific even as our understanding of what they truly represent is probably also wanting...ie. not self attack, more like the 'interrupted clean up crew'. My point is then that sometimes, unexplained high BP has a unobvious, thyroiditis aetiology, or as part of the problem. Not thinking this is particularly relevant here per se, but see later.

Now why am I boring you with this? Oh wait, there's more first!

In all the presentations of Cushings that I have been aware of, bowel toxicity seems to play a part. High blood sugar and blood pressure usually go hand in hand here as does a high degree of endotoxin recirculation. I have been wondering why the presentation in dogs has spiked markedly in the last few decades - given that they don't stress much (given reasonable conditions) and I rather suspect that it's the now common but much higher grain diets (commercial dog din) that may provide one element since endotoxin begets cortisol. If then there are higher cortisol levels in your picture, the additional potassium via KCl and lots of fruit (I also have Weber's book) would certainly be beneficial, at the very least for shovelling recalcitrant blood sugar into cells. Maybe that, in the appropriate context, is also how K+ reduces blood pressure in some. I have also used KCl via a rather older modality at 65mg 1-3x daily with food, and in that regard it works physiologically if not obviously biochemically as a kind of blood thinner/anti-inflam. When that happens, particularly if blood is over-glucose rich, and it is 'thicker than it should be' implying inflammation, then circulation definitely gets impaired. I have given it, over time, in this manner for keloid scaring (which was a sign for this old remedy - where there are any 'over-growths' present) with good results presuming there are sufficient calories - nothing works without sufficient fuel. Keloid formation is therefore a signature of lowered metabolism - at the time of injury and repair, not necessarily forever. As metabolism rises, it is not unusual for scars to re-heal properly. (Although it is unusual one might say for metabolism to rise in this culture, but when it can, such remediation is undertaken naturally by the body. All a function of available energy. I note you referred to this in your use of Vit C, but KCl was also in this loop too I think.)

Although I read that dear Janelle was perhaps unimpressed with Dr Peat's suggestion that high vitamin C worked as a laxative, my work with it over the years suggests this action is more than feasible as one mechanism by which it can be helpful. There may well be others.

The kidneys seem very, very susceptible to bacterial load. Koch talks about it and that septic foci in the tonsils was his favourite source of system-wide poisoning over time, IIRC. If repeated vitamin C reduces this load, I could easily see (and have seen experientially) how kidney function can be improved. In repeated, powerful doses, it is capable of clearing out very nasty bowel pockets (including latent diverticuli) and resurrecting latent pockets of infection - hopefully for clearance - especially at teeth. Drip, drip, drip from latent septic foci in the teeth (or from the tonsils) - often without obvious pain - is a great way to annoy both thyroid (cf. Grave's) and stomach function over time. I have certainly seen a link in older people between kidney disease and early tonsil issues (fwiw), that was, once I knew to look for any connection. Joining the dots, as we have discussed, takes so much time.

And whilst I remember, if you went to the dentist whilst under the influence of high vitamin C load, pain should have been much less; if I knew the mechanism I have forgotten it, sorry. I did read what Mr Travis wrote also. But some of my patients have Vit C via IV for such occasions and experience almost no pain, and limited bruising even during extractions. I have a feeling that Vit C and charcoal are a powerful combination in rotation for removal and resolution of septic foci (it is not unusual for a fever to turn up here either as the desired end point: burn up) but it's an idea that requires your level of observation since charcoal binding up toxins and recirculating them is not ideal, especially with kidney issues, and repeated irritation from vitamin C can also cause problems. There is also quite a difference between oral vitamin C used to bowel tolerance (usually considered as an anti-oxidant approach) than via IV at 50-100g whereupon its pro-oxidant effect takes priority I think. As always, dosing depends on what you want to do. And with any high dose, repeated use Vit C, I am sure you are aware that copper will ultimately become the rate determining step as copper is required for the metabolism of vitamin C.

So, FWIW, there are some of my thoughts on kidney issues. I am certain recently that I read Dr Peat say something similar - in that they were generally caused initially by bowel issues - in a podcast. If I find it, I will post it. Again FWIW, it's just that I had begun to form the same conclusion with my cohort and thus what he said had greater relevance to me.

If you have any references for higher dose garlic reducing thiamine, potassium and mag, I would be grateful. I have seen high dose garlic cause quite a bit of atrial fibrillation in patients and any process that pushes that instability gives me pause for thought. I believe you used it as a chelator (?), whereas I have used it as a short term 'kill shot' as, over time, it's quite capable of inducing anaemia which, with the anaemia of chronic disease (not you), you definitely don't want. Some of the other pro-oxidants are in this category, like Artemisinin, they are essentially 'kind' chemotherapy if that makes sense.

My final comment is that many people whom I initially encouraged to have gelatine before bed found that it acted as a diuretic. I am not sure there if it was a histamine response or the protein in the wrong place or...but no matter how I 'diced and sliced' this combination, it might help them get to sleep but it woke them for a pee also. Just an observation which may or may not be of use to you.

Thank you for letting me learn from your trials and tribulations, I admire your patience and fortitude and am delighted you are making such progress.
Best regards
Sheila
 

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