Intelligent People More Likely To Suffer From Mental Illness

Peatful

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People full of knowledge. More sadness.

People full of wisdom. More peace.
 
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lollipop

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LoLoL...
 

charlie

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Tarmander

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Travis MVP of the thread here.

Nietzsche, probably one of the most intelligent men ever, often talked about music and its ability to bring a light to the intelligent darkness he suffered from.
 

lampofred

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The definition of intelligence is debatable. Most people consider intelligence only in the "logical" sense, but it's well established that emotional intelligence (number of friends) is highly correlated with brain size and also happiness. Also real wisdom (detachment, calmness) as has been mentioned leads to happiness. "Logical" intelligence which is the only form of intelligence most people consider is probably very serotonergic which is why it's associated with mental illness.
 

Constatine

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The definition of intelligence is debatable. Most people consider intelligence only in the "logical" sense, but it's well established that emotional intelligence (number of friends) is highly correlated with brain size and also happiness. Also real wisdom (detachment, calmness) as has been mentioned leads to happiness. "Logical" intelligence which is the only form of intelligence most people consider is probably very serotonergic which is why it's associated with mental illness.
True. I think that way of thinking is more "Rationalism" and a culture than anything else. Ray Peat's definition of Rationalism reflects that of a high serotonin state for sure. But it is ironically a logically flawed way of thinking that is taught to the young people of Western culture in schools and reinforced in the media-social interactions. In such a culture if you hold very specific ideas you are automatically considered more intelligent than those who have other ideas. Also a scientist can have a far less functional brain than an athlete but the scientist will always be considered more intelligent within the culture.
 

CLASH

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I think a purpose or a passion, a community and experiences with the ones you love are the key to happiness in life (and health). I think it becomes more difficult to find a community of people when your more intelligent. Relating to others on the deeper levels that you crave becomes harder and harder the deeper you go due to less people developing in those areas. In turn you become pushed into focusing more and more into your purpose and passion but wind up alone and jaded to an extent by the lack of companionship. Also, i think with an increase in CNS function and sensitivity, the body becomes more attune to stimuli and has a stronger reaction as opposed to blunted reactions. Thus, the peaks and troughs become stronger and the linearity of response decreases. I think the general population is suffering from a linear blunted existence. There is little feeling on either side of the duality and a general sense of complacency with underlying slight unhappiness that can be drown away with distractions. The modern industrial machine has also made life more complex with insurance, car payments, bills, debt, wages, taxes etc that I think are much more stressful mentally than physically. I think mental stress can be just as draining as physical as the brain is highly metabolically active. When I convert my thoughts into words for this forum I expend a generous amount of energy that leads to adrenaline and cortisol responses if I dont limit myself. The issue is its addicting to communicate with people here because its a community that I wish I had in real life. The people around me with few exceptions have accepted status quo because they arent aware of anything else. Trying to make them aware is stressful for them because it challenges their world view and they become defensive or aggressive.

TL;DR- we need to take over new zealand (they have alot of dairy animals and shellfish with a small population) and create a community (I have seriously thought about this many times, I cant sleep at night sometimes thinking about utopia hahahah)
 
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Travis

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Thyroid hormone increases microtubule assembly. These structures are the nerves inside of nerves—the non-reducible structure of nervous activity. A nerve can be seen as a bundle of microtubules protected by an inert myelin sheath, but some microtubules remaining unprotected. This things are constantly in-flux—being assembled and dis-assembled at a high rate. Long tubes are routinely-formed in vitro with the addition of GTP and magnesium. Neurotransmitter glutamate can accelerate this process.

microtubule4.png

  • Francon, Jacques, et al. "Is thyroxine a regulatory signal for neurotubule assembly during brain development?." Nature266.5598 (1977): 188-190.
It has been known as early as 1975 that rats made to become hypothyroid synthesized microtubules at a slower rate: Brain extracts were made, tubulin extracted, and microtubules assembled in the presence of GTP. It was found that extracts from hypothyroid rats polymerized these structures at a slower rate:
At 15 day after birth the rats were clearly hypothyroid—the body weight was 28.8g. ―Francon

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The amount of tubulin—the protein monomer—was identical. The hypothyroid rats had the same amount of building blocks for these tubes. The only difference the authors had mentioned was the rat's lack of thyroid hormone. Improvement was noted by feeding the rats thyroid hormone:

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They added the tau (τ) protein* to each fraction and both groups of rats showed an increased synthesis rate, but the hypothyroid rats still lagged behind. It's tempting to think that thyroid hormone itself is necessary to grow these structures by physically-interacting at the interface—the growth end. Inside of the microtubules themselves is a regular array of tyrosine residues, and thyroxine has a similar ring structure (but iodinated). The removal of tyrosine from the end of the microtubule is known to prevent elongation, and this form is somewhat confusingly referred to as Glu microtubules—which simply refers to the glutamate side-chain which becomes the new characteristic end structure.
These results suggest that microtubule formation during development requires the presence of thyroid hormones. ―Francon
The most powerful natural molecule which destroys these structures is 2-methoxyestrogen. This is about 20 times more powerful than simple estrogen and ~40% as powerful as colchicine. The formation of 2-methoxyestrogen can be stopped by taking gallocatechin gallate—a polyphenol found in green tea—which inhibits the enzyme catachol-O-methyltransferase; this does not effect methylation anywhere else, except the methylation of 2-hydroxyestradiol and dopamine (and perhaps other catechols). The methylation of catechols is generally seen as a detoxification mechanism, but we also have sulfation and glucuronidation pathways which account for the majority of steroid elimination. It's not even clear how methylation can be considered a detoxification mechanism since it actually lowers solubility and increases affinity for lipids.
...the results of this work may contribute to the understanding of the effects of thyroid hormones in brain development and in the ætiology of cretinism. ―Francon
I used to think that promoting green tea extracts was woo, but the in vitro science is rock solid—something that could account for the epidemiological findings which likely created the buzz in the first place. As far as I can tell, nobody has made the connection between gallocatechin gallate, 2-hydroxyestradiol methylation, and microtubule formation—although each half of the three-membered pathway has been well-established. The article that I found on green tea and memory directly implicated gallocatechin gallate, but the word "microtubule" appeared not once in the entire document.

Cochicine is the classic microtubule disruptor, and is also a drug used to treat gout. The side-effects include such things as:
burning, "crawling", or tingling feeling in the skin
  1. difficulty with breathing when exercising
  2. headache
  3. muscle weakness
  4. numbness in the fingers or toes (usually mild)
  5. pain
  6. unusual tiredness or weaknesshttps://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/colchicine...
Colchicine actually depolymerizes microtubules, and you could probably even get away with using the word "dissolve" to describe this process since it happens so quickly. It also has four methoxy groups. All powerful microtubule-dissolving drugs have methoxy groups (nocodazole and podophyllotoxin to name a few) attached to a planar ring. One theoretical chemist has speculated that the methoxylated ring of 2-methoxyestradiol intercolates inside of the microtubule and interposes itself between the stacked planar Try-indole and Tyr-phenol rings. Exactly how this impacts microtubule stabilization is open to speculation, but you would expect this to interfere with electron/light transmission.

*The tau (τ) protein stabilizes microtubules, along with the microtubule-associated protein (who would have thought with a name like that, right?). The τ-protein is the structure most found disordered in Alzheimer's Disease, save for the larger neurofilbrillary tangles. The τ-protein is smaller and inside of tangles, which are thought to be crosslinked directly by Al³⁺ through the phosphate groups. This is one of the Al³⁺ brain mechanisms behind lipid peroxidation, which can be initiated by many things. It should be easy to form a long list of memory-enhancing vs neuro-damaging molecules, with thyroid hormone and gallocatechin gallate new additions to the memory-enhancing side.

†Some drugs, like taxol, actually freeze microtubules preventing cell division. The microtubules must break-down at each cell division, highlighting the speed of microtubule formation and disassembly.
 

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yerrag

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I feel better now.
 

trying

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From the Bible:
"And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after the wind. Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain."
-Ecclesiastes 1:17-18 (NASB)
 

Peatful

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From the Bible:
"And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after the wind. Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain."
-Ecclesiastes 1:17-18 (NASB)
Good...
 

Drareg

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I had read that article. Thinking about this always makes me think of this Nirvana song.

I think you can be happy and creative-intelligent simultaneously, but not happy and intelligent like Sigmund Freud or Isaac Newton. There's a certain amount of seriousness, or gravity involved in thinking about along those lines. Perhaps that definition should be refined as mental discipline, or some such thing. I think the IQ test has a few math components, which are weighed heavily. Perhaps the main finding of such studies is that the people who designed the IQ tests themselves were generally unhappy and engineered the test accordingly: people who had climbed to the top of the authoritarian ψ–educational field and expect all future students to be similarly disciplined. There is an element of seriousness behind all of that, making sure—or atleast maintaining the impression—that students must not make mistakes. Without the element of importance, most of the kids would just play and mock the teacher.

But perhaps it can be largely-reduced to opiates and neurotransmitters? Cholinergic drugs always increase word recall and reaction time, while opiates generally interfere; Dopamine is usually seen as good, while serotonin not so much. Glutamate accelerates microtubule formation—the structures that probably are short-term memory. The longer-term, more ingrained nerves get myelinated microtubules. These things are getting built-up and broken-down all of the time, and many drugs interfere or accelerate this process. So choosing the right diet, environment, and habits are probably the smartest thing you can do—everything else could just follow from that. The only genetic defect that I've read about which interferes with IQ is Down's Syndrome, and this is actually from an enzyme polymorphism which leads to high homocysteine. This is also one of the most common findings in Alzheimer's. So . ..simply having a high-methionine and low B₆ diet could perhaps give anyone either subclinical Alzheimer's or subclinical Down's Syndrome—depending on severity. Of course, it would technically be called hyperhomocysteinuria; but the main agent is the same in both cases. The epidemiological results are so consistent that many cases of dementia (but not maybe not Alzheimer's)* could be renamed as age-related hyperhomocysteinuria, but this name implies obvious an inexpensive treatment modalities so it will never be formally-classified as such. In the same way, Down's Syndrome could just as easily be called cystathionine β-synthase-related homocysteinuria. Again, this implies an easy treatment and nobody in the Medical Establish can sell you the things you can do at home or buy from Amazon.com.

*Alzheimer's was originally defined histologically. Many cases of so-called "Alzheimer's" are really just Alzheimer's Presumed. The disease's founder, Alois Alzheimer, had diagnosed it based-on characteristic neurofibrillary tangles. Injecting rabbits with aluminum does the very same thing, and seems be the only way to create these in a short time period. Theoretically, lipid peroxidation in general could form similar tangles; homocysteine does this because it can form a stable free radical, but aluminum does this as well by displacing iron in addition to physically-crosslinking the highly-phosphorylated and microtubule-stabilizing τ-protein.

The engineering of the test is the part most people are oblivious to,for example Peat spoke about the redundancy of deducing normal levels of hormones or other subtansces in the body from a predominately sick society,the standardization of IQ tests are done within societies with track records of mass pathologies,this is hilarious.
Has anyone ever noticed how we have little promotion around how IQ tests are put together,I have always found it curious that someone putting an IQ test together is less "intelligent" than the test taker in many cases.
Said societies have also created the modern world with so called high intelligent at the top,to put this better those in academia creating paradigms for megalomaniac politicians to use as soundbytes to influence those below,its the blame game throughout humanity when a society goes through changes to blame those below when in fact it was those at the top who created the society,so smart yet couldn’t manage the infidels at the bottom.

Folks with Down syndrome vary widely on IQ tests,thing is which is ignored on these tests is the meaning to the individual doing it,some humans with disabilities will not grasp the meaning at all so it implies they are attempting to teach the test or coercing those with learning issues,this is fraudulent,depraved and more "fake science",how do you give an IQ test for an Alzheimer’s patient for example and take yourself serious after it.
They have ignored this but as meaning and information theory become part of the paradigm for understand genetic expression in the next few years it will be hard to ignore,also at this point language will have to be respected more as the complex symbol it is,many high IQ types don’t even speak a second language,as Peat pointed out the slum dog isn’t respected for speaking a second language by the one language intellectual.

For me IQ is possibly more accurate at testing potential psychopathology or mental rigidity within a society,I always find it amusing that people will speak about the crime rate or better still the murder rate of African Americans(while ignoring the history)being higher than white america yet the American army is predominantly white and has been involved in how many murders...... apply this logic to high IQ nations and look at their history and human rights record ,better still look at the academics and intellectuals who created the paradigms and belief systems in general,let’s now norm and engineer an IQ test from said deranged populace.
 

Prosper

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Peat pointed out the slum dog isn’t respected for speaking a second language by the one language intellectual.
Nor should he. Your linguistic competence is only as high as the complexity of the most difficult language you can communicate in. Being able to speak somali, ebonics or other loose garbage-tier language adds roughly 0% intellectual bragging value to the assets of anyone who can also speak English, Spanish or any other comprehensive language. Me being able to learn basic English is no feat, but rather an inevitability, due to my native language being dozens of times more complex than yours. Do you think I had to deliberately STUDY english? HA!

For me IQ is possibly more accurate at testing potential psychopathology or mental rigidity within a society.

More accurate than what? IQ test excels precisely at what it sets out to measure: pattern recognition. When other cognitive aspects remain identical, the one with superior pattern recognition capability is superior in ALL aspects of life compared to the one with inferior capability.


I have always found it curious that someone putting an IQ test together is less "intelligent" than the test taker in many cases.
Do you think Bobby Fischer being better at chess than the ones who originally engineered the game somehow invalidates the point of the game? Do you have to be the tallest man in the world in order to determine the second tallest one? In order to measure anything, the only point that matters is how individuals perform in relation to others within the system, not how they perform in relation to the creator of the system. That is irrelevant.

Folks with Down syndrome vary widely on IQ tests --- how do you give an IQ test for an Alzheimer’s patient for example and take yourself serious after it.

A better question is: what would drive you attempt to measure the cognitive capability of someone who you know to be cognitively deficient? What is there to gain? Just tick the retard box, put them on welfare and forget about it!

I always find it amusing that people will speak about the crime rate or better still the murder rate of African Americans(while ignoring the history)being higher than white america yet the American army is predominantly white and has been involved in how many murders......

Yes, this IS amusing. But not for the reasons you think. This is an unfortunately deranged equivalence. If you are not ashamed, I urge you to be.


Your general sentiment is right: IQ hardly matters. Don't feel bad about your perceived lack in IQ. That's not nice. Cultivate drive instead of excuses and you will easily over-perform any ****88 up sub-genius.
 
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Dhair

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Nor should he. Your linguistic competence is only as high as the complexity of the most difficult language you can communicate in. Being able to speak somali, ebonics or other loose garbage-tier language adds roughly 0% intellectual bragging value to the assets of anyone who can also speak English, Spanish or any other comprehensive language. Me being able to learn basic English is no feat, but rather an inevitability, due to my native language being dozens of times more complex than yours. Do you think I had to deliberately STUDY english? HA!



More accurate than what? IQ test excels precisely at what it sets out to measure: pattern recognition. When other cognitive aspects remain identical, the one with superior pattern recognition capability is superior in ALL aspects of life compared to the one with inferior capability.



Do you think Bobby Fischer being better at chess than the ones who originally engineered the game somehow invalidates the point of the game? Do you have to be the tallest man in the world in order to determine the second tallest one? In order to measure anything, the only point that matters is how individuals perform in relation to others within the system, not how they perform in relation to the creator of the system. That is irrelevant.



A better question is: what would drive you attempt to measure the cognitive capability of someone who you know to be cognitively deficient? What is there to gain? Just tick the retard box, put them on welfare and forget about it!



Yes, this IS amusing. But not for the reasons you think. This is an unfortunately deranged equivalence. If you are not ashamed, I urge you to be.


Your general sentiment is right: IQ hardly matters. Yet, there's no need to go to such lengths in order to apologize for your perceived lack in IQ score. Cultivate drive instead of excuses and you will easily over-perform any ****88 up sub-genius.
The kind of IQ test that a psychologist will typically give a patient (a REAL IQ test) has subcategories that have little to do with pattern recognition. I think Ray Peat has pointed out these subcategories as flaws in the test if I remember correctly.
 

lampofred

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^ This Prosper guy seems to be the epitome of the "fake-tough" authoritarians that Peat despises and considers to be of sub-normal intelligence. Why is he on RPF? Lol.
 

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