Is Eating 4 Eggs A Day Too Much?

[Mary Pruter]

@Dobbler
@lisaferraro
@Tenacity
@Kate

I think this PUFA avoidance obsession is distracting too much from the real problems. With a hormonal imbalance, like excessive estrogen, it seems even saturated fats can become unsaturated in the body. And if your metabolism and hormonal balance is good, the PUFAs will be metabolized and kept away from the mitochondria. While PUFA may be slightly "estrogenic" in themselves, they are much less estrogenic than, say, eating a small slice of unripe fruit

If the overall diet isn't very high in fat, the discussion of keeping PUFA under a certain number of grams per day isn't useful at all, and doesn't really make a noticeable difference in health. In my opinion.

The real question about the eggs is: won't that many eggs stimulate too much insulin? Insulin in excess can be estrogenic, regardless of PUFA

I'm always so tired now.

 

[Theta]

I eat this much occasionally and mix with butter, sautéed mushrooms and/green bell pepper, and drink an 8ounce glass of fresh OJ and have NEVER had a problem.

Ray says he needs lots of OJ with eggs. Again to my point above: depends, what is starting point? How is health of liver? How are the combined? Etc.

Why is a lot of OJ required when eating eggs?

 

[lollipop]

Why is a lot of OJ required when eating eggs?

I vaguely recall Ray said he noticed the dropped blood sugar. Don't quote me - lol. What I DO remember is he drinks OJ with his eggs. I tied it and seems to work great.

 

[Mary Pruter]

I vaguely recall Ray said he noticed the dropped blood sugar. Don't quote me - lol. What I DO remember is he drinks OJ with his eggs. I tied it and seems to work great.

Would grapefruit juice be okay as well?

 

[DaveFoster]

Would grapefruit juice be okay as well?

The effect of grapefruit intake on endogenous serum estrogen levels in postmenopausal women. - PubMed - NCBI

"Although grapefruit intake leads to elevated serum estrogen levels when hormones are taken orally, there are no published data on the effect on endogenous levels. We conducted a pilot dietary intervention study among healthy postmenopausal volunteers to test whole grapefruit, 2 juices, and 1 grapefruit soda. Fifty-nine participants were recruited through the Love/Avon Army of Women. The study consisted of a 3-wk run-in, 2 wk of grapefruit intake, and a 1-wk wash-out. Eight fasting blood samples were collected. An additional 5 samples drawn at 1, 2, 4, 8, and 10 hr after grapefruit intake were collected during an acute-phase study for 10 women. Serum assays for estrone (E1), estradiol (E2), estrone-3-sulfate (E1S), dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, and sex hormone-binding globulin were conducted. Whole grapefruit intake had significant effects on endogenous E1S. Peak effects were seen at 8 hr, increasing by 26% from baseline. No changes in mean E1 or E2 with whole fruit intake were observed. In contrast, fresh juice, bottled juice, and soda intake all had significant lowering effects on E2. The findings suggest an important interaction between grapefruit intake and endogenous estrogen levels. Because endogenous estrogen levels are associated with breast cancer risk, further research is warranted."

 

[Mary Pruter]

The effect of grapefruit intake on endogenous serum estrogen levels in postmenopausal women. - PubMed - NCBI

"Although grapefruit intake leads to elevated serum estrogen levels when hormones are taken orally, there are no published data on the effect on endogenous levels. We conducted a pilot dietary intervention study among healthy postmenopausal volunteers to test whole grapefruit, 2 juices, and 1 grapefruit soda. Fifty-nine participants were recruited through the Love/Avon Army of Women. The study consisted of a 3-wk run-in, 2 wk of grapefruit intake, and a 1-wk wash-out. Eight fasting blood samples were collected. An additional 5 samples drawn at 1, 2, 4, 8, and 10 hr after grapefruit intake were collected during an acute-phase study for 10 women. Serum assays for estrone (E1), estradiol (E2), estrone-3-sulfate (E1S), dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, and sex hormone-binding globulin were conducted. Whole grapefruit intake had significant effects on endogenous E1S. Peak effects were seen at 8 hr, increasing by 26% from baseline. No changes in mean E1 or E2 with whole fruit intake were observed. In contrast, fresh juice, bottled juice, and soda intake all had significant lowering effects on E2. The findings suggest an important interaction between grapefruit intake and endogenous estrogen levels. Because endogenous estrogen levels are associated with breast cancer risk, further research is warranted."

Oh boy!

 

[nerfherder]

I suppose just like chickens if the commercial quail farmer is feeding the quail the wrong food (i.e. high PUFA grains and soy with pesticides, fungicides, herbicides) the eggs will be negatively affected.

Chickens get fed cereals. Even pastured chickens get fed cereals.

 

[Dave Clark]

Chickens get fed cereals. Even pastured chickens get fed cereals.

I know that, that is why I made the point. Question is: do the quail farmers feed grains that are non-organic and heavy with soy and other omega-6 fatty acids. Commercial feed is high in arsenic, as well as glyphosate and other pesticides. Plus, does the quail farmer use antibiotics, etc. The same standards should apply to a quail farmer as a chicken farmer if one is conscience of the quality of meat he or she is consuming.

 

[nerfherder]

do the quail farmers feed grains that are non-organic and heavy with soy and other omega-6 fatty acids

I don't see how being organic changes anything wrt soy and w-6. Soy is used in poultry feeds as a source of protein for growing birds. There are other sources that usually do not work as well (e.g. field peas). You'll find soy in organic poultry feed too.

Cereals will raise w-6 fatty acids, organic or not. Putting birds on pasture makes things better, but they are still cereal eaters. Can you find a farmer that raises birds to your standard? There are some out there that use custom feeds without soy but the more rarefied your demands the harder they will be to find. I don't know much about quail (except for eating them) but I doubt there are many pastured quail farmers feeding non-soy organic feed. I think I know one, but I don't know the details of his feed.

I'm not that fussed over organic standards for chicken feed. The chickens themselves do a lot of filtering of bad stuff. I'm more worried about access to pasture and soy, but even then eating a soy-fed bird won't have the impact of eating a lot of soy yourself.

 

[Dave Clark]

I don't see how being organic changes anything wrt soy and w-6. Soy is used in poultry feeds as a source of protein for growing birds. There are other sources that usually do not work as well (e.g. field peas). You'll find soy in organic poultry feed too.

Cereals will raise w-6 fatty acids, organic or not. Putting birds on pasture makes things better, but they are still cereal eaters. Can you find a farmer that raises birds to your standard? There are some out there that use custom feeds without soy but the more rarefied your demands the harder they will be to find. I don't know much about quail (except for eating them) but I doubt there are many pastured quail farmers feeding non-soy organic feed. I think I know one, but I don't know the details of his feed.

I'm not that fussed over organic standards for chicken feed. The chickens themselves do a lot of filtering of bad stuff. I'm more worried about access to pasture and soy, but even then eating a soy-fed bird won't have the impact of eating a lot of soy yourself.

I agree with much of what you say, but organic will not have the chemicals in the food which transfer to the meat of the bird, and ultimately to you. A perfect of example of this is the arsenic problem that commercial chickens have in their meat, due to their feed being high in arsenic via pesticides, etc. Arsenic is only one of the many chemical poisons found in commercial feed and then the commercial poultry that you consume. Not to beleager the subject, but scientific studies via blood tests have proven that consuming organic food as opposed to commercial, non-organic food results in elimination of class one carcinogens in the blood. Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[sladerunner69]

Personally I wouldn't eat more than 2 per day, because of the PUFA to be on the safe side. Organic pasture raised eggs could do 3 or maybe 4. I notice the pufa when I eat eggs, it slows my metabolism down a little bit, and I feel a bit more groggy. And the total daily at intake is what to watch out for, you are already eating a large amount of fat through the day but it is from coconut oil and dairy then I suppose you are keeping a good ratio.

 

[nerfherder]

their feed being high in arsenic via pesticides

First thanks for mentioning the arsenic, I had to look it up and it was well worth the read.

I knew the US was big on antibiotics for promoting pig and chicken growth (and maybe feedlot cattle but I don't know the US cattle system well enough). I didn't know about arsenic in particular until I went looking today.

It seems like there was a range of arsenic-based drugs the US used to promote pig and chicken growth. These affected arsenic content of chicken meat as per this 2013 study. Also referred to by this 2013 HuffPo article.

Looks like the companies backed off selling them and the last of these arsenic-based drugs was banned for food production by the FDA in December 2015.

So I'd guess that arsenic is not the issue it was a couple of years ago. Good to know.

 

[Dave Clark]

First thanks for mentioning the arsenic, I had to look it up and it was well worth the read.

I knew the US was big on antibiotics for promoting pig and chicken growth (and maybe feedlot cattle but I don't know the US cattle system well enough). I didn't know about arsenic in particular until I went looking today.

It seems like there was a range of arsenic-based drugs the US used to promote pig and chicken growth. These affected arsenic content of chicken meat as per this 2013 study. Also referred to by this 2013 HuffPo article.

Looks like the companies backed off selling them and the last of these arsenic-based drugs was banned for food production by the FDA in December 2015.

So I'd guess that arsenic is not the issue it was a couple of years ago. Good to know.

Hopefully you are right about the arsenic in the chickens, now if we could only get arsenic out of the rice crop!

 

[fradon]

4 eggs a day too much from PUFA standpoint? Im balancing them with 30g of coconut oil at same meal. Total daily PUFA intake is between 4-5g, and SAFA intake is between 70-90g.

What u guys think?

eggs have high AA...a lot of AA can lead to inflammation. i developed a choline intolerance eating that many eggs. Now i get hives from eating egg yolks.