New Log Here: Trying To Get Ripped With Peat/Haidut

[Lucenzo01]

Hi Peatarians I'm starting this log so I can have write my experiments and show them to you.

I decided to start it now because I found something that it's really working: megadoses of the four fat-solubles and C, aminoacids (taurine, glycine and lysine), caffeine and sometimes riboflavin.

Holy ***t guys. This stuff is MAGIC. I have been doing this thing for a while (adding and quitting things through feeling). I have grown two cms in the last 6 months (I'm 27 btw). My penis is at least 2 cm longer and way wider. Erections are full and lasting. My beard is (very) slowly filling in. Eyes looking much healthier and I'm putting in muscle doing nothing. I had a co-worker asking me yesterday if I'm going to the gym LOL. I do ZERO excercise. I will do it when my body ask for it. My arms are fuller overall and my hands are bigger (confirmed by my gf so it's true, women are obsessed with hands). The change has been going on really slowly until I increased my vitamin A palmitate to 300.000 IU's/day. I have taken Accutane in the past so my higher needs may be explained by it.

So here is it. I'm planning to add riboflavin more consistently so that is gonna be my next experiment.

 

[Makrosky]

The change has been going on really slowly until I increased my vitamin A palmitate to 300.000 IU's/day. I have taken Accutane in the past so my higher needs may be explained by it.

Lucenzo, could you explain a bit more about this please? I also had roaccutane on my teen years.

 

[Makrosky]

What are your doses for the 3 aminos?

Aren't you worried about hypervitaminosis A? Also a lot of A will supress thyroid.

 

[Lucenzo01]

Lucenzo, could you explain a bit more about this please? I also had roaccutane on my teen years.

Accutane is fake vitamin A and it cures acne. So it's clear that acne is caused by a vitamin A deficiency. There are a lot of reports on the acne forum of people getting cured of acne megadosing the fat-solubles, specially vitamin A. So we took Accutane, we cured acne but we still have the vitamin A deficiency. That's my reasoning. I could be wrong but the results are not so I'm good with it.

 

[Wagner83]

Thanks for sharing.

I thought you did try much different protocols before that one. I remember 11-keto-dht with high doses of b vitamins, then aspirin-caffeine-niacinamide, and now the fat solubles in very high doses. So how long have you been doing the vitamin A mega dose?
What are the doses you use for fat soluble vitamins besides A? Glycine and taurine should be a pretty potent combination for digestion and mood.
I thought you were taking half for that vitamin A btw : Vitamin A Overdose / Excessive Vitamin A

 

[Lucenzo01]

What are your doses for the 3 aminos?

Aren't you worried about hypervitaminosis A? Also a lot of A will supress thyroid.

1 gram of each one two times a day with food. Not worried at all, riboflavin, taurine and the equilibrium with the other fat-solubles should protect from it.

 

[Lucenzo01]

Thanks for sharing.

I thought you did try much different protocols before that one. I remember 11-keto-dht with high doses of b vitamins, then aspirin-caffeine-niacinamide, and now the fat solubles in very high doses. So how long have you been doing the vitamin A mega dose?
What are the doses you use for fat soluble vitamins besides A? Glycine and taurine should be a pretty potent combination for digestion and mood.
I thought you were taking half for that vitamin A btw : Vitamin A Overdose / Excessive Vitamin A

Yeah, I run out of DHT so I couldn't keep with the experiment. Aspirin in the long run doesn't work for me. I have kept the fat-solubles all this time but now I'm doing them in higher doses. Same with A, and I think that the increase in the dosage is what made the difference this time. I have increased the rest of the fat-solubles too but not in the same order of magnitude.

 

[Wagner83]

Yeah, I run out of DHT so I couldn't keep with the experiment. Aspirin in the long run doesn't work for me. I have kept the fat-solubles all this time but now I'm doing them in higher doses. Same with A, and I think that the increase in the dosage is what made the difference this time. I have increased the rest of the fat-solubles too but not in the same order of magnitude.

Ok, so you've been doing amino acids, caffeine and fat solubles for 6 months or so but have only recently increased the fat soluble vitamins is that right? In any case it sounds like either the fat solubles and amino acids gave you plenty of benefits (even at smaller doses) for months, or the previous experiments you did as well as the current one have all had good pretty long lasting effects. How long have you been doing the high dose vitamin A? As I know said felt like a king for two weeks on vitamin A and then nothing, Travis posted pretty extensive information on how vitamin A is connected with osteoporosis, and @Mufasa has been straighter/straight for months now thanks to the big doses of fat soluble vitamins, an other guy I can't remember the name of had used huge doses for the best of twenty years with benefits.

 

[ilikecats]

id watch that vitamin A dosage.... I'm seeing a lot of people on this forum take insane amounts of vitamin A. It uses the same transport protein in the blood as thyroid hormone so it can act like a thyroid hormone antagonist. No bueno especially in peat land... especially if you're trying to get "ripped". Ray said that only 5,000 iu should be taken by hypothyroid people. I had to learn this lesson the hard way... After experiencing freezing cold extremities in the middle of summer despite following peat protocols to the extreme for over a year. And acne isn't caused by a lack of vitamin a (except maybe in cases of extreme deficiency) its caused by hypothyroidism.

 

[ilikecats]

Lots of people on this forum should hear this

 

[Lucenzo01]

So guys after reading the vast amount of studies about niacinamide I decided to add it to my "each meal stack", 1 gram per meal. So for every meal I take 1 gram of glycine, taurine, and lysine, 2 grams of vitamin C, 200 mg of caffeine and 1 gram of niacinamide. Holy ***t guys LIBIDO THROUGH THE ROOF. What it's even more interesting is that I don't want to smoke that much. I have smoked 5 cigarettes today that is a personal record in years. Cheers Peatarians.

 

[sladerunner69]

So guys after reading the vast amount of studies about niacinamide I decided to add it to my "each meal stack", 1 gram per meal. So for every meal I take 1 gram of glycine, taurine, and lysine, 2 grams of vitamin C, 200 mg of caffeine and 1 gram of niacinamide. Holy ***t guys LIBIDO THROUGH THE ROOF. What it's even more interesting is that I don't want to smoke that much. I have smoked 5 cigarettes today that is a personal record in years. Cheers Peatarians.

If you are approaching this strictly from a "getting shredded" position, then I would drop the niacinimide. It definitely seems to slow fatloss in everyone using it for that purpose. However, b3 has many great benefits from the free fatty acid suppressiion, so I wouldn't cross it off your list if you mature into a metabolic health frame of mind.

 

[Lucenzo01]

If you are approaching this strictly from a "getting shredded" position, then I would drop the niacinimide. It definitely seems to slow fatloss in everyone using it for that purpose. However, b3 has many great benefits from the free fatty acid suppressiion, so I wouldn't cross it off your list if you mature into a metabolic health frame of mind.

I think both go highly related. Paraphrasing Haidut, a healthy metabolism storage energy as muscle mass.

 

[sladerunner69]

I think both go highly related. Paraphrasing Haidut, a healthy metabolism storage energy as muscle mass.

Niacinimide and aspirin both prevent the release or FFA into the blood stream theoretically this would help boost the metabolism and lower stress hormones. In reality, it tend to limit and prvent fat loss as has been seen by many on the forum... even Haidut himself says that b3 will slow fat loss down to a much reduced rate.

 

[Lucenzo01]

A post from other forum regarding acne and megadosing of the fat-solubles:

There was some hoopla a few months ago when I made a thread entitled "vitamn d for acne" or something like that. I posted a small blog written in 1937 on how high doses of vitamin D over a period of months improved or cured acne.



I've taken vitamin A since April 1st 2008 and vitamin D April 27th 2008. I've taken both before in the form of cod liver oil (providing about 14000 IU of vit A and 1400 IU of vit D per tablespoon or 14g) but it never really cured my acne...just kept it at bay.



My acne was mostly large pores and oily skin. Pimples were not large in numbers.



It's been almost 5 months since I took large doses of vitamin A and 4 months since I took large doses of vitamin D. I really didn't see real results until maybe 3.5 to 4 months into the regimen. How much did I take? I started off on 100,000 IU of vitamin A/day and worked my way up to 700,000 IU/day then settled back down to 200,000 IU/day. But I never took less than 100,000 IU. I don't think the large doses speed up the process (just because you give someone more money, doesn't mean they work faster either, there's a limit as to how fast someone or something goes) but it does allow the body (namely the liver) to store more of it. On vitamin D I took 4000 IU for every 100,000 IU of vitamin A that I took then bumped it up to around 60,000 IU/day (I increased my D dosage each time my A dosage went up). I took vitamin K2 (up to 25mg/day...which is A LOT) as well during the time, but not sure what effect that had to do with it.



I've seen people on Accutane but never seem to get rid of large pores and blackheads and they still have oily skin. But there are some people who've taken Accutane and have all those problems disappear.



Just to let you guys know, I've never taken Accutane...so my results aren't bias (whatever you want to call bias). Some people questioned my sanity on taking such massive amounts of vitamins, but are they really massive or just massive in comparison to the paltry limits set by the FDA (or USDA or whatever)? Your body can produce 10's of thousands of IUs of vitamin D in a matter of minutes (about 10 to 40, depending on your skin tone), yet no one has ever died from the "massive" vitamin D produced from your skin. Yet it seems massive because the RDA is 400 IU, so something like 20,000 IU is "massive"...even though your body was meant to create this much. There have been cultures and even people today who consumed massive amounts of vitamin A with no ill effects. 5000 IU, the RDA, is barely what your body uses in a day anyways...and most people consume far less of this. I'm talking about retinol, pure natural vitamin A. Nothing synthetic (no palmitate or acetate) and nothing pro-vitamin A (no carotenes). Vitamin D must be consumed as D3 and nothing else. Even people with liver disfunction has the ability to hydroxylate cholecalciferol...it's one of the first and last functions of the liver even when it is damaged.



As far as symptoms goes, chelitis (chap lips) is the only symptom that I've had. And remember I took 730,000 IU of vitamin A along with 63,000 IU of vitamin D at the same time with 25mg of vitamin K2.



You generally can use any brand of vitamin A and D, just make sure they are in the form of retinol (usually fish liver) and cholecalciferol (D3). I use Carlson's only because their softgels are very small and very easy to swallow (I took 20 of the vitamin D3 softgels and 12 of the vitamin A softgels all in one swallow...it is THAT easy) and because they are SOY FREE. I'm allergic to soy anyways. Even though the oil used is not what I recommend (safflower and sunflower), the amount of the oil used is so little and the benefits of vitamin A and D3 are so monumental that it far outweighs the oils being used in the supplements.



Of course I also take a lot of minerals in the form of dairy and meat (I take a separate magnesium supplement). I don't believe that vitamins alone can do the trick, but if they can they don't do the trick well. Just make sure to get enough of the three main minerals: calcium, magnesium, and phosphorus. Milk contains plenty of phosphorus (heck, most foods do) and calcium. You can get magnesium from whole grains and vegetables but you have to deal with phytates and oxalates that hampers absorption.



There's much more than Vitamin D and A does than just promote skin health...but I always believed that there have never been a serious use for any drug, prescription or OTC, and that acne is really a result of our environment. Lack of sun during peak UVB hours, bad food choices like hydrogenated oils and MSG, and just exposure to excessive lead and dioxins.



So what's my advice on how to start off? 100,000 IU/day of vitamin A and 10,000 IU of vitamin D/day for 5 months should pretty much get rid of your acne or calm it down at least 80%. Taking more won't speed up the process though. But it does allow your body to store more for later. A maintenence dose after that would probably be like 30,000 to 50,000 IU vitamin A and 4000 to 7000 IU vitamin D.



My pores have shrunk, my skin is FAR LESS oily, and I have FAR FEWER blackheads. My eczema has really calmed down too and so has my psoriasis. It sounds far-fetched and it sounds like I'm BSing but I've been to these forums for almost 3 years now (look at my profile). Do you really think I would lie to any of you? I'd have nothing to gain (and evidence to back me up if you want it). Seriously it's mega cheap. A bottle of carlson's 25,000 IU vitamin A (from cod liver oil - 250 softgels) is like $15...that's a 2 month supply. A bottle of carlson's 2,000 IU vitamin D (from cholecalciferol - 360 softgels) is about $11. That's a 2.5 month supply if you take 100,000 IU and 10,000 IU of vitamin A and D respectively. A grand total of $13/month (minus shipping)!!!!



I'm not trying to promote the carlson's brand, I gave reasons why I prefer it. Any other brand would work too. My local safeway sells 100 of 1000 IU vitamin D3 tablets for $2!!!!



If you're not into supplements you can always take cod liver oil (like 2 tablespoons) and liverwurst and get some sun during 10AM to 3PM for 40 minutes. It's not too hard to get 100,000 IU of vitamin A through diet. You can be creative and make fried rice from liverwurst (it's really tasty). It'll kind of look like dirty rice, but eh.



Lastly, consume mostly saturated fat. It helps your body use vitamin D and omega 3 fatty acids. Avoid vegetable oils at all cost! A slip up here and there won't hurt, but don't make them part of your regimen...it'll only slow your progress.



Any questions, please post them here...I want everyone to see the answers to the questions.

 

[Scenes]

@Lucenzo01

So you think it’s predominantly the vitamin A causing all the benefits you listed in the original post?

 

[theLaw]

@Lucenzo01

Unfortunately, Vit A can be a double-edged sword when it comes to acne, but if you can get the dose right, it's pretty effective. Glad to see your great progress!!!

Also, about the Cod Liver Oil (that second link = Yikes!!!):

Cod liver oil- extremely toxic, Ray Peat was right

"Between the first and second world wars, cod liver oil...."

With regards to acne, I found that Zinc basically destroyed it in a week (oysters daily would probably be better if someone took them with coffee). I even mentioned to Haidut that he should put together a mineral sup specifically as an acne treatment because it's so effective.

Cheers!

 

[Lucenzo01]

@Lucenzo01

So you think it’s predominantly the vitamin A causing all the benefits you listed in the original post?

No, I would not say that. The 4 fat-solubles work together and prevent each other toxicity. But when you take the 4 you can take and enjoy the benefits of "enormous" doses of A. They seem enormous because people is already deficient in D, K2 and E. But I would say that increasing the ratio toward A have been definitely key in mi improvement.

 

[Lucenzo01]

@Lucenzo01

Unfortunately, Vit A can be a double-edged sword when it comes to acne, but if you can get the dose right, it's pretty effective. Glad to see your great progress!!!

Also, about the Cod Liver Oil (that second link = Yikes!!!):

Cod liver oil- extremely toxic, Ray Peat was right

"Between the first and second world wars, cod liver oil...."

With regards to acne, I found that Zinc basically destroyed it in a week (oysters daily would probably be better if someone took them with coffee). I even mentioned to Haidut that he should put together a mineral sup specifically as an acne treatment because it's so effective.

Cheers!

Thanks, @theLaw . I think the toxicity of higher doses of vitamin A are really deficiencies in the rest of the fat-solubles. Just my hypothesis. I could be wrong but I have increased my vitamin D to 30.000 IU's daily with no secondary effects proving at least in my case that my body is confortable with huge doses of the fat-solubles if I take them all daily. I like to call it my personal, super Estroban.

 

[Scenes]

No, I would not say that. The 4 fat-solubles work together and prevent each other toxicity. But when you take the 4 you can take and enjoy the benefits of "enormous" doses of A. They seem enormous because people is already deficient in D, K2 and E. But I would say that increasing the ratio toward A have been definitely key in mi improvement.

Can you provide some more detail on dosing?

People on peat forums have done mega dosing of fat sols before as I understand it.

1) Is it sustainable or is it a short term boost?

2) Has it led to any increased hair loss if that’s an issue at all?

3) What do you believe the fat sols are doing specifically? I know they decrease estrogen but that doesn’t necessarily mean increased androgens.